Exhaustion and secular faith

[5stringJeff]

Originally posted by Bullypulpit
We weren't attacked. But that's not really been an issue for either party for decades, since both are nothing more than opposite sides of the same debased coin.

We weren't attacked on 9/11?!? You must be smoking the same stuff Psychoblues uses...

 

[Bern80]

quote:
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Originally posted by Avatar4321
And whats wrong with agression when its used for defend ourselves and our interests?
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Originally posted by Bullypulpit
We weren't attacked. But that's not really been an issue for either party for decades, since both are nothing more than opposite sides of the same debased coin.

Whats wrong w/ agression towards a ruthless dictator period?

 

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by gop_jeff
We weren't attacked on 9/11?!? You must be smoking the same stuff Psychoblues uses...

By Iraq...old son.

Al Qaeda deserves everthing thats coming to them. But the general incompetence of the Bush administration is going to delay payment...in full. Iraq, which had no proven links to Al Qaeda was a terrible distraction in terms of manpower, hardware, and money.

Junior screwed up when he didn't pay attention to Poppy Bush's lessons on Iraq, and now we're paying the price. A large portion of our armed forces are bogged down in a war of attrition with Iraqi insurgents. Al Qaeda strikes with impunity, its financial network largely untouched, its leaders alive and at large.

When Dubbyuh invaded Iraq, he lost focus, he screwed the pooch, and the real threat melted away into the mountains between Afghanistan and Pakistan. And now, the Taliban and Al Qaeda are once more operating in southern Afghanistan.

Yeah...We're alot safer now. Dubbyuh shoulda let the generals do the job. Instead, hwe had a chubby for Saddam, and now he's gone and stepped on his dick.

 

[Avatar4321]

So there is no link of Al Queda to Iraq, yet Al Queda fights us there and bombs the Spanish one of our allies in the unilateral action there. Yet still Iraq has nothing to do with the War on terror. Bringing Democracy a hostile region has nothing to do with the war on terror. Making the world free has nothing to do with the war on terror.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by Avatar4321
So there is no link of Al Queda to Iraq, yet Al Queda fights us there and bombs the Spanish one of our allies in the unilateral action there. Yet still Iraq has nothing to do with the War on terror. Bringing Democracy a hostile region has nothing to do with the war on terror. Making the world free has nothing to do with the war on terror.

Had the administration taken the logical course and focused US resources on finishing off the Taliban and destroying Al Qaeda, the bombing in Spain would likely not have happened. But the point is moot now. The Administration has squandered American resources and lives in a fruitless, wreckless bit of foreign adventurism. The "War on Terror" will not end so long as the roots of terrorism are not eliminated...Poverty, ignorance, hopelessness. But the Administration has little interest in that as it requires long term thinking from people incapable of thinking beyond the next sound-bite.

As to democracy...If you truly believe that Dubbyuh and his neo-con cronies are interested in spreading democracy, then you are more naive than you sound.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by Bullypulpit
The "War on Terror" will not end so long as the roots of terrorism are not eliminated...Poverty, ignorance, hopelessness.

A consititution which guarantees civil liberties and open markets will take care of these problems through time. Leaving tyrannical, anti progress, religiously bigotted tyrants intact does little to help anyone except Chirac and his oil for food goons.

Funny how you libs go into stump speech mode when confronted, throwing out glittering generalities until you can fix your attention on the next inept argument du jour.

 

[5stringJeff]

Originally posted by Bullypulpit
Junior screwed up when he didn't pay attention to Poppy Bush's lessons on Iraq, and now we're paying the price. A large portion of our armed forces are bogged down in a war of attrition with Iraqi insurgents. Al Qaeda strikes with impunity, its financial network largely untouched, its leaders alive and at large.

When Dubbyuh invaded Iraq, he lost focus, he screwed the pooch, and the real threat melted away into the mountains between Afghanistan and Pakistan. And now, the Taliban and Al Qaeda are once more operating in southern Afghanistan.

Yeah...We're alot safer now. Dubbyuh shoulda let the generals do the job. Instead, hwe had a chubby for Saddam, and now he's gone and stepped on his dick.

What lessons, exactly, did W fail to learn from Bush 41?

As far as al Qaeda being at large, I think that you are vastly underestimating the job we have done - and continue to do. About 1/3-1/2 of al Qaeda's leadership is either dead or imprisoned, and we have taken away their biggest playground - Afghanistan. Yes, there is still work to be done there, but I think you are unwise to think that there is nobody in Afghanistan right now hunting down terrorists. I absolutely disagree that Iraq had no ties to terrorism. Just because OBL and Saddam were not best buddies does not mean that Iraq was not involved at all. Not to mention (as has already been mentioned) terrorism was not the only justification for the war... but that's been beat to death in the War forum.

 

[Avatar4321]

Originally posted by Bullypulpit
Had the administration taken the logical course and focused US resources on finishing off the Taliban and destroying Al Qaeda, the bombing in Spain would likely not have happened. But the point is moot now. The Administration has squandered American resources and lives in a fruitless, wreckless bit of foreign adventurism. The "War on Terror" will not end so long as the roots of terrorism are not eliminated...Poverty, ignorance, hopelessness. But the Administration has little interest in that as it requires long term thinking from people incapable of thinking beyond the next sound-bite.

As to democracy...If you truly believe that Dubbyuh and his neo-con cronies are interested in spreading democracy, then you are more naive than you sound.

So you think that Al Queda, an organization spread throughout all the nations of the world, is going to be destroyed by pursing the little resistance the Taliban still makes in Aghanistan? its still amazing that anyone could possibly be upset over winning the war in Iraq, freeing the Iraqis, and pulling Al Queda out of the woodwork. But alas no. its only ok to vote for a war on terror if you vote to deny the troops body armor as well.

 

[Avatar4321]

The "War on Terror" will not end so long as the roots of terrorism are not eliminated...Poverty, ignorance, hopelessness.

This is why you dont understand the war on Terrorism. Poverty isnt a root of Terrorism. Osama Bin Laden is one of the richest men in the middle east. Poverty doesnt cause terrorism. Terrorism causes poverty.

Ignorance cant be eliminated without freedom to speak, think, and learn. So the fact that President Bush and the United States military have liberated two nations and built up those nations infrastructures, particularly that schools, and that many women are being educated for the first time in the history of their countries is something you should be happy about. After all if ignorance is one of the root causes of Terrorism, then President Bush has been doing a pretty good job stamping it out. (Now if we can only take back freedom to learn in the United States school systems)

As for hopelessness. Do you really think these terrorists have no hope? Quite the opposite. These homocide bombers are hoping for 72 virgins in the afterlife (Personally I think it would be torture because in order to keep them virgins you would be unable to have relations with any of them) They are hoping for a utopian Islamic ruled society. They arent attacking out of hopelessness. They are attacking because they believe in their cause. Its the same reason you NeoCommunists have been waging a war on America, your hope a utopian socialist society. Yet we have seen what hope in the wrong things can do. Just look at the results of the terrorists and communists have had in the world.

You want to know the root cause of terrorism? People are evil, they seek power for themselves, and could care less how many lives it takes as long as they get their power. Which is why the actions of Senior Shoemaker in Spain is being seen as a victory for the terrorists.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by gop_jeff
What lessons, exactly, did W fail to learn from Bush 41?

As far as al Qaeda being at large, I think that you are vastly underestimating the job we have done - and continue to do. About 1/3-1/2 of al Qaeda's leadership is either dead or imprisoned, and we have taken away their biggest playground - Afghanistan. Yes, there is still work to be done there, but I think you are unwise to think that there is nobody in Afghanistan right now hunting down terrorists. I absolutely disagree that Iraq had no ties to terrorism. Just because OBL and Saddam were not best buddies does not mean that Iraq was not involved at all. Not to mention (as has already been mentioned) terrorism was not the only justification for the war... but that's been beat to death in the War forum.

Cut off the serpents head and more spring forth to take its place.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by Avatar4321
Ignorance cant be eliminated without freedom to speak, think, and learn. So the fact that President Bush and the United States military have liberated two nations and built up those nations infrastructures, particularly that schools, and that many women are being educated for the first time in the history of their countries is something you should be happy about. After all if ignorance is one of the root causes of Terrorism, then President Bush has been doing a pretty good job stamping it out. (Now if we can only take back freedom to learn in the United States school systems)

As for hopelessness. Do you really think these terrorists have no hope? Quite the opposite. These homocide bombers are hoping for 72 virgins in the afterlife (Personally I think it would be torture because in order to keep them virgins you would be unable to have relations with any of them) They are hoping for a utopian Islamic ruled society. They arent attacking out of hopelessness. They are attacking because they believe in their cause. Its the same reason you NeoCommunists have been waging a war on America, your hope a utopian socialist society. Yet we have seen what hope in the wrong things can do. Just look at the results of the terrorists and communists have had in the world.

You want to know the root cause of terrorism? People are evil, they seek power for themselves, and could care less how many lives it takes as long as they get their power. Which is why the actions of Senior Shoemaker in Spain is being seen as a victory for the terrorists.

And which two nations might that be? Afghanistan is ruled by warlords and the Taliban and Al Qaeda are making a comeback in southern Afghanistan. Hamid Karzhai is not the President of Afghanistan...he is the Mayor of Kabul. Iraq is in a state of chaos, the signing of an interim constitution notwithstanding. Insurgents strike with impunity, killing all who get in their way...We don't have the manpower to secure the country and allow democratic institutions to grow.

Had the dupes bin Laden, and others of his ilk, use to do the dirty work any real hope in this world, they would not look to the false promises of hope in a world beyond.

And where did you get this crap about a "utopian socialist society" from. My greatest hope is for a rational society which, from the looks of things, will never come to pass.

"People are evil..." are you counting yourself in that sweeping generalization?...Your hero Dubbyuh?