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For all of you running to support Alec Baldwin, listen to this

rightwinger

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And the DA said:
“We haven’t ruled out anything,” the district attorney, Mary Carmack-Altwies, said in a telephone interview. “Everything at this point, including criminal charges, is on the table.”
Probably true
I see charges of negligent homicide or manslaughter coming

Seems the crew had a habit of taking the prop guns and bringing their own ammo to shoot shit during breaks

The arms master and assistant director probably checked them earlier in the day and didn’t realize they were being used with live ammo

They are subject to criminal charges as well as whoever used prop guns to shoot live rounds

<as much as ConservatIves hate him, Baldwin will not be charged>
 

Lesh

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Probably true
I see charges of negligent homicide or manslaughter coming

Seems the crew had a habit of taking the prop guns and bringing their own ammo to shoot shit during breaks

The arms master and assistant director probably checked them earlier in the day and didn’t realize they were being used with live ammo

They are subject to criminal charges as well as whoever used prop guns to shoot live rounds

<as much as ConservatIves hate him, Baldwin will not be charged>
Again...the armorer should have had them locked away but didn't.

SHE is in deep shit. Possibly the people who hired her (which may include Baldwin...but not likely)
 

M14 Shooter

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SHE is in deep shit.
So is Baldwin, as negligient homicide - involuntary manslaughter - is a felony in NM.
 

rightwinger

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Again...the armorer should have had them locked away but didn't.

SHE is in deep shit. Possibly the people who hired her (which may include Baldwin...but not likely)
I can’t imagine why she would allow anyone to touch a gun used in the film, let alone put live rounds in it
 

rightwinger

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So is Baldwin, as negligient homicide - involuntary manslaughter - is a felony in NM.
You are in dreamland
But then again, you probably still think they will lock up Hillary
 

SavannahMann

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This is a lie.
The SAG rules clearly state that everyone - including the actors - is responsible for safety especially with firearms.
Nowhere in the SAG rules does it state the actor, as a matter of procedure, is not supposed to check the gun.

What do you do someone tells you a gun is cold and hands it to you?
1: Check the gun
2: Point it at someone and pull the trigger

Ok. Let’s play this game. You are an actor preparing for a scene. You are given a weapon with what you are told is Dummy Rounds. The weapon is prepared for the shot. You drop the magazine and cycle the slide. The dummy round is ejected. The armorer takes the weapon and again prepares it for the scene. He hands the weapon to you and says the weapon is cold. You drop the magazine and cycle the slide. This happens five times in a row.

The director fires you.

For you the focus is safety. For the director the focus is getting the shot. For the crew it is getting the job done.

Take any movie. Hell take John Wick. They had to rehearse those scenes dozens of times. With Reeves loading a magazine of blanks cycling the slide and then shooting the baddie.

Do you think he emptied every magazine to check if there was a live round before reloading?

I saw a news program one time. They were trying to show that a civilian armed was not a good idea.

They had the police arm the man. But since he might realize the rounds were blanks the cop put the weapon already holstered on the guys hip. The guy went to class. The scenario played out without the guys knowledge and he didn’t reach for the gun until it was all over.

He was specifically instructed to leave the weapon in the holster. He was told not to check it by a cop.

And this was a guy who knew about guns and knew how to shoot.

That was supposedly a real life scenario.

I posted a link to a story from Fort Bragg where a magazine of blanks was in fact live rounds.
 

Rigby5

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IMHO, the one who pulls the trigger is responsible for the result. Whether the case here rises to the charge of negligent homicide or not, I don't know. It is totally unbelievable that a person in that situation where he knows he's going to point a gun at someone and pull the trigger, that he does not check first to make sure there's no bullet in the chamber. And on top of that, why does he point the gun at the cameraperson anyway? Could he not point the gun away from her?

Baldwin is not at fault.
He is an actor, so is being forced to handle a gun without being trained, and that is the fault of the armorer.
As far as pointing the gun, again that is the fault of the director telling him to point his quick draw sequence towards the camera, which then happens to to towards the camera operator.

The fault is with the staff who brought live ammo onto the set, and used the gun for "plinking", forgetting to remove the live rounds.
 

Rigby5

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Ok. Let’s play this game. You are an actor preparing for a scene. You are given a weapon with what you are told is Dummy Rounds. The weapon is prepared for the shot. You drop the magazine and cycle the slide. The dummy round is ejected. The armorer takes the weapon and again prepares it for the scene. He hands the weapon to you and says the weapon is cold. You drop the magazine and cycle the slide. This happens five times in a row.

The director fires you.

For you the focus is safety. For the director the focus is getting the shot. For the crew it is getting the job done.

Take any movie. Hell take John Wick. They had to rehearse those scenes dozens of times. With Reeves loading a magazine of blanks cycling the slide and then shooting the baddie.

Do you think he emptied every magazine to check if there was a live round before reloading?

I saw a news program one time. They were trying to show that a civilian armed was not a good idea.

They had the police arm the man. But since he might realize the rounds were blanks the cop put the weapon already holstered on the guys hip. The guy went to class. The scenario played out without the guys knowledge and he didn’t reach for the gun until it was all over.

He was specifically instructed to leave the weapon in the holster. He was told not to check it by a cop.

And this was a guy who knew about guns and knew how to shoot.

That was supposedly a real life scenario.

I posted a link to a story from Fort Bragg where a magazine of blanks was in fact live rounds.

No, the armorer does not take the gun back and reloads it after the actor ejected the one in the chamber.
What the armorer is supposed to do is teach all the actors to check their weapons.
It is impossible for one person to keep track of all the possible weapons.
The best way is for the armorer to just train the actors so they do it, since they are always the last person to handle it.
No one else ever really can do it except the last person to handle it.

Mistakes will always happens, so the solution is the greatest number or checks possible, which means everyone checks.
 

Rigby5

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IMHO, the one who pulls the trigger is responsible for the result. Whether the case here rises to the charge of negligent homicide or not, I don't know. It is totally unbelievable that a person in that situation where he knows he's going to point a gun at someone and pull the trigger, that he does not check first to make sure there's no bullet in the chamber. And on top of that, why does he point the gun at the cameraperson anyway? Could he not point the gun away from her?

The person who buys and owns the gun is the one responsible.
An actor does not have to know anything about guns.
They have to memorize lines, actions, etc.
And it is the director who tells the actor where to point the gun.

The accident would not have happened if staff had not violated procedure by bringing live ammo, plinking, and not unloading.
 

M14 Shooter

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Ok. Let’s play this game. You are an actor preparing for a scene. You are given a weapon with what you are told is Dummy Rounds. The weapon is prepared for the shot. You drop the magazine and cycle the slide
Revolver.
And the weapon was declared "cold", so there's no setup to reset.
 

Lesh

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The accident would not have happened if staff had not violated procedure by bringing live ammo, plinking, and not unloading.
Sorta right. No live ammo for a prop gun should be anywhere on set (the exception being security which does not apply here).

BUT...prop guns should be locked away and tightly controlled. There should not have been a possibility for them to be used for plinking
 

M14 Shooter

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Baldwin is not at fault.
He is an actor, so is being forced to handle a gun without being trained, ...
-Option- to handle the handgun.
Training and safety briefs are -mandatory- before anyone handles a gun.
The actor has the -responsibility- to double check the safety of the set-up.
So says the SAG rules, anyway.

And if the SAG rules are not followed, then the cast and were negligent.

1635298630835.png
 

Rigby5

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-Option- to handle the handgun.
Training and safety briefs are -mandatory- before anyone handles a gun.
The actor has the -responsibility- to double check the safety of the set-up.
So says the SAG rules, anyway.

And if the SAG rules are not followed, then the cast and were negligent.

View attachment 556798

SAG rules are NOT the responsibility of the actors.
Actors are not paid or have time to read the SAG rules.
SAG rules are the responsibility of the director, who is supposed to have read the rules.
 

Lesh

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SAG rules are NOT the responsibility of the actors.
Actors are not paid or have time to read the SAG rules.
SAG rules are the responsibility of the director, who is supposed to have read the rules.
Irrelevant

NO live rounds should have been allowed on site.

No guns should have been available for the crew to play with
 

Lesh

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Irrelevant

NO live rounds should have been allowed on site.

No guns should have been available for the crew to play with
AND guns should have been checked by the (inexperienced 24 year old) armorer and the assistant director should never have handed a loaded gun to an actor without checking it and then yelling "COLD GUN"
 

airplanemechanic

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IMHO, the one who pulls the trigger is responsible for the result. Whether the case here rises to the charge of negligent homicide or not, I don't know. It is totally unbelievable that a person in that situation where he knows he's going to point a gun at someone and pull the trigger, that he does not check first to make sure there's no bullet in the chamber. And on top of that, why does he point the gun at the cameraperson anyway? Could he not point the gun away from her?

Dude, its EXACTLY negligent homicide.

That means that through your negligence someone got killed. That is EXACTLY what happened. That charge would be perfect.
 

Lesh

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Hand guns aren't exactly quiet. If the crew was playing with them during breaks...everyone knew it.

That hadda be one fucked up movie set. No wonder crew walked off the set
 

Markle

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Baldwin is not at fault.
He is an actor, so is being forced to handle a gun without being trained, and that is the fault of the armorer.
As far as pointing the gun, again that is the fault of the director telling him to point his quick draw sequence towards the camera, which then happens to to towards the camera operator.

The fault is with the staff who brought live ammo onto the set, and used the gun for "plinking", forgetting to remove the live rounds.
Oh stop it, just stop it. By now, you know as well as anyone that the producer, in this case, Alec Baldwin, is where the buck stops. He is responsible for everything. He allowed the chaos to exist. No one else and he pulled the trigger.

What is not clear enough for you?
 

Lesh

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Oh stop it, just stop it. By now, you know as well as anyone that the producer, in this case, Alec Baldwin, is where the buck stops. He is responsible for everything. He allowed the chaos to exist. No one else and he pulled the trigger.

What is not clear enough for you?
As producer he bears responsibility (along with others) probably in a civil action.
 

DudleySmith

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Hollywood studio procedures don't supercede New Mexico law. The only rules that apply are those legislated by the state. In this case someone pointed a gun at a person, pulled the trigger, the target died. No amount of fawning over movie stars changes that. There is a decent chance that some gutless prosecutor will ignore the law in this case, but they better hope they didn't in any other cases. Allowing movie actors to kill with impunity isn't really a good message to send.
Well, since we're going to do Theatre of The Absurd now, can't we at least get Alcie Copper to make a video?
 

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