Zone1 For the Love of God...

[notmyfault2020]

Well… he hates the Catholic Church as much as you do.

Being Catholic will not save you if you engage in persistent lying..

 

[notmyfault2020]

I am Christian, baptised Anglican. I wasn't always religious growing up but ironically a Muslim co-worker keep talking to me about God and miracles of the universe etc. His comment to me that all three major religions believed in Jesus, but it was a matter of what role they viewed him in.

That statement just floored me and I had to learn more. So I reread the New Testament and listened to an audio book of the Old Testament, listened to Ravi Zacharias the most, he really inspired me to go forward in believing in Jesus, his testimonies are superb.

Remember, people of all Faiths have paid for their lives for their beliefs, they used to light Christian on fire while live and use them to light the streets, hanging lamposts. Just awful.

If you ever study Catholicism (and since it's the Church Christ founded, everyone should..) remember that the Vatican was taken over by anti-Christs in the 60s and they have kept their fake popes (non-Catholic popes) there ever since. That sect (now called the Francis sect by Sedevacantists) began teaching that all religions save and we shouldn't try to convert anyone to Christ.

If that sounds like true doctrine to you... I don't know what to say...

 

[ding]

Being Catholic will not save you if you engage in persistent lying..

Right back at ya, fella.

 

[The Duke]

Do you know how much of my day is spent focused on Pope Francis? The same as for any other Pope. Zilch. The Pope's duty is to run the Church by being a servant to the servants of Christ. My focus--and the focus of most other Catholics--is on Christ and on their local parish.

It's Christ's church, not the pope's or Catholics. O law', ding gonna hate that.

 

[onefour1]

Our religious faith/denomination--or even lack thereof--is sacred to each of us and is the holy ground in each of our lives. It is our love for God.

Some turn away from religion/faith because they cannot reconcile their own understanding of the Bible with the holiness of God. They prefer no belief to a belief that God destroys.

Those of us who choose to practice a religion do so because it draws us to the holiness of God and into His love.

The thesis for this thread: We can, through our love of God, talk about our own beliefs/religion without trampling on the religion/faith/beliefs with respect and with care for the beliefs of others.

I am Catholic, and I credit the Catholic Church (and Little Golden Books) for dropping me at the feet of the Almighty God. I can also respect that others may have had the same experience as a Jew, Muslim, or any one of the other thousands of Christian denomination.

The last way I introduce Jesus to Jew or Muslim would be my belief of his Oneness with God when Jesus best introduces himself through his teachings of how to relate to the Father and to one another--via the Beatitudes for example, or through his life as a Jew.

Jews can introduce Isaiah and other prophets without tearing into Christians on their interpretation and fusion with what these prophets said to those of the Jewish faith.


I love God and believe God loves each of us. What is your story? What do you like best about your denomination and what do you value sharing?

As many already know, I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. There are so many teachings and revelations in the church that I love and would like to share even though I know many will take them with a grain of salt and discard them. In this post I will share one that I learned while in college while taking a philosophy of religion course. The instructor of the course while speaking of God brought up the idea that if God is all powerful, all knowing, and an all benevolent God, then why didn't He simply create us all to be perfect like himself? Why put us through a life filled with evil and pain and suffering and eventually death, when he could simply have created us with all knowledge and understanding and immortality and love just as He himself has? If he is all powerful, all knowing and all loving, surely he had the power to do so and surely he had the knowledge of how to do it, and as a loving being, surely he would have spared us all the suffering, pain, and death of this world and simply made us perfect like himself. This was the presentation that I needed an answer to from God that my philosophy of religion instructor presented.

My answer came through studying the revelations given through the prophet Joseph Smith. Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints do not believe that God creates out of nothing but that he uses things that are eternal in nature to create things. God is the supreme creator or organizer of things that eternally exist. After pondering and studying the question delivered to me by my philosophy instructor, here are two verses that gave me answer to the instructor's question of why God could simply have created us to be perfect like himself.

Doctrine and Covenants 93:29, 33
29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.

33 For man is spirit. The elements are eternal, and spirit and element, inseparably connected, receive a fulness of joy;

According to church doctrine, there is a part of man, the intelligent part of man, that was never created or made and neither indeed can be. In other words, there is a part of us that is self-existent and has always existed. That part of us is called an intelligence or sometimes referred to as spirit. Also matter itself is eternal and has always existed. Basically we believe that God took certain intelligences that were highly advanced and through the process of procreation combined those intelligences with spirit matter to form the spirit children of God. Later these spirit children were sent down to earth to receive an even greater physical body made of a more coarse matter. So, if our core intelligence is self-existent and could never be created or made, then it follows that God could never create it and thus he could never created it to be perfect. For this reason God resorts to giving us free will and allows us to experience good and evil to learn to become better beings through choosing good over evil. One must choose of his own free will and choice to truly be a good being. He also combines our core intelligence with elements because, as verse 33 tells us, when our intelligence or being is eternally combined with elements we can receive a fulness of joy. Thus the resurrection of our bodies to an immortal state of being.

So this gave me answer from the revelations of God as to why the philosophy of religions teachers question has an answer. I truly believe that we are eternal beings.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

You are not following Him. You are following the fallen, highjacked church (the Vatican) that once belonged to Him

Both are. Someday you'll understand that. Until then, Simon Magus is laughing

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints do not believe that God creates out of nothing but that he uses things that are eternal in nature to create things

So you believe God is less than the physical creation

Nothing about our realm is "eternal " It is ALL God's creation

 

[Meriweather]

It's Christ's church, not the pope's or Catholics.

chURch. "You Are" the church.

We are the Body of Christ. That is how we see ourselves. We don't kick out or denigrate someone just because he happens to be Pope. Non-Catholics seem to pay more attention to the pope than do Catholics. He is simply one of us--a member of the Body of Christ, but of special service to clergy.

 

[Meriweather]

The instructor of the course while speaking of God brought up the idea that if God is all powerful, all knowing, and an all benevolent God, then why didn't He simply create us all to be perfect like himself? Why put us through a life filled with evil and pain and suffering and eventually death, when he could simply have created us with all knowledge and understanding and immortality and love just as He himself has? If he is all powerful, all knowing and all loving, surely he had the power to do so and surely he had the knowledge of how to do it, and as a loving being, surely he would have spared us all the suffering, pain, and death of this world and simply made us perfect like himself. This was the presentation that I needed an answer to from God that my philosophy of religion instructor presented.

For me, the best answer came from studying Genesis from the Jewish perspective. Their insights make sense as well.

1. God made the earth good--not perfect.
2. God brings good out of evil.
3. Mankind wanted to be like God. They wanted knowledge, and they wanted to know both good and evil.
4. The tree of the knowledge of good and evil was in the center of the garden, showing its importance. It was not put there as a temptation.
5. The reason God forbade them to eat of the tree was because its fruit was not yet ripe. Eve and Adam jumped the gun and ate the fruit before it was ready, with the reported results.
6. God was in their midst then, and has remained in our midst throughout the ages. While we may have some knowledge of good and evil, we do not yet have full knowledge of good and evil. But we are learning.

 

[Meriweather]

According to church doctrine, there is a part of man, the intelligent part of man, that was never created or made and neither indeed can be. In other words, there is a part of us that is self-existent and has always existed. That part of us is called an intelligence or sometimes referred to as spirit. Also matter itself is eternal and has always existed. Basically we believe that God took certain intelligences that were highly advanced and through the process of procreation combined those intelligences with spirit matter to form the spirit children of God. Later these spirit children were sent down to earth to receive an even greater physical body made of a more coarse matter.

I understand...faith based on logic and reasoning. It still stands that that it is all shrouded in mystery and supposition.

Genesis says God made man out of the clay of the earth and breathed life (spirit/intelligence) into the first man. I see the power of God in this, so much power, that life and intelligence flowed from God to the first man to all his descendants.

While again it is supposition wrapped in a mystery, our spirits may have been birthed here along with our bodies. I am equally divided between the two possibilities. Mystery. I don't know which is the reality.

 

[Meriweather]

Until then, Simon Magus is laughing

Doubtful. He was dismissed by Peter (and therefore the Church) about two thousand years ago. Most never heard of him, while all have heard of Peter. Simon Magus was Gnostic, but I know little of Gnosticism then, and even less about today's Gnosticism, so I don't know if Simon's views are still being supported. Simon had a talent for magic acts and sorcery, but little spirituality. He chose attention to self over service to others.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

. It was not put there as a temptation.
5. The reason God forbade them to eat of the tree was because its fruit was not yet ripe. Eve and Adam jumped the gun and ate the fruit before it was ready, with the reported results

Where do you find this in SCRIPTURE

 

[LibertyKid]

Our religious faith/denomination--or even lack thereof--is sacred to each of us and is the holy ground in each of our lives. It is our love for God.

Some turn away from religion/faith because they cannot reconcile their own understanding of the Bible with the holiness of God.

And this is probably my biggest concern with the RCC influenced Christianity that has spilled over into the majority of all "Christian" faiths.
Christianity does not require "the Bible" to be reconciled with anything.
Consider that Jesus never required a belief in anything other than himself and that he was the Messiah and the propitiation for mankind. That's it. The first century church believed by "Hearing" not reading. The first century church didn't have a Bible, they had the pentateuch because they were Jews and spent time reconciling the Pentateuch to Christ.
When Paul came, the gentiles didn't need the Pentateuch. All they had were the teachings of Paul and his understanding of Christ as the Messiah. They believed by hearing and Paul's sharing of his letters.

Today, one must believe in the Bible according to Christianity? It's practically a form of bibliolatry and idolatry. I'm not saying that the Bible can't be used to know and learn about Christ and the teachings of his immediate followers. But I will not adhere to something that was never referenced or ascribed as didactic if it wasn't stated by Christ.

 

[Meriweather]

Where do you find this in SCRIPTURE

I don't. As noted my points came from studying Rabbi commentary and Jewish traditions as they relate to Genesis. I noted in another thread where some Orthodox Jews still follow the tradition of not eating the fruit that a young tree first produces in remembrance of eating too soon of the fruit of knowledge.

Did you notice that onefour1 was explaining Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints doctrines that came from outside the Bible? I am certain he also read Genesis, but produced information taught by their Church through Joseph Smith.

Jews have additional scrolls/books they study. As you know, Catholics also observe Apostolic tradition.

Many non-Catholic Christians reside within the boundaries of scripture, only, or think they do. The various non-Catholic Christians have their own perspectives/interpretations of scripture that are based on the founder's thoughts of their particular denomination. This is expounding on scripture is interesting and quite often instructive. We always have the bare bones of scripture as our foundation, and that is where the most study occurs--as it should.

 

[LibertyKid]

Where do you find this in SCRIPTURE

He said he was giving the "Jewish" perspective. It's how they have interpreted and understood what Moses wrote. Where the inspiration for the knowledge came from would be interesting.

 

[Meriweather]

Consider that Jesus never required a belief in anything other than himself and that he was the Messiah and the propitiation for mankind.

Perhaps overlooked is the constant refrain of Jesus in the Gospels: Sins are forgiven. Also, obedience to God, which he took to heart so much it ended with his crucifixion. "Discern the will of God and follow it" was proclaimed as well.

Jesus constantly said he was not the Messiah (or anointed one) the Jews were expecting, and expectation that started after the reign of King David. He was 'anointed' by God for a different mission which he stated dated back to Moses.

 

[Meriweather]

The first century church believed by "Hearing" not reading. The first century church didn't have a Bible, they had the pentateuch because they were Jews and spent time reconciling the Pentateuch to Christ.

The Apostles followed Jesus' example. He spent time speaking to the people, Reading was not all that common among the poor in Jesus' and the Apostles' time. We still stand to hear the Gospel readings (although some do follow along in their books).

 

[LibertyKid]

The Apostles followed Jesus' example. He spent time speaking to the people, Reading was not all that common among the poor in Jesus' and the Apostles' time. We still stand to hear the Gospel readings (although some do follow along in their books).

But, but, to address my first point, Christians are not required to reconcile any written document with their faith, God, Christ, etc., Agree or disagree?

 

[onefour1]

So you believe God is less than the physical creation

Nothing about our realm is "eternal " It is ALL God's creation

On the contrary, I believe that God himself has an immortal body of flesh and bones just a Jesus has and all of us will receive. Our realm does go through a temporary death, but this earth and all those on it will be immortalized and become eternal eventually.

 

[ding]

On the contrary, I believe that God himself has an immortal body of flesh and bones just a Jesus has and all of us will receive. Our realm does go through a temporary death, but this earth and all those on it will be immortalized and become eternal eventually.

Why do you believe God has an immortal body of flesh and bones?