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Female Circumcision Case

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http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/10/27/female.circumcision.ap/index.html

An ethiopian immigrant is on trial for cutting off his daughter's clitoris. The pracitce is known as female genital mutilation to the rest of the world, but it is common in rural parts of Africa--including Ethiopia.

Three details of the case:
1) The man contests this practice does not take place in the Ethiopian city he originates from, only from rural parts of the country.
2) The daughter testified against the father, but the daughter lives with her mother. The man on trial is divorced from his wife and believes the wife's family is responsible for both the mutilation and forcing the daughter to testify against him.
3) The man faces up to 40 years in prison if convicted.

The girl was 2 at the time, and is seven now. I do not trust a persons memory from when they are two. This girl was probably under a lot of pressure to "remember" a certain way from both the father and the mother...if I was a jurror I would not give the daughter's testimony much weight.

This is a very interesting case. No matter who is responsible, this is a nasty tradition, that should not be accepted in the United States. It can have a severe emotional impact on the female victims and of course physical problems can come up as well (after all, the procedure is done with razors, scissors, knives, etc.).

My questions:
1) Is the punishment too harsh?
2) What stance should the U.S. take on foreign customs of this nature?
3) Would the custom be acceptable if performed in a more professional manner?

My answers: Yes, don't allow it, no.
-This should be treated differently than male circumcision because the victims are usually not babies, I think traditionally the procedure is performed as they reach the age before marriage...or in this girl's case, the age of 2.

What do you think?
 

dmp

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My questions:
1) Is the punishment too harsh?
2) What stance should the U.S. take on foreign customs of this nature?
3) Would the custom be acceptable if performed in a more professional manner?


First off - this isn't circumcision at all...unless that word now means cutting off the tip of a man's penis.

:eek:

It's HORRIBLE...it's child abuse...those doing this should be placed in jail for decades.

It's not the US's responsibility to change the laws of other countries. If a country has no laws against the practice, all we can do is pressure them thru economic means.

There's NO acceptable method of the procedure. It's barbaric; worse than RAPE IMO.

Oh - and the girl's testimony is worthless.
 

Mr. P

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The child's mother said she did not discover it until more than a year later.
I think that is a lie. Makes me suspect of who dunnit.
 

Nienna

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When I first heard of this practice, I literally almost vomited. The mental images haunted me for DAYS! What POSSIBLE good could this serve, even for men? Disgusting, evil, ignorant practice!

1)If guilty, 40 years doesn't seem too harsh a punishment for the man.
2)I don't see how the US could force the customs to stop, since, I believe it generally takes place in rural areas. But perhaps we could send people out on education missions as we do for other health concerns.
3)Professional and painless or not, the end result has NO acceptable value.
 

Mr. P

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When I first heard of this practice, I literally almost vomited. The mental images haunted me for DAYS! What POSSIBLE good could this serve, even for men? Disgusting, evil, ignorant practice!

1)If guilty, 40 years doesn't seem too harsh a punishment for the man.
2)I don't see how the US could force the customs to stop, since, I believe it generally takes place in rural areas. But perhaps we could send people out on education missions as we do for other health concerns.
3)Professional and painless or not, the end result has NO acceptable value.

You must feel the same about male circumcision then too?

*For the record I think female circumcision is a disgusting practice.*
 

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You must feel the same about male circumcision then too?

*For the record I think female circumcision is a disgusting practice.*

Nope. Male circumcision does not inhibit sexual pleasure (it may actually enhance it), and has been shown to have some health benefits (ie, it is easier to keep that area clean).
 

Nienna

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I think that is a lie. Makes me suspect of who dunnit.

Good point. A mother should still have intimate knowledge of a child's "areas" when the child is that young. They require assistance in cleaning. No way she couldn't have noticed for a YEAR.
 

Mr. P

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Nope. Male circumcision does not inhibit sexual pleasure (it may actually enhance it), and has been shown to have some health benefits (ie, it is easier to keep that area clean).

True but it’s still a mutilation of the natural body for what, a covenant, right? A belief, not for pleasure or cleanliness. I may be wrong.
 

Nienna

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True but it’s still a mutilation of the natural body for what, a covenant, right? A belief, not for pleasure or cleanliness. I may be wrong.

Many people besides Jews circumcise their boys. It's not just a religious belief.
 

Mr. P

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Many people besides Jews circumcise their boys. It's not just a religious belief.

I know, but it all started that way. Which is what I'm getting at. It started with a belief and for whatever reason so did female circumcision. Wouldn't you agree?
 

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I know, but it all started that way. Which is what I'm getting at. It started with a belief and for whatever reason so did female circumcision. Wouldn't you agree?

I agree that both practices started as religious beliefs. However, there are NO health benefits attached to female circumcision, and there are health benefits attached to male circumcision. This is why I support one and not the other.
 

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Uh - easy answer to circumcision. Uncircumcized wangs just LOOK funny.
 

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I agree that both practices started as religious beliefs. However, there are NO health benefits attached to female circumcision, and there are health benefits attached to male circumcision. This is why I support one and not the other.

True there are not health benefits to female circumcision. Not that I know of anyway. But, neither is male circumcision. IMO
The mere fact one (male) is circumcised vs non -circumcised is not a health benefit. No doubt it makes keeping clean easier, but that's about it. I see it as a convenience thing more than a health thing.
 

Nienna

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True there are not health benefits to female circumcision. Not that I know of anyway. But, neither is male circumcision. IMO
The mere fact one (male) is circumcised vs non -circumcised is not a health benefit. No doubt it makes keeping clean easier, but that's about it. I see it as a convenience thing more than a health thing.

Okay, say it IS just a convenience thing... is there ANYTHING convenient at all about female circumcision? Is there ANY benefit to this other than the insane belief that it somehow makes a female more sexually "pure"?
 

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Okay, say it IS just a convenience thing... is there ANYTHING convenient at all about female circumcision? Is there ANY benefit to this other than the insane belief that it somehow makes a female more sexually "pure"?

Nope, I see no benefit in female circumcision at all, I think it's wrong. I said that already.
 

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Male circumcision: As a circumcised male, I have no problem with it. I don't feel mutilated or cheated. As far as I can tell, I'll still get pleasure from sex. I'm not in any kind of pain. I'm sure it's also easier to keep it clean this way. Oh, and by the way, all Biblical cleanliness laws have benefits. God commanded the Israelites to circumcise their males not just to seperate them from everyone else, but also for health reasons.

Female circumcision: I've been around enough foreigners to know how this works. Right now, there's a medical procedure in place that actually is circumcision. It's a surgury, done in sterile conditions, that removes the hood of the clitoris. Medically, all it does is slightly decrease their sensitivity, but doesn't, in any way, remove the woman's ability to derive pleasure and orgasm from sex. There's not really a reason for this procedure except that it works as a great comprimise for families with elders stuck in their ways. The woman gets a circumcision so granny doesn't go to her grave disowning her children and grandchildren, but the woman still gets pleasure from sex.

The other procedure which should be eliminated whenever possible is what they're talking about here. No sterility. No anesthesia. The instrument used is typically something crude, like scissors or a piece of glass. Since the clitoris is responsible for most of the pleasure women derive from sex, the procedure virtually eliminates the woman's pleasure from sexual activity. The point of the procedure shows the culture's lack of trust towards women, as the point is to deprive the woman of sexual pleasure, so that she will never have sex purely for pleasure, so that she will only have sex with her husband.

As for this case, I suspect the mother, don't lend much credance to the girl's testimony, and think whoever did it should be forever imprisoned.
 

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Uh - easy answer to circumcision. Uncircumcized wangs just LOOK funny.

Ill take your word for it. I cant say ive looked at enough wangs circumcized or not to determine that. nor do i ever want to
 

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All three of my boys are circumcized and I never really questioned the procedure at the time. Since I've never seen one not circumcized.

My brother in law from Finland asked why in the world we had it done since it isn't done at all there, he watched me change my son when he was young and commented on it. My sisters boy obviously didn't have the procedure.

I do agree with Nienna when she says there are proven health benefits to having it done. For one thing it has been said that the reason AIDS is so bad in Africa is because of non-circumcized men and the skin holding in bacteria. For that reason alone maybe it's a good idea.

There is NO health reason for female mutilation and it shouldn't be done, especially the way it seems to be done in parts of Africa with the girls being held down in unsterile situations.
 

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Good point. A mother should still have intimate knowledge of a child's "areas" when the child is that young. They require assistance in cleaning. No way she couldn't have noticed for a YEAR.

Tried to rep you for this.

Agreed, there is no way a mother wouldn't have noticed.
 

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