F35 - superfighter or lame duck?

[Manonthestreet]

Flanker Radars in Beyond Visual Range Air Combat

 

[DrainBamage]

Gee didnt they declare it combat rdy yet they cant even send on a gravy run against isis

You still aren't making any sense. They have a planned deployment of active squadrons fill in, none of which included one in the Middle East. By the very nature of a newish aircact that is rapidly expanding it's base most of early jets will be assigned to training squadrons, that makes the most sense right? The first (and only) operational deployment has been the USMC squadron in Japan, they only have 10 F-35Bs but will get the remaining 6 to bring it up to full strength this year. The second is the F-35As at Hill AFB. I believe the third will be Marine Fighter Attack Squadron 211 based in Yuma but probably will deploy on an amphib.

One cannot conclude it "can't" do missions against ISIS just because there aren't in USAF squadrons operating in the Middle East yet, anymore than one could say the same thing about F-22 before they started using it in the ME theater.

Like I said you seem to have a very determined mindset to spin everything as negative about this plane even if it isn't a rational complaint, I have no idea why. Is it just trying to stick to your guns at this point after all the claims of not stealthy can't fight etc. look more and more ridiculous?

 

[DrainBamage]

Thats well outside our missile range with top two....If enemy is higher your missile range shortens ......

Yes because an F-35 that detected a SU-35 first (it also has a powerful radar and much smaller RCS) is going to just fly straight at the SU-35 until it is finally picked up by their radar.

Oh yeah, they won't since that wouldn't make any sense. F-35 sees SU-35 first (again, both have powerful radars but F-35's RCS order of magnitude smaller than 70s era design) then moves into a position behind the SU-35 for a kill shot, SU-35 never knows F-35 is there until AMRAAM goes active within no-escape.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Thats well outside our missile range with top two....If enemy is higher your missile range shortens ......

Yes because an F-35 that detected a SU-35 first (it also has a powerful radar and much smaller RCS) is going to just fly straight at the SU-35 until it is finally picked up by their radar.

Oh yeah, they won't since that wouldn't make any sense. F-35 sees SU-35 first (again, both have powerful radars but F-35's RCS order of magnitude smaller than 70s era design) then moves into a position behind the SU-35 for a kill shot, SU-35 never knows F-35 is there until AMRAAM goes active within no-escape.

The F-35A will enter the combat area with it's radar off. It will be feeding off of other aircraft outside the attack range. This includes both Air and Ground targets. Once he switches his radar on, every radar detector known to man will see him. The trick is to not use the radar unless you are out of range for attack. Let your buddies do the searches and targeting. That is just one scenario. There are others and the F-35 pilots are just learning these new tactics. It's tough to unlearn what you already know.

 

[DrainBamage]

Lockheed says in talks with Spain, Belgium, others on buying F-35s

"We are talking to several other countries - Switzerland, Belgium, Spain," Jeff Babione, Lockheed Martin's F-35 program leader, told reporters at the Avalon Airshow in Australia."There are quite a few other European nations that are looking at perhaps having the F-35 as an opportunity," Babione said. "We are starting to see other customers think about the F-35 being added to their fleet." Another person familiar with the discussions, who was not authorized to speak on the record, said that Finland was also in talks.

They are hearing the same shit as everyone else about how this plane performs and how it's cost is trending.

 

[Bleipriester]

Thats well outside our missile range with top two....If enemy is higher your missile range shortens ......

Yes because an F-35 that detected a SU-35 first (it also has a powerful radar and much smaller RCS) is going to just fly straight at the SU-35 until it is finally picked up by their radar.

Oh yeah, they won't since that wouldn't make any sense. F-35 sees SU-35 first (again, both have powerful radars but F-35's RCS order of magnitude smaller than 70s era design) then moves into a position behind the SU-35 for a kill shot, SU-35 never knows F-35 is there until AMRAAM goes active within no-escape.

Sounds very easy but it isn´t. Senseless claims of absolute superiority. No losses and bla bla bla. Nothing new. But always bs. See Zionists boasting of no losses while still losing their wars.

1982 Lebanon War - Wikipedia

Post–World War II air-to-air combat losses - Wikipedia

 

[Manonthestreet]

If it was so damn dominaNT at REDFLAG why will it take two three yrs just to confront ISIS with it????

 

[Daryl Hunt]

If it was so damn dominaNT at REDFLAG why will it take two three yrs just to confront ISIS with it????

You are too busy making an ass of yourself. It goes into that theater late this year or early next year.

But the questions comes to mind, like WWII, the US made the decision to keep using the prop planes when Jets could have been put into service. If you can use the old stuff and get the job done then it's foolish to use the new stuff. In the ME, if it is working don't change it. Unless you are one of the ones that have a saying of, "If it ain't broke, fix it.".

 

[Manonthestreet]

If it was so damn dominaNT at REDFLAG why will it take two three yrs just to confront ISIS with it????

You are too busy making an ass of yourself. It goes into that theater late this year or early next year.

But the questions comes to mind, like WWII, the US made the decision to keep using the prop planes when Jets could have been put into service. If you can use the old stuff and get the job done then it's foolish to use the new stuff. In the ME, if it is working don't change it. Unless you are one of the ones that have a saying of, "If it ain't broke, fix it.".

No it wont....2019 was what was just published

 

[DrainBamage]

If it was so damn dominaNT at REDFLAG why will it take two three yrs just to confront ISIS with it????

Your strange hatred of this airplane has really pushed you into some zone where you are willing to put aside all common sense just to attack it. Again I ask what has driven you to this bizarre state, is it just wounded pride over all your "can't fight" "isn't stealthy" type posts from before?

For your question to be serious you'd need to believe two things:

1. The dominance at Red Flag was fake. They convinced hundreds of pilots and ground staff from a dozen countries to collude on some lie about the F-35s performance at Red Flag. This is in addition to the other exercises where it has dominated, and countless pilot accounts and surveys over it's performance. You might as well start posting in the conspiracy forum with all the mentally ill regulars there.

2. A plane that is only just starting to fill in active squadrons on a planned schedule, none of which are initially based in the Middle East, is somehow proof that this plane cannot function against ISIS. USAF has an operational squadron at Hill AFB. Standing up requires support and facilities on the ground, which they currently don't have in the Middle East and there is no urgent need for it.

You might as well ask in 2012 if the F-22 was so damned dominant why were they afraid to use it in Libya? You're seriously lost your shit here on the F-35 thing dude, you need to take a step back and reaccess how much effort you want to continue putting into these ridiculous contortions because you really do look like an ass with this stuff. I have no idea how it got so personal with you.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

If it was so damn dominaNT at REDFLAG why will it take two three yrs just to confront ISIS with it????

You are too busy making an ass of yourself. It goes into that theater late this year or early next year.

But the questions comes to mind, like WWII, the US made the decision to keep using the prop planes when Jets could have been put into service. If you can use the old stuff and get the job done then it's foolish to use the new stuff. In the ME, if it is working don't change it. Unless you are one of the ones that have a saying of, "If it ain't broke, fix it.".

No it wont....2019 was what was just published

Because you said so? I don't buy that. How about a cite on this one. You know, an official cite and not some crackpots opinion with an agenda.

 

[DrainBamage]

I think it will be interesting to see how far ManOnTheStreet is going to try to take this "F-35 can't perform" thing. Obviously the latest Red Flag results aren't enough since he's still countering it with the bizarre ME deployment logic. After a few more dominant exercises and dozens more pilots being interviewed saying how they can't see it will he still be in here stubbornly insisting it isn't stealthy and can't fight?

How long can stubbornness override common sense? Another year? Two years?

 

[DrainBamage]

F-35A Could Cost $80 Million With Multi-Year Orders, Lockheed Says

Lockheed Martin’s comment on potential unit costs of the F-35A follow a statement of the Pentagon’s Joint Strike Fighter program manager, Lt. Gen. Chris Bogdan, that a long-standing price target of $85 million in 2019 was not low enough. The price in 2019-20 should be $80 million, Bogdan said at the Australian International Airshow at Avalon, Geelong, this week. The most recently negotiated figure, for production lot 10, is $94.6 million. These prices include the aircraft’s Pratt & Whitney F135 engine and compare with the $60-65 million unit price of the F-16, a much smaller fighter, of 9.21 metric tons (20,300 lb.) empty weight. The F-35A’s empty weight is around 13.2 metric tons.

So much for the "three F-16s for the price of one F-35" bullshit that has been spouted in this thread. F-35A is already 94 million, on track for 85 million in 2019, and now they are talking about possibly 80 million. All this is unit price including the engine.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

F-35A Could Cost $80 Million With Multi-Year Orders, Lockheed Says

Lockheed Martin’s comment on potential unit costs of the F-35A follow a statement of the Pentagon’s Joint Strike Fighter program manager, Lt. Gen. Chris Bogdan, that a long-standing price target of $85 million in 2019 was not low enough. The price in 2019-20 should be $80 million, Bogdan said at the Australian International Airshow at Avalon, Geelong, this week. The most recently negotiated figure, for production lot 10, is $94.6 million. These prices include the aircraft’s Pratt & Whitney F135 engine and compare with the $60-65 million unit price of the F-16, a much smaller fighter, of 9.21 metric tons (20,300 lb.) empty weight. The F-35A’s empty weight is around 13.2 metric tons.

So much for the "three F-16s for the price of one F-35" bullshit that has been spouted in this thread. F-35A is already 94 million, on track for 85 million in 2019, and now they are talking about possibly 80 million. All this is unit price including the engine.

Careful, you might make boyinthealles head expload.

 

[Manonthestreet]

The second piece of the deployment was large force exercises and 4-ship training which is the core fighting force in the Eagle,” said Bladen. “With several other fighter airframes on the Gulf Coast, we were able to put together daily outnumbered scenarios that we cannot produce up here at Barnes. The last day of the trip we flew 4 F-15s and 4 F-22s against 14 "red air" fighters. For our training, we allowed the red air to regenerate after being killed by a blue air fighter. The final results of that mission: Blue Air killed 41 enemy aircraft and lost just one. While pretty phenomenal, perfection is our goal so the debrief focused on how we could have had a 41-0 ratio." 104th Fighter Wing Eagles on Target at United States Air Force's Weapons Systems Evaluation Program

F-35s present here but no talk of how wonderful they did.....

 

[Daryl Hunt]

The second piece of the deployment was large force exercises and 4-ship training which is the core fighting force in the Eagle,” said Bladen. “With several other fighter airframes on the Gulf Coast, we were able to put together daily outnumbered scenarios that we cannot produce up here at Barnes. The last day of the trip we flew 4 F-15s and 4 F-22s against 14 "red air" fighters. For our training, we allowed the red air to regenerate after being killed by a blue air fighter. The final results of that mission: Blue Air killed 41 enemy aircraft and lost just one. While pretty phenomenal, perfection is our goal so the debrief focused on how we could have had a 41-0 ratio." 104th Fighter Wing Eagles on Target at United States Air Force's Weapons Systems Evaluation Program

F-35s present here but no talk of how wonderful they did.....

During the entire exercise, there were a total of 3 losses for the F-35. One F-35A and 2 F-35Bs. All losses were during Ground attack which is the highest threat level you can get in. Not only are you being fired at by AA Assets, the Ground Assets with a real hardon for attack planes. The level of defense against any ground attack bird asset at this Red Flag was far more intense than anything they will meet in actual combat. Those 3 losses were the first day. It was turned into a learning curve and the Blue Force adapted.

 

[Manonthestreet]

The second piece of the deployment was large force exercises and 4-ship training which is the core fighting force in the Eagle,” said Bladen. “With several other fighter airframes on the Gulf Coast, we were able to put together daily outnumbered scenarios that we cannot produce up here at Barnes. The last day of the trip we flew 4 F-15s and 4 F-22s against 14 "red air" fighters. For our training, we allowed the red air to regenerate after being killed by a blue air fighter. The final results of that mission: Blue Air killed 41 enemy aircraft and lost just one. While pretty phenomenal, perfection is our goal so the debrief focused on how we could have had a 41-0 ratio." 104th Fighter Wing Eagles on Target at United States Air Force's Weapons Systems Evaluation Program

F-35s present here but no talk of how wonderful they did.....

During the entire exercise, there were a total of 3 losses for the F-35. One F-35A and 2 F-35Bs. All losses were during Ground attack which is the highest threat level you can get in. Not only are you being fired at by AA Assets, the Ground Assets with a real hardon for attack planes. The level of defense against any ground attack bird asset at this Red Flag was far more intense than anything they will meet in actual combat. Those 3 losses were the first day. It was turned into a learning curve and the Blue Force adapted.

You got that from where.....you confusing this with Red Flag

 

[Daryl Hunt]

The second piece of the deployment was large force exercises and 4-ship training which is the core fighting force in the Eagle,” said Bladen. “With several other fighter airframes on the Gulf Coast, we were able to put together daily outnumbered scenarios that we cannot produce up here at Barnes. The last day of the trip we flew 4 F-15s and 4 F-22s against 14 "red air" fighters. For our training, we allowed the red air to regenerate after being killed by a blue air fighter. The final results of that mission: Blue Air killed 41 enemy aircraft and lost just one. While pretty phenomenal, perfection is our goal so the debrief focused on how we could have had a 41-0 ratio." 104th Fighter Wing Eagles on Target at United States Air Force's Weapons Systems Evaluation Program

F-35s present here but no talk of how wonderful they did.....

During the entire exercise, there were a total of 3 losses for the F-35. One F-35A and 2 F-35Bs. All losses were during Ground attack which is the highest threat level you can get in. Not only are you being fired at by AA Assets, the Ground Assets with a real hardon for attack planes. The level of defense against any ground attack bird asset at this Red Flag was far more intense than anything they will meet in actual combat. Those 3 losses were the first day. It was turned into a learning curve and the Blue Force adapted.

You got that from where.....you confusing this with Red Flag

Yes, I got that from Red Flag. The reason you don't see any combat by the F-35s in your exercise is that they were left on the ramp. The F-15 has a shortage of qualified pilots. By flying them in the F-15Ds and then the F-15Cs they certified more pilots this way. And before you scream "Cite, Cite" that comes from your very own cite. Your hatred for the F-35 is blinding you from everything else.

 

[Manonthestreet]

The second piece of the deployment was large force exercises and 4-ship training which is the core fighting force in the Eagle,” said Bladen. “With several other fighter airframes on the Gulf Coast, we were able to put together daily outnumbered scenarios that we cannot produce up here at Barnes. The last day of the trip we flew 4 F-15s and 4 F-22s against 14 "red air" fighters. For our training, we allowed the red air to regenerate after being killed by a blue air fighter. The final results of that mission: Blue Air killed 41 enemy aircraft and lost just one. While pretty phenomenal, perfection is our goal so the debrief focused on how we could have had a 41-0 ratio." 104th Fighter Wing Eagles on Target at United States Air Force's Weapons Systems Evaluation Program

F-35s present here but no talk of how wonderful they did.....

During the entire exercise, there were a total of 3 losses for the F-35. One F-35A and 2 F-35Bs. All losses were during Ground attack which is the highest threat level you can get in. Not only are you being fired at by AA Assets, the Ground Assets with a real hardon for attack planes. The level of defense against any ground attack bird asset at this Red Flag was far more intense than anything they will meet in actual combat. Those 3 losses were the first day. It was turned into a learning curve and the Blue Force adapted.

You got that from where.....you confusing this with Red Flag

Yes, I got that from Red Flag. The reason you don't see any combat by the F-35s in your exercise is that they were left on the ramp. The F-15 has a shortage of qualified pilots. By flying them in the F-15Ds and then the F-15Cs they certified more pilots this way. And before you scream "Cite, Cite" that comes from your very own cite. Your hatred for the F-35 is blinding you from everything else.

again with no link to back up your BS......ITs not hatred its informed skepticism of bs claims

 

[Daryl Hunt]

The second piece of the deployment was large force exercises and 4-ship training which is the core fighting force in the Eagle,” said Bladen. “With several other fighter airframes on the Gulf Coast, we were able to put together daily outnumbered scenarios that we cannot produce up here at Barnes. The last day of the trip we flew 4 F-15s and 4 F-22s against 14 "red air" fighters. For our training, we allowed the red air to regenerate after being killed by a blue air fighter. The final results of that mission: Blue Air killed 41 enemy aircraft and lost just one. While pretty phenomenal, perfection is our goal so the debrief focused on how we could have had a 41-0 ratio." 104th Fighter Wing Eagles on Target at United States Air Force's Weapons Systems Evaluation Program

F-35s present here but no talk of how wonderful they did.....

During the entire exercise, there were a total of 3 losses for the F-35. One F-35A and 2 F-35Bs. All losses were during Ground attack which is the highest threat level you can get in. Not only are you being fired at by AA Assets, the Ground Assets with a real hardon for attack planes. The level of defense against any ground attack bird asset at this Red Flag was far more intense than anything they will meet in actual combat. Those 3 losses were the first day. It was turned into a learning curve and the Blue Force adapted.

You got that from where.....you confusing this with Red Flag

Yes, I got that from Red Flag. The reason you don't see any combat by the F-35s in your exercise is that they were left on the ramp. The F-15 has a shortage of qualified pilots. By flying them in the F-15Ds and then the F-15Cs they certified more pilots this way. And before you scream "Cite, Cite" that comes from your very own cite. Your hatred for the F-35 is blinding you from everything else.

again with no link to back up your BS......ITs not hatred its informed skepticism of bs claims

From your own link 104th Fighter Wing Eagles on Target at United States Air Force's Weapons Systems Evaluation Program

104th Fighter Wing Eagles on Target at United States Air Force's Weapons Systems Evaluation Program

The 104th is made up of F-15C/D. Not one single F-35 is in that unit. They were there to qualify more F-15 Pilots and qualify some of the high time F-15 pilots for the F-22. IT's your link. Read it and weep.