Final " negotiations" are DOA !!!!!!!!

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Palestinians make stiff land demands for peace deal | The Times of Israel












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Palestinians make stiff land demands for peace deal

PA reportedly allowing only for limited land swaps and insisting that all refugees be given leave to settle in Israel if they wish

By Ilan Ben Zion October 27, 2013, 9:57 pm 125










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President Barack Obama and Vice President Joe Biden, along with Palestinian Chief Negotiator Saeb Erekat and Mohammed Shtayyeh (right) and Israeli Justice Minister Tzipi Livni and Yitzhak Molho (left) at the formal resumption of direct Israeli-Palestinian negotiations, in the Oval Office, July 30, 2013. (photo credit: Official White House Photo, Chuck Kennedy)
President Barack Obama and Vice President Joe Biden, along with Palestinian Chief Negotiator Saeb Erekat and Mohammed Shtayyeh (right) and Israeli Justice Minister Tzipi Livni and Yitzhak Molho (left) at the formal resumption of direct Israeli-Palestinian negotiations, in the Oval Office, July 30, 2013. (photo credit: Official White House Photo, Chuck Kennedy)



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Ilan Ben Zion

Ilan Ben Zion Ilan Ben Zion is a news editor at The Times of Israel. He holds a Masters degree in Diplomacy from … [More]





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Israeli-Palestinian peace talks
Palestinian Authority
Palestinian right of return

More on this story
Bereaved families gather to protest prisoner release
Netanyahu: Prisoner release one of ‘toughest’ decisions as PM
A prisoner release beset by extremists on both sides
Israel names 26 Palestinian prisoners to be freed in 48 hours
Abbas said to soften stance on interim peace agreement
Israel OKs release of 26 Palestinian prisoners
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Politicians jostle as prisoner release pends


The Palestinian Authority demands that any land swap with Israel as part of a peace deal not exceed 1.9 percent of the West Bank, less than half of the land necessary to incorporate the lion’s share of settlers, according to details leaked to Channel 2 by a disgruntled Palestinian official on Sunday.

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According to the report, the Palestinians are also insisting that they gain control over water, and control at their sides of the Dead Sea and border crossings; that a Palestinian state be able to sign agreements with other states without Israeli intervention; that Israel release all Palestinian prisoners it holds; and that all Palestinian refugees and their descendants be granted the right to choose to live in Israel or the Palestinian territories as part of a final agreement.




The report made no mention of Israel’s position on these issues, but the government of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has been wary of a Palestinian state exercising full sovereign powers that might threaten Israeli security, and all Israeli governments have rejected the possibility of anything other than a token influx of Palestinian refugees, for fear of remaking the demographic balance of the Jewish state.


T

THANK GOD !!!!! :smiliehug:
 
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MJB12741

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Why does Israel still try to make peace with Palestinians? Has enough history not proven that such efforts only produce hatred, jihad's, intifadas & rocket missiles for a thank you? Want peace Israel? This entire Zionist agenda has to go. When will Israel learn to just treat the Palestinians like their own Arab brothers in surrounding Arab countries do? King Hussein was right. LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY!



Palestinians make stiff land demands for peace deal | The Times of Israel












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Israel & the Region

Palestinians make stiff land demands for peace deal

PA reportedly allowing only for limited land swaps and insisting that all refugees be given leave to settle in Israel if they wish

By Ilan Ben Zion October 27, 2013, 9:57 pm 125









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President Barack Obama and Vice President Joe Biden, along with Palestinian Chief Negotiator Saeb Erekat and Mohammed Shtayyeh (right) and Israeli Justice Minister Tzipi Livni and Yitzhak Molho (left) at the formal resumption of direct Israeli-Palestinian negotiations, in the Oval Office, July 30, 2013. (photo credit: Official White House Photo, Chuck Kennedy)
President Barack Obama and Vice President Joe Biden, along with Palestinian Chief Negotiator Saeb Erekat and Mohammed Shtayyeh (right) and Israeli Justice Minister Tzipi Livni and Yitzhak Molho (left) at the formal resumption of direct Israeli-Palestinian negotiations, in the Oval Office, July 30, 2013. (photo credit: Official White House Photo, Chuck Kennedy)



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Ilan Ben Zion

Ilan Ben Zion Ilan Ben Zion is a news editor at The Times of Israel. He holds a Masters degree in Diplomacy from … [More]
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Related Topics
Israeli-Palestinian peace talks
Palestinian Authority
Palestinian right of return

More on this story
Bereaved families gather to protest prisoner release
Netanyahu: Prisoner release one of ‘toughest’ decisions as PM
A prisoner release beset by extremists on both sides
Israel names 26 Palestinian prisoners to be freed in 48 hours
Abbas said to soften stance on interim peace agreement
Israel OKs release of 26 Palestinian prisoners
Ministers reject bid to block Palestinian prisoner releases
Politicians jostle as prisoner release pends


The Palestinian Authority demands that any land swap with Israel as part of a peace deal not exceed 1.9 percent of the West Bank, less than half of the land necessary to incorporate the lion’s share of settlers, according to details leaked to Channel 2 by a disgruntled Palestinian official on Sunday.

Get The Times of Israel's Daily Edition by email
and never miss our top stories Free Sign up!

According to the report, the Palestinians are also insisting that they gain control over water, and control at their sides of the Dead Sea and border crossings; that a Palestinian state be able to sign agreements with other states without Israeli intervention; that Israel release all Palestinian prisoners it holds; and that all Palestinian refugees and their descendants be granted the right to choose to live in Israel or the Palestinian territories as part of a final agreement.




The report made no mention of Israel’s position on these issues, but the government of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has been wary of a Palestinian state exercising full sovereign powers that might threaten Israeli security, and all Israeli governments have rejected the possibility of anything other than a token influx of Palestinian refugees, for fear of remaking the demographic balance of the Jewish state.


T

THANK GOD !!!!! :smiliehug:
 

Mojo2

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Why does Israel still try to make peace with Palestinians? Has enough history not proven that such efforts only produce hatred, jihad's, intifadas & rocket missiles for a thank you? Want peace Israel? This entire Zionist agenda has to go. When will Israel learn to just treat the Palestinians like their own Arab brothers in surrounding Arab countries do? King Hussein was right. LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY!

[ED: "SNIP"]

THANK GOD !!!!! :smiliehug:
[/QUOTE]

I imagine their giving up the "Zionist agenda," to be something like our giving up the "Freedom agenda" or the "Constitution agenda."

It's our birthright from God, himself.

No Muslim was born or in existence before the birth of Mohammad. And at that point, if I'm not mistaken, Jerusalem was already a thriving city many hundreds of years old.

Neither Israel nor Jerusalem were ever promised to Arabs. They only claimed the area after God awarded the deed to the land to the Jews.

The Israelis own that land in every method that I can think of.

The UN granted them recognition (representing an overwhelming number of member nations) as a state.

The USA, as the world's most powerful, prosperous and influential nation on Earth established formal ties to Israel and recognized her sovereignty.

Israel defeated a multi national attack by her Arab neighbors and won claim to the captured areas as the spoils of war.

The prosperity Israel enjoys came through the blood, sweat, tears, fortune and ingenuity of the jews who bought the arid or swampy or unfertile land and turned it into a life sustaining and then profitable land. They rehabbed the barren land which had gone fallow for decades or longer and made it fruitful.

They include Arabs and Muslims as equal citizens under the law and treat them as such. This underscores the idea that they are the rightful Government for ALL the people. Not just Jews.

They have acted responsibly as the Government should, further justifying their rightness of sovereignty.

But most of all, GOD GAVE THEM THE LAND.

No, they should not give up the Zionist agenda, IMO.
 
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Kondor3

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"Right of return" will kill the deal.

It is how the Arabs plan to overwhelm the Jews eventually.

It is what the Jews must refuse and prevent.

Unless they've completely taken leave of their senses.
 

abu afak

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Hey, I'm not a stickler for Spelling Etc..
But the OP shows complete Posting Retardation.
For God sakes man, can't you Close up the vertical Spacing and edit OUT:

'print'


'email'


'share'
facebook et al


'Newsroom'


'Partner Links'


'writers'


'subscribe'


'Free sign up'


etc

There's about 150 Vertical lines of needless spacing and junk
Then another Genius needlessly QUOTES the abortion OP instead of just responding to it.
.
 
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OP
P

proudveteran06

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Hey I'm not a stickler for Spelling Etc..
But the OP shows complete Posting Retardation.
For God sakes man, can't you Close up the vertical Spacing and edit OUT:

'print'

'email'

'share'

'Partner Links'

'writers'

'subscribe'

etc

Then another Genius needlessly QUOTES the abortion OP instead of just responding to it.
`
Did it on my I Phone which I'm still trying to get the hang of . The message is the same, Moron . NO PALESTINIAN STATE ! :cool:
 

SAYIT

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"Right of return" will kill the deal.

It is how the Arabs plan to overwhelm the Jews eventually.

It is what the Jews must refuse and prevent.

Unless they've completely taken leave of their senses.
I believe some reading-between-the-lines is in order. Abbas didn't say Pals who wish to live in Israel and their progeny must be granted Israeli citizenship and the land swap numbers may be negotiable. You know Bibi will come back with some "Jewish State" language and security issues. Let's give 'em some time and see if the actors are ready for peace (which would stick in GeorgieP's craw). :D
 
OP
P

proudveteran06

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"Right of return" will kill the deal.

It is how the Arabs plan to overwhelm the Jews eventually.

It is what the Jews must refuse and prevent.

Unless they've completely taken leave of their senses.
I believe some reading-between-the-lines is in order. Abbas didn't say Pals who wish to live in Israel and their progeny must be granted Israeli citizenship and the land swap numbers may be negotiable. You know Bibi will come back with some "Jewish State" language and security issues. Let's give 'em some time and see if the actors are ready for peace (which would stick in GeorgieP's craw). :D
Abbas did say that ALL Palestinians have the RIGHT to return
 

P F Tinmore

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"Right of return" will kill the deal.

It is how the Arabs plan to overwhelm the Jews eventually.

It is what the Jews must refuse and prevent.

Unless they've completely taken leave of their senses.
I believe some reading-between-the-lines is in order. Abbas didn't say Pals who wish to live in Israel and their progeny must be granted Israeli citizenship and the land swap numbers may be negotiable. You know Bibi will come back with some "Jewish State" language and security issues. Let's give 'em some time and see if the actors are ready for peace (which would stick in GeorgieP's craw). :D
Abbas did say that ALL Palestinians have the RIGHT to return
Abbas does not have the authority to sign away other people's rights.
 

Hossfly

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I believe some reading-between-the-lines is in order. Abbas didn't say Pals who wish to live in Israel and their progeny must be granted Israeli citizenship and the land swap numbers may be negotiable. You know Bibi will come back with some "Jewish State" language and security issues. Let's give 'em some time and see if the actors are ready for peace (which would stick in GeorgieP's craw). :D
Abbas did say that ALL Palestinians have the RIGHT to return
Abbas does not have the authority to sign away other people's rights.
I'll take that bet. But, as we all well know, the walk-out draws nigh.
 

SAYIT

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"Right of return" will kill the deal.

It is how the Arabs plan to overwhelm the Jews eventually.

It is what the Jews must refuse and prevent.

Unless they've completely taken leave of their senses.
I believe some reading-between-the-lines is in order. Abbas didn't say Pals who wish to live in Israel and their progeny must be granted Israeli citizenship and the land swap numbers may be negotiable. You know Bibi will come back with some "Jewish State" language and security issues. Let's give 'em some time and see if the actors are ready for peace (which would stick in GeorgieP's craw). :D
Abbas did say that ALL Palestinians have the RIGHT to return
Easy there, PV. The devil, as always, will be in the language and all sides will cover their political butts. To move to Israel one must find housing and work. I guarantee they will not open the gates to more tent dwellers so housing will be rare and EXPENSIVE. That's why God made zoning laws.
 

Kondor3

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I believe some reading-between-the-lines is in order. Abbas didn't say Pals who wish to live in Israel and their progeny must be granted Israeli citizenship and the land swap numbers may be negotiable. You know Bibi will come back with some "Jewish State" language and security issues. Let's give 'em some time and see if the actors are ready for peace (which would stick in GeorgieP's craw). :D
Abbas did say that ALL Palestinians have the RIGHT to return
Abbas does not have the authority to sign away other people's rights.
And it is this kind of intransigence that would make me - in their shoes - begin the process of evicting and expelling every last Muslim-Palestinian; in Gaza, for starters, and then the West Bank; and Devil take the consequences.

Tinny does, indeed, represent the mindset of the Palestinians in such matters. There is no middle-ground or compromise with the Palestinians. They want it all and will settle for nothing less. They will dissemble and deceive and lie and deal falsely along the way but them settling for anything less than 'all' is deceptive and a mere temporary state of affairs.

Consequently, there can be no peace unless...

1. Israel is destroyed

2. The Palestinians are exterminated

3. The Palestinians are evicted from their homes and expelled to Egypt, Jordan, etc.

(1) is not going to happen.

(2) is too bloodthirsty and inhumane, and risks an intervention

(3) is the only answer left

All three options involve blood.

(3) involves the least amount of blood; all or most of the displaced are still alive at the end of it, and nobody will interfere, other than to protest or boycott.

It has been 65 years and the foolhardy Palestinians have never really budged an inch.

They cannot be trusted - as negotiating partners or neighbors.

Ever.

Time to send them packing, while the Israelis have the muscle, and while all of the neighboring Arab countries are militarily impotent.

There is no other form of relief (for the Israelis) in sight.

Might as well admit it, bite the goddamned bullet, and get started.

Long-term, in light of the alternatives, the Israelis have nothing to lose by doing so.

I wonder if they are beginning to think in similar terms?

We may find out, when this latest round of pointless talks fails.

Of course, the Israelis may find a way to drag this out for another 3 years - long enough for a new and more sympathetic American administration to be sworn-in, but it seems unlikely that America will interfere, once the next round of talks fail, if the Israelis finally begin to act.

This idiotic revisiting of Right-of-Return on the part of the Palestinians is a Poison Pill designed to kill the talks.

I wonder if the Palestinians know just how dangerous such a tactic may prove, this time around?

Fools.
 
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proudveteran06

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Abbas did say that ALL Palestinians have the RIGHT to return
Abbas does not have the authority to sign away other people's rights.
And it is this kind of intransigence that would make me - in their shoes - begin the process of evicting and expelling every last Muslim-Palestinian; in Gaza, for starters, and then the West Bank; and Devil take the consequences.

Tinny does, indeed, represent the mindset of the Palestinians in such matters. There is no middle-ground or compromise with the Palestinians. They want it all and will settle for nothing less. They will dissemble and deceive and lie and deal falsely along the way but them settling for anything less than 'all' is deceptive and a mere temporary state of affairs.

Consequently, there can be no peace unless...

1. Israel is destroyed

2. The Palestinians are exterminated

3. The Palestinians are evicted from their homes and expelled to Egypt, Jordan, etc.

(1) is not going to happen.

(2) is too bloodthirsty and inhumane, and risks an intervention

(3) is the only answer left

All three options involve blood.

(3) involves the least amount of blood; all or most of the displaced are still alive at the end of it, and nobody will interfere, other than to protest or boycott.

It has been 65 years and the foolhardy Palestinians have never really budged an inch.

They cannot be trusted - as negotiating partners or neighbors.

Ever.

Time to send them packing, while the Israelis have the muscle, and while all of the neighboring Arab countries are militarily impotent.

There is no other form of relief (for the Israelis) in sight.

Might as well admit it, bite the goddamned bullet, and get started.

Long-term, in light of the alternatives, the Israelis have nothing to lose by doing so.

I wonder if they are beginning to think in similar terms?

We may find out, when this latest round of pointless talks fails.

Of course, the Israelis may find a way to drag this out for another 3 years - long enough for a new and more sympathetic American administration to be sworn-in, but it seems unlikely that America will interfere, once the next round of talks fail, if the Israelis finally begin to act.

This idiotic revisiting of Right-of-Return on the part of the Palestinians is a Poison Pill designed to kill the talks.

I wonder if the Palestinians know just how dangerous such a tactic may prove, this time around?

Fools.
Ask this Palestinian why Israel would agree to terms that would annex them to the " Palestinian state" and there will be no response. Let them keep insisting on it . :cuckoo:
 

Kondor3

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"...Ask this Palestinian why Israel would agree to terms that would annex them to the 'Palestinian state' and there will be no response. Let them keep insisting on it. :cuckoo:
That would mean asking a Palestinian to be rational and realistic.
 

P F Tinmore

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Abbas did say that ALL Palestinians have the RIGHT to return
Abbas does not have the authority to sign away other people's rights.
And it is this kind of intransigence that would make me - in their shoes - begin the process of evicting and expelling every last Muslim-Palestinian; in Gaza, for starters, and then the West Bank; and Devil take the consequences.

Tinny does, indeed, represent the mindset of the Palestinians in such matters. There is no middle-ground or compromise with the Palestinians. They want it all and will settle for nothing less. They will dissemble and deceive and lie and deal falsely along the way but them settling for anything less than 'all' is deceptive and a mere temporary state of affairs.

Consequently, there can be no peace unless...

1. Israel is destroyed

2. The Palestinians are exterminated

3. The Palestinians are evicted from their homes and expelled to Egypt, Jordan, etc.

(1) is not going to happen.

(2) is too bloodthirsty and inhumane, and risks an intervention

(3) is the only answer left

All three options involve blood.

(3) involves the least amount of blood; all or most of the displaced are still alive at the end of it, and nobody will interfere, other than to protest or boycott.

It has been 65 years and the foolhardy Palestinians have never really budged an inch.

They cannot be trusted - as negotiating partners or neighbors.

Ever.

Time to send them packing, while the Israelis have the muscle, and while all of the neighboring Arab countries are militarily impotent.

There is no other form of relief (for the Israelis) in sight.

Might as well admit it, bite the goddamned bullet, and get started.

Long-term, in light of the alternatives, the Israelis have nothing to lose by doing so.

I wonder if they are beginning to think in similar terms?

We may find out, when this latest round of pointless talks fails.

Of course, the Israelis may find a way to drag this out for another 3 years - long enough for a new and more sympathetic American administration to be sworn-in, but it seems unlikely that America will interfere, once the next round of talks fail, if the Israelis finally begin to act.

This idiotic revisiting of Right-of-Return on the part of the Palestinians is a Poison Pill designed to kill the talks.

I wonder if the Palestinians know just how dangerous such a tactic may prove, this time around?

Fools.
All three options involve blood.
The Zionist's project to take Palestine from the Palestinians has always involved blood.
 

Kondor3

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"...The Zionist's project to take Palestine from the Palestinians has always involved blood."
Indeed.

And there will probably be a great deal MORE blood spilled in the coming months and years, if the Palestinians don't get their heads out of their asses and compromise.

And if that comes to pass, the vast majority of that blood will be Palestinian, not Israeli.

The Palestinians are running out of time.
 

P F Tinmore

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"...The Zionist's project to take Palestine from the Palestinians has always involved blood."
Indeed.

And there will probably be a great deal MORE blood spilled in the coming months and years, if the Palestinians don't get their heads out of their asses and compromise.

And if that comes to pass, the vast majority of that blood will be Palestinian, not Israeli.

The Palestinians are running out of time.
Maybe it is Israel that is running out of time. Israel has always hid its crimes behind a cloud of BS. The world is starting to see through its lies and will one day hold Israel accountable.
 

Phoenall

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"Right of return" will kill the deal.

It is how the Arabs plan to overwhelm the Jews eventually.

It is what the Jews must refuse and prevent.

Unless they've completely taken leave of their senses.


For the muslims to claim a right of return they must also grant the Jews a right of return to their former homes. A refusal on allowing 1.5 million Jews to take up residence on land outside of Isreal must result in the UN GA calling a meeting and making the right noises. No right of return for either party takes that out of the equation and just leaves negotiated borders.
 

Phoenall

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I believe some reading-between-the-lines is in order. Abbas didn't say Pals who wish to live in Israel and their progeny must be granted Israeli citizenship and the land swap numbers may be negotiable. You know Bibi will come back with some "Jewish State" language and security issues. Let's give 'em some time and see if the actors are ready for peace (which would stick in GeorgieP's craw). :D
Abbas did say that ALL Palestinians have the RIGHT to return
Abbas does not have the authority to sign away other people's rights.



Then each individual will need to negotiate for them selves, making for a long drawn out process. One that will flounder when the first person signs and that would be the target for all future negotiations. Could you negotiate a personal peace formula if you were faced with professional negotiaters. Isreal will have the support of its people to negotiate what is right for all.


Seems that you don't want a peace deal between Israel and the muslims, and would prefer to see both sides wiped out
 

Phoenall

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I believe some reading-between-the-lines is in order. Abbas didn't say Pals who wish to live in Israel and their progeny must be granted Israeli citizenship and the land swap numbers may be negotiable. You know Bibi will come back with some "Jewish State" language and security issues. Let's give 'em some time and see if the actors are ready for peace (which would stick in GeorgieP's craw). :D
Abbas did say that ALL Palestinians have the RIGHT to return
Easy there, PV. The devil, as always, will be in the language and all sides will cover their political butts. To move to Israel one must find housing and work. I guarantee they will not open the gates to more tent dwellers so housing will be rare and EXPENSIVE. That's why God made zoning laws.


Also to claim that they owned the land they must first produce title to that land. A rusty mass produced key is not valid
 

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