FASCIST Kamala Harris: If Elected I Will Take Gun Dealers’ Licenses Away with Executive Action

[edthecynic]

no, we blamed Holder and Obama, cause that's who set it up.

This is just what this forum needed....ANOTHER uneducated, ignorant and low-life right wing fuckhead.....

Operation Fast and Furious was a STING operation by ATF that went wrong....
It was started in 2006........Does a moron like you know WHO was president in 2006???

Wrong, you are the moron. The Bush era program, "Wide Receiver," ended when they lost control of 3 weapons....the obama era Fast and Furious program lost control of thousands of guns that were purchased by drug cartels...two different programs, two different goals...

Reasoned Politics: Wide Receiver vs. Fast and Furious

Let’s compare the two programs:

Cooperation with Mexico:
Wide Receiver: Mexican Law Enforcement notified, Mexico consented and was a full partner.
Fast and Furious: Mexico intentionally kept in the dark. No coordination or consent.

Surveillance of Firearms:
Wide Receiver: Agents attempted to keep track of the guns at all times.
Fast and Furious: Agents were ordered not to track the guns after they were purchased.

Use of Tracking Devices:
Wide Receiver: Extensive – placed in every lot of guns purchased
Fast and Furious: One “agent built” device in one gun

Performance of Tracking Devices:
Wide Receiver: Smugglers figured out how to defeat trackers
Fast and Furious: Smugglers didn’t have to do anything

Number of Firearms Sent to Cartels:
Wide Receiver: About 250
Fast and Furious: Exact number unknown, but over 2,500

Actions at the Border:
Wide Receiver: Attempted to hand off surveillance to Mexican law enforcement
Fast and Furious: ATF worked with Customs to make sure guns were not stopped at border

Reaction to guns “getting away”:
Wide Receiver: Program terminated. William Newell wrote memo saying “never again”
Fast and Furious: Program continued – recovered guns tracked and mapped.

Ironically, Wide Receiver provides an excellent example of a truly “botched sting operation”. The purpose of the Bush era programs was to track the guns to and over the border where Mexican law enforcement would make arrests. It was poorly planned and executed – but it at least has some potential to work and serve a law enforcement purpose. Make no mistake – Wide Receiver should result in heads rolling – but the program was not designed to send guns to the cartels.

Another point: Since the Phoenix ATF had experience with this kind of operation, why would they think that a program with many less safeguards would ever work?

Why was such an operation begun with months of President Obama taking office and immediately after their bogus numbers on US retail sourced guns going to Mexico were exposed as false? Sadly, the answer is obvious.

In contrast, Fast and Furious was designed to pump guns into Mexico, without the knowledge of the Mexican government.

Without their knowledge and cooperation, their was no chance of making arrests as a result of allowing guns to cross the border. Therefore, there was no law enforcement purpose. It was designed and executed for the purpose of sending guns from US retail outlets to the cartels. It was not a “botched sting operation” – it was a correctly executed plan with a very evil purpose.

This begs the question: What was the purpose of sending these guns into Mexico, where they were used to kill hundreds of Mexicans?

If one looks at what this could accomplish, the only answer on the table is the same one named by both the whistle blowing agents and the former head of the Pheonix DEA office who was “in the loop”: The passage of new gun control laws in the US.

Pure Bullshit, and you know it.
The NRA and GOP's Fast and Furious Lies

 

[nat4900]

No...we blamed obama and eric holder for selling thousands of guns to drug cartels

Which, of course, they didn't do. The NRA, National Russia Association, made it impossible to prosecute the straw purchasers selling to the cartels. But you knew that already more than anyone.

Again, my point is that if the ATF fucked up in "selling guns" as a sting operation...and guns wound up in EVIL hands, and right wingers on here STILL bitch about it, WHY do these same guns nuts DO NOT go ballistic when someone sells a gun through the internet or gun shows???

 

[beagle9]

No...we blamed obama and eric holder for selling thousands of guns to drug cartels

Which, of course, they didn't do. The NRA, National Russia Association, made it impossible to prosecute the straw purchasers selling to the cartels. But you knew that already more than anyone.

Again, my point is that if the ATF fucked up in "selling guns" as a sting operation...and guns wound up in EVIL hands, and right wingers on here STILL bitch about it, WHY do these same guns nuts DO NOT go ballistic when someone sells a gun through the internet or gun shows???

Are those guns ending up in evil hands ? If so can you tell us how you know they came from gun shows or from internet sales ?

 

[2aguy]

No...we blamed obama and eric holder for selling thousands of guns to drug cartels

Which, of course, they didn't do. The NRA, National Russia Association, made it impossible to prosecute the straw purchasers selling to the cartels. But you knew that already more than anyone.

Again, my point is that if the ATF fucked up in "selling guns" as a sting operation...and guns wound up in EVIL hands, and right wingers on here STILL bitch about it, WHY do these same guns nuts DO NOT go ballistic when someone sells a gun through the internet or gun shows???

We are the ones calling for long prison sentences for gun criminals.....you and the democrats are the ones letting violent, known, repeat gun offenders out of jail on bond, and out of prison on reduced sentences....and then complaining about gun violence....

you are the problem, not us.

 

[beagle9]

No...we blamed obama and eric holder for selling thousands of guns to drug cartels

Which, of course, they didn't do. The NRA, National Russia Association, made it impossible to prosecute the straw purchasers selling to the cartels. But you knew that already more than anyone.

Again, my point is that if the ATF fucked up in "selling guns" as a sting operation...and guns wound up in EVIL hands, and right wingers on here STILL bitch about it, WHY do these same guns nuts DO NOT go ballistic when someone sells a gun through the internet or gun shows???

We are the ones calling for long prison sentences for gun criminals.....you and the democrats are the ones letting violent, known, repeat gun offenders out of jail on bond, and out of prison on reduced sentences....and then complaining about gun violence....

you are the problem, not us.

Just watched a documentary not long ago where the story was dedicated to lessening the sentences for those who were young when they committed the henious muders that they had committed. The thing however that was lost in the sympathetic episode for the criminals, was in fact sympathy for the poor victim's of the crimes that were sadly committed against them.

 

[jasonnfree]

Sounds reasonable. How many private citizens sell more than five guns a year?

 

[daveman]

No...we blamed obama and eric holder for selling thousands of guns to drug cartels

Which, of course, they didn't do. The NRA, National Russia Association, made it impossible to prosecute the straw purchasers selling to the cartels. But you knew that already more than anyone.

Again, my point is that if the ATF fucked up in "selling guns" as a sting operation...and guns wound up in EVIL hands, and right wingers on here STILL bitch about it, WHY do these same guns nuts DO NOT go ballistic when someone sells a gun through the internet or gun shows???

We are the ones calling for long prison sentences for gun criminals.....you and the democrats are the ones letting violent, known, repeat gun offenders out of jail on bond, and out of prison on reduced sentences....and then complaining about gun violence....

you are the problem, not us.

They also oppose notification of ICE when illegal aliens purchase firearms.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Don’t vote for her then


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Very few people will.

 

[The Purge]

no, we blamed Holder and Obama, cause that's who set it up.

This is just what this forum needed....ANOTHER uneducated, ignorant and low-life right wing fuckhead.....

Operation Fast and Furious was a STING operation by ATF that went wrong....
It was started in 2006........Does a moron like you know WHO was president in 2006???

Wrong, you are the moron. The Bush era program, "Wide Receiver," ended when they lost control of 3 weapons....the obama era Fast and Furious program lost control of thousands of guns that were purchased by drug cartels...two different programs, two different goals...

Reasoned Politics: Wide Receiver vs. Fast and Furious

Let’s compare the two programs:

Cooperation with Mexico:
Wide Receiver: Mexican Law Enforcement notified, Mexico consented and was a full partner.
Fast and Furious: Mexico intentionally kept in the dark. No coordination or consent.

Surveillance of Firearms:
Wide Receiver: Agents attempted to keep track of the guns at all times.
Fast and Furious: Agents were ordered not to track the guns after they were purchased.

Use of Tracking Devices:
Wide Receiver: Extensive – placed in every lot of guns purchased
Fast and Furious: One “agent built” device in one gun

Performance of Tracking Devices:
Wide Receiver: Smugglers figured out how to defeat trackers
Fast and Furious: Smugglers didn’t have to do anything

Number of Firearms Sent to Cartels:
Wide Receiver: About 250
Fast and Furious: Exact number unknown, but over 2,500

Actions at the Border:
Wide Receiver: Attempted to hand off surveillance to Mexican law enforcement
Fast and Furious: ATF worked with Customs to make sure guns were not stopped at border

Reaction to guns “getting away”:
Wide Receiver: Program terminated. William Newell wrote memo saying “never again”
Fast and Furious: Program continued – recovered guns tracked and mapped.

Ironically, Wide Receiver provides an excellent example of a truly “botched sting operation”. The purpose of the Bush era programs was to track the guns to and over the border where Mexican law enforcement would make arrests. It was poorly planned and executed – but it at least has some potential to work and serve a law enforcement purpose. Make no mistake – Wide Receiver should result in heads rolling – but the program was not designed to send guns to the cartels.

Another point: Since the Phoenix ATF had experience with this kind of operation, why would they think that a program with many less safeguards would ever work?

Why was such an operation begun with months of President Obama taking office and immediately after their bogus numbers on US retail sourced guns going to Mexico were exposed as false? Sadly, the answer is obvious.

In contrast, Fast and Furious was designed to pump guns into Mexico, without the knowledge of the Mexican government.

Without their knowledge and cooperation, their was no chance of making arrests as a result of allowing guns to cross the border. Therefore, there was no law enforcement purpose. It was designed and executed for the purpose of sending guns from US retail outlets to the cartels. It was not a “botched sting operation” – it was a correctly executed plan with a very evil purpose.

This begs the question: What was the purpose of sending these guns into Mexico, where they were used to kill hundreds of Mexicans?

If one looks at what this could accomplish, the only answer on the table is the same one named by both the whistle blowing agents and the former head of the Pheonix DEA office who was “in the loop”: The passage of new gun control laws in the US.

Pure Bullshit, and you know it.
The NRA and GOP's Fast and Furious Lies

Red ED has an article from that communist rag The Nation...ROTFLMFAO

 

[edthecynic]

no, we blamed Holder and Obama, cause that's who set it up.

This is just what this forum needed....ANOTHER uneducated, ignorant and low-life right wing fuckhead.....

Operation Fast and Furious was a STING operation by ATF that went wrong....
It was started in 2006........Does a moron like you know WHO was president in 2006???

Wrong, you are the moron. The Bush era program, "Wide Receiver," ended when they lost control of 3 weapons....the obama era Fast and Furious program lost control of thousands of guns that were purchased by drug cartels...two different programs, two different goals...

Reasoned Politics: Wide Receiver vs. Fast and Furious

Let’s compare the two programs:

Cooperation with Mexico:
Wide Receiver: Mexican Law Enforcement notified, Mexico consented and was a full partner.
Fast and Furious: Mexico intentionally kept in the dark. No coordination or consent.

Surveillance of Firearms:
Wide Receiver: Agents attempted to keep track of the guns at all times.
Fast and Furious: Agents were ordered not to track the guns after they were purchased.

Use of Tracking Devices:
Wide Receiver: Extensive – placed in every lot of guns purchased
Fast and Furious: One “agent built” device in one gun

Performance of Tracking Devices:
Wide Receiver: Smugglers figured out how to defeat trackers
Fast and Furious: Smugglers didn’t have to do anything

Number of Firearms Sent to Cartels:
Wide Receiver: About 250
Fast and Furious: Exact number unknown, but over 2,500

Actions at the Border:
Wide Receiver: Attempted to hand off surveillance to Mexican law enforcement
Fast and Furious: ATF worked with Customs to make sure guns were not stopped at border

Reaction to guns “getting away”:
Wide Receiver: Program terminated. William Newell wrote memo saying “never again”
Fast and Furious: Program continued – recovered guns tracked and mapped.

Ironically, Wide Receiver provides an excellent example of a truly “botched sting operation”. The purpose of the Bush era programs was to track the guns to and over the border where Mexican law enforcement would make arrests. It was poorly planned and executed – but it at least has some potential to work and serve a law enforcement purpose. Make no mistake – Wide Receiver should result in heads rolling – but the program was not designed to send guns to the cartels.

Another point: Since the Phoenix ATF had experience with this kind of operation, why would they think that a program with many less safeguards would ever work?

Why was such an operation begun with months of President Obama taking office and immediately after their bogus numbers on US retail sourced guns going to Mexico were exposed as false? Sadly, the answer is obvious.

In contrast, Fast and Furious was designed to pump guns into Mexico, without the knowledge of the Mexican government.

Without their knowledge and cooperation, their was no chance of making arrests as a result of allowing guns to cross the border. Therefore, there was no law enforcement purpose. It was designed and executed for the purpose of sending guns from US retail outlets to the cartels. It was not a “botched sting operation” – it was a correctly executed plan with a very evil purpose.

This begs the question: What was the purpose of sending these guns into Mexico, where they were used to kill hundreds of Mexicans?

If one looks at what this could accomplish, the only answer on the table is the same one named by both the whistle blowing agents and the former head of the Pheonix DEA office who was “in the loop”: The passage of new gun control laws in the US.

Pure Bullshit, and you know it.
The NRA and GOP's Fast and Furious Lies

Red ED has an article from that communist rag The Nation...ROTFLMFAO

Better than the NAZI rag reasoned politics..
Here is another source.
The truth about the Fast and Furious scandal
Quite simply, there’s a fundamental misconception at the heart of the Fast and Furious scandal. Nobody disputes that suspected straw purchasers under surveillance by the ATF repeatedly bought guns that eventually fell into criminal hands. Issa and others charge that the ATF intentionally allowed guns to walk as an operational tactic. But five law-enforcement agents directly involved in Fast and Furious tell Fortune that the ATF had no such tactic. They insist they never purposefully allowed guns to be illegally trafficked. Just the opposite: They say they seized weapons whenever they could but were hamstrung by prosecutors and weak laws, which stymied them at every turn. [thank you NRA]

Indeed, a six-month Fortune investigation reveals that the public case alleging that Voth and his colleagues walked guns is replete with distortions, errors, partial truths, and even some outright lies. Fortune reviewed more than 2,000 pages of confidential ATF documents and interviewed 39 people, including seven law-enforcement agents with direct knowledge of the case. Several, including Voth, are speaking out for the first time.

 

[nat4900]

Are those guns ending up in evil hands ? If so can you tell us how you know they came from gun shows or from internet sales ?

Here's just ONE example

The 22-caliber Walther semi-automatic pistol used by Cho Seung-Hui in the Virginia Tech massacre was purchased on the Internet from a Green Bay, Wisconsin-based Web site, The Gun Source.

Va. Tech Killer Bought 2nd Gun Online

 

[2aguy]

Are those guns ending up in evil hands ? If so can you tell us how you know they came from gun shows or from internet sales ?

Here's just ONE example

The 22-caliber Walther semi-automatic pistol used by Cho Seung-Hui in the Virginia Tech massacre was purchased on the Internet from a Green Bay, Wisconsin-based Web site, The Gun Source.

Va. Tech Killer Bought 2nd Gun Online

Moron......he bought the gun legally.........

You really are a moron and you need to actually read your source....his buying the gun in Wisconsin wasn't sinister or against the law...you moron........

In both instances, Cho passed a federally-mandated background check conducted for Virginia gun dealers by the state police. Cho filled out paperwork for the instant check for the Walther at the Blacksburg pawn shop, waiting only ten minutes to be cleared, according to the shop's owner.
----

Virginia State Police said consequently Cho was not prohibited from buying a gun, according to state laws, because he was never committed to a mental health facility.

Your god...."government" failed again...

The court proceeding resulted after school officials worried Cho was suicidal and referred him for closer medical examination. The court stopped short of ordering Cho to be hospitalized and instead ordered him to undergo outpatient treatment.

Paul Barnett, a lawyer who serves as the special justice of the general district court three days a week and oversaw the Cho case, told CBS News that when deciding these cases he prefers the least restrictive option.

Barnett, who handles 60 to 80 assessments every month, declined to discuss Cho in detail. But he said when weighing involuntary commitment, he relies on more than one mental health professional, including an evaluation from someone not affiliated with the institution where the individual might be sent.

The only evaluation among the Cho court papers declared the college student depressed but not suicidal. "His insight and judgment are normal," wrote Dr. Ray Crowe, who concluded 16 months ago Cho was not a danger to himself or others and did not require hospitalization.
======
Virginia State Police said consequently Cho was not prohibited from buying a gun, according to state laws, because he was never committed to a mental health facility.

 

[2aguy]

Are those guns ending up in evil hands ? If so can you tell us how you know they came from gun shows or from internet sales ?

Here's just ONE example

The 22-caliber Walther semi-automatic pistol used by Cho Seung-Hui in the Virginia Tech massacre was purchased on the Internet from a Green Bay, Wisconsin-based Web site, The Gun Source.

Va. Tech Killer Bought 2nd Gun Online

You moron......

The 22-caliber Walther semi-automatic pistol
======

Cho filled out paperwork for the instant check for the Walther at the Blacksburg pawn shop,

 

[Leo123]

Are those guns ending up in evil hands ? If so can you tell us how you know they came from gun shows or from internet sales ?

Here's just ONE example

The 22-caliber Walther semi-automatic pistol used by Cho Seung-Hui in the Virginia Tech massacre was purchased on the Internet from a Green Bay, Wisconsin-based Web site, The Gun Source.

Va. Tech Killer Bought 2nd Gun Online

So fucking what? Hammers are the #1 murder weapon.

 

[Papageorgio]

The blaming the gun is just one example of this,

Morons like you blamed the "gun" when it came to Fast and Furious, didn't you?

I blamed the government, and their not keeping track of what they were doing. Incompetent leadership, incompetent plan and really poor execution.

Harris is also spouting nonsense, no way can you take guns away, the courts would stop it, she also know that, she is just postering. Trump found votes in going to extreme, I believe that might be the strategy for most the candidates. If you get a candidate that is close to the center, like Biden, I think they come out the nomination.

 

[Papageorgio]

no, we blamed Holder and Obama, cause that's who set it up.

This is just what this forum needed....ANOTHER uneducated, ignorant and low-life right wing fuckhead.....

Operation Fast and Furious was a STING operation by ATF that went wrong....
It was started in 2006........Does a moron like you know WHO was president in 2006???

There was a previous Operation in 2006, it wasn’t in place in 2008, it ended. Then a couple years later Fast and Furious surfaced and it was on steroids and that is when it went bad. It was a very stupid plan, another government mess, created by our government.

 

[The Purge]

no, we blamed Holder and Obama, cause that's who set it up.

This is just what this forum needed....ANOTHER uneducated, ignorant and low-life right wing fuckhead.....

Operation Fast and Furious was a STING operation by ATF that went wrong....
It was started in 2006........Does a moron like you know WHO was president in 2006???

Wrong, you are the moron. The Bush era program, "Wide Receiver," ended when they lost control of 3 weapons....the obama era Fast and Furious program lost control of thousands of guns that were purchased by drug cartels...two different programs, two different goals...

Reasoned Politics: Wide Receiver vs. Fast and Furious

Let’s compare the two programs:

Cooperation with Mexico:
Wide Receiver: Mexican Law Enforcement notified, Mexico consented and was a full partner.
Fast and Furious: Mexico intentionally kept in the dark. No coordination or consent.

Surveillance of Firearms:
Wide Receiver: Agents attempted to keep track of the guns at all times.
Fast and Furious: Agents were ordered not to track the guns after they were purchased.

Use of Tracking Devices:
Wide Receiver: Extensive – placed in every lot of guns purchased
Fast and Furious: One “agent built” device in one gun

Performance of Tracking Devices:
Wide Receiver: Smugglers figured out how to defeat trackers
Fast and Furious: Smugglers didn’t have to do anything

Number of Firearms Sent to Cartels:
Wide Receiver: About 250
Fast and Furious: Exact number unknown, but over 2,500

Actions at the Border:
Wide Receiver: Attempted to hand off surveillance to Mexican law enforcement
Fast and Furious: ATF worked with Customs to make sure guns were not stopped at border

Reaction to guns “getting away”:
Wide Receiver: Program terminated. William Newell wrote memo saying “never again”
Fast and Furious: Program continued – recovered guns tracked and mapped.

Ironically, Wide Receiver provides an excellent example of a truly “botched sting operation”. The purpose of the Bush era programs was to track the guns to and over the border where Mexican law enforcement would make arrests. It was poorly planned and executed – but it at least has some potential to work and serve a law enforcement purpose. Make no mistake – Wide Receiver should result in heads rolling – but the program was not designed to send guns to the cartels.

Another point: Since the Phoenix ATF had experience with this kind of operation, why would they think that a program with many less safeguards would ever work?

Why was such an operation begun with months of President Obama taking office and immediately after their bogus numbers on US retail sourced guns going to Mexico were exposed as false? Sadly, the answer is obvious.

In contrast, Fast and Furious was designed to pump guns into Mexico, without the knowledge of the Mexican government.

Without their knowledge and cooperation, their was no chance of making arrests as a result of allowing guns to cross the border. Therefore, there was no law enforcement purpose. It was designed and executed for the purpose of sending guns from US retail outlets to the cartels. It was not a “botched sting operation” – it was a correctly executed plan with a very evil purpose.

This begs the question: What was the purpose of sending these guns into Mexico, where they were used to kill hundreds of Mexicans?

If one looks at what this could accomplish, the only answer on the table is the same one named by both the whistle blowing agents and the former head of the Pheonix DEA office who was “in the loop”: The passage of new gun control laws in the US.

Pure Bullshit, and you know it.
The NRA and GOP's Fast and Furious Lies

Red ED has an article from that communist rag The Nation...ROTFLMFAO

Better than the NAZI rag reasoned politics..
Here is another source.
The truth about the Fast and Furious scandal
Quite simply, there’s a fundamental misconception at the heart of the Fast and Furious scandal. Nobody disputes that suspected straw purchasers under surveillance by the ATF repeatedly bought guns that eventually fell into criminal hands. Issa and others charge that the ATF intentionally allowed guns to walk as an operational tactic. But five law-enforcement agents directly involved in Fast and Furious tell Fortune that the ATF had no such tactic. They insist they never purposefully allowed guns to be illegally trafficked. Just the opposite: They say they seized weapons whenever they could but were hamstrung by prosecutors and weak laws, which stymied them at every turn. [thank you NRA]

Indeed, a six-month Fortune investigation reveals that the public case alleging that Voth and his colleagues walked guns is replete with distortions, errors, partial truths, and even some outright lies. Fortune reviewed more than 2,000 pages of confidential ATF documents and interviewed 39 people, including seven law-enforcement agents with direct knowledge of the case. Several, including Voth, are speaking out for the first time.

Reslly?.... Then RED ED, why did Eric THE RED Holder refuse for almost a year to give the committee the documents?

 

[edthecynic]

This is just what this forum needed....ANOTHER uneducated, ignorant and low-life right wing fuckhead.....

Operation Fast and Furious was a STING operation by ATF that went wrong....
It was started in 2006........Does a moron like you know WHO was president in 2006???

Wrong, you are the moron. The Bush era program, "Wide Receiver," ended when they lost control of 3 weapons....the obama era Fast and Furious program lost control of thousands of guns that were purchased by drug cartels...two different programs, two different goals...

Reasoned Politics: Wide Receiver vs. Fast and Furious

Let’s compare the two programs:

Cooperation with Mexico:
Wide Receiver: Mexican Law Enforcement notified, Mexico consented and was a full partner.
Fast and Furious: Mexico intentionally kept in the dark. No coordination or consent.

Surveillance of Firearms:
Wide Receiver: Agents attempted to keep track of the guns at all times.
Fast and Furious: Agents were ordered not to track the guns after they were purchased.

Use of Tracking Devices:
Wide Receiver: Extensive – placed in every lot of guns purchased
Fast and Furious: One “agent built” device in one gun

Performance of Tracking Devices:
Wide Receiver: Smugglers figured out how to defeat trackers
Fast and Furious: Smugglers didn’t have to do anything

Number of Firearms Sent to Cartels:
Wide Receiver: About 250
Fast and Furious: Exact number unknown, but over 2,500

Actions at the Border:
Wide Receiver: Attempted to hand off surveillance to Mexican law enforcement
Fast and Furious: ATF worked with Customs to make sure guns were not stopped at border

Reaction to guns “getting away”:
Wide Receiver: Program terminated. William Newell wrote memo saying “never again”
Fast and Furious: Program continued – recovered guns tracked and mapped.

Ironically, Wide Receiver provides an excellent example of a truly “botched sting operation”. The purpose of the Bush era programs was to track the guns to and over the border where Mexican law enforcement would make arrests. It was poorly planned and executed – but it at least has some potential to work and serve a law enforcement purpose. Make no mistake – Wide Receiver should result in heads rolling – but the program was not designed to send guns to the cartels.

Another point: Since the Phoenix ATF had experience with this kind of operation, why would they think that a program with many less safeguards would ever work?

Why was such an operation begun with months of President Obama taking office and immediately after their bogus numbers on US retail sourced guns going to Mexico were exposed as false? Sadly, the answer is obvious.

In contrast, Fast and Furious was designed to pump guns into Mexico, without the knowledge of the Mexican government.

Without their knowledge and cooperation, their was no chance of making arrests as a result of allowing guns to cross the border. Therefore, there was no law enforcement purpose. It was designed and executed for the purpose of sending guns from US retail outlets to the cartels. It was not a “botched sting operation” – it was a correctly executed plan with a very evil purpose.

This begs the question: What was the purpose of sending these guns into Mexico, where they were used to kill hundreds of Mexicans?

If one looks at what this could accomplish, the only answer on the table is the same one named by both the whistle blowing agents and the former head of the Pheonix DEA office who was “in the loop”: The passage of new gun control laws in the US.

Pure Bullshit, and you know it.
The NRA and GOP's Fast and Furious Lies

Red ED has an article from that communist rag The Nation...ROTFLMFAO

Better than the NAZI rag reasoned politics..
Here is another source.
The truth about the Fast and Furious scandal
Quite simply, there’s a fundamental misconception at the heart of the Fast and Furious scandal. Nobody disputes that suspected straw purchasers under surveillance by the ATF repeatedly bought guns that eventually fell into criminal hands. Issa and others charge that the ATF intentionally allowed guns to walk as an operational tactic. But five law-enforcement agents directly involved in Fast and Furious tell Fortune that the ATF had no such tactic. They insist they never purposefully allowed guns to be illegally trafficked. Just the opposite: They say they seized weapons whenever they could but were hamstrung by prosecutors and weak laws, which stymied them at every turn. [thank you NRA]

Indeed, a six-month Fortune investigation reveals that the public case alleging that Voth and his colleagues walked guns is replete with distortions, errors, partial truths, and even some outright lies. Fortune reviewed more than 2,000 pages of confidential ATF documents and interviewed 39 people, including seven law-enforcement agents with direct knowledge of the case. Several, including Voth, are speaking out for the first time.

Reslly?.... Then RED ED, why did Eric THE RED Holder refuse for almost a year to give the committee the documents?

Because, as you well know, they were related to ongoing criminal investigations. Issa, as you also well know, wanted the documents to force Holder to drop the investigations into NRA sanctioned straw purchasers who were supplying the guns to the cartels because they make up a significant portion of the gun lobby sales. If Holder would stop straw purchases there he could stop them everywhere and the NRA could not allow that. The NRA would not even allow the serial numbers of the straw purchases to be recorded so it could be proven just how many straw purchases were being made.

 

[edthecynic]

no, we blamed Holder and Obama, cause that's who set it up.

This is just what this forum needed....ANOTHER uneducated, ignorant and low-life right wing fuckhead.....

Operation Fast and Furious was a STING operation by ATF that went wrong....
It was started in 2006........Does a moron like you know WHO was president in 2006???

There was a previous Operation in 2006, it wasn’t in place in 2008, it ended. Then a couple years later Fast and Furious surfaced and it was on steroids and that is when it went bad. It was a very stupid plan, another government mess, created by our government.

Fast and Furious was a HOAX made up by the NRA and the GOP.

In a sane country, the inquiry into Brian Terry’s death would have examined all the tools that the ATF agents lacked in trying to build a case against the straw purchasers in Fast and Furious. There is no firearms trafficking statute, which would have allowed the ATF to build a swifter case that targeted the straw purchasers and their recruiters as a group. There is no comprehensive database of firearms purchases, which would have given the agents a much-needed real-time look at their suspects’ activities.

 

[The Purge]

no, we blamed Holder and Obama, cause that's who set it up.

This is just what this forum needed....ANOTHER uneducated, ignorant and low-life right wing fuckhead.....

Operation Fast and Furious was a STING operation by ATF that went wrong....
It was started in 2006........Does a moron like you know WHO was president in 2006???

There was a previous Operation in 2006, it wasn’t in place in 2008, it ended. Then a couple years later Fast and Furious surfaced and it was on steroids and that is when it went bad. It was a very stupid plan, another government mess, created by our government.

Fast and Furious was a HOAX made up by the NRA and the GOP.

In a sane country, the inquiry into Brian Terry’s death would have examined all the tools that the ATF agents lacked in trying to build a case against the straw purchasers in Fast and Furious. There is no firearms trafficking statute, which would have allowed the ATF to build a swifter case that targeted the straw purchasers and their recruiters as a group. There is no comprehensive database of firearms purchases, which would have given the agents a much-needed real-time look at their suspects’ activities.

You ste entitled to what you believe but NOT ENTITLED to FAKE FACTS!!!!

Gun-Running Timeline: How DOJ's 'Operation Fast and Furious' Unfolded

Jul 7, 2011 · Gun-Running Timeline: How DOJ's ' Operation Fast and Furious' Unfolded ..... Kay Bailey Hutchinson (R-Texas) asked Holder about the matter.