Zone1 Fascination with the Devil and Hell

[Blues Man]

Christianity believes that the New Testament of Jesus Christ is fulfillment of the Old Testament.

Matthew 5:16

17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished."

I don't know how much you know or understand about both the Old Testament and The New Testament. (Both philosophically and historically) But I would be pleased to answer any other questions you have from both a philosophical and historical perspective. (Non religious, since you apparently have a hostility towards these specific religions).

Again that has nothing to do with the 2nd Commandment


I've read the OT and the NT through more than once which btw is more times than most Christians have. And every Christian church i have ever been in has graven images of Jesus, Mary and multiple saints which is a direct violation of the 2nd Commandment

 

[Ace Nova]

Again that has nothing to do with the 2nd Commandment


I've read the OT and the NT through more than once which btw is more times than most Christians have. And every Christian church i have ever been in has graven images of Jesus, Mary and multiple saints which is a direct violation of the 2nd Commandment

I think most Christians view and understand the 2nd commandment meaning “idolizing” and most translations mean “idolizing”. I’ve already explained the differences. You either accept them or you don’t. Won’t make the least of differences to you or Christians that view it differently.

Not to mention the fact that the New Testament is a new covenant - new instructions, new meaning, new understanding. Hence the reason Christians can eat pork, shell fish etc.

 

[Blues Man]

I think most Christians view and understand the 2nd commandment meaning “idolizing” and most translations mean “idolizing”. I’ve already explained the differences. You either accept them or you don’t. Won’t make the least of differences to you or Christians that view it differently.

Not to mention the fact that the New Testament is a new covenant - new instructions, new meaning, new understanding. Hence the reason Christians can eat pork, shell fish etc.

But the NT does not negate the OT.

 

[Ace Nova]

But the NT does not negate the OT.

Correct - it “fulfills it” and part of fulfilling it includes a new covenant (meaning new understanding, new way of living, etc)

 

[Blues Man]

Correct - it “fulfills it” and part of fulfilling it includes a new covenant (meaning new understanding, new way of living, etc)

So the second commandment still applies and Christians ignore it

 

[Meriweather]

So the second commandment still applies and Christians ignore it

Ah. Once again someone who is not of a group tells us what we "really" do and/or why we "really" do it. We have already gone through scripture pointing out we are well within the bounds of the Commandments. Of course, this doesn't interest people who feel they must tear down the faith of others in order for their own beliefs to have a leg on which to stand.

We should speak to the strength of our own faith. Once one starts trying to undermine the faith of others it is as much as admitting that faith cannot rise to the level/strength of the one being attacked.

 

[Ace Nova]

So the second commandment still applies and Christians ignore it

It’s already been explained ad nauseam to you. If you still don’t get it - well, that’s on your lack of comprehension. The rest of the world - atheists and all - understand it - they may not agree with it but they get it

 

[Blues Man]

Ah. Once again someone who is not of a group tells us what we "really" do and/or why we "really" do it. We have already gone through scripture pointing out we are well within the bounds of the Commandments. Of course, this doesn't interest people who feel they must tear down the faith of others in order for their own beliefs to have a leg on which to stand.

We should speak to the strength of our own faith. Once one starts trying to undermine the faith of others it is as much as admitting that faith cannot rise to the level/strength of the one being attacked.

That's not how I read or understood the commandment.

And I'm not undermining anything just pointing out yet another contradiction that to me is as plain as day

 

[Meriweather]

That's not how I read or understood the commandment.

You read and came to your own conclusion based on the reading of a commandment. Remember a conclusion is often the point where one stops thinking feeling that to go on thinking might disprove their conclusion--and wouldn't that be awful--being guilty of jumping to a wrong conclusion.

Did you actually study the Hebrew language? Did you study the cultures of the time? Did you study why God forbade graven images for a certain purpose and yet commanded them for other purposes? God did command graven images for certain purposes. Why was that? I'll give you a hint: Those images were an assist in worship and trust in His ways.

 

[Blues Man]

You read and came to your own conclusion based on the reading of a commandment. Remember a conclusion is often the point where one stops thinking feeling that to go on thinking might disprove their conclusion--and wouldn't that be awful--being guilty of jumping to a wrong conclusion.

Did you actually study the Hebrew language? Did you study the cultures of the time? Did you study why God forbade graven images for a certain purpose and yet commanded them for other purposes? God did command graven images for certain purposes. Why was that? I'll give you a hint: Those images were an assist in worship and trust in His ways.

It's not just my conclusion

Idol and Likeness

Mike explains the various ways the second commandment forbidding idolatry is violated in modern times.

bibletalk.tv

4"You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth. 5You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me, 6but showing lovingkindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
- Exodus 20:4-6


Note that the command does not just say kneel, or pray to, but actually "make" such things. An "idol" is a manmade object that represents what man thinks or imagines what God is like. A "likeness" is an object in nature which represents God.

 

[Meriweather]

"You shall not make for yourself an idol

And that is the reason for the commandment. Any item that is used for such a purpose (i.e., a lucky rabbit's foot or any other "lucky" object or likeness on or above the earth) is breaking the Commandment. It does not forbid art as is noted on the Ark of the Covenant and in the Temple. Art and sculpture not used as an idol or a lucky piece or a piece of power (such as the power of having the image of a lion that one believes emits from a graven image) isn't forbidden.

Give it up., The second commandment is about clinging to the power of superstitions instead of having faith in God alone.

 

[Ace Nova]

That's not how I read or understood the commandment.

And I'm not undermining anything just pointing out yet another contradiction that to me is as plain as day

Contradictions? The Bible is full of (apparent) contradictions if you read it word for word without understanding that the Bible is made up of 70+ books written hundreds - if not thousands of years apart.

I can find you dozens of (apparent) contradictions other than that one commandment.

Is that what you were looking for? Or would you prefer understanding?

 

[Blues Man]

And that is the reason for the commandment. Any item that is used for such a purpose (i.e., a lucky rabbit's foot or any other "lucky" object or likeness on or above the earth) is breaking the Commandment. It does not forbid art as is noted on the Ark of the Covenant and in the Temple. Art and sculpture not used as an idol or a lucky piece or a piece of power (such as the power of having the image of a lion that one believes emits from a graven image) isn't forbidden.

Give it up., The second commandment is about clinging to the power of superstitions instead of having faith in God alone.

So you're cherry picking.

You make the commandment what you want it to be.

Thou shalt make no graven images of anything in heaven on earth or under the sea.

That is the prohibition

Christians use these graven images of what they think Jesus looked like in their religious ceremonies

FYI Jesus, was not a white guy with blue eyes as he seems to be depicted everywhere in the West

 

[Blues Man]

Contradictions? The Bible is full of (apparent) contradictions if you read it word for word without understanding that the Bible is made up of 70+ books written hundreds - if not thousands of years apart.

I can find you dozens of (apparent) contradictions other than that one commandment.

Is that what you were looking for? Or would you prefer understanding?

Here we go again.

I couldn't be reading the Bible the "right" way if I see the contradictions

 

[Ace Nova]

Here we go again.

I couldn't be reading the Bible the "right" way if I see the contradictions

You read the Bible any way you do. Has nothing to do with understanding.

 

[Blues Man]

You read the Bible any way you do. Has nothing to do with understanding.

Who are you to say I am misunderstanding anything?

 

[Ace Nova]

Who are you to say I am misunderstanding anything?

Quite the contrary. Obviously you understand what you read. Others may understand it differently. That's all.

 

[Blues Man]

Quite the contrary. Obviously you understand what you read. Others may understand it differently. That's all.

Which is the problem with religion.

 

[Ace Nova]

Which is the problem with religion.

100% agree there. Although I don't consider it a "problem" - more of a difference in understanding.

 

[Votto]

Satan answers the question, if God is good and loving, why is there so much evil in the world?

Exactly! If there is a loving God, then why does the democrat party exist?

Anyone?