FISA Surveillance and Possible Reforms Are Back on the Senate's Agenda

[Disir]

Next week the Senate is poised to resurrect some federal surveillance powers that expired in the midst of the coronavirus pandemic. A handful of senators are hoping to force through reforms to better protect Americans' privacy.

In March the USA Freedom Act expired, somewhat unceremoniously, as lawmakers were unable to reach a consensus on a renewal as the pandemic began to pick up steam and overtake all public policy priorities.

The USA Freedom Act authorized (but restricted) the collection of Americans' phone and internet record metadata that the National Security Agency (NSA) had been gathering without citizen knowledge before Edward Snowden exposed it. A compromise bill, the USA Freedom Act added some buffers to how the NSA would collect the data and required more reporting of the activities of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) courts, so citizens would have a better sense of the extent that this "foreign" surveillance was in fact targeting Americans.

FISA Surveillance and Possible Reforms Are Back on the Senate's Agenda

Next week the Senate is poised to resurrect some federal surveillance powers that expired in the midst of the coronavirus pandemic. A handful of senators

reason.com

Yes. We do need reforms. Once upon a time privacy was a thing.

 

[eagle1462010]

FISA should get circular filed.................the gov't abused this tool..............They can't be trusted with this power any longer.

 

[task0778]

FISA should get circular filed.................the gov't abused this tool..............They can't be trusted with this power any longer.

So, no surveillance at all if an American citizen is involved? Espionage, sabotage, terrorism, etc., we have to wait for the damage to be done and people killed first, then go after the perps, right? Kinda hard to know what they're up to if you have no surveillance operations. How would you even know in the first place what somebody might be planning?

No question the gov't abused that power. But is it wise to stop trying to protect American citizens as a result? Or should we be working harder to change the FISA system to preclude future abuses? I get it, I'm not happy at all with whoever is in charge of the FBI and FISA reforms, doesn't look to me like the necessary changes are being dome, along with the necessary actions against the people who abused it in the 1st place. BUT - when foreign agents of unfriendly gov'ts are talking to US citizens then maybe our gov't investigative services ought to know about it.

 

[eagle1462010]

FISA should get circular filed.................the gov't abused this tool..............They can't be trusted with this power any longer.

So, no surveillance at all if an American citizen is involved? Espionage, sabotage, terrorism, etc., we have to wait for the damage to be done and people killed first, then go after the perps, right? Kinda hard to know what they're up to if you have no surveillance operations. How would you even know in the first place what somebody might be planning?

No question the gov't abused that power. But is it wise to stop trying to protect American citizens as a result? Or should we be working harder to change the FISA system to preclude future abuses? I get it, I'm not happy at all with whoever is in charge of the FBI and FISA reforms, doesn't look to me like the necessary changes are being dome, along with the necessary actions against the people who abused it in the 1st place. BUT - when foreign agents of unfriendly gov'ts are talking to US citizens then maybe our gov't investigative services ought to know about it.

Fool me once shame on you.

Fool me twice shame on me.

Sorry......I don't dance twice with this. They abused the power.........go to regular courts like they did before this court. OH WELL

 

[Oddball]

FISA doesn't need "reforms"...It needs a full flushing like the turd it is.

 

[Tijn Von Ingersleben]

The government will stop doing exactly jack shit. You have no say.

 

[task0778]

FISA should get circular filed.................the gov't abused this tool..............They can't be trusted with this power any longer.

So, no surveillance at all if an American citizen is involved? Espionage, sabotage, terrorism, etc., we have to wait for the damage to be done and people killed first, then go after the perps, right? Kinda hard to know what they're up to if you have no surveillance operations. How would you even know in the first place what somebody might be planning?

No question the gov't abused that power. But is it wise to stop trying to protect American citizens as a result? Or should we be working harder to change the FISA system to preclude future abuses? I get it, I'm not happy at all with whoever is in charge of the FBI and FISA reforms, doesn't look to me like the necessary changes are being dome, along with the necessary actions against the people who abused it in the 1st place. BUT - when foreign agents of unfriendly gov'ts are talking to US citizens then maybe our gov't investigative services ought to know about it.

Fool me once shame on you.

Fool me twice shame on me.

Sorry......I don't dance twice with this. They abused the power.........go to regular courts like they did before this court. OH WELL

Regular courts? Really? Ordinary judges who have little or no experience in matters related to national security and are not equipped and knowledgeable to make these kinds of decisions? I don't think so dude. What are you going to do, in a regular court room the defendant has a right to counsel and cross-examine right? Are we going to tell a guy that we have reason to believe is colluding with foreign agents that he is under surveillance so he can make his case for why that should not happen? Yeah, that'll work, we'll never find out nothin' until a bunch of Americans are fucking dead. I mean fuck it, why then don't we do away with the FBI, they abused their power too, right? And Homeland Security, NSA, and the rest? Along with many other federal agencies, true? Yeah, let's get rid of all of them. Is there anyone here who really sees that are practical?

We are talking here about American citizens who we have reason to believe are involve in a plot to commit some kind of subversive act against the US and it's people. We are trying to get information to PREVENT such an act from occurring; that's not what regular courts do, by and large.

NO - you fix what is broken, change the applicable laws and regs and fire and/or prosecute those who betrayed the public trust. Lay it out for me, anybody, what's your plan if you eliminate FISA? Are we going to try to prevent subversive acts before they happen or not? Are we going to inform the individual((s) that they are under surveillance, so they can appeal? No? So are we going to wait until people are dead, and then go after the perps? Or are we going to allow any federal judge to make the call without telling the person(s)? Where's the gain in that? We have some real lulus out there, federal judges who will rule based on politics rather than reason. No thanks.

 

[eagle1462010]

FISA should get circular filed.................the gov't abused this tool..............They can't be trusted with this power any longer.

So, no surveillance at all if an American citizen is involved? Espionage, sabotage, terrorism, etc., we have to wait for the damage to be done and people killed first, then go after the perps, right? Kinda hard to know what they're up to if you have no surveillance operations. How would you even know in the first place what somebody might be planning?

No question the gov't abused that power. But is it wise to stop trying to protect American citizens as a result? Or should we be working harder to change the FISA system to preclude future abuses? I get it, I'm not happy at all with whoever is in charge of the FBI and FISA reforms, doesn't look to me like the necessary changes are being dome, along with the necessary actions against the people who abused it in the 1st place. BUT - when foreign agents of unfriendly gov'ts are talking to US citizens then maybe our gov't investigative services ought to know about it.

Fool me once shame on you.

Fool me twice shame on me.

Sorry......I don't dance twice with this. They abused the power.........go to regular courts like they did before this court. OH WELL

Regular courts? Really? Ordinary judges who have little or no experience in matters related to national security and are not equipped and knowledgeable to make these kinds of decisions? I don't think so dude. What are you going to do, in a regular court room the defendant has a right to counsel and cross-examine right? Are we going to tell a guy that we have reason to believe is colluding with foreign agents that he is under surveillance so he can make his case for why that should not happen? Yeah, that'll work, we'll never find out nothin' until a bunch of Americans are fucking dead. I mean fuck it, why then don't we do away with the FBI, they abused their power too, right? And Homeland Security, NSA, and the rest? Along with many other federal agencies, true? Yeah, let's get rid of all of them. Is there anyone here who really sees that are practical?

We are talking here about American citizens who we have reason to believe are involve in a plot to commit some kind of subversive act against the US and it's people. We are trying to get information to PREVENT such an act from occurring; that's not what regular courts do, by and large.

NO - you fix what is broken, change the applicable laws and regs and fire and/or prosecute those who betrayed the public trust. Lay it out for me, anybody, what's your plan if you eliminate FISA? Are we going to try to prevent subversive acts before they happen or not? Are we going to inform the individual((s) that they are under surveillance, so they can appeal? No? So are we going to wait until people are dead, and then go after the perps? Or are we going to allow any federal judge to make the call without telling the person(s)? Where's the gain in that? We have some real lulus out there, federal judges who will rule based on politics rather than reason. No thanks.

This nation went a VERY LONG TIME without FISA courts.........which were abused to hell and back.

Our Founding Fathers warned us not to give the Gov't too much power. We didn't listen. FISA is too much power that has been abused............Needs to be flushed down the dang toilet.

 

[task0778]

FISA should get circular filed.................the gov't abused this tool..............They can't be trusted with this power any longer.

So, no surveillance at all if an American citizen is involved? Espionage, sabotage, terrorism, etc., we have to wait for the damage to be done and people killed first, then go after the perps, right? Kinda hard to know what they're up to if you have no surveillance operations. How would you even know in the first place what somebody might be planning?

No question the gov't abused that power. But is it wise to stop trying to protect American citizens as a result? Or should we be working harder to change the FISA system to preclude future abuses? I get it, I'm not happy at all with whoever is in charge of the FBI and FISA reforms, doesn't look to me like the necessary changes are being dome, along with the necessary actions against the people who abused it in the 1st place. BUT - when foreign agents of unfriendly gov'ts are talking to US citizens then maybe our gov't investigative services ought to know about it.

Fool me once shame on you.

Fool me twice shame on me.

Sorry......I don't dance twice with this. They abused the power.........go to regular courts like they did before this court. OH WELL

Regular courts? Really? Ordinary judges who have little or no experience in matters related to national security and are not equipped and knowledgeable to make these kinds of decisions? I don't think so dude. What are you going to do, in a regular court room the defendant has a right to counsel and cross-examine right? Are we going to tell a guy that we have reason to believe is colluding with foreign agents that he is under surveillance so he can make his case for why that should not happen? Yeah, that'll work, we'll never find out nothin' until a bunch of Americans are fucking dead. I mean fuck it, why then don't we do away with the FBI, they abused their power too, right? And Homeland Security, NSA, and the rest? Along with many other federal agencies, true? Yeah, let's get rid of all of them. Is there anyone here who really sees that are practical?

We are talking here about American citizens who we have reason to believe are involve in a plot to commit some kind of subversive act against the US and it's people. We are trying to get information to PREVENT such an act from occurring; that's not what regular courts do, by and large.

NO - you fix what is broken, change the applicable laws and regs and fire and/or prosecute those who betrayed the public trust. Lay it out for me, anybody, what's your plan if you eliminate FISA? Are we going to try to prevent subversive acts before they happen or not? Are we going to inform the individual((s) that they are under surveillance, so they can appeal? No? So are we going to wait until people are dead, and then go after the perps? Or are we going to allow any federal judge to make the call without telling the person(s)? Where's the gain in that? We have some real lulus out there, federal judges who will rule based on politics rather than reason. No thanks.

This nation went a VERY LONG TIME without FISA courts.........which were abused to hell and back.

Our Founding Fathers warned us not to give the Gov't too much power. We didn't listen. FISA is too much power that has been abused............Needs to be flushed down the dang toilet.

Times have changed quite a bit, don't you think? For most of the last 240 years or so since America began, we have not really needed surveillance courts, the technology wasn't there. I think that need is absolutely needed in today's extremely dangerous world. I don't think you've thought this through. Appreciate it if you would answer these questions:

1. Do you think in this day and age that this country needs to surveil communications between US citizens and foreign agents who might not have our best interests in mind?

2. If not are you prepared to accept the consequences of no surveillance? As in the possibility that subversive acts of espionage, sabotage, and terrorism might have been avoided if we allowed surveillance to continue? It's not like there haven't been a whole bunch of successes here.

3. Do you really think the regular court system is up to the job of making decisions involving national security? We're talking about handling some pretty classified stuff here, and quite frankly there are more than a few federal judges that I wouldn't trust. Would you? How and why are they going to be any better than the FISA court judges?

4. You would still have the same problem of someone's civil rights being violated in a regular federal court, no? Exhibit A: Michael Flynn.


The FISA system today is a hot, smokin' mess. But the answer is not to eliminate it, because IMHO the need is there to surveil certain people who are American citizens if they are in cahoots with some bad actors. We just have to fix the system and do it right.