Feds demand gun store owner turn over customer list. He refuses

[Brain357]

You didn't ask that, you asked how long they had voting rights.

I answered.

On the other hand, you still haven't answered my question, which country meets your definition of long standing voting rights? Since you have said that Rome, which had voting rights for roughly 500 years, is not an example, my guess is you don't actually have one.

The United States, Japan, UK, Denmark, Sweden, Germany... Strangely none of them have had revolutions since people have had voting rights. And some of them don't even have guns all over the place. haha

Japan, which was ruled until WWII by the emperor, has a long standing history of voting rights, but Venezuela, which had its first general election the same year Japan did, doesn't.

Interesting, and extremely confusing.

Ok lets discuss Venezuela then. Name your revolutions.

 

[Brain357]

[MENTION=43262]Brain357[/MENTION]

This link to the original source works.

https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/Digitization/55878NCJRS.pdf

Now you seem to be avoiding it, and once again, migrating to another topic.

The link is still giving me problems, but I can see it's another report on rape. Your telling me in there somewhere it's going to say 2.5 million crimes were stopped by guns?

Since that link is giving you trouble, I'll give you another one --- the lowest estimate of crime prevention (via civilian firearms) by the Government:

https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles/165476.pdf

[quote[Most notable has been a much publicized estimate of 2.5 million DGUs, based on data from a 1994 telephone survey conducted by Florida State University professors Gary Kleck and Mark Gertz.

The 2.5 million figure has been picked up by the press and now appears regularly in newspaper articles, letters to the editor, editorials, and even Congressional Research Service briefs for public policymakers. The NSPOF survey is quite similar to the Kleck and Gertz instrument and provides a basis for replicating their estimate. Each of the respondents in the NSPOF was asked the question, "Within the past 12 months, have you yourself used a gun, even if it was not fired, to protect yourself or someone else, or for the protection of property at home, work, or elsewhere?
....

Forty-five respondents reported a defensive gun use in 1994 against a per-son (exhibit 7). Given the sampling weights, these respondents constitute 1.6 percent of the sample and represent 3.1 million adults.

In fact, just using common sense, if just 1% of American's had to use a firearm to DETER crime, which is a very reasonable assumption (if not higher), you would have more than 3 million crimes prevented each year.

Then the study reveals that almost all criminals flee/respect the gun, because only in a small fraction of those cases, do the guns actualyl have to be USED/SHOT/FIRED to prevent the crime from progressing.

Defensive uses are rare indeed, about 108,000 per year.

Even that 108,000 figure is between five and tens times higher than the amount of murders/crimes committed with firearms each year; bear in mind that this is the most anit-gun biased and underrepresentative of all of the DoJ studies LOLOLOLOL.

GET PWNED NOOB​

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpKZLlWKWK0]Warcraft II - Tides of Darkness - Human Victory - YouTube[/ame]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnzFNO4pij8]TF2 Domination sound - YouTube[/ame]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwrCEX1ElJ8]"Holy Shit" audio clip - YouTube[/ame]

Ok, so 108,000 defenses and 232,00 guns stolen each year from gun owners. I would say they are doing more damage than good.

 

[paperview]

Gotta love the video game "patriot" boy.

I think some of these guys think the live in a video game.

 

[The2ndAmendment]

The United States, Japan, UK, Denmark, Sweden, Germany... Strangely none of them have had revolutions since people have had voting rights. And some of them don't even have guns all over the place. haha

The United States had one,it's called the Battle of Athens, Tennessee. If the Whiskey Rebellion qualifies as an example of rebellion (since you keep citing it), then Athens Tennessee most certainly qualifies too.

How can Japan rebel when firearms are banned and virtually non-existent in civilian hands?

The UK has no firearms either. They cannot rebel --- as intended.

Can you name any episodes during Switzerland's history (since it's Constitution was ordained) in which the people were being so mistreated that they should have rebelled? Interestingly, they all have the right to bear arms (in some manner) there.

Germany? If Egypt and Ukraine don't' suffice as examples, then neither does Germany, since it's current Government has only come to power in the mid 1940's and early 1950's. Why do you violate your own definitions?

 

[The2ndAmendment]

Gotta love the video game "patriot" boy.

I think some of these guys think the live in a video game.

???

I linked some sound clips because you were entirely demolished. You cannot refute those crime statistics from the DoJ. LOLOLOLOLOL

We're done here kid.

 

[paperview]

Gotta love the video game "patriot" boy.

I think some of these guys think the live in a video game.

???

I linked some sound clips because you were entirely demolished. You cannot refute those crime statistics from the DoJ. LOLOLOLOLOL

We're done here kid.

You don't even know who you're arguing with.

I never said a thing about the crime statistics.

Brain never brought up the Whiskey Rebellion, I did - yet you thought it was him.

You thought it was him who brought up Rome, when it wasn't.

Is focus that hard for you?

 

[The2ndAmendment]

Ok, so 108,000 defenses and 232,00 guns stolen each year from gun owners. I would say they are doing more damage than good.

???

You just ignored the entire post.

Over 2+million crimes are DETERRED by a civilian simply drawing his/her firearm. In 108,000 of those 2 million cases (5%), the firearm actually has to be used.

Stop moving the goalposts.

You wanted a direct link to DoJ crime statistics showing the millions of crimes are prevented annually (by firearms), now you got it.


In soccer, we always said:

Good game.

 

[Brain357]

The United States, Japan, UK, Denmark, Sweden, Germany... Strangely none of them have had revolutions since people have had voting rights. And some of them don't even have guns all over the place. haha

The United States had one,it's called the Battle of Athens, Tennessee. If the Whiskey Rebellion qualifies as an example of rebellion (since you keep citing it), then Athens Tennessee most certainly qualifies too.

How can Japan rebel when firearms are banned and virtually non-existent in civilian hands?

The UK has no firearms either. They cannot rebel --- as intended.

Can you name any episodes during Switzerland's history (since it's Constitution was ordained) in which the people were being so mistreated that they should have rebelled? Interestingly, they all have the right to bear arms (in some manner) there.

Germany? If Egypt and Ukraine don't' suffice as examples, then neither does Germany, since it's current Government has only come to power in the mid 1940's and early 1950's. Why do you violate your own definitions?

Again you bring up a city. I shouldn't have to mention how dumb that is.

Those countries don't have to rebel, they still all have voting rights and even without guns to protect them. How crazy is that.

Ok Egypt just got rid of a dictator like in the last 5 years or whatever. Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union till what 1991? So your saying Germany has had voting rights only since 1991?

 

[The2ndAmendment]

Gotta love the video game "patriot" boy.

I think some of these guys think the live in a video game.

???

I linked some sound clips because you were entirely demolished. You cannot refute those crime statistics from the DoJ. LOLOLOLOLOL

We're done here kid.

You don't even know who you're arguing with.

I never said a thing about the crime statistics.

Brain never brought up the Whiskey Rebellion, I did - yet you thought it was him.

You thought it was him who brought up Rome, when it wasn't.

Is focus that hard for you?

You two are arguing as a team/pair, just as Quantum Windbag and I and The_T are arguing as a team/trio.

Unless you revoke his stance, it is assumed that your definitions and usage of words/phrases are congruent to his. How are we to know otherwise, since you never disagree with him, and are supporting him?

 

[Brain357]

Ok, so 108,000 defenses and 232,00 guns stolen each year from gun owners. I would say they are doing more damage than good.

???

You just ignored the entire post.

Over 2+million crimes are DETERRED by a civilian simply drawing his/her firearm. In 108,000 of those 2 million cases (5%), the firearm actually has to be used.

Stop moving the goalposts.

You wanted a direct link to DoJ crime statistics showing the millions of crimes are prevented annually (by firearms), now you got it.


In soccer, we always said:

Good game.

It says the NCVS data concludes 108,000 times per year. It mentions that other survey, but that one is easily debunked.

 

[Brain357]

???

I linked some sound clips because you were entirely demolished. You cannot refute those crime statistics from the DoJ. LOLOLOLOLOL

We're done here kid.

You don't even know who you're arguing with.

I never said a thing about the crime statistics.

Brain never brought up the Whiskey Rebellion, I did - yet you thought it was him.

You thought it was him who brought up Rome, when it wasn't.

Is focus that hard for you?

You two are arguing as a team/pair, just as Quantum Windbag and I and The_T are arguing as a team/trio.

Unless you revoke his stance, it is assumed that your definitions and usage of words/phrases are congruent to his. How are we to know otherwise, since you never disagree with him, and are supporting him?

You seem really confused. You better just stop now.

 

[paperview]

???

I linked some sound clips because you were entirely demolished. You cannot refute those crime statistics from the DoJ. LOLOLOLOLOL

We're done here kid.

You don't even know who you're arguing with.

I never said a thing about the crime statistics.

Brain never brought up the Whiskey Rebellion, I did - yet you thought it was him.

You thought it was him who brought up Rome, when it wasn't.

Is focus that hard for you?

You two are arguing as a team/pair, just as Quantum Windbag and I and The_T are arguing as a team/trio.

Unless you revoke his stance, it is assumed that your definitions and usage of words/phrases are congruent to his. How are we to know otherwise, since you never disagree with him, and are supporting him?

What the ****??

I'm on a board debating. I'm not part of a "team."

I don't have any interest in the crime statistic discussion, and me not participating doesn't mean squat.

You really do view the world through video game goggles, don't you?

 

[The2ndAmendment]

Ok, so 108,000 defenses and 232,00 guns stolen each year from gun owners. I would say they are doing more damage than good.

???

You just ignored the entire post.

Over 2+million crimes are DETERRED by a civilian simply drawing his/her firearm. In 108,000 of those 2 million cases (5%), the firearm actually has to be used.

Stop moving the goalposts.

You wanted a direct link to DoJ crime statistics showing the millions of crimes are prevented annually (by firearms), now you got it.


In soccer, we always said:

Good game.

It says the NCVS data concludes 108,000 times per year. It mentions that other survey, but that one is easily debunked.

It never debunks it... show us where they debunked it?

They only debunked the 46,000,000 claims in one of the survives, because there was a glaring hole in the scientific method used to obtain that obscene figure. Otherwise, they stand by those surveys and the methods used to obtain the results.

You can show us otherwise?

And remember, I gave you the "weakest link" (pun intended) on DoJ studies, since you seemingly cannot view the other (and very powerful and strong) links.

 

[The2ndAmendment]

Again you bring up a city. I shouldn't have to mention how dumb that is.

And you keep bringing up a city, called Pittsburgh, where the entire Whiskey Rebellion took place.

It could just as well been called: The Battle of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.

Whereas the Micminn COUNTY WAR, was called the Battle of Athens, Tennessee.

If you can keep referring to a battle that only involved a city and the small twelve mile radius about it, I can certainly refer to a battle that involved the ENTIRE COUNTY.

 

[The2ndAmendment]

I'm on a board debating. I'm not part of a "team."

Do you have any disagreements with [MENTION=43262]Brain357[/MENTION] ???

If not, then you are his ally in this debate, just as [MENTION=19484]The T[/MENTION] [MENTION=23420]Quantum Windbag[/MENTION] are my allies in this debate. Us three are suing the same terms, bound by the same definitions. It assumed that you two are also doing the same, otherwise we have a case Double-Speak.

Doublespeak is language that deliberately disguises, distorts, or reverses the meaning of words. It is intentional ambiguity in language or to actual inversions of meaning; doublespeak disguises the nature of the truth. Doublespeak is most closely associated with political language.

Not only are you a pair in this debate, but you're a dishonest pair ricocheting in opposite direction outside the boundaries of the discussion of this thread.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The United States, Japan, UK, Denmark, Sweden, Germany... Strangely none of them have had revolutions since people have had voting rights. And some of them don't even have guns all over the place. haha

Japan, which was ruled until WWII by the emperor, has a long standing history of voting rights, but Venezuela, which had its first general election the same year Japan did, doesn't.

Interesting, and extremely confusing.

Ok lets discuss Venezuela then. Name your revolutions.

Which one do you want to talk about, the Chavez revolution, or the current counter revolution that the news media in this country is ignoring?

 

[paperview]

Again you bring up a city. I shouldn't have to mention how dumb that is.

And you keep bringing up a city, called Pittsburgh, where the entire Whiskey Rebellion took place.

It could just as well been called: The Battle of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.

Whereas the Micminn COUNTY WAR, was called the Battle of Athens, Tennessee.

If you can keep referring to a battle that only involved a city and the small twelve mile radius about it, I can certainly refer to a battle that involved the ENTIRE COUNTY.

That's why the president at the time called out the National Guard in Ole Athens, huh?

Hell, it was just like that ... some 13,000 militia provided by the governors of a multitude of states...

...with the Roosevelt rolling in at the head of an army to suppress the insurgency...

<yertle voice> AhU--yup. </yertle voice>

 

[Brain357]

???

You just ignored the entire post.

Over 2+million crimes are DETERRED by a civilian simply drawing his/her firearm. In 108,000 of those 2 million cases (5%), the firearm actually has to be used.

Stop moving the goalposts.

You wanted a direct link to DoJ crime statistics showing the millions of crimes are prevented annually (by firearms), now you got it.


In soccer, we always said:

Good game.

It says the NCVS data concludes 108,000 times per year. It mentions that other survey, but that one is easily debunked.

It never debunks it... show us where they debunked it?

They only debunked the 46,000,000 claims in one of the survives, because there was a glaring hole in the scientific method used to obtain that obscene figure. Otherwise, they stand by those surveys and the methods used to obtain the results.

You can show us otherwise?

And remember, I gave you the "weakest link" (pun intended) on DoJ studies, since you seemingly cannot view the other (and very powerful and strong) links.

Sorry but the ridiculous 2.5 million number is easy to debunk. If that were true certainly I would know someone who had defended themselves with a gun. While I'm pretty old I still don't know anyone, and I know a lot of gun owners. My father went his whole life without ever using one for defense and he had a lot of them.

A closer look at DGU numbers

 

[Brain357]

Japan, which was ruled until WWII by the emperor, has a long standing history of voting rights, but Venezuela, which had its first general election the same year Japan did, doesn't.

Interesting, and extremely confusing.

Ok lets discuss Venezuela then. Name your revolutions.

Which one do you want to talk about, the Chavez revolution, or the current counter revolution that the news media in this country is ignoring?

The one where they lost their voting rights and became ruled by tyranny. Which one was that?

 

[paperview]

I'm on a board debating. I'm not part of a "team."

Do you have any disagreements with [MENTION=43262]Brain357[/MENTION] ???

If not, then you are his ally in this debate, just as [MENTION=19484]The T[/MENTION] [MENTION=23420]Quantum Windbag[/MENTION] are my allies in this debate. Us three are suing the same terms, bound by the same definitions. It assumed that you two are also doing the same, otherwise we have a case Double-Speak.

Doublespeak is language that deliberately disguises, distorts, or reverses the meaning of words. It is intentional ambiguity in language or to actual inversions of meaning; doublespeak disguises the nature of the truth. Doublespeak is most closely associated with political language.

Not only are you a pair in this debate, but you're a dishonest pair ricocheting in opposite direction outside the boundaries of the discussion of this thread.

You're in good brain-damaged company, that's for sure. If you guys want to semantically jerk each other off, be my guest.

I speak for myself. So do the other normal posters here.