Flying Tigers

[william the wie]

The mother of a US Army vet friend of mine is Japanese and she was taught that Japan treated the Flying Tigers deployment to Burma as preparation to a US sneak attack on the Japanese forces within China was the reason for Pearl Harbor. Given the nearly non-existent security involved in the deployment of 100 pilots, 200 ground crew, instructors and logistics train this is certainly plausible but is it true?

 

[westwall]

The mother of a US Army vet friend of mine is Japanese and she was taught that Japan treated the Flying Tigers deployment to Burma as preparation to a US sneak attack on the Japanese forces within China was the reason for Pearl Harbor. Given the nearly non-existent security involved in the deployment of 100 pilots, 200 ground crew, instructors and logistics train this is certainly plausible but is it true?

No, not really. There were several American Naval personnel who predicted the attack, Lord Mountbatten likewise did the same, and this was years before the attack.


"Ellis Zacharias sipped on his dry martini as he matched poker skills with a group that included a young naval attaché with the Japanese embassy.

Zacharias, a naval intelligence officer posted in Washington in the 1920s, was not only playing poker but also trying to get the espionage-minded Japanese officer to let slip some information about his country's plans in the Pacific. He restricted himself to just the one martini in order to maintain his edge. This probing for information was a mutual exercise, usually involving shrewd questioning by both men as they played each hand.

Revealing only enough information to keep the conversation going, Zacharias could absorb what he heard over time while maintaining his friendship with the young Japanese officer, who had a reputation as a gambler.

Some years later, Zacharias would use information gathered this way to warn his superiors that Japan, by then on the march across the Pacific Rim, would launch a surprise attack on the United States in the Pacific—on a Sunday morning.

The Navy ignored his warnings. But early on December 7, 1941—a Sunday morning—Japan suddenly attacked Pearl Harbor, Hawaii. It was an operation planned by Zacharias's old poker-playing partner, Isoroku Yamamoto, by then commander in chief of the Japanese fleet."

Sage Prophet or Loose Canon?

 

[there4eyeM]

An attack on the massive, prepared Japanese forces with just one hundred, logistically precarious planes? Hard to take seriously that the High Command in Japan would feel greatly threatened.
It was the oil embargo that tipped the scales.
As for the actual Pearl Harbor attack, it could only have been a surprise to the incompetent or unconscious.

 

[william the wie]

An attack on the massive, prepared Japanese forces with just one hundred, logistically precarious planes? Hard to take seriously that the High Command in Japan would feel greatly threatened.
It was the oil embargo that tipped the scales.
As for the actual Pearl Harbor attack, it could only have been a surprise to the incompetent or unconscious.

I tend towards your interpretation of the data but why this stupid stunt instead of making Midway and the Philippines the most heavily defended areas on the planet. The Flying Tigers were the worst kept secret possibly in US history. I'm trying to get into the mindset of negotiators in the run up to a war for my game. (see signature)

 

[there4eyeM]

There was no consistent, coherent worldwide geopolitical strategy on the part of the U.S. in the run up to WWII. The great fears were the right totalitarian régimes and the left totalitarian régimes, while faith in simple democracy looked unfounded (and was). The traditions and finances of the Federal Government were contrary to large military forces outside times of overt war, with some exceptions in Naval arms (following the British model). The American public was uninformed and apathetic. Quite rightly, they realized no enemy could traverse the seas and inflict significant damage, and they had no interest in sending large forces elsewhere.
It wasn't so much that Roosevelt wanted war, but he must have seen that getting in too late might make ultimate victory difficult and far off. Forcing Japan's militarist, fatalist, predictable hand facilitated a unification of American will. The card was played, the Japanese accommodated, and 'the rest is history'.

 

[Mushroom]

The mother of a US Army vet friend of mine is Japanese and she was taught that Japan treated the Flying Tigers deployment to Burma as preparation to a US sneak attack on the Japanese forces within China was the reason for Pearl Harbor. Given the nearly non-existent security involved in the deployment of 100 pilots, 200 ground crew, instructors and logistics train this is certainly plausible but is it true?

Not at all.

In fact, the American Volunteer Group only authorized in April 1941, and assembled in Burma in November 1941. This is actually AFTER the initial study ordered by the IJN into an attack on the US which was ordered in March 1941.

On top of that, the war in that front was actually illegal. After the Boxer Rebellion, the various nations of the 8 nation relief column basically partitioned up China, each having general control of the areas under their protection (not unlike what happened to Germany after WWII). In this, Japan was mostly given the NE part of China, up to Port Arthur (which was the southernmost area of Russian control).

But shortly afterwards, Japan started pushing outwards, culminating in the Russo-Japanese War and their real emergence on the world stage.

But the point is, that Japan had been expanding it's territory in China since 1904, and the area around Burma was actually in the British-UK sphere, not that of Japan. But Japan was portraying these incursions as their chasing "bandits" into the other territories after they conducted "attacks" in their areas. Not really unlike the punitive raids of the US into Mexico against Poncho Villa a decade earlier. So the US really did not have much they could protest about diplomatically without looking like hypocrites.

But Japan also had no right to protest the presence of the AVG, even if it was not formed until after their war plans were instigated. This was not in their sphere of influence, so they had no right to protest. Not unlike how the US-USSR could not say much about how they trained and equipped their respective allies in East and West Germany.

 

[whitehall]

The plan for the inevitable war with Japan had been updated since Woodie Wilson's wife became president after his stroke. The fuzzy parts come in the late 30's when FDR calls an old WW1 Soldier out of retirement and puts him in charge of the area most likely to be attacked at the time in history when the FDR administration was goading Japan into war. General MacArthur apparently thought that he was a social envoy to the Philippines because his front line Troops weren't prepared at all. When the shit hit the fan after Pearl Harbor MacArthur had at least a day to prepare for the Japanese enemy attack and enact "Plan Orange" which called for U.S. forces in the Philippines to launch an air offensive attack on Formosa. Apparently the Old Soldier was confused and panicked after the Pearl Harbor attack and he allowed his entire air force to be destroyed while parked wing to wing in the open on the ground. A couple of months later his entire Army surrendered to overwhelming Japanese ground troops but he was evacuated "under orders" to sunny Austrailia while he planned a grand offensive.

 

[williepete]

The mother of a US Army vet friend of mine is Japanese and she was taught that Japan treated the Flying Tigers deployment to Burma as preparation to a US sneak attack on the Japanese forces within China was the reason for Pearl Harbor.

I lived in Japan for two years in the mid 80's. I was continuously amused by the things they taught their children about the 1930's and 40's. I don't know what they're teaching now, but back then, they taught a fairy tale fantasy of Japan being pure as the driven snow while the mean old U.S., for no reason at all, nuked two of their cities. The Chinese and the Koreans were and continue to be insulted at the "Japanese version of history".

 

[Mushroom]

The fuzzy parts come in the late 30's when FDR calls an old WW1 Soldier out of retirement and puts him in charge of the area most likely to be attacked at the time in history when the FDR administration was goading Japan into war.

This is so far detached from real history, I have to wonder if you have ever even read real history.

For example, FDR had absolutely nothing to do with General MacArthur being called to service. In fact, he greatly despised him from back when he was Chief of Staff. After he retired over a budget fight (FDR wanted to cut the Army budget by over 50% in 1933), he was offered to be the Field Marshall of the Philippines by President Quezon (the General had long enjoyed good relations with the Philippine nation).

The position of "Office of the Military Advisor to the Commonwealth Government of the Philippines" was created by Congress and the War Department as a way to keep him "in the loop", and was done over the objections of FDR.

In July 1941, General MacArthur was recalled to service, because he was the head of the Philippine Army. And on that date the entire Philippine Army was called to active service as were all other Territorial military organizations in the US. He was not "picked out", and he was not really wanted. And the higher ups were hoping he would retire again immediately, as in recalling them they demoted him from General to Major General.

You really need to do more research in facts, not making up stuff as you go along. Because people who know real history will show you wrong every time.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

The mother of a US Army vet friend of mine is Japanese and she was taught that Japan treated the Flying Tigers deployment to Burma as preparation to a US sneak attack on the Japanese forces within China was the reason for Pearl Harbor. Given the nearly non-existent security involved in the deployment of 100 pilots, 200 ground crew, instructors and logistics train this is certainly plausible but is it true?

The Flying Tigers were not even active on December 7th, 1941, They saw their first combat 12 days later.

That makes it difficult to blame something that hadn't even happened yet.

 

[william the wie]

The first casualty of any war is truth. Learned that second hand from my two Great-grandfather Civil War vets. Stonewall Jackson appears to have manumitted all of his slaves shortly after the outbreak of the Civil War and Lee leaned that way. Sherman was in favor of slavery and Grant too was a slave owner. That doesn't tend to be taught in schools.