Fiscal conservatism now? Or it'll be shoved down our throats later.

[Toddsterpatriot]

adding a fractional; percent to financial instrument sales we can pay the debt and provide education and health care for all.

Awesome! Then you can show your math.

 

[kyzr]

you punish them if they move overseas,, problem solved,,

being able to afford more taxes doesn't mean it doesn't make it worse for them,, and it sure means they cant hire outside help that would increase the tax base. I don't think we are,, its gonna hurt and a lot of things will change,, but the option will destroy the lower and middle class and create a two class system,,,,

as for welfare it should be pushed to its lowest point of contact and be ran by communities with some local and state support,,

1. Agreed. But many will move out anyway.

2. Maybe you're still not getting it. People will need to get into survival mode if the dollar collapses. There will be pain, less with taxes, more if the dollar collapses.

3. I'd love to send Welfare and Medicaid back to the states. Education too.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

you punish them if they move overseas,, problem solved,,

being able to afford more taxs doesnt mean it doesnt make it worse for them,, and it sure means they cant hire outside help that would increase the tax base,,

I dont think we are,, its gonna hurt and a lot of things will change,, but the option will destroy the lower and middle class and create a two class system,,,,


as for welfare it should be pushed to its lowest point of contact and be ran by communities with some local and state support,,

you punish them if they move overseas,, problem solved,,

LOL! That's funny.

 

[kyzr]

1. It can be done. The Transaction Tax works in Europe.
Show me where it works in Europe.

2. Nope. Remove the cap, add means testing.
It's already skewed to the low-end.

3. No money no service.
Awesome! They'll all go to the emergency room.

1. It works.

Financial Transaction Taxes in Europe

Belgium, Finland, France, Ireland, Italy, Poland, Spain, Switzerland, Turkey, and the United Kingdom currently levy a type of financial transaction tax

taxfoundation.org

European Union financial transaction tax - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

2023 European Tax Policy Scorecard

The variety of approaches to taxation among European countries creates a need to evaluate these systems relative to each other. For that purpose, we have developed the European Tax Policy Scorecard—a relative comparison of European countries’ tax systems.

taxfoundation.org

2. The wealthy are not hurting. Inflation is hurting the lower half of incomes and fixed incomes. I don't want a 25% cut in SS benefits.

3. Fine. Its officially a State problem.

 

[progressive hunter]

1. Agreed. But many will move out anyway.

2. Maybe you're still not getting it. People will need to get into survival mode if the dollar collapses. There will be pain, less with taxes, more if the dollar collapses.

3. I'd love to send Welfare and Medicaid back to the states. Education too.

so we punish the whole of the country just because a few companies leave???

most peopple are already in survival mode,,

make a choice,,
push it on future generations or stand up like a man and take responsibility for what we have done,,

I would rather do it now than prolong /push the suffering onto generations that did nothing wrong,,

 

[kyzr]

if you are under any delusions about the possibility of balancing the budget i'd recommend the testimony of fed chairman greenspan when demanding a tax cut in 2001. or the testimony of greenspan and treasury secretary/goldman sachs guy paulson. in 2008 testimony.

paying down the debt means that holders of us bonds and other debt will lose their safe investments. a few well placed campaign contributions should make their case to the majority.

What part of "the US dollar collapses" don't you understand? Now I understand why Bitcoin is doing so well.

https://money.usnews.com/investing/articles/de-dollarization-what-happens-if-the-dollar-loses-reserve-status

Could The U.S. Dollar Collapse?

A currency collapse is when a country's currency loses all its value and becomes practically worthless in day to day use

www.forbes.com

What It Would Take for the U.S. Dollar to Collapse

Investors at times have concerns about the dollar's vulnerability, but a review of the dollar's strengths and weaknesses suggests that a currency crisis is unlikely.

www.investopedia.com

The Dollar Is Set for Its Worst Year Since 2020

The dollar closed out its worst year since the onset of the pandemic as Wall Street ramped up bets that the Federal Reserve is set to lower interest rates in 2024.

www.bloomberg.com

 

[kyzr]

The only real math that works is huge spending cuts.
Keep those up for 5 or 10 years, and then we'll consider tax hikes. Maybe.

Yep. That's why I started by going back to 2019 spending levels.
But even then, the interest on the Debt requires more immediate revenue.

2023 $6.1T - $4.4T = $1.7T deficit
2022 $6.3T - $4.9T = $1.4T deficit
2021 $6.8T - $4.0T = $2.8T deficit
2020 $6.5T - $3.4T = $3.1T deficit
2019 $4.4T - $3.4Y = $1.0T deficit

 

[YoursTruly]

the people cant handle more taxs, not to mention our problems will never be solved with more taxs,, what we need is more revenue which means more production of wanted items and that requires lower taxs and more freedom,,

The reason we don't have much now is because of the USD value being in the shitter. $5hr should be a lower middle class wage. If that were the case, those American companies that's either outsourced jobs or completely packed up and left the US, would come back and produce here.
IF they could afford to.

People can claim it's taxes and regulations that pushed employment out the door. But the fact is, it's wages. Why else would automation be such a game changer? 1/2 of GM's workforce is automated. The Trane compressor plant I used to work at, they now have 1 man overseeing 3 machines.

Here's some math to prove what I say.
Let's say you have 1 company of 500 employees here. And one in ......say..... China. (for example)40hr work week. No benefits included. Average hourly wage.

US - 500 X $25hr X 40hr week X 50 weeks = $25 million, just in labor.
China - 500 X $3.60hr X 40hr week X 50 weeks = $3.6 million.

Total savings is over $20 million

Chinese business tax rate is 25%.
US business tax rate is 21%.

An actual increase in the value of the USD would bring those jobs back to the US.

What difference would it make if we were making $5hr instead of $25hr, if that same $5 bought what $25 bought? It wouldn't make much difference to us at all. But it would be a HUGE plus for businesses. We could sell to China, Mexico and many other countries a lot more than we do now. And that would bring in a huge amount of money. And it wouldn't cost Americans 1 dime.

 

[Orangecat]

And to think, in Jan of 1981, when Reagan took office, the national debt was only $2 trillion. 7 presidents later it's $34 trillion.

The people are either going to start supporting actual conservatism. Or conservatism is going to be forced on us. I just hope it's not the latter. Because the latter is going to be worse than the great depression and for a lot longer.

No more welfare, even for the needy. The corporations are going to have to stand on their own two feet, with much higher taxes. The wages will have to plummet. Mortgage companies forced into actual bankruptcy with no government help. People won't stand for the wage cuts that'll be necessary to keep their employers in business, so they'll quit and the companies will be forced to close.
And 1000 other consequences will take hold.

Well, the Mexicans might stick around to fill those jobs. But who knows.

Whether its Trump or Biden in the next election, neither one of them are going to stop the out of control spending. Both have a long record of spending way too much. In fact Trump brags about being the kind of debt and his answer to all of this is to just print more money. Biden's spending record will match Trumps, even with his last two years of a GOP house majority. Because 90% of the house GOP are big spending RINO's like Trump.

Remember when that financial illiterate Obama suggested minting trillion dollar coins? What a buffoon.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

1. It works.

Financial Transaction Taxes in Europe

Belgium, Finland, France, Ireland, Italy, Poland, Spain, Switzerland, Turkey, and the United Kingdom currently levy a type of financial transaction tax

taxfoundation.org

European Union financial transaction tax - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

2023 European Tax Policy Scorecard

The variety of approaches to taxation among European countries creates a need to evaluate these systems relative to each other. For that purpose, we have developed the European Tax Policy Scorecard—a relative comparison of European countries’ tax systems.

taxfoundation.org

2. The wealthy are not hurting. Inflation is hurting the lower half of incomes and fixed incomes. I don't want a 25% cut in SS benefits.

3. Fine. Its officially a State problem.

Thanks for the links.

Now all we need to see is which tranactions are covered and how much revenue is raised.

 

[kyzr]

so we punish the whole of the country just because a few companies leave???

most people are already in survival mode,,

make a choice,, push it on future generations or stand up like a man and take responsibility for what we have done,,
I would rather do it now than prolong /push the suffering onto generations that did nothing wrong,,

1. We punish the country because we borrowed too much.

2. True. But things can always get tougher. My parents lived thru the Great Depression.

3. Exactly right. We want to pass the same great country we lived in to our children, not a broke nightmare.

 

[JWBooth]

Fiscal conservatism now? Or it'll be shoved down our throats later.​

And to think, in Jan of 1981, when Reagan took office, the national debt was only $2 trillion. 7 presidents later it's $34 trillion.

The people are either going to start supporting actual conservatism. Or conservatism is going to be forced on us. I just hope it's not the latter. Because the latter is going to be worse than the great depression and for a lot longer.

No more welfare, even for the needy. The corporations are going to have to stand on their own two feet, with much higher taxes. The wages will have to plummet. Mortgage companies forced into actual bankruptcy with no government help. People won't stand for the wage cuts that'll be necessary to keep their employers in business, so they'll quit and the companies will be forced to close.
And 1000 other consequences will take hold.

Well, the Mexicans might stick around to fill those jobs. But who knows.

Whether its Trump or Biden in the next election, neither one of them are going to stop the out of control spending. Both have a long record of spending way too much. In fact Trump brags about being the kind of debt and his answer to all of this is to just print more money. Biden's spending record will match Trumps, even with his last two years of a GOP house majority. Because 90% of the house GOP are big spending RINO's like Trump.

Austerity measures....The most hated words in the political lexicon.

A complete meltdown will happen before fiscal responsibility will ever take place.

 

[kyzr]

Thanks for the links.

Now all we need to see is which transactions are covered and how much revenue is raised.

From my post #12

Financial Transactions Tax: What You Need to Know - SmartAsset | SmartAsset

A financial transactions tax is levied on trades made of stocks, bonds, derivatives and other financial products. It is favored by progressives.

smartasset.com

 

[progressive hunter]

1. We punish the country because we borrowed too much.

2. True. But things can always get tougher. My parents lived thru the Great Depression.

3. Exactly right. We want to pass the same great country we lived in to our children, not a broke nightmare.

forever with excuses not to take responsibiulty and do the hard thing,,,youre a lost cause,,,


we are already broke,,

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Yep. That's why I started by going back to 2019 spending levels.
But even then, the interest on the Debt requires more immediate revenue.

2023 $6.1T - $4.4T = $1.7T deficit
2022 $6.3T - $4.9T = $1.4T deficit
2021 $6.8T - $4.0T = $2.8T deficit
2020 $6.5T - $3.4T = $3.1T deficit
2019 $4.4T - $3.4Y = $1.0T deficit

That's why I started by going back to 2019 spending levels.

We do that, we could afford a tax cut.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

From my post #12

Financial Transactions Tax: What You Need to Know - SmartAsset | SmartAsset

A financial transactions tax is levied on trades made of stocks, bonds, derivatives and other financial products. It is favored by progressives.

smartasset.com

No, silly, we need to see that it's working in those other countries first.
I have a feeling that first article is a work of fiction.
I don't see any evidence that the UK, just as one example, has an FTT of 0.5%-1.5%.
I think Elke Asen lied to you.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

From my post #12

Financial Transactions Tax: What You Need to Know - SmartAsset | SmartAsset

A financial transactions tax is levied on trades made of stocks, bonds, derivatives and other financial products. It is favored by progressives.

smartasset.com

United Kingdom - Individual - Other taxes

Detailed description of other taxes impacting individuals in United Kingdom

taxsummaries.pwc.com

No mention of a UK FTT at the PricewaterhouseCoopers link.

 

[YoursTruly]

1. SS will be insolvent in 2034 if its not "fixed". That means unless we raise the cap SS only pays out what it takes in, and we'd get about 75% of promised benefits. Without

It is fixed. Even at it's current stage, it's taking in more than it's paying out.

 

[kyzr]

It is fixed. Even at it's current stage, it's taking in more than it's paying out.

From the horses mouth...fix it or in 2035 only get 75% of promised benefits

Research: The Future Financial Status of the Social Security Program

Social Security Administration Research, Statistics, and Policy Analysis

www.ssa.gov

The concepts of solvency, sustainability, and budget impact are common in discussions of Social Security, but are not well understood. Currently, the Social Security Board of Trustees projects program cost to rise by 2035 so that taxes will be enough to pay for only 75 percent of scheduled benefits.

 

[eagle7-31]

And to think, in Jan of 1981, when Reagan took office, the national debt was only $2 trillion. 7 presidents later it's $34 trillion.

The people are either going to start supporting actual conservatism. Or conservatism is going to be forced on us. I just hope it's not the latter. Because the latter is going to be worse than the great depression and for a lot longer.

No more welfare, even for the needy. The corporations are going to have to stand on their own two feet, with much higher taxes. The wages will have to plummet. Mortgage companies forced into actual bankruptcy with no government help. People won't stand for the wage cuts that'll be necessary to keep their employers in business, so they'll quit and the companies will be forced to close.
And 1000 other consequences will take hold.

Well, the Mexicans might stick around to fill those jobs. But who knows.

Whether its Trump or Biden in the next election, neither one of them are going to stop the out of control spending. Both have a long record of spending way too much. In fact Trump brags about being the kind of debt and his answer to all of this is to just print more money. Biden's spending record will match Trumps, even with his last two years of a GOP house majority. Because 90% of the house GOP are big spending RINO's like Trump.

From George Washington to Joe BIden only ONCE has the US government had a balanced budget and no debt. The second term of Andrew Jackson. There have bee surpluses off and on over the years, but only one time no debt and balanced budgets.