Finnish reporter admits Hamas fires rockets from Shifa Hospital

fanger, et al,

You are right, good catch.

Many people have mistaken outgoing from incoming.

Most Respectfully,
R

Why disguise the huffingtonpost, and pretend it's the BBC?
Gaza's Al-Shifa Hospital Compound, Nearby Park Hit In Attack (UPDATED)

(OPEN APOLOGY)

roccor-albums-picture-picture6719-screen-shot-2014-08-03-at-1-41-20-pm.png


I apologize. I saw "BBC" in bold and just type that in from the News Line Header. No sinister plot intended.

Again, my sincere apology (to you and the membership of the USMB) if the link mislead you in any material way. I made a mistake.

And I owe an apology to Karin Laub. Everyone knows she is an AP Reporter.

Sincerely,
R

So you ARE mortal!




Only on his mothers side......................:smiliehug:
 
@SmedlyButler, et al,

This is a very valid set of points; and a set that is often a matter of perception. This issue has three separate and distinct major components to it (not counting .

EXCERPT:

Please don't make the mistake of accusing me of being a Hamas supporter or of not defending Israel's right to self-defense. As I've stated before what I'm criticizing is the apparent tactic of un-measured response in many of these events. Using civilians as shields is obviously a barbaric Hamas PR ploy. Israel should not accomodate them by
actions that feed into the propaganda.
(OBSERVATION)

Rule 14 Proportionality in Attack:

Launching an attack which may be expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof, which would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated, is prohibited.​

Rule 35 Hospital and Safety Zones and Neutralized Zoneshttp://www.icrc.org/customary-ihl/eng/docs/v1_rul_rule35

Directing an attack against a zone established to shelter the wounded, the sick and civilians from the effects of hostilities is prohibited.​

Rule 97 Human Shields

The use of human shields is prohibited.​

(CONCEPT IDEAS)

The idea behind the proportionality rule is based on a comparison. Rephrased --- one could say that:
  • The (concrete and direct military advantage anticipated) ≥ (incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects).

The idea behind the Hospital and Safety Zone rules is based on the humanitarian view that all life (in a non-combatant roll) has value and needs protected.

The idea that behind the Human Shield Prohibition rule is based on the humanitarian view that all life (in a non-combatant roll) has value and needs protected.

(STRATEGY & POLITICS)

By HAMAS of attempting to launch attacks from the shadow of a Hospital and Safety Zone is a win-win strategy for HAMAS. If the IDF returns fire, and induces "incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects" --- the IDF is vilified and demonized. If the IDF restrains fire, the effect of the human shield has allowed the launch of lethal force without consequence. Either way, HAMAS wins. It has been a very effective strategy.

The UN, via the High Commissioner for Human Rights (Navi Pillay) has effectively given tacit approval for HAMAS to violate Rule 11 - Indiscriminate attacks are prohibited and HAMAS has tacit approval to fire in violation of Rule 97 on Human Shields --- while emphasizing Israeli need to absorb without response, over 14,000 rocket and mortar attacks over the last 120 months; and that any Israeli response to HAMAS Rule 97 launches would be considered a violation. This effectively denies Israel the right of self-defense.

[ame="http://youtu.be/FWGIR6s_nDE"]Gaza Reporter Startled by Palestinian Rocket Launch during Live Broadcast[/ame]

(COMMENT)

When one examines the rules, one has to look at the overall picture. It is clear that everyone knows that rockets are fired from populated areas. If you believe that Israel has an obligation to protect its sovereign integrity and citizenry then --- the question is, how is Israel to interdict rocket and mortar launches?

Part of the military response is to convince the opponent that there are consequences to an attack. To allow HAMAS to fire indiscriminately and with an exemption from punishment or freedom from the injurious consequences of an action it to grant a concrete and direct military advantage to HAMAS. HAMAS may fire indiscriminately into Israel, yet Israel may not return fire. This is the inverse to Rule 14 through the application of Rule 97 under the protection of Rule 35.

This then only allows for the application of Rule 20; where each party to the conflict must give effective advance warning of attacks which may affect the civilian population, unless circumstances do not permit. However, such warning often result in the escape of the opponent.

How is this resolved?

Most Respectfully,
R
 
RoccoR, how can it be resolved when the Israelis are the only ones abiding by the rules? Hamas is a terrorist organization. How can one even negotiate with a terrorist organization? Isn't this madness?
 
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Jeremiah, et al,

You don't negotiate with terrorists. You neutralize terrorists.

RoccoR, how can it be resolved when the Israelis are the only ones abiding by the rules? Hamas is a terrorist organization. How can one even negotiate with a terrorist organization? Isn't this madness?
(COMMENT)

In dealing with the Arab Palestinian, you need a total campaign strategy, not just a spot response strategy.

To date, the Israelis and (in the background) the Quartet, have been attempting a Political solution with military action as a necessary but unwanted side action. That's because the Quartet believes that there is no military solution. But as firm as the Quartet is in the belief that a military solution is not possible, the Arab Palestinian believe the exact opposite. The Arab Palestinian believe that Jihad and Armed Struggle is not only a solution, but "the solution."

It is time that Israel and the Quartet play the Arab Palestinian game; adopting their strategy of Jihad and Armed Struggle. In fact, Israel may find it necessary to leave the Quartet behind and, at some point, total disengagement from UN Participation; organizational withdrawal.

But such a strategy needs to be well planned. It would entail a number of of very strategic and well thought out actions in advance, to including the complete and total severance (diplomatic, commercial and travel) from certain countries. The strategy has to be a total strategy, that equally encompasses the diplomatic efforts in concert with economic and military action.

Israel is behind the 8-Ball if it consistently tries to follow unsuccessful US non-military strategies - as it has for more than half a century. It must be determined to shake-off the limitations placed on it and adopt the same rules by which HAMAS and the Arab Palestinians play by. Otherwise, it leaves it self open to criticisms for non-compliance with International Humanitarian Laws for which the UN (UNHCR), the ICRC, and the associated international organizations refuse to apply to HAMAS and the Arab-Palestinian community.

Most Respectfully,
R
 

that any rocket fired from Gazan territory will not result in Israeli deaths and the near certainty that the destruction of a hospital or shelter will cause the deaths of women and children I think it is legitimate to question the judiciouness of the IDF response.

There have been over 3,000 rocket or mortar attacks on Israel in the last 7 mos. which have resulted in 6 civilian deaths and 41 injuries. Retaliation by Israel has resulted in over 1000 Palistinian deaths and near 8,000 injuries. (I'm not 100% sure those stats are still accurate but I'm confident they are close)

Please don't make the mistake of accusing me of being a Hamas supporter or of not defending Israel's right to self-defense. As I've stated before what I'm criticizing is the apparent tactic of un-measured response in many of these events. Using civilians as shields is obviously a barbaric Hamas PR ploy. Israel should not accomodate them by
actions that feed into the propaganda.
The IDF teaches a terrible, frightful lesson in Disproportionate Response.

That is the whole point of the present exercise.

It is the price Hamas pays for provoking the Israeli lion once too egregiously, once too often.

Let them pay the price.

And it is not just rockets.

It is the network of tunnels that they had constructed in advance of a planned coordinated commando attack upon Israeli border towns and settlements in late September.

Their supporters must decide whether the horrific price that Hamas is making them pay, is worth what they achieve in return.

This is war, and Gazans must now decide whether they want to continue playing the game, now that the Israelis have (quite correctly) upped the ante.
 
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LOL@ the Euro-trash 'journalist' who is actually upset she let an actual factual observation slip through in one of her 'reports'. The Onion couldn't do a funnier send up of such contemptible dishonest propagandists. Truly, truly hilarious black comedy here.
 

that any rocket fired from Gazan territory will not result in Israeli deaths and the near certainty that the destruction of a hospital or shelter will cause the deaths of women and children I think it is legitimate to question the judiciouness of the IDF response.

There have been over 3,000 rocket or mortar attacks on Israel in the last 7 mos. which have resulted in 6 civilian deaths and 41 injuries. Retaliation by Israel has resulted in over 1000 Palistinian deaths and near 8,000 injuries. (I'm not 100% sure those stats are still accurate but I'm confident they are close)

Please don't make the mistake of accusing me of being a Hamas supporter or of not defending Israel's right to self-defense. As I've stated before what I'm criticizing is the apparent tactic of un-measured response in many of these events. Using civilians as shields is obviously a barbaric Hamas PR ploy. Israel should not accomodate them by
actions that feed into the propaganda.

NO. The response is completely commensurate. If Hamas had long range rockets, it would be firing them. If Hamas had a nuclear weapon, it would immediately use it.

Hamas, and Hamas alone, is responsible for this newest war, and it will end when Hamas is completely crushed.

I cannot agree with you on that one, but I don't think that you are a Hamas supporter.
 
...I cannot agree with you on that one, but I don't think that you are a Hamas supporter.
Ditto. At first glance, I do not believe that Smedly is a Hamas supporter.

It's merely that many people of goodwill - quite undestandably, God bless 'em - do not comprehend or appreciate the value of an object lesson in Disproportionate Response, when confronted with a lethal, implacable, mortal enemy, who lives no more than a stone's throw away from your family's own home. Most of us are never - thank God - faced with such a dilemma and such difficult alternatives to choose from.
 
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...I cannot agree with you on that one, but I don't think that you are a Hamas supporter.
Ditto. At first glance, I do not believe that Smedly is a Hamas supporter.

It's merely that many people of goodwill - quite undestandably, God bless 'em - do not comprehend or appreciate the value of an object lesson in Disproportionate Response, when confronted with a lethal, implacable, mortal enemy, who lives no more than a stone's throw away from your family's own home. Most of us are never - thank God - faced with such a dilemma and such difficult alternatives to choose from.


Also when you consider that the probability is extremely high that Hamas has likely built hundreds and hundreds of tunnels deep into Israel and was planning a mass terror attack.

Maybe people will understand why Israel does not allow those in the Gaza strip to order their own cement, and yet, Hamas, which misappropriates UN (and US) funds, still gets it's hands on cement. It is time to completely pull out all US aid to the palis and to also defund the UN.
 
All the ridiculous sniveling about 'disproportionate response' is merely whining about there not being enough Jews killed for their liking, that's all. Nothing to be taken seriously by adults.
 
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