Exactly Why the Democrats Go Down in Flames in 2014

[thereisnospoon]

Joe,

Try reading it again, more slowly. The Obama Administration is saying half to 2/3 of all employer based insurances goes away immediately when the employer mandate kicks in. This was filed by the Justice Dept as a finding of fact submitted in a legal brief to a Federal Court. I am not saying this....Obama is saying it.

Guy, you keep taking that out of context, but, no, not really.

I mean, I know you really, really, really need to believe this....

I'm just not sure why the thought of poor people getting health insurance horrifies you so much.

Oh, yeah... because "Freedom" or something.

Joe...do you understand this, yes or no? According to the Obama Administration, half to 2/3 of all employer based insurance get cancelled or termed as soon as the employer mandate gets enforced. This point is not debatable. It is fact...per the Obama Administration.

NO NO NO..Joey sez we all are taking Dear Leader's words out of context. What he really means is...

 

[thereisnospoon]

[

Joe...do you understand this, yes or no? According to the Obama Administration, half to 2/3 of all employer based insurance get cancelled or termed as soon as the employer mandate gets enforced.

Guy, I understand you don't have God's first fucking clue as to how group plans work.

I know you DESPERATELY need people to be in a panic about this, because, honestly, panic is all you guys have.

yes and of course Obama really didn't mean it when he said "if you like your insurance policy, you can keep it. Period.
If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. Period.
No one is going to take that away from you.
The one who is desperate here is you. You NEED Obama to be OK. You NEED his policies to do what he said they would.
The reality is he's not and they won't.
Come on dude. If this Obamacare thing was all neat and tidy, do you think there would have been a one year delay for any of the mandates? Do you really think there would be a one year reprieve on non compliant individual policies?
Do you think Jay Carney would be in the White House press room deflecting questions and blaming the insurance companies for cancelling policies?....Policies which the White House admits are non compliant and by law, illegal now?
Do you really think the de Facto leader of the Democrat party( Fmr Pres Clinton) would publicly state that Obama should keep his promises?
You cannot be this much of a fan of Obama. You and your lib minions are eventually going to have to come up for air.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Wow, you guys are delusional.

Most employer programs ALREADY meet the mandate. This is kind of what you don't get, is that unilke individual plans, the pools for employers are large enough to spread the risk around.

Now, yeah, here's the number you keep taking out of context that every year, the old plans are cancelled and they have to come up with new plans that are usually 90% the same as the old one.

I think what you guys are a bit confused about is that there is a plan called "ObamaCare" that is actually paying out money. There really isn't. It's just an expansion and mandates on existing plans.

Joe,

Try reading it again, more slowly. The Obama Administration is saying half to 2/3 of all employer based insurances goes away immediately when the employer mandate kicks in. This was filed by the Justice Dept as a finding of fact submitted in a legal brief to a Federal Court. I am not saying this....Obama is saying it.

thats because 2/3 of those policies ether will have the ability to raise your rates when you get ill, or cancel you because of a preexisting condition that you forgot to report ... or they really don't cover anything at all ... right now those policy don't fit the health care requirements ... so their provider has to bring it up to the standard of health care ... what they will find out is the company will pay less money for more coverage ... many company who have gone ahead and sign up for the new plans have discovered this... the republican party has left that tiny piece of info out... I wonder why...

P.S.
obama isn't saying this the justice dept is ...

"That's because"....
A response from the typical bullshit artist.
How much longer will you travel through your life deliberately keeping yourself uninformed.
Oh..are you the only redneck in your tiny unincorporated community that actually voted democrat?

 

[thereisnospoon]

[

I'm just not sure why people buying their own insurance as opposed to buying it from the government horrifies you so much.

Oh, yeah, because you "like to help the poor" or something. Gee, how does buying a plan more expensive than the one you just got kicked off of because Democrats "like helping the poor" helping the poor, exactly?

Give me an effing break.

Probably because having been FUCKED IN THE ASS by a big insurance company because I had some silly idea that when I paid into an insurance plan and worked for insurance coverage, I wouldn't lose my job after I made a claim.

Here's the thing. The Insurance industry are a real bunch of lying, cheating scumbags, every last one of them. But you clowns on the right INSISTED that instead of going to a cheaper, more efficient and more equitable SINGLE PAYER plan like every other country has gone to, we just HAD to preserve private insurance's slice of the pie.

"Oh, my God, we can't cheat our customers anymore?"

Oh please. Is there anyone in your past who has not victimized you?
I suppose you read the language of your health insurance policy? And if you did not understand it, you consulted your insurance agent who helped you out because that's what they do. Help their clients?
No...You just assumed since you 'paid into' your employer's policy, that was all you required of yourself. You never thought to do a lick of research. You never thought to add your own catastrophic coverage for anything you may have needed that would have gone beyond the limits of your employer's coverage?
No. You just blindly depended on others to do your thinking for you.
Hey Joey...What ever you went through you brought upon yourself. This is what happens to people who 'expect' things. This is what happens to people who accept as little responsibility as possible.
Quite frankly I'm sick of your 'problems'....
If you think single payer is your personal panacea, move to a country that has it.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Guy, I understand you don't have God's first fucking clue as to how group plans work.

I know you DESPERATELY need people to be in a panic about this, because, honestly, panic is all you guys have.

Joe I have been a healthcare provider for over 25 years and did Hospital and Physician contracting and Provider relations for United Healthcare for over 8 of those years. I know exactly what I'm talking about.

I have to dip my toe in that stuff occasionally and holy crap, I don't know how you folks do it. My best friend is a VP with a medical billing software company, and he says it's a massive clusterfuck. The rules keep changing, there ARE no rules yet in some cases, and it's costing his company BIG.

No surprise, of course, but I hate to see him going through this. He's just this side of a basket case right now.

.

I go to a Chiropractor about every 5-6 weeks. The staff members are very friendly and I like to talk to them during my visits.
The office manager and I have conversations about the Obamacare stuff in particular.
She told me the ACA has forced the insurers to revamp their coding to the extent that it was complex before. Now she says its massive. N the past she could do the coding herself. Now they had to hire a medical code person that is specifically trained in the new coding regulations. the Coder is helping the office manager understand the systems and is helping with the loading of the programs onto the office computer system
She says the files of information are massive.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Guy, I understand you don't have God's first fucking clue as to how group plans work.

I know you DESPERATELY need people to be in a panic about this, because, honestly, panic is all you guys have.

Firstly, that's coming from someone who advocates a government who has not the slightest clue as to how to code a healthcare website properly.

Secondly, when 5.5 million people get kicked off of their insurance because you 'like helping the poor get health insurance' there is bound to be panic, dontcha think?

Do you have any fucking clue how the health insurance industry work?

Guy, most websites have rollout problems. Learn to deal.

Second, the health insurance industry doesn't work, unless you are a fat-cat insurance executive. That's the probelm. You should understand this better than most people.

Those 5.5 million had insurance policies that were so shitty they really should have been classified as snake oil.

What's believing your own bullshit feel like?

 

[thereisnospoon]

Guy, I understand you don't have God's first fucking clue as to how group plans work.

I know you DESPERATELY need people to be in a panic about this, because, honestly, panic is all you guys have.

Joe I have been a healthcare provider for over 25 years and did Hospital and Physician contracting and Provider relations for United Healthcare for over 8 of those years. I know exactly what I'm talking about.

Oh, you're part of the verminous system that profits off of human suffering?

Really?

I mean, talking to an employee of United Healthcare about the merits of ObamaCare is like talking to a member of NAMBLA about the merits of Amber Alerts.

Oh please cut the hippie anti establishment bullshit.
Your thinking resembles left over meatloaf in the back of the fridge.

 

[billyerock1991]

I see.

So let's get this straight. I don't want to put words in your mouth so I will phrase these in questions:

• Are you saying that we'll all be getting better plans for less money? me YES
• Are you saying that all of the plans being replaced were lousy? not all but the majority ... Please provide examples, including existing PPO plans that are being replaced, like mine. NO!!! not wasting my time
• Are you saying I'll be saving $2500 per year on my plan? no !!!! don't know your income, don't know what your health care plan is, that's a trick question .... now if your speaking to my plan ... yes!!! its a 100 times better then the one I have now ... saving 300 dollars a month ...so no I won't get a savings of 2500 dollars a year... I will be saving 3600 dollars a year

Okay Mr. Research, lay it on me, looking forward to it.

.

I know this is a trap they always do it ...

No trap.

So YOU'RE getting a better plan for less money. I'm not, even though I was promised you were never promised ever(a) I could keep my plan and (b) I'd be saving $2500 a year. Now, I realize you don't care about that, because you're getting yours. what you don't realize is i did my research ... thats why I don't pay more... thats why I don't care about yours... not because I got mine, because I did the research and you didn't ... you went to some right wing bull shit site and said poor poor pitiful me Many of us who do not qualify for subsidies are paying more for less. no you're not Speaking of research, you may want to look into that if you're going to keep debating the merits of the plan. I guarantee you what I just said will be happening to many people. I wonder if you'll come back and admit you were wrong. there wouldn't be any reason for me to admit I was wrong ... now why would I be sooooooo bold and say this ??? i did my god damn research on what I wanted and what I wanted to pay ... you didn't

I can understand that you don't want to "waste your time" proving this notion that millions of plans are inadequate, I get the same response from the other apologists. Ultimately, they end up saying, "well yeah, you're paying for stuff you don't need, but you're helping someone else pay for it." Right. That's what I said, and you objected.

And again, YOU'RE saving $3600 a year, I'll be paying about that much more. And again, I know you're okay with this -- let someone else pay for it -- but that's not what was promised. if you paid any attention on the health care subsidies or even went to the damn bill and look it up, but again that would require you to do some research which we have established you didn't ... these subsidies are being paid by a tax... a 2.2 % tax that all corporation pay for .... not you ...not your mother... your father, you kids, the corporation pays for it ... so stop your fake whining about you having to pay the bill you're not

Do promises matter to you? yes... the problem you have is you don't listen to what's being said ... not in any speech did obama promise you anything... he didn't promise everybody 2500 dollars saving, he clearly said some people will make up to 2500 dollars or more ... for some god damn reason you heard I promise you 2500 dollars a year ... that's your right wing bull shit talking points... again, stop the poor poor pitiful abused me bull shit

Thanks for answering my questions, and I have to wonder why you suggested I do some research when all I had to do to prove my point was ask you three questions.
this is the most pompous condescending remark of yours yet ... you were just wondering why I suggested you to do some research ... because you didn't prove your point here at all ... your points were right wing talking points ... based on not one bit of factual information just innuendo from the right in it .... then you lied about you having to pay more or others paying more ... if you have to pay more the policy you had didn't fit the standard plans requirements if you did your research like I asked then you wouldn't have come here with these bull shit talking points you would have know why hense this is a trap remark ...the reason you pay more that's because you weren't paying enough ... this is the typical response from people who don't do their research ...they want to play the I was happy with my insurance game and now I'm not cause Obama made me buy and new plan, ploy

.

like I said you need to do your research ... nobody promised you 2500 a year ... not the ACA not, obama that's what happens when you don't do your research ... when obama spoke about you keeping your health care he was assured by the health care providers that you could do this for a while ... the problem he had was they didn't keep their word... if you had done your research you would have known this ... these little right wing talking points that you go on and on with makes you look really stupid ... mostly uninformed ...many people who are getting insurance that cost more went to their insurance provider without going to the exchange first... that's why theirs cost more... if you went to the exchange and your insurance was higher that's because of two reasons 1) you can financially afford it ... 2) the plan you had didn't fit the standard plan... people who rates are hire are making 120,000 dollars or more ... like I've said it's all based on your income ... you can try and sit here and tell me that you're paying more, but if you make less the 25,000 dollars a year and you're paying more then I would call you a liar... or you had a piss poor plan that covered niothing

second I'm not a apologists ... I don't need to apologies for anything ... maybe you need to apologies for being so ignorant for falling for right wing talking points ... why would I have to apologies for you buying a inferior plan ... if you want to know why your plan is bad do your own damn research ... this bull shit about you buying things that you don't need, all insurance policy before and after the ACA forced you to buy things you don't need... all the ACA did was make a standard policy that would cover you or anybody ... who might need that insurance ... so stop with the right wing bull shit talking points... nobody will buy your whining there ...

 

[billyerock1991]

I know this is a trap they always do it ...

No trap.

So YOU'RE getting a better plan for less money. I'm not, even though I was promised (a) I could keep my plan and (b) I'd be saving $2500 a year. Now, I realize you don't care about that, because you're getting yours. Many of us who do not qualify for subsidies are paying more for less. Speaking of research, you may want to look into that if you're going to keep debating the merits of the plan. I guarantee you what I just said will be happening to many people. I wonder if you'll come back and admit you were wrong.

I can understand that you don't want to "waste your time" proving this notion that millions of plans are inadequate, I get the same response from the other apologists. Ultimately, they end up saying, "well yeah, you're paying for stuff you don't need, but you're helping someone else pay for it." Right. That's what I said, and you objected.

And again, YOU'RE saving $3600 a year, I'll be paying about that much more. And again, I know you're okay with this -- let someone else pay for it -- but that's not what was promised.

Do promises matter to you?

Thanks for answering my questions, and I have to wonder why you suggested I do some research when all I had to do to prove my point was ask you three questions.

.

They simply don't care who they screw to use the system..............They manipulate everything to try and justify it, and can look you in the face and tell a bald faced lie.........................

They have no HONOR.

you wouldn't know the meaning of honor ... you never have

 

[billyerock1991]

[
Joey,


You were the one calling plans in the individual market "Sub-Standard." I pointed out that every single health insurance policy in America is fully vetted and approved by the Government, therefore your Obama talking point is utter bullshit.

Keep up, girlfriend. You seem real confused.

And the ones that are FAILING to be meet that vetting are the ones being cancelled now. The ones you guys are bitching about because what's the fun of being in the insurance industry if you can't see the horrified look on their faces when they find out their cancer was a pre-existing condition.
that's the honor eagle was talking about... its his honor to scew people out of their retirement and health care ...
Seriously, guy, the biggest problem with ObamaCare is he tried to work with you guys.
ain't that the truth
I'd have villified you to the point where your dog wouldn't like you.

they don't like them ...

 

[billyerock1991]

[
Joey,


You were the one calling plans in the individual market "Sub-Standard." I pointed out that every single health insurance policy in America is fully vetted and approved by the Government, therefore your Obama talking point is utter bullshit.

Keep up, girlfriend. You seem real confused.

And the ones that are FAILING to be meet that vetting are the ones being cancelled now. The ones you guys are bitching about because what's the fun of being in the insurance industry if you can't see the horrified look on their faces when they find out their cancer was a pre-existing condition.

Seriously, guy, the biggest problem with ObamaCare is he tried to work with you guys.

I'd have villified you to the point where your dog wouldn't like you.

Wrong again Joe. No plan has failed to met the vetting process. None. State Government does the vetting of insurance policies....not the Feds. To call insurance sub-standard when Government is directly involved in vetting and approving every single health insurance policy sold in America is completely fucking wrong. The insurance Companies do not set the rules, Joey. They never have. The Government does.

you're funny.... first you say the fed don't do it, that the states do it... then you say the government does it ... here are the facts the fed made the requirements for the health care requirements the state implements the feds requirements ... that's what he was saying ...I realize you and comprehension aren't friends, buy HEY what can I say ... stick to your you save lives, hero stuff ...

 

[billyerock1991]

[


Wrong again Joe. No plan has failed to met the vetting process. None. State Government does the vetting of insurance policies....not the Feds. To call insurance sub-standard when Government is directly involved in vetting and approving every single health insurance policy sold in America is completely fucking wrong. The insurance Companies do not set the rules, Joey. They never have. The Government does.

Guy, the problem is, you can hide through all the rigamorow you want, but here's the thing.

If I paid good money for insurance or my employer promised me insurance in exchange for work...

And they I get sick and they tell me why they can't pay for it-

SUB-STANDARD!

This really, really isn't fucking difficult.

And here's the thing. Your industry said, "Oh, please, please don't go to a public option or single payer, we promise we'll be good!"

Seriously, it's like one of those movies where they turn their back on the character who has already been established to be a weasel and they are surprised when he turns on them.

Joey,


It sounds like you went through a personal tragedy. If I could give you a bro hug I would.

But hey, since insurance companies are so bad....why did Obama lift up his skirts and let them have their way with him? I mean...Obamacare gives the insurance companies all the power.

the republicans would accept a government program you fool, but we already knew that, you seem to have forgot ...

Joey...you say you hate insurance companies, and yet in Obamacare, your Kenyan Messiah gives the insurance companies everything they want. Joey, I am not real sure how you work out the logic of all of that in your brain...but my guess is there is such powerful delusional rationalizations going on there.

correction he'ls not from kenya and he's not the messiah ... you do realize the picture you have chosen for your icon says a lot about you ...

 

[billyerock1991]

Obama won because Republicans are not credible, didn't he?

Obama won because he is a world class liar and the media covered for him. From the latest polling if the election were held today...now the the American public is finally getting the truth and the media is starting to do its job...Romney wins.

only in your dreams

 

[billyerock1991]

Wow, you guys are delusional.

Most employer programs ALREADY meet the mandate. This is kind of what you don't get, is that unilke individual plans, the pools for employers are large enough to spread the risk around.

Now, yeah, here's the number you keep taking out of context that every year, the old plans are cancelled and they have to come up with new plans that are usually 90% the same as the old one.

I think what you guys are a bit confused about is that there is a plan called "ObamaCare" that is actually paying out money. There really isn't. It's just an expansion and mandates on existing plans.

Most employer policies already meet the requirements? Ok prove it. Second, it doesn't matter. Because once the employer mandate becomes effective, employers will begin dumping their employees insurance altogether because the fine is cheaper than insuring their employees. That is how this thing was set up. The deliberate scuttling of employer provided health insurance was the target of PPACA.
To address your last point, let's say for a moment you are correct. There is no such thing as obamacare.
I have two questions..
1. What is the $900 billion( estimated before passage then recalculated to cost three times that) for?
2.If Obamacare really is just mandates, then why is there a need for a 950 page law, 16,000 new IRS employees and a host of other new regulations and rules?

you keep believing that ...

 

[billyerock1991]

Joe I have been a healthcare provider for over 25 years and did Hospital and Physician contracting and Provider relations for United Healthcare for over 8 of those years. I know exactly what I'm talking about.

I have to dip my toe in that stuff occasionally and holy crap, I don't know how you folks do it. My best friend is a VP with a medical billing software company, and he says it's a massive clusterfuck. The rules keep changing, there ARE no rules yet in some cases, and it's costing his company BIG.

No surprise, of course, but I hate to see him going through this. He's just this side of a basket case right now.

.

I go to a Chiropractor about every 5-6 weeks. The staff members are very friendly and I like to talk to them during my visits.
The office manager and I have conversations about the Obamacare stuff in particular.
She told me the ACA has forced the insurers to revamp their coding to the extent that it was complex before. Now she says its massive. N the past she could do the coding herself. Now they had to hire a medical code person that is specifically trained in the new coding regulations. the Coder is helping the office manager understand the systems and is helping with the loading of the programs onto the office computer system
She says the files of information are massive.

I love these "my friend told me, that a doctor friend of theirs told them that BLAH BLAH BLaHA if I had a dollar for every time I heard that I'd be a million air 10 times over ...

 

[Claudette]

.

gawd

.

I agree. Good gawd.

All anyone has to know is that Obamacare is gonna be anything but affordable and once folks get a gander at their deductables and what they are getting I doubt many will be pleased.

Of course some folks will love it. Those the rest of us will be "subsidizing."

Oh yeah. If I were the Dems I'd be running from Obamacare as far and as fast as I could.

 

[Geaux4it]

Obama and the lib machine are like the turd in the swimming pool. Not one will claim responsibility for it, yet all are assumed guilty.

The Dems and Odummer rammed this through without support from Americans or the other side of the isle.

2014-- Live by the sword, die by the sword

-Geaux

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

[

Joe...do you understand this, yes or no? According to the Obama Administration, half to 2/3 of all employer based insurance get cancelled or termed as soon as the employer mandate gets enforced.

Guy, I understand you don't have God's first fucking clue as to how group plans work.

I know you DESPERATELY need people to be in a panic about this, because, honestly, panic is all you guys have.

Joe, why don't you provide a link that disproves her statement? Obviously people are having trouble simply taking your word on this, just like Obama when he said "If you like your healthcare plan you can keep it, period." It would appear the democrats can not be trusted in providing a health care option the people want.

43% Trust GOP More on Health Care, 39% Democrats - Rasmussen Reports?

 

[JoeB131]

Joey,


It sounds like you went through a personal tragedy. If I could give you a bro hug I would.

But hey, since insurance companies are so bad....why did Obama lift up his skirts and let them have their way with him? I mean...Obamacare gives the insurance companies all the power.

Joey...you say you hate insurance companies, and yet in Obamacare, your Kenyan Messiah gives the insurance companies everything they want. Joey, I am not real sure how you work out the logic of all of that in your brain...but my guess is there is such powerful delusional rationalizations going on there.

If the Insurance companies were so happy with ObamaCare, they wouldn't be squealing like little bitches now.

The Insurance companies didn't get what they want. They can't disallow for pre-existing conditions and they can't limit lifetime payouts. In short, they can't cheat their customers anymore. And eventually, they'll just become government sanction utlities before we have a lick of common sense and cut them out and go to MediCare for all, which is what we should have done.

 

[JoeB131]

[

Joe...do you understand this, yes or no? According to the Obama Administration, half to 2/3 of all employer based insurance get cancelled or termed as soon as the employer mandate gets enforced.

Guy, I understand you don't have God's first fucking clue as to how group plans work.

I know you DESPERATELY need people to be in a panic about this, because, honestly, panic is all you guys have.

Joe, why don't you provide a link that disproves her statement? Obviously people are having trouble simply taking your word on this, just like Obama when he said "If you like your healthcare plan you can keep it, period." It would appear the democrats can not be trusted in providing a health care option the people want.

43% Trust GOP More on Health Care, 39% Democrats - Rasmussen Reports?

Didn't Ratmuffin have Romney winning by 7 points?