CDZ Fear and guns....a discussion.

[theliq]

You do??? So are you from our Great Country, The United States where we have constitutionally guaranteed rights?

I live in the Great Country of Australia

Ah the former prison colony no wonder they ban guns you're all the descended from criminals

Oh, that's true, isn't it? I had forgotten about that little factoid. Explains a lot. Lol.

Trouble IS that prior to TRANSPORTING PEOPLE TO AUSTRALIA.....THEY WERE SENT FOR YEARS TO AMERICA......see how the liq,educates Dumb Ass Americans.......You need to put your BRAIN into GEAR before OPENING THAT MOUTH OF YOURS........Don't Ya

But, you cannot even spell or use correct grammar? That tells me you are an extremely uneducated individual. Sorry about that. That is probably something you could talk about with your Australian friends. Your horrible school system.

That's really funny,considering I employ 300+ people on three continents......what do you do ?

 

[theliq]

Ah the former prison colony no wonder they ban guns you're all the descended from criminals

Yeah right. Britain Sent Loads Of Convicts To America, Not Just Australia

Yeah but we're not as inbred as you blokes because unlike you we allowed a huge influx of immigrants into our country early on

How wrong you are......

 

[ChrisL]

I live in the Great Country of Australia

Ah the former prison colony no wonder they ban guns you're all the descended from criminals

Oh, that's true, isn't it? I had forgotten about that little factoid. Explains a lot. Lol.

Trouble IS that prior to TRANSPORTING PEOPLE TO AUSTRALIA.....THEY WERE SENT FOR YEARS TO AMERICA......see how the liq,educates Dumb Ass Americans.......You need to put your BRAIN into GEAR before OPENING THAT MOUTH OF YOURS........Don't Ya

But, you cannot even spell or use correct grammar? That tells me you are an extremely uneducated individual. Sorry about that. That is probably something you could talk about with your Australian friends. Your horrible school system.

That's really funny,considering I employ 300+ people on three continents......what do you do ?

Sure you do. Lol. So do I! Imagine that! Please, you aren't fooling anyone except for maybe yourself. Your silly claims mean nothing here. Now, stick to the topic, try to control yourself and maybe you won't be put on my ignore list, never to be seen or heard from again.

 

[theliq]

Ah the former prison colony no wonder they ban guns you're all the descended from criminals

Yeah right. Britain Sent Loads Of Convicts To America, Not Just Australia

Yeah but we're not as inbred as you blokes because unlike you we allowed a huge influx of immigrants into our country early on

Lol. That explains why everyone I've ever met from Australia seemed so . . . strange.

Strange= Forward Thinking.......keep living in the past "America is Great" yeah,with your incredible debt,you should be living in mud huts,like other countries with such a massive debt ratio........How do you get away with it!!!!!!

 

[ChrisL]

Ah the former prison colony no wonder they ban guns you're all the descended from criminals

Yeah right. Britain Sent Loads Of Convicts To America, Not Just Australia

Yeah but we're not as inbred as you blokes because unlike you we allowed a huge influx of immigrants into our country early on

Lol. That explains why everyone I've ever met from Australia seemed so . . . strange.

Strange= Forward Thinking.......keep living in the past "America is Great" yeah,with your incredible debt,you should be living in mud huts,like other countries with such a massive debt ratio........How do you get away with it!!!!!!

America is great. That's why you are always posting about America and Americans! If you were so great, people would be posting about you and your country, but they aren't. The "Australia forum" is pretty . . . well inactive. Why? Because America is a world power and we play a huge and important role in the world, one I would like to see us give a little on, but it is what it is.

 

[ChrisL]

Ah the former prison colony no wonder they ban guns you're all the descended from criminals

Yeah right. Britain Sent Loads Of Convicts To America, Not Just Australia

Yeah but we're not as inbred as you blokes because unlike you we allowed a huge influx of immigrants into our country early on

Lol. That explains why everyone I've ever met from Australia seemed so . . . strange.

Strange= Forward Thinking.......keep living in the past "America is Great" yeah,with your incredible debt,you should be living in mud huts,like other countries with such a massive debt ratio........How do you get away with it!!!!!!

America is NOT broke if that is what you think. Lol. Do you realize how much money our government pulls in monthly from just us taxpayers?????

 

[ChrisL]

 

[Elvis Obama]

You have cited the CDC as a source authority and then denied that they do valid research. You can't have it both ways. That's dishonest.

Sorry, but my side has nothing to be dishonest about. That is all on your side and your argument. You use dishonesty. I don't have to do that. All the facts are on my side.

There is only one fact. 30,000 people a year die by gun violence. You do not believe that one single person on this earth, who is concerned with this fact, is not a "guuuun grabber!".

The problem is not guns, it is morally bankrupt paranoiacs who display a complete indifference to human life. What are you willing to do to reduce gun deaths?

I do not believe you. That is correct. Lol. Do I trust you? Hell no!

The problem is not the law-abiding citizens who have never raised a weapon to another person. Whether or not YOU feel they are paranoid is really quite irrelevant. You are not qualified to make a diagnosis.

What we DO know is that criminals are not going to stop using guns because you make a law. Right?

I've proposed no laws. I have proposed one thing, and one thing only. The prevention of unnecessary death. I believe that to be the CDC's mission. You do not. There is not one valid argument you can advance to support such paranoid beliefs. You have therefore not tried to justify your extremist and groundless views. The CDC and I are serious about preventing death. You are not. You don't want to do ANYTHING to prevent these tragic deaths. Shame on you.

Lol. The prevention of unnecessary death??? And what do you propose to do that? Ban swimming pools right?

Let the experts do their job. There is no reason to believe that the same strategies which have reduced automotive deaths and smoking related deaths will not work for gun deaths. There is no shame in trying and failing, there is a great deal of shame in failing to try.

 

[2aguy]

Sorry, but my side has nothing to be dishonest about. That is all on your side and your argument. You use dishonesty. I don't have to do that. All the facts are on my side.

There is only one fact. 30,000 people a year die by gun violence. You do not believe that one single person on this earth, who is concerned with this fact, is not a "guuuun grabber!".

The problem is not guns, it is morally bankrupt paranoiacs who display a complete indifference to human life. What are you willing to do to reduce gun deaths?

I do not believe you. That is correct. Lol. Do I trust you? Hell no!

The problem is not the law-abiding citizens who have never raised a weapon to another person. Whether or not YOU feel they are paranoid is really quite irrelevant. You are not qualified to make a diagnosis.

What we DO know is that criminals are not going to stop using guns because you make a law. Right?

I've proposed no laws. I have proposed one thing, and one thing only. The prevention of unnecessary death. I believe that to be the CDC's mission. You do not. There is not one valid argument you can advance to support such paranoid beliefs. You have therefore not tried to justify your extremist and groundless views. The CDC and I are serious about preventing death. You are not. You don't want to do ANYTHING to prevent these tragic deaths. Shame on you.

Lol. The prevention of unnecessary death??? And what do you propose to do that? Ban swimming pools right?

Let the experts do their job. There is no reason to believe that the same strategies which have reduced automotive deaths and smoking related deaths will not work for gun deaths. There is no shame in trying and failing, there is a great deal of shame in failing to try.

Except.....8,124 gun deaths are by violent people intentionally taking the lives of other people for personal gain.....you mean except for that of course........?

 

[theliq]

Ah the former prison colony no wonder they ban guns you're all the descended from criminals

Oh, that's true, isn't it? I had forgotten about that little factoid. Explains a lot. Lol.

Trouble IS that prior to TRANSPORTING PEOPLE TO AUSTRALIA.....THEY WERE SENT FOR YEARS TO AMERICA......see how the liq,educates Dumb Ass Americans.......You need to put your BRAIN into GEAR before OPENING THAT MOUTH OF YOURS........Don't Ya

But, you cannot even spell or use correct grammar? That tells me you are an extremely uneducated individual. Sorry about that. That is probably something you could talk about with your Australian friends. Your horrible school system.

That's really funny,considering I employ 300+ people on three continents......what do you do ?

Sure you do. Lol. So do I! Imagine that! Please, you aren't fooling anyone except for maybe yourself. Your silly claims mean nothing here. Now, stick to the topic, try to control yourself and maybe you won't be put on my ignore list, never to be seen or heard from again.

And therein lies your problem,you just don't create anything anymore......just farm off work to exploit workers in Asia and the Americas.......a little statistic for you "In 1964 ..97% of all clothing purchased by Americans was made in America(Great),Today 97% of all clothing purchased by Americans is made overseas(Not Great)." I could go on but it pretty much shows,how Americans do not support "Made in America".........I find it hard to equate seeing obviously Proud Americans waving the Flag but really do not support American business.so what are you left with ....cheap shoddy poor quality items.....The sad thing is that the American workforce and the products are outstanding,we buy product from America because its world best,made by educated dedicated workers who are proud of what they do......we can buy cheap from China but then we too are worlds best and only want the best for our clients worldwide,not everyone wants cheap because in the long run cheap is DEARER.

We have a good educational system,free to all,we have a good health system,free to all,we have good aged and unemployment system,free to all,we pay high wages to all..except these Macca (McDonalds and all) who pay crappy American wages.......You could learn much from us.......Question..What have you done with all the money gleaned in taxes over the decades........you certainly don't look after the less able in your society now do you.....any society can only be measured by how the less fortunate are cared for,in that Australia is head and shoulders above America.....Always........steven ps back to the topic,by being so myopic,some Americans seem frightened of everything they do not understand......I believe it is because you are in general a violent society,one other statistic that I invite you to muse over is:- Since the end of the American Civil War,America has been at War with someone!!!!!!!!!This is startling but maybe a reason that a lot of Americans have a siege mentality AND THINK THAT OTHER PEOPLE DON'T LIKE YOU..............which is complete Bull......mind you a lot of your foreign policy today and in the past has a lot to be desired........you are too rash to go in all guns blazing but really never have an exit stratedgy sic.........thus leaving voids that the likes of ISIS,those maniacs to fill and prosper to the detriment of us all.there is much chaos in the world Chris L and for me and you(you and I) to "Tit for Tat" argue ad-nausium is silly......We are actually on the same side.........At this point I wish to apologize to you for being so rude and uncouth to you over the past posts........Pride is not exclusive to Americans only.steven

 

[2aguy]

Oh, that's true, isn't it? I had forgotten about that little factoid. Explains a lot. Lol.

Trouble IS that prior to TRANSPORTING PEOPLE TO AUSTRALIA.....THEY WERE SENT FOR YEARS TO AMERICA......see how the liq,educates Dumb Ass Americans.......You need to put your BRAIN into GEAR before OPENING THAT MOUTH OF YOURS........Don't Ya

But, you cannot even spell or use correct grammar? That tells me you are an extremely uneducated individual. Sorry about that. That is probably something you could talk about with your Australian friends. Your horrible school system.

That's really funny,considering I employ 300+ people on three continents......what do you do ?

Sure you do. Lol. So do I! Imagine that! Please, you aren't fooling anyone except for maybe yourself. Your silly claims mean nothing here. Now, stick to the topic, try to control yourself and maybe you won't be put on my ignore list, never to be seen or heard from again.

And therein lies your problem,you just don't create anything anymore......just farm off work to exploit workers in Asia and the Americas.......a little statistic for you "In 1964 ..97% of all clothing purchased by Americans was made in America(Great),Today 97% of all clothing purchased by Americans is made overseas(Not Great)." I could go on but it pretty much shows,how Americans do not support "Made in America".........I find it hard to equate seeing obviously Proud Americans waving the Flag but really do not support American business.so what are you left with ....cheap shoddy poor quality items.....The sad thing is that the American workforce and the products are outstanding,we buy product from America because its world best,made by educated dedicated workers who are proud of what they do......we can buy cheap from China but then we to are worlds best and only want the best for our clients worldwide,not everyone wants cheap because in the long run cheap is DEARER.

We have a good educational system,free to all,we have a good health system,free to all,we have good aged and unemployment system,free to all,we pay high wages to all..except these Macca (McDonalds and all) who pay crappy American wages.......You could learn much from us.......Question..What have you done with all the money gleaned in taxes over the decades........you certainly don't look after the less able in your society now do you.....any society can only be measured by the less fortunate,in that Australia is head and shoulders above America.............steven

And you have been sold bill of goods......Yes....tax and spend and no consequences...riggggghhhhht........

 

[Tuatara]

I'm speaking about just before they did the shooting. Many people who have killed someone were a law abiding citizen before they pulled the trigger.

Do have statistics to back up your claims?

Really. Are you suggesting that everyone who killed someone with a gun in the US had a criminal record already?


The first three I checked all had no prior convictions and they all got their weapons legally.

Christopher Sean Harper-Mercer
Adam Lanza
Andrew Engeldinger

All were law abiding citizens before their mass killings.

There were 8,124 gun murders in 2014.......mass shooters.....here you go...

Here is the left wing news source...Mother Jones...they hate guns, just like you...they too have tracked mass shootings...and here is what they found...

If you go to the link they list each year and the specific mass shootings with details....injured, killed, weapons used.....do more research......you will post more intelligently....

US Mass Shootings, 1982-2015: Data From Mother Jones' Investigation

Sooooo....


US Mass Shootings, 1982-2015: Data From Mother Jones' Investigation

US Mass Shootings, 1982-2015: Data From Mother Jones' Investigation



How many deaths on average according to Mother Jones...anti gun, uber left wing Mother Jones.......each year, well less than 100.

2015......37
2014..... 9
2013..... 36
2012..... 72
2011..... 19
2010....9
2009...39
2008...18
2007...54
2006...21
2005...17
2004...5
2003...7
2002...not listed by mother jones
2001...5
2000...7

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf


Cars, Accidental deaths 2013......35,369

Poisons...accidental deaths 2013....38,851

Alcohol...accidental deaths 2013...29,001

gravity....accidental falling deaths 2013...30,208
Accidental drowning.....3,391
Accidental exposure to smoke, fire and flames.....2,760

Deaths from mass shootings 2013..... 36

Accidental gun deaths 2013......505


Those are the numbers of deaths from mass shootings in the United States.....and even in the big year, 2012, they didn't break 72 deaths by mass shooters.

How many guns are there in American hands....357 million.

How many people carry guns for self defense...over 13 mill

Your link has only 9 for 2014 and the Sandy Hook shootings were that year. That alone killed 27.

you read that wrong. Sandy hook was in 2012......

Just checked the site again. They put Sandy hook at December 12, 2014. You are correct, it's Dec 14th December 12. Must be a dyslexic site.

 

[2aguy]

Do have statistics to back up your claims?

Really. Are you suggesting that everyone who killed someone with a gun in the US had a criminal record already?


The first three I checked all had no prior convictions and they all got their weapons legally.

Christopher Sean Harper-Mercer
Adam Lanza
Andrew Engeldinger

All were law abiding citizens before their mass killings.

There were 8,124 gun murders in 2014.......mass shooters.....here you go...

Here is the left wing news source...Mother Jones...they hate guns, just like you...they too have tracked mass shootings...and here is what they found...

If you go to the link they list each year and the specific mass shootings with details....injured, killed, weapons used.....do more research......you will post more intelligently....

US Mass Shootings, 1982-2015: Data From Mother Jones' Investigation

Sooooo....


US Mass Shootings, 1982-2015: Data From Mother Jones' Investigation

US Mass Shootings, 1982-2015: Data From Mother Jones' Investigation



How many deaths on average according to Mother Jones...anti gun, uber left wing Mother Jones.......each year, well less than 100.

2015......37
2014..... 9
2013..... 36
2012..... 72
2011..... 19
2010....9
2009...39
2008...18
2007...54
2006...21
2005...17
2004...5
2003...7
2002...not listed by mother jones
2001...5
2000...7

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf


Cars, Accidental deaths 2013......35,369

Poisons...accidental deaths 2013....38,851

Alcohol...accidental deaths 2013...29,001

gravity....accidental falling deaths 2013...30,208
Accidental drowning.....3,391
Accidental exposure to smoke, fire and flames.....2,760

Deaths from mass shootings 2013..... 36

Accidental gun deaths 2013......505


Those are the numbers of deaths from mass shootings in the United States.....and even in the big year, 2012, they didn't break 72 deaths by mass shooters.

How many guns are there in American hands....357 million.

How many people carry guns for self defense...over 13 mill

Your link has only 9 for 2014 and the Sandy Hook shootings were that year. That alone killed 27.

you read that wrong. Sandy hook was in 2012......

Just checked the site again. They put Sandy hook at December 12, 2014. You are correct, it's Dec 14th December 12. Must be a dyslexic site.

Yeah....it happens.

 

[theliq]

Trouble IS that prior to TRANSPORTING PEOPLE TO AUSTRALIA.....THEY WERE SENT FOR YEARS TO AMERICA......see how the liq,educates Dumb Ass Americans.......You need to put your BRAIN into GEAR before OPENING THAT MOUTH OF YOURS........Don't Ya

But, you cannot even spell or use correct grammar? That tells me you are an extremely uneducated individual. Sorry about that. That is probably something you could talk about with your Australian friends. Your horrible school system.

That's really funny,considering I employ 300+ people on three continents......what do you do ?

Sure you do. Lol. So do I! Imagine that! Please, you aren't fooling anyone except for maybe yourself. Your silly claims mean nothing here. Now, stick to the topic, try to control yourself and maybe you won't be put on my ignore list, never to be seen or heard from again.

And therein lies your problem,you just don't create anything anymore......just farm off work to exploit workers in Asia and the Americas.......a little statistic for you "In 1964 ..97% of all clothing purchased by Americans was made in America(Great),Today 97% of all clothing purchased by Americans is made overseas(Not Great)." I could go on but it pretty much shows,how Americans do not support "Made in America".........I find it hard to equate seeing obviously Proud Americans waving the Flag but really do not support American business.so what are you left with ....cheap shoddy poor quality items.....The sad thing is that the American workforce and the products are outstanding,we buy product from America because its world best,made by educated dedicated workers who are proud of what they do......we can buy cheap from China but then we to are worlds best and only want the best for our clients worldwide,not everyone wants cheap because in the long run cheap is DEARER.

We have a good educational system,free to all,we have a good health system,free to all,we have good aged and unemployment system,free to all,we pay high wages to all..except these Macca (McDonalds and all) who pay crappy American wages.......You could learn much from us.......Question..What have you done with all the money gleaned in taxes over the decades........you certainly don't look after the less able in your society now do you.....any society can only be measured by the less fortunate,in that Australia is head and shoulders above America.............steven

And you have been sold bill of goods......Yes....tax and spend and no consequences...riggggghhhhht........

Excuse my ignorance but could you elaborate,I don't understand what you actually mean..thanks steven

 

[theliq]

Ah the former prison colony no wonder they ban guns you're all the descended from criminals

Yeah right. Britain Sent Loads Of Convicts To America, Not Just Australia

Yeah but we're not as inbred as you blokes because unlike you we allowed a huge influx of immigrants into our country early on

Lol. That explains why everyone I've ever met from Australia seemed so . . . strange.

Strange= Forward Thinking.......keep living in the past "America is Great" yeah,with your incredible debt,you should be living in mud huts,like other countries with such a massive debt ratio........How do you get away with it!!!!!!

America is great. That's why you are always posting about America and Americans! If you were so great, people would be posting about you and your country, but they aren't. The "Australia forum" is pretty . . . well inactive. Why? Because America is a world power and we play a huge and important role in the world, one I would like to see us give a little on, but it is what it is.

Exactly,mind you I do explain about Australia,normally after I have been roasted ........but you are right....You are very important,the other thing is,this site runs like an express train.......with some very knowledgeable posters

 

[2aguy]

But, you cannot even spell or use correct grammar? That tells me you are an extremely uneducated individual. Sorry about that. That is probably something you could talk about with your Australian friends. Your horrible school system.

That's really funny,considering I employ 300+ people on three continents......what do you do ?

Sure you do. Lol. So do I! Imagine that! Please, you aren't fooling anyone except for maybe yourself. Your silly claims mean nothing here. Now, stick to the topic, try to control yourself and maybe you won't be put on my ignore list, never to be seen or heard from again.

And therein lies your problem,you just don't create anything anymore......just farm off work to exploit workers in Asia and the Americas.......a little statistic for you "In 1964 ..97% of all clothing purchased by Americans was made in America(Great),Today 97% of all clothing purchased by Americans is made overseas(Not Great)." I could go on but it pretty much shows,how Americans do not support "Made in America".........I find it hard to equate seeing obviously Proud Americans waving the Flag but really do not support American business.so what are you left with ....cheap shoddy poor quality items.....The sad thing is that the American workforce and the products are outstanding,we buy product from America because its world best,made by educated dedicated workers who are proud of what they do......we can buy cheap from China but then we to are worlds best and only want the best for our clients worldwide,not everyone wants cheap because in the long run cheap is DEARER.

We have a good educational system,free to all,we have a good health system,free to all,we have good aged and unemployment system,free to all,we pay high wages to all..except these Macca (McDonalds and all) who pay crappy American wages.......You could learn much from us.......Question..What have you done with all the money gleaned in taxes over the decades........you certainly don't look after the less able in your society now do you.....any society can only be measured by the less fortunate,in that Australia is head and shoulders above America.............steven

And you have been sold bill of goods......Yes....tax and spend and no consequences...riggggghhhhht........

Excuse my ignorance but could you elaborate,I don't understand what you actually mean..thanks steven

You believe that you can maintain your government goodies and not pay a price down the road.....as Margaret Thatcher is quoted saying " The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." I would check your government's books...they are lying to you.

 

[emilynghiem]

To the other side....can you answer this question...

The real world example.....

The woman who was raped on her college campus, 50 feet from the campus police station...who had to leave her gun at home because the campus was a gun free zone...and raped at gun point because the rapist brought a gun into the gun free zone....

Was she paranoid because she wanted to bring her gun with her to the campus that night?

And Suzanah Gratia Hupp......who left her gun in her truck when she went to dinner at Luby's Cafe...because it was a felony to carry a gun in her purse.....

Was she paranoid to want to carry her gun into the restauarant........even after the guy drove his truck into the restaurant and murdered her parents and a bunch of other people....

Were these women paranoid for wanting to carry a gun on them?

Not really on the other side but I would like to tackle this issue. First of all I'm saddened by these events. The girl at the campus, was she also not allowed to carry mace or pepper spray? I have heard these have adverted attackers in the past. Also somebody who is very paranoid carrying a weapon might discharge at someone who was just about to ask for directions or an individual pulling a stupid prank by trying to scare here. Anyone who approaches a scared woman in the dark could run the risk of accidentally getting shot. This has also happened in the past. Also the rapist might have killed her when he noticed she had a gun.

As for Suzanah Gratia Hupp, I do not know for sure if things would have worked out better is she had a gun. Maybe her parents would be alive today if she had it with her or maybe she would have died also. I understand the desire to protect yourself. I'm all for it except in these incidents of "accidents". Too many stories of people taking or stealing their parents/friends guns and causing more death and violence. If I knew for sure that her bringing the gun in would have prevented those deaths then yes I would support her right to carry.

Those are a lot of maybes.....considering that Americans actually use guns 1.5 million times a year to stop violent criminal attack. Have you ever actually researched the topic? Your post points to you not having actaully looked at gun self defense.

There were 11.1 million people carrying guns in 2013....and in 2013 there were only 505 accidental gun deaths....

Can you see how you are wrong in your concept?

How many accidental gun deaths would there be if there were zero people carrying guns in 2013. Also your stat about stopping violent attacks. How could any of these stats show that the violent attack would have ended up in a death.

Dear Tuatara in order for that many people to agree not to carry guns,
a certain amount of conflict resolution and collaboration on alternative programs to eliminate the need for guns
would likely need to take place first.

So yes, the whole environment would have to change, in order not to need guns,
and then this environment would have solved the problems causing either violent attacks,
abuse of weapons whether guns knives cars etc, and/or reduced accidental deaths from guns, police confrontations,
and even criminal activities the same environment would also reduce or prevent.

 

[theliq]

That's really funny,considering I employ 300+ people on three continents......what do you do ?

Sure you do. Lol. So do I! Imagine that! Please, you aren't fooling anyone except for maybe yourself. Your silly claims mean nothing here. Now, stick to the topic, try to control yourself and maybe you won't be put on my ignore list, never to be seen or heard from again.

And therein lies your problem,you just don't create anything anymore......just farm off work to exploit workers in Asia and the Americas.......a little statistic for you "In 1964 ..97% of all clothing purchased by Americans was made in America(Great),Today 97% of all clothing purchased by Americans is made overseas(Not Great)." I could go on but it pretty much shows,how Americans do not support "Made in America".........I find it hard to equate seeing obviously Proud Americans waving the Flag but really do not support American business.so what are you left with ....cheap shoddy poor quality items.....The sad thing is that the American workforce and the products are outstanding,we buy product from America because its world best,made by educated dedicated workers who are proud of what they do......we can buy cheap from China but then we to are worlds best and only want the best for our clients worldwide,not everyone wants cheap because in the long run cheap is DEARER.

We have a good educational system,free to all,we have a good health system,free to all,we have good aged and unemployment system,free to all,we pay high wages to all..except these Macca (McDonalds and all) who pay crappy American wages.......You could learn much from us.......Question..What have you done with all the money gleaned in taxes over the decades........you certainly don't look after the less able in your society now do you.....any society can only be measured by the less fortunate,in that Australia is head and shoulders above America.............steven

And you have been sold bill of goods......Yes....tax and spend and no consequences...riggggghhhhht........

Excuse my ignorance but could you elaborate,I don't understand what you actually mean..thanks steven

You believe that you can maintain your government goodies and not pay a price down the road.....as Margaret Thatcher is quoted saying " The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." I would check your government's books...they are lying to you.

Not at all,all costings are verified by an independent authority,separate to the Government.............so we keep the Buggers honest.Our Government are responsible to us the people........and transparency is the name of the game...steve..They lie ? they die

 

[Tuatara]

To the other side....can you answer this question...

The real world example.....

The woman who was raped on her college campus, 50 feet from the campus police station...who had to leave her gun at home because the campus was a gun free zone...and raped at gun point because the rapist brought a gun into the gun free zone....

Was she paranoid because she wanted to bring her gun with her to the campus that night?

And Suzanah Gratia Hupp......who left her gun in her truck when she went to dinner at Luby's Cafe...because it was a felony to carry a gun in her purse.....

Was she paranoid to want to carry her gun into the restauarant........even after the guy drove his truck into the restaurant and murdered her parents and a bunch of other people....

Were these women paranoid for wanting to carry a gun on them?

Not really on the other side but I would like to tackle this issue. First of all I'm saddened by these events. The girl at the campus, was she also not allowed to carry mace or pepper spray? I have heard these have adverted attackers in the past. Also somebody who is very paranoid carrying a weapon might discharge at someone who was just about to ask for directions or an individual pulling a stupid prank by trying to scare here. Anyone who approaches a scared woman in the dark could run the risk of accidentally getting shot. This has also happened in the past. Also the rapist might have killed her when he noticed she had a gun.

As for Suzanah Gratia Hupp, I do not know for sure if things would have worked out better is she had a gun. Maybe her parents would be alive today if she had it with her or maybe she would have died also. I understand the desire to protect yourself. I'm all for it except in these incidents of "accidents". Too many stories of people taking or stealing their parents/friends guns and causing more death and violence. If I knew for sure that her bringing the gun in would have prevented those deaths then yes I would support her right to carry.

Those are a lot of maybes.....considering that Americans actually use guns 1.5 million times a year to stop violent criminal attack. Have you ever actually researched the topic? Your post points to you not having actaully looked at gun self defense.

There were 11.1 million people carrying guns in 2013....and in 2013 there were only 505 accidental gun deaths....

Can you see how you are wrong in your concept?

How many accidental gun deaths would there be if there were zero people carrying guns in 2013. Also your stat about stopping violent attacks. How could any of these stats show that the violent attack would have ended up in a death.

Dear Tuatara in order for that many people to agree not to carry guns,
a certain amount of conflict resolution and collaboration on alternative programs to eliminate the need for guns
would likely need to take place first.

So yes, the whole environment would have to change, in order not to need guns,
and then this environment would have solved the problems causing either violent attacks,
abuse of weapons whether guns knives cars etc, and/or reduced accidental deaths from guns, police confrontations,
and even criminal activities the same environment would also reduce or prevent.

I agree. Many things in society would have to change before even suggesting a society without guns. Society would almost have to live at a tribal level. Those with mental issues would be on a higher level of prominence. Too many other things to mention.

 

[theliq]

I do have some fear. There is a rational and justifiable reason to be afraid. It's violent out there. I fear for my family and my property.

The gun grabbers also fear, but they will try to pretend that our fear is unwarranted. They can't do it if we don't allow them to.

The world was not made perfect.

Which is exactly why we need guns.

You should realize that you cannot reason with some people and that they will just start insulting and making false accusations against you. They are terrible and rotten people.

There is something mentally wrong with you.......I suggest you look in a mirror.....it may shock you

I'm sorry, that would be yourself. Have you read your posts? You came here and started insulting me. Lol. You are so crazy you don't even realize it??? Is that what it is?

I do actually like you,you may dislike me but I see in you a very Proud and Passionate American Woman(am I really saying this !!!!!! YES I AM......I admit I have been a bit of a bastard to you,I can say no more) but you are an interesting woman.steven