Facts and Logic, Israel

[Marc39]

Palestine is recognized by about 130 countries, Israel by about 90.

You're severely uneducated. No wonder you have no reputational points.

Israel is the only state in the world recognized by both the former League of Nations and the UN.

Fakestinians are not members of the UN nor by the League of Nations

Palestine was a European invention [Romans] not recognized by the Arabs.

Historian Bernard Lewis...

For Arabs, the term Palestine was unacceptable. For Muslims it was alien and irrelevant. The main objection for them was that it seemed to assert a separate entity which politically conscious Arabs in Palestine and elsewhere denied. For them there was no such thing as a country called Palestine. The region which the British called Palestine was merely a separated part of a larger whole [Syria]. For a long time organized and articulate Arab political opinion was virtually unanimous on this point.

The Palestine entity, formally established and defined by Britain, was formally abolished in 1948 with the termination of the Mandate.

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Faith-Power-Religion-Politics-Middle/dp/019514421X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1292054205&sr=8-1]Amazon.com: Faith and Power: Religion and Politics in the Middle East (9780195144215): Bernard Lewis: Books[/ame]



Your lesson in reality.

 

[Marc39]

Borders is a particularly sticky point for Israel. Palestine has had defined, recognized, uncontested, and unchanged borders since 1922. Israel has no borders.

What does this mean? If Israel had legally acquired any land, the line between its land and land that is not Israel's would be recognized as its border. Israel has never legally acquired any land. Israel sits inside Palestine's borders with no legal claim on any Palestinian land.

Birdbrain, borders were set in 1922 by the League of Nations, from the Jordan River to the Med. Sea.

No wonder you have no reputational points.

 

[Marc39]

Not to change the subject but what was the border of Saudi Arabia in the early 1900's, get an old atlas, from close to lets say prior to 1920, give or take. I think its important to note the border of Saudi Arabia in relation to the border of Palestine in lets say 1900.

Er, Palestine did not exist in 1900. Nor did Palestinians exist. In 1900, Palestine was merely southern Syria and southern Lebanon.

No wonder you have no reputational points.

Middle East Historian Bernard Lewis...

After the Ottoman conquest in 1516-17, Palestine was no longer used by Muslims, for whom it had never meant more than an administrative sub-district, and it had been forgotten even in that limited sense. In the final phase of this rule before the British conquest, Palestine was part of Beirut.

At first, the country of which Palestine was a part was felt to be Syria. In Ottoman times, that is, immediately before the coming of the British, Palestine had indeed been a part of a larger Syrian whole from which it was in no way distinguished whether by language, culture, education, administration, political allegiance, or any other significant respect.

The Palestinian Arabs' basic sense of corporate historic identity was, at different levels, Muslim or Arab or -- for some -- Syrian; it is significant that even by the end of the Mandate in 1948, after 30 years of separate Palestinian political existence, there were virtually no books in Arabic on the history of Palestine.

http://www.amazon.com/Middle-East-B...ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1288529772&sr=8-5[/url

 

[P F Tinmore]

Palestine is recognized by about 130 countries, Israel by about 90.

You're severely uneducated. No wonder you have no reputational points.

Israel is the only state in the world recognized by both the former League of Nations and the UN.

Fakestinians are not members of the UN nor by the League of Nations

Palestine was a European invention [Romans] not recognized by the Arabs.

Historian Bernard Lewis...

For Arabs, the term Palestine was unacceptable. For Muslims it was alien and irrelevant. The main objection for them was that it seemed to assert a separate entity which politically conscious Arabs in Palestine and elsewhere denied. For them there was no such thing as a country called Palestine. The region which the British called Palestine was merely a separated part of a larger whole [Syria]. For a long time organized and articulate Arab political opinion was virtually unanimous on this point.

The Palestine entity, formally established and defined by Britain, was formally abolished in 1948 with the termination of the Mandate.

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Faith-Power-Religion-Politics-Middle/dp/019514421X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1292054205&sr=8-1]Amazon.com: Faith and Power: Religion and Politics in the Middle East (9780195144215): Bernard Lewis: Books[/ame]



Your lesson in reality.

Not so, nutso. Post a League of Nations document that mentions Israel.

 

[Marc39]

Palestine is recognized by about 130 countries, Israel by about 90.

You're severely uneducated. No wonder you have no reputational points.

Israel is the only state in the world recognized by both the former League of Nations and the UN.

Fakestinians are not members of the UN nor by the League of Nations

Palestine was a European invention [Romans] not recognized by the Arabs.

Historian Bernard Lewis...

The Palestine entity, formally established and defined by Britain, was formally abolished in 1948 with the termination of the Mandate.

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Faith-Power-Religion-Politics-Middle/dp/019514421X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1292054205&sr=8-1]Amazon.com: Faith and Power: Religion and Politics in the Middle East (9780195144215): Bernard Lewis: Books[/ame]



Your lesson in reality.

Not so, nutso. Post a League of Nations document that mentions Israel.

Yes, so, uneducated one with zero reputational points.

"When it comes to Islamic studies, Bernard Lewis is the father of us all. With brilliance, integrity, and extraordinary mastery of languages and sources, he has led the way for Jewish and Christian investigators seeking to understand the Muslim world."--National Review

"No scholar of Islam in the Western world has more thoroughly earned the respect of generalists and academics alike than Bernard Lewis."--Baltimore Sun

"No one has done more to examine the interactions of the West and the Middle East. Lewis' book will remain a landmark in the study of the modern Middle East."--Foreign Affairs

"Lewis's scholarship is prodigious....He avoids dogmatic positions himself and sees dogma as something to be analyzed. It is this sense of nuance, of historical setting, of honesty to texts, that informs the essays in Islam and the West."--The New York Review of Books

"Professor Lewis never fails in respect for the culture he has illuminated so brilliantly...this is a book for everyone interested in the contemporary evolution of the Islamic world"
Middle East International

Lewis's academic credentials are impeccable... the collection of essays, articles, reviews, lectures and contributions to encyclopaedias gives a glimpse of his towering scholarship.' -- Michael Binyon THE TIMES

"Lewis brings to this work not only his superb technical competence as a historian and mastery of the requisite Near Eastern and European languages but also an underlying humanism which raises his scholarship above a purely academic level. For this reason this book should be read by anyone who is interested in the Middle East, past and present"---CHOICE

"Lewis has done us all--Muslim and non-Muslim alike--a remarkable service.... The book's great strength, and its claim upon our attention, [is that] it offers a long view in the midst of so much short-term and confusing punditry on television, in the op-ed pages, on campuses and in strategic studies think tanks." --Paul Kennedy, The New York Times Book Review

Brilliant...weaves a seamless web between past and present. In collection of remarkable learning and range Mr. Lewis takes us, as he alone among today's historians and interpreters of Islam can, from the early encoutners of Christendom and Islam to today's Islamic dilemmas. To read Mr. Lewis on Europe's obsession with the Ottoman Turks, the raging battle between secularism and fundamentalism in the Muslim world, or the difficulty of studying other peoples' histories is to be taken through a treacherous terrain by the coolest and most reassuring of guides. You are in the hands of the Islamic world's foremost living historian. Of that world's ordeal he writes with the greatest care and authority and no small measure of sympathy."--Fouad Ajami, writing in The Wall Street Journal

"A timely and provocative contribution to the current raging debate about the tensions between the West and the Islamic world.... One wishes leaders in the Islamic world would pay heed to some of Lewis' themes." --Stanley Reed, Business Week

"The press of world events has transformed Bernard Lewis into the most public sort of intellectual, well into the emeritus phase of his scholarly career. His 2002 study, What Went Wrong?, shed much welcome, if controversial, light on the divergent courses of Islamic and Western civilization at a moment when the question could not be more urgent. Now in a new collection of essays, From Babel to Dragomans, Lewis teases out the implications of his earlier argument in a wide range of settings, from traditional Middle Eastern feasts and rituals to the anti-Western propaganda campaigns of al Qaeda."--Chris Lehmann, The Washington Post

 

[P F Tinmore]

You're severely uneducated. No wonder you have no reputational points.

Israel is the only state in the world recognized by both the former League of Nations and the UN.

Fakestinians are not members of the UN nor by the League of Nations

Palestine was a European invention [Romans] not recognized by the Arabs.

Historian Bernard Lewis...



Amazon.com: Faith and Power: Religion and Politics in the Middle East (9780195144215): Bernard Lewis: Books



Your lesson in reality.

Not so, nutso. Post a League of Nations document that mentions Israel.

Yes, so, uneducated one with zero reputational points.

"When it comes to Islamic studies, Bernard Lewis is the father of us all. With brilliance, integrity, and extraordinary mastery of languages and sources, he has led the way for Jewish and Christian investigators seeking to understand the Muslim world."--National Review

"No scholar of Islam in the Western world has more thoroughly earned the respect of generalists and academics alike than Bernard Lewis."--Baltimore Sun

"No one has done more to examine the interactions of the West and the Middle East. Lewis' book will remain a landmark in the study of the modern Middle East."--Foreign Affairs

"Lewis's scholarship is prodigious....He avoids dogmatic positions himself and sees dogma as something to be analyzed. It is this sense of nuance, of historical setting, of honesty to texts, that informs the essays in Islam and the West."--The New York Review of Books

"Professor Lewis never fails in respect for the culture he has illuminated so brilliantly...this is a book for everyone interested in the contemporary evolution of the Islamic world"
Middle East International

Lewis's academic credentials are impeccable... the collection of essays, articles, reviews, lectures and contributions to encyclopaedias gives a glimpse of his towering scholarship.' -- Michael Binyon THE TIMES

"Lewis brings to this work not only his superb technical competence as a historian and mastery of the requisite Near Eastern and European languages but also an underlying humanism which raises his scholarship above a purely academic level. For this reason this book should be read by anyone who is interested in the Middle East, past and present"---CHOICE

"Lewis has done us all--Muslim and non-Muslim alike--a remarkable service.... The book's great strength, and its claim upon our attention, [is that] it offers a long view in the midst of so much short-term and confusing punditry on television, in the op-ed pages, on campuses and in strategic studies think tanks." --Paul Kennedy, The New York Times Book Review

Brilliant...weaves a seamless web between past and present. In collection of remarkable learning and range Mr. Lewis takes us, as he alone among today's historians and interpreters of Islam can, from the early encoutners of Christendom and Islam to today's Islamic dilemmas. To read Mr. Lewis on Europe's obsession with the Ottoman Turks, the raging battle between secularism and fundamentalism in the Muslim world, or the difficulty of studying other peoples' histories is to be taken through a treacherous terrain by the coolest and most reassuring of guides. You are in the hands of the Islamic world's foremost living historian. Of that world's ordeal he writes with the greatest care and authority and no small measure of sympathy."--Fouad Ajami, writing in The Wall Street Journal

"A timely and provocative contribution to the current raging debate about the tensions between the West and the Islamic world.... One wishes leaders in the Islamic world would pay heed to some of Lewis' themes." --Stanley Reed, Business Week

"The press of world events has transformed Bernard Lewis into the most public sort of intellectual, well into the emeritus phase of his scholarly career. His 2002 study, What Went Wrong?, shed much welcome, if controversial, light on the divergent courses of Islamic and Western civilization at a moment when the question could not be more urgent. Now in a new collection of essays, From Babel to Dragomans, Lewis teases out the implications of his earlier argument in a wide range of settings, from traditional Middle Eastern feasts and rituals to the anti-Western propaganda campaigns of al Qaeda."--Chris Lehmann, The Washington Post

What does all that smokescreen crapola have to do with a League of Nations document mentioning Israel?

 

[mdn2000]

The League of Nations did not make Israel, Menachem Begin made Israel. Since when do we look for other Nations to decide who gets to live or die.

So now its up to a majority of Nations to decide, the majority of Nations are undereducated turd world hell holes.

Jews reconquered Israel, its as simple as that, that left egg on the Arabs face and now they want to get it off.

The Arabs will never stop, they cannot, its their culture. The fact that Israel kicked the Arabs ass means there is no Allah, this is a religious war by fanatics, Iran calls for and is planning the destruction of Israel at the same time they are planning on stoning another woman to death, Saudi Arabia calls for the destruction of Israel and still puts bags over the women head. Iraq had the murderer Saddam, how about Osama bin Laden, those against Israel are on the side of the tyrants, dictators, and murderers.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The League of Nations did not make Israel, Menachem Begin made Israel. Since when do we look for other Nations to decide who gets to live or die.

So now its up to a majority of Nations to decide, the majority of Nations are undereducated turd world hell holes.

Jews reconquered Israel, its as simple as that, that left egg on the Arabs face and now they want to get it off.

The Arabs will never stop, they cannot, its their culture. The fact that Israel kicked the Arabs ass means there is no Allah, this is a religious war by fanatics, Iran calls for and is planning the destruction of Israel at the same time they are planning on stoning another woman to death, Saudi Arabia calls for the destruction of Israel and still puts bags over the women head. Iraq had the murderer Saddam, how about Osama bin Laden, those against Israel are on the side of the tyrants, dictators, and murderers.

So, do you think Israel will ever win the war with the Palestinians?

 

[mdn2000]

The League of Nations did not make Israel, Menachem Begin made Israel. Since when do we look for other Nations to decide who gets to live or die.

So now its up to a majority of Nations to decide, the majority of Nations are undereducated turd world hell holes.

Jews reconquered Israel, its as simple as that, that left egg on the Arabs face and now they want to get it off.

The Arabs will never stop, they cannot, its their culture. The fact that Israel kicked the Arabs ass means there is no Allah, this is a religious war by fanatics, Iran calls for and is planning the destruction of Israel at the same time they are planning on stoning another woman to death, Saudi Arabia calls for the destruction of Israel and still puts bags over the women head. Iraq had the murderer Saddam, how about Osama bin Laden, those against Israel are on the side of the tyrants, dictators, and murderers.

So, do you think Israel will ever win the war with the Palestinians?

I pray we one day have politicians who quit appeasing the states of Islam and demand Liberty and Justice for all men.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The League of Nations did not make Israel, Menachem Begin made Israel. Since when do we look for other Nations to decide who gets to live or die.

So now its up to a majority of Nations to decide, the majority of Nations are undereducated turd world hell holes.

Jews reconquered Israel, its as simple as that, that left egg on the Arabs face and now they want to get it off.

The Arabs will never stop, they cannot, its their culture. The fact that Israel kicked the Arabs ass means there is no Allah, this is a religious war by fanatics, Iran calls for and is planning the destruction of Israel at the same time they are planning on stoning another woman to death, Saudi Arabia calls for the destruction of Israel and still puts bags over the women head. Iraq had the murderer Saddam, how about Osama bin Laden, those against Israel are on the side of the tyrants, dictators, and murderers.

So, do you think Israel will ever win the war with the Palestinians?

I pray we one day have politicians who quit appeasing the states of Islam and demand Liberty and Justice for all men.

The point is that Palestinians are Muslims, Christians, and Jews. None of them, as a religion, claim exclusive rights to Palestine. As a diverse group they do have exclusive rights to Palestine. They are the indigenous population. An important fact is that none of them, including the Jews, wanted a foreign takeover of their country.

This is not an Arab or Muslim versus Jew conflict. It is a Palestinians versus foreigners conflict. The Palestinians be they Muslims, Christians, or Jews have the legal and moral high ground. Palestine is their country. It does not belong to foreigners.

 

[mdn2000]

So, do you think Israel will ever win the war with the Palestinians?

I pray we one day have politicians who quit appeasing the states of Islam and demand Liberty and Justice for all men.

The point is that Palestinians are Muslims, Christians, and Jews. None of them, as a religion, claim exclusive rights to Palestine. As a diverse group they do have exclusive rights to Palestine. They are the indigenous population. An important fact is that none of them, including the Jews, wanted a foreign takeover of their country.

This is not an Arab or Muslim versus Jew conflict. It is a Palestinians versus foreigners conflict. The Palestinians be they Muslims, Christians, or Jews have the legal and moral high ground. Palestine is their country. It does not belong to foreigners.

So we agree, Israel it is, as the United States see things, all the people you mentioned live in peace side by side within the Jewish communities.

 

[Marc39]

The point is that Palestinians are Muslims, Christians, and Jews. None of them, as a religion, claim exclusive rights to Palestine.

Incorrect, as usual. No reputational points for you

The Davidic Monarchy established sovereignty in Judea, the correct historical geographical name ofr the land, from which "Jewish" is derived, 3000 thousand years ago and several centuries before Muslims and Christians.

"Palestine" is a European invention created by the Romans when they renamed Judea, a reference to the Philistines who were Aegean, not Semitic. There is no mention of Palestine in the Hebrew Bible, Christian Bible, Quran or any ancient historical documents or archaeological artifacts.

The League of Nations established sovereignty over Judea for the modern state of Israel in 1922...

Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country

Both House of the US Congress endorsed the League of Nations in this joint resolution...

The United States Congressional Record
1922 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
NATIONAL HOME FOR THE JEWISH PEOPLE JUNE 30, 1922
HOUSE RESOLUTION 360 - UNANIMOUSLY ADOPTED

Palestine of today, the land we now know as Palestine, was peopled by the Jews from the dawn of history until the Roman era. It is the ancestral homeland of the Jewish people. They were driven from it by force by the relentless Roman military machine and for centuries prevented from returning. At different periods various alien people succeeded them but the Jewish race had left an indelible impress upon the land.

Today it is a Jewish country. Every name, every landmark, every monument and every trace of whatever civilization remaining there is still Jewish. And it has ever since remained a hope, a longing, as expressed in their prayers for these nearly 2,000 years. No other people has ever claimed Palestine as their national home. No other people has ever shown an aptitude or indicated a genuine desire to make it their homeland. The land has been ruled by foreigners. Only since the beginning of the modern Zionist effort may it be said that a creative, cultural, and economic force has entered Palestine. The Jewish Nation was forced from its natural home. It did not go because it wanted to.
A perusal of Jewish history, a reading of Josephus, will convince the most skeptical that the grandest fight that was ever put up against an enemy was put up by the Jew. He never thought of leaving Palestine. But he was driven out. But did he, when driven out, give up his hope of getting back? Jewish history and Jewish literature give the answer to the question. The Jew even has a fast day devoted to the day of destruction of the Jewish homeland.

Never throughout history did they give up hope of returning there. I am told that 90 per cent of the Jews today are praying for the return of the Jewish people to its own home. The best minds among them believe in the necessity of reestablishing their Jewish land. To my mind there is something prophetic in the fact that during the ages no other nation has taken over Palestine and held it in the sense of a homeland; and there is something providential in the fact that for 1,800 years it has remained in desolation as if waiting for the return of the people.

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0688123635/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=0688123627&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0HX00TRZAFXPP1PG6MNR]Amazon.com: Israel: A History (9780688123635): Martin Gilbert: Books[/ame]

 

[P F Tinmore]

I pray we one day have politicians who quit appeasing the states of Islam and demand Liberty and Justice for all men.

The point is that Palestinians are Muslims, Christians, and Jews. None of them, as a religion, claim exclusive rights to Palestine. As a diverse group they do have exclusive rights to Palestine. They are the indigenous population. An important fact is that none of them, including the Jews, wanted a foreign takeover of their country.

This is not an Arab or Muslim versus Jew conflict. It is a Palestinians versus foreigners conflict. The Palestinians be they Muslims, Christians, or Jews have the legal and moral high ground. Palestine is their country. It does not belong to foreigners.

So we agree, Israel it is, as the United States see things, all the people you mentioned live in peace side by side within the Jewish communities.

Not true. Muslims, Christians and Jews living in Palestine have more rights than in Israel.

Jews living under occupation in Israel.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enTbBx622-8[/ame]

Christians living under occupation in Israel

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImueOLYl4LE[/ame]

Muslims living under occupation in Israel

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKFW3vb_seg&feature=related[/ame]

 

[Marc39]

Christians United For Israel
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6I8D87oAgas[/ame]

 

[Marc39]

Jews living under occupation in Israel.

The UN ranks Israel among the 15 best countries to live in (out of 170 countries) in the world and with the highest qualities of life, emphasizing political and cultural freedom and equality in education, healthcare, life expectancy and income, ahead of England, Spain, Greece, Italy, Finland, Belgium, Denmark, Luxembourg and Austria

Statistics | Human Development Reports (HDR) | United Nations Development Programme (UNDP)

Human Development is a development paradigm that is about much more than the rise or fall of national incomes. It is about creating an environment in which people can develop their full potential and lead productive, creative lives in accord with their needs and interests. People are the real wealth of nations. Development is thus about expanding the choices people have to lead lives that they value. And it is thus about much more than economic growth, which is only a means —if a very important one —of enlarging people’s choices.

Fundamental to enlarging these choices is building human capabilities —the range of things that people can do or be in life. The most basic capabilities for human development are to lead long and healthy lives, to be knowledgeable, to have access to the resources needed for a decent standard of living and to be able to participate in the life of the community. Without these, many choices are simply not available, and many opportunities in life remain inaccessible.

 

[Marc39]

Muslims living under occupation in Israel

Harvard University Kennedy School of Government: 8 out of 10 Israeli Arabs and Muslims prefer Israel over any other country in the world, including Arab and Muslim countries.
Center for Public Leadership - Coexistence


I am an Israeli Arab and I support Israel.

Why? Because, I can express myself freely. I'm a free man living in a free country. With my family situation, if I was living in an Arab country, I will be killed long time ago. With my mind and my way of living and my way of thinking, I'm surely already have been killed long time ago.

Why? Because, I love freedom. I adore liberty. And, in Israel, simply, you can express that. Can you imagine if you were a Jewish man living in an Arab country and Parliament member and trying to curse your country, they will kill you straight away. Look what Israel is doing with Arabs in Parliament, they listen, it's a democracy, no problem. They [Arabs] are shouting freely against Israel in the Parliament. This is the truth.

I'm proud to be an Arab living in Israel. I know Arabs they will hate me and kill me, but I don't care. I care about the truth. The truth is there is no much problems with Arabs in Israel. Poor people in Israel if they want to study in the university and clever, they can apply to the university and if they are really wise they can go study free. And, they don't have to pay even if they are an Arab. Israel gives you an opportunity to learn free.

There are very good things in Israel. Health security, in Israel if you are Arab and have any medical problem, you can be fixed for free, You don't pay a penny. They give you life security, no problem. You can work like everyone and you get your pension. Everyone in Israel have a pension. Arabs and Jewish they get the same. Arab doctor and Jewish doctor, they get the same salary. Arab teacher and Jewish teacher, they get the same salary.

Arab student and Jewish student they get the same education. It's the same. The dreams of life, quite the same. If you are good citizen, you have no problems. You can live free. You can go wherever you like. You can choose, you can get inside any group you want.

Honestly, I served in the Israeli army. What is the problem? You want to tell me Arabs don't kill each other? Look in Iraq, they are brothers living in the same neighborhood and they are killing each other. I'm living here, my family is here, everyone I care about is here--my wife, my daughters is here. This is the truth: I'm proud being an Arab living in Israel.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbrIWyEhl8A[/ame]

 

[mdn2000]

Tinmore, whatever, I know I wont change your mind, you post as a bigot, as someone who hates, I state this and you will be nice and claim to be a dove but your threads tell the story.

I wont be around nor do I have the time as well as posting propaganda is not much to debate. At this point I see Tinmore will not attempt to address the premise of my thread, that says it all.

Facts and Logic stands at 99% accurate.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Tinmore, whatever, I know I wont change your mind, you post as a bigot, as someone who hates, I state this and you will be nice and claim to be a dove but your threads tell the story.

I wont be around nor do I have the time as well as posting propaganda is not much to debate. At this point I see Tinmore will not attempt to address the premise of my thread, that says it all.

Facts and Logic stands at 99% accurate.

Much of Facts and Logic is based on false premise. Their conclusions follow from there. I responded the best I could under those circumstances.

 

[Marc39]

Tinmore, whatever, I know I wont change your mind, you post as a bigot, as someone who hates, I state this and you will be nice and claim to be a dove but your threads tell the story.

I wont be around nor do I have the time as well as posting propaganda is not much to debate. At this point I see Tinmore will not attempt to address the premise of my thread, that says it all.

Facts and Logic stands at 99% accurate.

Much of Facts and Logic is based on false premise. Their conclusions follow from there. I responded the best I could under those circumstances.

The "fact" is you have not even one reputational point, because your posts have no "logic"

 

[mdn2000]

I like the website;

F L A M E : Our Ads and Positions

This is an excellent reference for historical facts concerning the Arab war against Israel.

I have yet to find anyone who can present a fact that is contrary to the history presented on this site. I put this out here as a thread as a test to my statement and confidence. Personally, I pride myself on only presenting facts.

I guess its possible there might be something that is not correct on this site and if that be true I challenge anyone to find that fact and point it out to me.

And how can the Arabs possibly question Israel's existence since they have been involved with Israel in at least five major wars, in all of which they were decisively defeated.

FLAME: Israel’s “Right to Exist” (II): How could anyone question such a right?

The basis of the web site is the premise that Israel won land in defensive wars. The 1948 war was when Israel supposedly won what is called Israel proper from surrounding Arab countries.

The fact is that none of those countries lost the war. None of those countries surrendered to Israel. A cease fire was called by UN resolution. When the border arrangements were mentioned in the armistice agreements we find that the borders of Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Egypt, and Palestine remained unchanged from when they were defined by the League of Nations in 1922.

There was no Israeli land recognized by any Israeli borders.

The basis of the web site is the premise that Israel won land in defensive wars. The 1948 war was when Israel supposedly won what is called Israel proper from surrounding Arab countries

This statement is false, the basis of the website it to provide fact to dispel propaganda, you have confused the premise of an "ad", with the purpose of the website, that is a huge distinction.

Your statement is misleading, when speaking of such critical points in history details become important. Arab countries were not in possesion of Palestine, the British were.