Fed up with the two parties, a new group forms

[iamwhatiseem]

I don't think the two parties are out of touch with their individual bases. The problem is that the bases are behaving in such a way as to be destructive to both our political process and the country.

A strong, viable third party might at least put an end to this incredibly binary, all-or-nothing, us against them, hateful, angry behavior that has not only damaged our politics, but has now seeped into our everyday culture. So I'm not actually talking about the individual issues.

This certainly wouldn't be a panacea, and I know that. But I honestly can't think of anything else that might at least partially put an end to this madness.
.

yep.
Look at what the media is doing to Trump.
You would think this man was Mao Zedong. They are going to spend the next four years using every tool they have to convince Americans to never again go against the established Party system.
Trump won because of a RARITY.
Just enough forgotten-regular everyday people who do what they are supposed to do everyday...and have gotten the shaft for 20 years now...just enough of them said - ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.
It didn't matter if it was PeeWee Herman who ran...they refused to vote AGAIN for a bought and paid for establishment candidate like Hillary Clinton.
And now, the media and the Democrats will use every means they have to try and convince people this was a mistake.

 

[Manonthestreet]

I don't think the two parties are out of touch with their individual bases. The problem is that the bases are behaving in such a way as to be destructive to both our political process and the country.

A strong, viable third party might at least put an end to this incredibly binary, all-or-nothing, us against them, hateful, angry behavior that has not only damaged our politics, but has now seeped into our everyday culture. So I'm not actually talking about the individual issues.

This certainly wouldn't be a panacea, and I know that. But I honestly can't think of anything else that might at least partially put an end to this madness.
.

yep.
Look at what the media is doing to Trump.
You would think this man was Mao Zedong. They are going to spend the next four years using every tool they have to convince Americans to never again go against the established Party system.
Trump won because of a RARITY.
Just enough forgotten-regular everyday people who do what they are supposed to do everyday...and have gotten the shaft for 20 years now...just enough of them said - ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.
It didn't matter if it was PeeWee Herman who ran...they refused to vote AGAIN for a bought and paid for establishment candidate like Hillary Clinton.
And now, the media and the Democrats will use every means they have to try and convince people this was a mistake.

And a warning to any other candidate who might wish to follow in his footsteps

 

[imawhosure]

Fed up with the 2 parties, a group of centrists rises up

For now, it's most likely just wishful thinking. It has been tried a few times recently and fell on its face.

But you never know when something is going to catch on. So, fingers crossed.

Surely there are more and more people who are sick and tired of this current mess, and the people causing it.
.

You are fighting a mental plague.
Americans have a notorious problem of simply not caring.
We are selfish. Easily distracted, and even more easily entertained. We are like magpies, constantly filling our lives with the next shiny object. Paying little to no attention to looming and glaring problems all around us.
Trying to gather together a large section of the population to actually pay attention...and stop the petty, meaningless in fighting and realize we are nothing but little pawns used against each other by the elites while they steal from us.
We are a plutocratic corporatocracy. Big money and big business control absolutely everything. They get all the breaks. They get all the laws written for their favor. And all they have to do is provide simple entertainment and stir up the pot of meaningless controversy and we just keep right on ignoring them.
This forum is a prime A1 example of just that.

Yeah, can't argue. I tend to look at most of our problems as being culturally based, and this is certainly no exception.

In fact, it may be the biggest and most dangerous (and predictable!) manifestation of what you describe.
.

My good man, when you have over 50% of the people agreeing with a position, then what position do you take? And if you take those positions too, then you are splitting the vote (regardless of Democrat/Republican) and putting the minority position in power! Is it not better to retake the political parties from those running it today? Is it not better to get 75% of what you want instead of 0?

This is why I am a registered independent. I know it may be hard to believe, but I have actually voted for some Democrats. They were the better choice! Our political parties should NOT be funding our reps or senators, it should all be local contributions. As soon as it becomes PARTY, they lose their autonomy and must toe the party line. We must allow them independence so they can vote either way, for a dem, or repub bill.

Let me put it another way-------------> in any election, why would I vote against even 50% of what I believe, if I know my vote will get me 0% of what I believe by allowing the person in that is totally against me? That is why a concerted effort by all of us to retake our parties is so critical.

QUESTION-----------> Forget you don't like Trump and ask this---------> If Trump would have run as a 3rd party candidate against Hillary and Kasich, would he have won? Would Kasich have won?

Now, what if Hillary ran as a 3rd party against Biden and Trump, then what?

See my point!

It is up to us to retake our political parties and turn them around. Hard? Yes! But to just create another entity that agree with us will insure the other side wins every time. Now, if not under these circumstances, that might be ok, but no matter your position on issues, do you have long enough to build a base and turn the tide before this country collapses? No matter your position, I do not think you would say, "yes, we have enough time!"

Time for elbow grease Mac, it really is! You give us a JFK clone, and we will give you a Coolidge clone. Now we are talking-) Americans can't lose!

 

[Mac1958]

They are going to spend the next four years using every tool they have to convince Americans to never again go against the established Party system.

I think that's true, and important point.

Yes, Trump does represent the real outsider breaking through the "establishment" wall in DC, and I'm all for that, but it could pretty easily end up that he'll be the wrong guy to have done that. If he fails, and especially if this presidency crashes and burns, he could wreck the chances for other outsiders for the foreseeable future.

But really, that's been the danger all along, since the day he announced. His supporters have celebrated (or at least pretended to celebrate) his various foibles, but it may turn out that he's setting a bad precedent.
.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Fed up with the 2 parties, a group of centrists rises up

For now, it's most likely just wishful thinking. It has been tried a few times recently and fell on its face.

But you never know when something is going to catch on. So, fingers crossed.

Surely there are more and more people who are sick and tired of this current mess, and the people causing it.
.

We're watching what would happen if an outsider won the white house right now.
A third party would get the same treatment.

 

[Mac1958]

Fed up with the 2 parties, a group of centrists rises up

For now, it's most likely just wishful thinking. It has been tried a few times recently and fell on its face.

But you never know when something is going to catch on. So, fingers crossed.

Surely there are more and more people who are sick and tired of this current mess, and the people causing it.
.

You are fighting a mental plague.
Americans have a notorious problem of simply not caring.
We are selfish. Easily distracted, and even more easily entertained. We are like magpies, constantly filling our lives with the next shiny object. Paying little to no attention to looming and glaring problems all around us.
Trying to gather together a large section of the population to actually pay attention...and stop the petty, meaningless in fighting and realize we are nothing but little pawns used against each other by the elites while they steal from us.
We are a plutocratic corporatocracy. Big money and big business control absolutely everything. They get all the breaks. They get all the laws written for their favor. And all they have to do is provide simple entertainment and stir up the pot of meaningless controversy and we just keep right on ignoring them.
This forum is a prime A1 example of just that.

Yeah, can't argue. I tend to look at most of our problems as being culturally based, and this is certainly no exception.

In fact, it may be the biggest and most dangerous (and predictable!) manifestation of what you describe.
.

My good man, when you have over 50% of the people agreeing with a position, then what position do you take? And if you take those positions too, then you are splitting the vote (regardless of Democrat/Republican) and putting the minority position in power! Is it not better to retake the political parties from those running it today? Is it not better to get 75% of what you want instead of 0?

This is why I am a registered independent. I know it may be hard to believe, but I have actually voted for some Democrats. They were the better choice! Our political parties should NOT be funding our reps or senators, it should all be local contributions. As soon as it becomes PARTY, they lose their autonomy and must toe the party line. We must allow them independence so they can vote either way, for a dem, or repub bill.

Let me put it another way-------------> in any election, why would I vote against even 50% of what I believe, if I know my vote will get me 0% of what I believe by allowing the person in that is totally against me? That is why a concerted effort by all of us to retake our parties is so critical.

QUESTION-----------> Forget you don't like Trump and ask this---------> If Trump would have run as a 3rd party candidate against Hillary and Kasich, would he have won? Would Kasich have won?

Now, what if Hillary ran as a 3rd party against Biden and Trump, then what?

See my point!

It is up to us to retake our political parties and turn them around. Hard? Yes! But to just create another entity that agree with us will insure the other side wins every time. Now, if not under these circumstances, that might be ok, but no matter your position on issues, do you have long enough to build a base and turn the tide before this country collapses? No matter your position, I do not think you would say, "yes, we have enough time!"

Time for elbow grease Mac, it really is! You give us a JFK clone, and we will give you a Coolidge clone. Now we are talking-) Americans can't lose!

I don't know what "retaking our parties" would look like, how we could get there from here. Would a real statesman, a person who could/would reach across party lines for the best ideas from each, even be nominated right now? No way, because the "base" in each party would see to their destruction.

So let's go with your way: Assuming we remain this two-party-only system (certainly most likely), what can be done within the parties to end this increasingly binary political mess?

Or, do you even feel that we have a problem?
.

 

[Mac1958]

Fed up with the 2 parties, a group of centrists rises up

For now, it's most likely just wishful thinking. It has been tried a few times recently and fell on its face.

But you never know when something is going to catch on. So, fingers crossed.

Surely there are more and more people who are sick and tired of this current mess, and the people causing it.
.

We're watching what would happen if an outsider won the white house right now.
A third party would get the same treatment.

I think it would depend on the outsider. As I mentioned above, this was the wrong person.
.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

This is a good idea, but I have my doubts it will be successful. The American sheeple are too ignorant and lacking in intelligence to be able to think for themselves and not vote based on spoon fed propaganda given to them by their right and left wing masters.

 

[rhodescholar]

Fed up with the 2 parties, a group of centrists rises up

For now, it's most likely just wishful thinking. It has been tried a few times recently and fell on its face.

But you never know when something is going to catch on. So, fingers crossed.

Surely there are more and more people who are sick and tired of this current mess, and the people causing it.
.

The current 2-party corporate oligopoly is a train wreck, and I've been calling for additional parties to be added since the 1970s. The national democratic party is a treasonous abomination that should be eradicated with its leadership hanged, and the corporate wing of the republican excised, with corporate donations and lobbying made illegal.

A multi-party system, perhaps even a parliamentary one, would be VASTLY superior to the crap that exists now, where the choice is between a piece of shit party that supports an illegal alien invasion and the related confiscation of my tax dollars, and a corporate one whose existence has been re-directed to serve corporate america, neither is a sane, legitimate option. The vast middle of the country has no voice, with an uprising that will be quite ugly in the near future if the system is not changed. Trump was merely the tip of the spear.

 

[Mac1958]

This is a good idea, but I have my doubts it will be successful. The American sheeple are too ignorant and lacking in intelligence to be able to think for themselves and not vote based on spoon fed propaganda given to them by their right and left wing masters.

I think of it as intellectual laziness. We could do better, but we just don't, and our culture enables that.
.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

They are going to spend the next four years using every tool they have to convince Americans to never again go against the established Party system.

I think that's true, and important point.

Yes, Trump does represent the real outsider breaking through the "establishment" wall in DC, and I'm all for that, but it could pretty easily end up that he'll be the wrong guy to have done that. If he fails, and especially if this presidency crashes and burns, he could wreck the chances for other outsiders for the foreseeable future.

But really, that's been the danger all along, since the day he announced. His supporters have celebrated (or at least pretended to celebrate) his various foibles, but it may turn out that he's setting a bad precedent.
.

Don't I know it.
I have been preaching to people - Trump is irrelevant. He could have been Pee Wee Herman...Trump is not WHO they voted for. Trump is what they voted AGAINST.
But the media is not going to allow that truth to sink in. And neither is the establishment.
They will spend every single day - 24 hours a day, for the next four years trying to make Trump look like Mao Zedong.
They will try and convince you that everything he wants to do will create calamity and mayhem like never before.
Never do this again. Always stick with us. We are the voice of reason.
And if they win..... it will be back to the status quo...the rich will get even richer. Jobs will continue to pour out of America, corporations will get even bigger. And we, the fools that we are...will applaud while they do it.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Fed up with the 2 parties, a group of centrists rises up

For now, it's most likely just wishful thinking. It has been tried a few times recently and fell on its face.

But you never know when something is going to catch on. So, fingers crossed.

Surely there are more and more people who are sick and tired of this current mess, and the people causing it.
.

We're watching what would happen if an outsider won the white house right now.
A third party would get the same treatment.

I think it would depend on the outsider. As I mentioned above, this was the wrong person.
.

I dont think it would matter.
It would still expose the cozy nature of the establishment and the shenanigans they've been up to.

 

[Mac1958]

They are going to spend the next four years using every tool they have to convince Americans to never again go against the established Party system.

I think that's true, and important point.

Yes, Trump does represent the real outsider breaking through the "establishment" wall in DC, and I'm all for that, but it could pretty easily end up that he'll be the wrong guy to have done that. If he fails, and especially if this presidency crashes and burns, he could wreck the chances for other outsiders for the foreseeable future.

But really, that's been the danger all along, since the day he announced. His supporters have celebrated (or at least pretended to celebrate) his various foibles, but it may turn out that he's setting a bad precedent.
.

Don't I know it.
I have been preaching to people - Trump is irrelevant. He could have been Pee Wee Herman...Trump is not WHO they voted for. Trump is what they voted AGAINST.
But the media is not going to allow that truth to sink in. And neither is the establishment.
They will spend every single day - 24 hours a day, for the next four years trying to make Trump look like Mao Zedong.
They will try and convince you that everything he wants to do will create calamity and mayhem like never before.
Never do this again. Always stick with us. We are the voice of reason.
And if they win..... it will be back to the status quo...the rich will get even richer. Jobs will continue to pour out of America, corporations will get even bigger. And we, the fools that we are...will applaud while they do it.

Well, the media is its own animal. I don't know that Trump's status as an outsider is an issue for them (and I still have friends in it from my days in it), but with his behaviors, those of the people who support him, and his over-the-top attacks on them, they've obviously eschewed even a pretense of objectivity.

I'd be interested to see how they covered a strong, viable third party. That would probably tell us more about their feelings on the "establishment".
.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

They are going to spend the next four years using every tool they have to convince Americans to never again go against the established Party system.

I think that's true, and important point.

Yes, Trump does represent the real outsider breaking through the "establishment" wall in DC, and I'm all for that, but it could pretty easily end up that he'll be the wrong guy to have done that. If he fails, and especially if this presidency crashes and burns, he could wreck the chances for other outsiders for the foreseeable future.

But really, that's been the danger all along, since the day he announced. His supporters have celebrated (or at least pretended to celebrate) his various foibles, but it may turn out that he's setting a bad precedent.
.

Don't I know it.
I have been preaching to people - Trump is irrelevant. He could have been Pee Wee Herman...Trump is not WHO they voted for. Trump is what they voted AGAINST.
But the media is not going to allow that truth to sink in. And neither is the establishment.
They will spend every single day - 24 hours a day, for the next four years trying to make Trump look like Mao Zedong.
They will try and convince you that everything he wants to do will create calamity and mayhem like never before.
Never do this again. Always stick with us. We are the voice of reason.
And if they win..... it will be back to the status quo...the rich will get even richer. Jobs will continue to pour out of America, corporations will get even bigger. And we, the fools that we are...will applaud while they do it.

Well, the media is its own animal. I don't know that Trump's status as an outsider is an issue for them (and I still have friends in it from my days in it), but with his behaviors, those of the people who support him, and his over-the-top attacks on them, they've obviously eschewed even a pretense of objectivity.

I'd be interested to see how they covered a strong, viable third party. That would probably tell us more about their feelings on the "establishment".
.

Are you old enough to remember Ross Perot?

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

They are going to spend the next four years using every tool they have to convince Americans to never again go against the established Party system.

I think that's true, and important point.

Yes, Trump does represent the real outsider breaking through the "establishment" wall in DC, and I'm all for that, but it could pretty easily end up that he'll be the wrong guy to have done that. If he fails, and especially if this presidency crashes and burns, he could wreck the chances for other outsiders for the foreseeable future.

But really, that's been the danger all along, since the day he announced. His supporters have celebrated (or at least pretended to celebrate) his various foibles, but it may turn out that he's setting a bad precedent.
.

Don't I know it.
I have been preaching to people - Trump is irrelevant. He could have been Pee Wee Herman...Trump is not WHO they voted for. Trump is what they voted AGAINST.
But the media is not going to allow that truth to sink in. And neither is the establishment.
They will spend every single day - 24 hours a day, for the next four years trying to make Trump look like Mao Zedong.
They will try and convince you that everything he wants to do will create calamity and mayhem like never before.
Never do this again. Always stick with us. We are the voice of reason.
And if they win..... it will be back to the status quo...the rich will get even richer. Jobs will continue to pour out of America, corporations will get even bigger. And we, the fools that we are...will applaud while they do it.

Well, the media is its own animal. I don't know that Trump's status as an outsider is an issue for them (and I still have friends in it from my days in it), but with his behaviors, those of the people who support him, and his over-the-top attacks on them, they've obviously eschewed even a pretense of objectivity.

I'd be interested to see how they covered a strong, viable third party. That would probably tell us more about their feelings on the "establishment".
.

Are you old enough to remember Ross Perot?

The establishment has the hooks in deep and they wont go quietly no matter who the outsider may be.

 

[Mac1958]

They are going to spend the next four years using every tool they have to convince Americans to never again go against the established Party system.

I think that's true, and important point.

Yes, Trump does represent the real outsider breaking through the "establishment" wall in DC, and I'm all for that, but it could pretty easily end up that he'll be the wrong guy to have done that. If he fails, and especially if this presidency crashes and burns, he could wreck the chances for other outsiders for the foreseeable future.

But really, that's been the danger all along, since the day he announced. His supporters have celebrated (or at least pretended to celebrate) his various foibles, but it may turn out that he's setting a bad precedent.
.

Don't I know it.
I have been preaching to people - Trump is irrelevant. He could have been Pee Wee Herman...Trump is not WHO they voted for. Trump is what they voted AGAINST.
But the media is not going to allow that truth to sink in. And neither is the establishment.
They will spend every single day - 24 hours a day, for the next four years trying to make Trump look like Mao Zedong.
They will try and convince you that everything he wants to do will create calamity and mayhem like never before.
Never do this again. Always stick with us. We are the voice of reason.
And if they win..... it will be back to the status quo...the rich will get even richer. Jobs will continue to pour out of America, corporations will get even bigger. And we, the fools that we are...will applaud while they do it.

Well, the media is its own animal. I don't know that Trump's status as an outsider is an issue for them (and I still have friends in it from my days in it), but with his behaviors, those of the people who support him, and his over-the-top attacks on them, they've obviously eschewed even a pretense of objectivity.

I'd be interested to see how they covered a strong, viable third party. That would probably tell us more about their feelings on the "establishment".
.

Are you old enough to remember Ross Perot?

Sure. But he wasn't a party, he was one guy. And he was a little loopy in his own right.
.

 

[debbiedowner]

Ya' jus' gots ta pick the lesser of two weevils is all.

I was surprised Trump got picked.

But at the same time I was glad Hillary did NOT get picked.

Hillary picks on guns too much.

She and Willie hate military looking black guns the most.

They should both just STFU and get their own ones.

And a few hi cap mags for them too.

You have a point, but under obama and probably under any dem the guns sales and stocks sky rocked, now they are dropping alot.

 

[Avatar4321]

Unless they are for following the Constitution and limiting the federal government with federalism I want nothing to do with them.

 

[debbiedowner]

They are going to spend the next four years using every tool they have to convince Americans to never again go against the established Party system.

I think that's true, and important point.

Yes, Trump does represent the real outsider breaking through the "establishment" wall in DC, and I'm all for that, but it could pretty easily end up that he'll be the wrong guy to have done that. If he fails, and especially if this presidency crashes and burns, he could wreck the chances for other outsiders for the foreseeable future.

But really, that's been the danger all along, since the day he announced. His supporters have celebrated (or at least pretended to celebrate) his various foibles, but it may turn out that he's setting a bad precedent.
.

Don't I know it.
I have been preaching to people - Trump is irrelevant. He could have been Pee Wee Herman...Trump is not WHO they voted for. Trump is what they voted AGAINST.
But the media is not going to allow that truth to sink in. And neither is the establishment.
They will spend every single day - 24 hours a day, for the next four years trying to make Trump look like Mao Zedong.
They will try and convince you that everything he wants to do will create calamity and mayhem like never before.
Never do this again. Always stick with us. We are the voice of reason.
And if they win..... it will be back to the status quo...the rich will get even richer. Jobs will continue to pour out of America, corporations will get even bigger. And we, the fools that we are...will applaud while they do it.

Well, the media is its own animal. I don't know that Trump's status as an outsider is an issue for them (and I still have friends in it from my days in it), but with his behaviors, those of the people who support him, and his over-the-top attacks on them, they've obviously eschewed even a pretense of objectivity.

I'd be interested to see how they covered a strong, viable third party. That would probably tell us more about their feelings on the "establishment".
.

Are you old enough to remember Ross Perot?

Sure. But he wasn't a party, he was one guy. And he was a little loopy in his own right.
.

Trump is looking more like a party of one with a few fruit loops surrounding him.

 

[Mac1958]

I think that's true, and important point.

Yes, Trump does represent the real outsider breaking through the "establishment" wall in DC, and I'm all for that, but it could pretty easily end up that he'll be the wrong guy to have done that. If he fails, and especially if this presidency crashes and burns, he could wreck the chances for other outsiders for the foreseeable future.

But really, that's been the danger all along, since the day he announced. His supporters have celebrated (or at least pretended to celebrate) his various foibles, but it may turn out that he's setting a bad precedent.
.

Don't I know it.
I have been preaching to people - Trump is irrelevant. He could have been Pee Wee Herman...Trump is not WHO they voted for. Trump is what they voted AGAINST.
But the media is not going to allow that truth to sink in. And neither is the establishment.
They will spend every single day - 24 hours a day, for the next four years trying to make Trump look like Mao Zedong.
They will try and convince you that everything he wants to do will create calamity and mayhem like never before.
Never do this again. Always stick with us. We are the voice of reason.
And if they win..... it will be back to the status quo...the rich will get even richer. Jobs will continue to pour out of America, corporations will get even bigger. And we, the fools that we are...will applaud while they do it.

Well, the media is its own animal. I don't know that Trump's status as an outsider is an issue for them (and I still have friends in it from my days in it), but with his behaviors, those of the people who support him, and his over-the-top attacks on them, they've obviously eschewed even a pretense of objectivity.

I'd be interested to see how they covered a strong, viable third party. That would probably tell us more about their feelings on the "establishment".
.

Are you old enough to remember Ross Perot?

Sure. But he wasn't a party, he was one guy. And he was a little loopy in his own right.
.

Trump is looking more like a party of one with a few fruit loops surrounding him.

The question will be whether he damages chances for other "outsiders" in the future.
.