Zone1 Faith is "Science"

[alang1216]

Can’t be the other way being there would have been nothing enclosing energy. The chicken has to come first.

What encloses the universe now? And where did the chicken come from?

 

[Cougarbear]

It comes from a mixing of the right molecules (to put it simplistic).

If an intelligence is responsible…where did it come from?

An intelligence would have to be eternal to act upon nothing. Nothing could not act upon nothing. Nothing ever could.

 

[Cougarbear]

What encloses the universe now? And where did the chicken come from?

From an intelligence. Again, nothing cannot come from nothing. Nothing ever could.

 

[alang1216]

From an intelligence. Again, nothing cannot come from nothing. Nothing ever could.

If you believe God is eternal why do you assert the universe wasn't eternal?

 

[Coyote]

An intelligence would have to be eternal to act upon nothing. Nothing could not act upon nothing. Nothing ever could.

So who created the intelligence?

 

[Cougarbear]

If you believe God is eternal why do you assert the universe wasn't

Because it isn’t. There was nothing and God was present and from nothing eventually came our universe. Most likely wasn’t the first or the only. Maybe or God wasn’t the first God. Eventually, you have to get back to one God and nothing. God could make a wave in the void or nothing.

 

[Cougarbear]

So who created the intelligence?

There was one that began this. No one creates the first. That’s what eternal means.

 

[Hawkins]

Humans rely on faith to get to truth of any kind. Science doesn't rely on evidence to get to scientific truth. Science only works on repeatable phenomena while a truth is confirmed when the repeatition is predictable and falsifiable. ToE and BBT are hypothesis which can never be confirmed as they don't have the characteristics of repeating themselves. Alternatively speaking, it's out of human capability to make evolution (if exists) repeat itself for any theory (hypothesis) to be confirmed scientifically. So is BBT.

Now scientists can repeatedly examine the existence of black holes. They did so through expensive equipment not accessible to common folks. Thus humankind need to believe with faith what the scientists conclude through their research using rare equipment not accessible to us. That's how our reality operates. We need faith to believe what the eyewitness told us to get to a truth, that is, we need to believe the testimonies with faith in order to get to a truth. Or else, the expensive equipment need to be made available to common folks for them to get to the evidence as well.

We get to scientific truth by believing the testimonies of the eyewitnesses who are our scientists. Atheists are fooled by Satan to believe otherwise.

2 Corinthians 4:4:
The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

The only thing in this thread which can be concretely evidenced is the above verse.

 

[alang1216]

Because it isn’t. There was nothing and God was present and from nothing eventually came our universe. Most likely wasn’t the first or the only. Maybe or God wasn’t the first God. Eventually, you have to get back to one God and nothing. God could make a wave in the void or nothing.

So the only evidence you need is a creation story, Genesis, from the Bronze Age. Got it. Why that one, every civilization has a different story, why do you think that one the ONLY accurate one? You don't believe in abiogenesis or evolution since no one either saw it happen or can duplicate it in a lab yet you accept a supernatural story no one saw happen or can duplicate in a lab.

 

[Cougarbear]

So the only evidence you need is a creation story, Genesis, from the Bronze Age. Got it. Why that one, every civilization has a different story, why do you think that one the ONLY accurate one? You don't believe in abiogenesis or evolution since no one either saw it happen or can duplicate it in a lab yet you accept a supernatural story no one saw happen or can duplicate in a lab.

You keep side stepping the real issue. Nothing can’t produce something. It atheists that claim something came from nothing. Prove it. Hawkins said a flash or wiggle happened. From what? And that was just about our universe. No one knows for sure but an intelligence we don’t understand had to be the only reason. He has always existed. The only beginning was the organization of this universe. And it’s the only important thing to know for our eternal exaltation and progression. We don’t have all the answers either since it’s not important.

 

[alang1216]

You keep side stepping the real issue. Nothing can’t produce something.

The issue is that you state the universe came from nothing but you offer no evidence.

It atheists that claim something came from nothing. Prove it.

Some atheists may claim that, I say I don't know the answer. Of course it is theist who claim the universe was created from nothing. Prove it.

Hawkins said a flash or wiggle happened. From what? And that was just about our universe. No one knows for sure but an intelligence we don’t understand had to be the only reason.

Yet left no physical evidence? You certainly are sure about something you don't understand.

He has always existed.

Evidence?

The only beginning was the organization of this universe. And it’s the only important thing to know for our eternal exaltation and progression. We don’t have all the answers either since it’s not important.

You have plenty of answers, it is evidence you don't have.

 

[Votto]

As usual, the Left owns the language or twists it to their liking

Evolution does not address our origins, abiogenesis does that and there is zero proof to it's conclusion that life came about by accident.

In fact, the evidence points the other way.

 

[alang1216]

As usual, the Left owns the language or twists it to their liking

Evolution does not address our origins, abiogenesis does that and there is zero proof to it's conclusion that life came about by accident.

In fact, the evidence points the other way.

What the Left apparently owns is science and honesty. This strawman video is absurd in it's stupidity. It is analogous to saying put a lot of airplane parts into a giant bag and shake it; what are the odds you shake yourself an operational airplane. Since the odds are essentially zero, airplanes can not possibly exist.

 

[Votto]

What the Left apparently owns is science and honesty. This strawman video is absurd in it's stupidity. It is analogous to saying put a lot of airplane parts into a giant bag and shake it; what are the odds you shake yourself an operational airplane. Since the odds are essentially zero, airplanes can not possibly exist.

So it is easier to assemble an airplane than a cell?

Do tell.



Thanks Mr. Honesty for the good laugh.

 

[alang1216]

So it is easier to assemble an airplane than a cell?

Do tell.



Thanks Mr. Honesty for the good laugh.

Just pointing out the Wright brothers didn't build a 747 as their first airplane.

 

[Cougarbear]

The issue is that you state the universe came from nothing but you offer no evidence.


Some atheists may claim that, I say I don't know the answer. Of course it is theist who claim the universe was created from nothing. Prove it.


Yet left no physical evidence? You certainly are sure about something you don't understand.


Evidence?


You have plenty of answers, it is evidence you don't have.

LOL! You don't have the evidence that the universe came into existence without nothing. That's your claim. My claim is the Godhead organized this universe. Either from matter not yet formed or from nothing except the Godhead's will upon the void. You claim the Big Bang formed the universe. So, where did the matter from the Big Bang come from? Hawkins theory is that there was nothing and then, poof, here is all is! Something cannot come from nothing, Nothing ever could. (You might recall this statement from a song in The Sound of Music.
So, here is my theory: Intelligence has always existed. There never was a beginning nor will there be an end for intelligences. The greatest of intelligences became the first God. Whether that is our Father in Heaven or His Father in the universe He came from or back even further. We also have always existed in the form of intelligence. Cant tell you if our intelligence has any mass or form of energy either. At some point, our Father in Heaven's intelligence was placed into a spirit body created by His Celestial Parents (mother and father). His spirit with intelligence descended to a world much like our earth in a different universe (mansion). Father (and mother) were tested on their faith in their Godhead and were resurrected to their Celestial Kingdom (mansion). Eventually, Father (and mother) were given a universe to form and rule over and have spirit children as well to test and as well. This means we have always existed as matter, energy, intelligences cannot be created nor destroyed. Just changed and manipulated. We are therefore, literally brother and sisters because we are all spirit children of our Heavenly Parents. And, we fight and bicker as siblings do. So brother alang, may God our Father teach you patience.

 

[alang1216]

LOL! You don't have the evidence that the universe came into existence without nothing. That's your claim. My claim is the Godhead organized this universe. Either from matter not yet formed or from nothing except the Godhead's will upon the void. You claim the Big Bang formed the universe. So, where did the matter from the Big Bang come from? Hawkins theory is that there was nothing and then, poof, here is all is! Something cannot come from nothing, Nothing ever could. (You might recall this statement from a song in The Sound of Music.
So, here is my theory: Intelligence has always existed. There never was a beginning nor will there be an end for intelligences. The greatest of intelligences became the first God. Whether that is our Father in Heaven or His Father in the universe He came from or back even further. We also have always existed in the form of intelligence. Cant tell you if our intelligence has any mass or form of energy either. At some point, our Father in Heaven's intelligence was placed into a spirit body created by His Celestial Parents (mother and father). His spirit with intelligence descended to a world much like our earth in a different universe (mansion). Father (and mother) were tested on their faith in their Godhead and were resurrected to their Celestial Kingdom (mansion). Eventually, Father (and mother) were given a universe to form and rule over and have spirit children as well to test and as well. This means we have always existed as matter, energy, intelligences cannot be created nor destroyed. Just changed and manipulated. We are therefore, literally brother and sisters because we are all spirit children of our Heavenly Parents. And, we fight and bicker as siblings do. So brother alang, may God our Father teach you patience.

I never realized we can write our own scripture and biography of God. Well you certainly did an imaginative job, evening bringing in the Sound of Music, nice touch. I guess now you'll have to start your own church?

 

[Cougarbear]

I never realized we can write our own scripture and biography of God. Well you certainly did an imaginative job, evening bringing in the Sound of Music, nice touch. I guess now you'll have to start your own church?

Not really. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints had a prophet that once said, "Man is now as God once was. As God is now, man may become." Jesus said that we are gods in embryo learning as he repeated Psalms 82:6. The Church also teaches that we are literally spirit children of our Heavenly Parents. In a book of scripture we have, the Pearl of Great Price, Abraham 3:19 says, "And the Lord said unto me: These two facts do exist, that there are two spirits, one being more intelligent than the other; there shall be another more intelligent than they; I am the Lord thy God, I am more intelligent than they all." In verse 22, "Now the Lord had shown unto me, Abraham, the intelligences that were organized before the world was; and among all these there were many of the noble and great ones;" When it comes to placing the intelligences into spirit bodies, verse 23 sort of eludes to this, "And God saw these souls that they were good, and he stood in the midst of them, and he said: These I will make my rulers; for he stood among those that were spirits, and he saw that they were good; and he said unto me: Abraham, thou art one of them; thou wast chosen before thou wast born." In the following verses, the spirits go down to earth as the earth is prepared for this purpose to see if we will do all that is commanded of us. Also, the battle between Jehovah and Lucifer is mentioned here as well. Oh, and the creation and purpose continues in chapter 4. Check it out.

 

[alang1216]

Not really. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints had a prophet that once said, "Man is now as God once was. As God is now, man may become." Jesus said that we are gods in embryo learning as he repeated Psalms 82:6. The Church also teaches that we are literally spirit children of our Heavenly Parents. In a book of scripture we have, the Pearl of Great Price, Abraham 3:19 says, "And the Lord said unto me: These two facts do exist, that there are two spirits, one being more intelligent than the other; there shall be another more intelligent than they; I am the Lord thy God, I am more intelligent than they all." In verse 22, "Now the Lord had shown unto me, Abraham, the intelligences that were organized before the world was; and among all these there were many of the noble and great ones;" When it comes to placing the intelligences into spirit bodies, verse 23 sort of eludes to this, "And God saw these souls that they were good, and he stood in the midst of them, and he said: These I will make my rulers; for he stood among those that were spirits, and he saw that they were good; and he said unto me: Abraham, thou art one of them; thou wast chosen before thou wast born." In the following verses, the spirits go down to earth as the earth is prepared for this purpose to see if we will do all that is commanded of us. Also, the battle between Jehovah and Lucifer is mentioned here as well. Oh, and the creation and purpose continues in chapter 4. Check it out.

My apologies, I didn't realize I was conversing with a Mormon and you do indeed have your own scripture. I've known a number of Mormons and have found them to be the nicest most honest, sincere, and religious folk I know, so kudos for that.

I'm not too familiar with Mormon scripture but what little I know of their science, I'm not impressed by. But at least I see where you get your ideas.

 

[Foxfyre]

"Faith" is the belief in something that cannot be proven empirically. Leftists' embrace of Evolution Theory is "religious," psychologically speaking. The reason why they love it is because they think it renders religion moot.

Most components of the Theory of Evolution I don't quarrel with because the conclusions are quite reasonable and some even probable. But observation, reason, logic are every bit as much part of the scientific process as test tube or petri culture experiments or testing the age of bones, rocks, petrified wood etc.

Einstein did not believe in a personal god, a Creator who called all this into being or a sentient being that involves itself with its creation. But when Einstein said he believed in Spinoza's god, i.e. some form of intelligence guiding much of the process of evolution, he was basing that on observation, logic, reason of the improbability that so many things resulted purely from natural selection or chance.

His observation was no less scientific than that of the advocates of the 'big bang theory' or those who speculate that life did evolve out of lifelessness. That is why I think any good science curriculum has to acknowledge intelligent design as one scientific theory even if other theories are taught as more testable.

Real science is never certain, allows questions, holds open the door for new and better information that could change our perspectives and conclusions in everything. At the same time it can make educated conclusions based on the available information that it has while realizing we are likely in our scientific knowledge infancy and only have a tiny fraction of all the science there is to know.

I think as many of us have pondered religious beliefs and theories and have come to our own conclusions, so is the case with scientists. And I don't doubt for a minute that when we all--religionist, scientists, philosophers, great thinkers etc.--get to heaven, we're all going to have a huge laugh at how much of all this we got wrong.