EVs significantly less reliable than gas-engine cars, Consumer Reports finds

[Bob Blaylock]

Imagine a hybrid with a hydrogen burning ICE and solid state batteries. You could save the planet and then tow it down to the next KOA.

Of course, it takes a Crick level of ignorance to believe that anyone can save the planet by his choice of transportation; but even so, I want a car that can be driven, not a car to be towed. If I have to tow a car to get it where I want to be, then that rather defeats the point of having a car at all, doesn't it?

 

[dudmuck]

Study finds EVs have nearly 80% more problems than gas vehicles, and plug-in hybrids are even worse​

Electric vehicles are much less reliable on average than those with traditional internal combustion engines, according to new data from Consumer Reports.


The magazine's annual auto reliability brand rankings released Wednesday found consumers reported 79% more problems with EVs than gas-powered cars, trucks and SUVs from the 2000 to 2023 model years studied, and 146% more problems with plug-in hybrids.

However, that does not necessarily mean ICE vehicles are still "old faithful." CR found hybrid vehicles that do not require charging have 26% fewer problems than gas vehicles.

EVs significantly less reliable than gas-engine cars, Consumer Reports finds

A Consumer Reports survey of auto owners found electric vehicles have nearly 80% more problems than gas vehicles on average, and plug-in hybrids are even worse.

www.foxbusiness.com

IN other words, stay the hell away from EVs! reliability and lack of infrastructure to support them make them losers-OG

the article is lumping in all auto makers together. Not a single mention of tesla. This is an artifact of traditional auto manufacturer's playing catch-up with tesla, and then failing with their 1st-generation designs. CEO of mazda calls it out.

 

[DGS49]

What is the nature of the problems? Charging station won't work? Panel gaps? Software issues that are corrected remotely? Loose connection somewhere?

Batteries and electric motors have been around for more than a hundred years. There is only so much that can go wrong on an EV, and there are twice as many things that can go wrong in an ICE vehicle.

EV's aren't for everyone, and I personally wouldn't want one as the only vehicle in my household, but for most people they are cost effective and promise to be trouble-free for much longer than the typical ICE vehicle.

I'm curious about what will be revealed at 2pm Central on the CyberTruck. Mainly price structure.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

There's still no way to isolate hydrogen, that isn't a net energy loss.

I doubt that there ever will be. At least not until we have nuclear fusion practical as a means of generating power.

Hydrogen is the most abundant element on Earth and in the known Universe, but it is chemically very reactive. It combines with other elements in ways that release energy. To separate it from these other elements, to isolate it for use as a fuel, you have to put that energy back into it. and the energy that you have to put into such a process is necessarily going to be less than what you can get back out by using the hydrogen as a fuel in either a fuel cell or an internal combustion engine, or by any other chemical-based means.

Now, if we get the ability to harness nuclear fusion in sustained, controllable manner, as a means of generating power, then that changes everything. Hydrogen would be the “fuel” for that. Here, we would not be using hydrogen as part of a mere chemical reaction, but a nuclear reaction, that can unlock vastly larger amounts of energy. But fusion requires some very extreme conditions of heat and pressure, and so far, we haven't been able to create these conditions in a controlled, way, without putting more power into doing so than we can get back out of the fusion reaction.

So far, our only net-positive fusion reactions that we have been able to create, end up looking something like this:

 

[Concerned American]

Did someone say that it was the batteries that were failing?

Did someone say that they weren't. I gathered that they experienced more problems. Since you didn't have the ambition to even research the source, I'll go with that.

 

[Crick]

Did someone say that they weren't. I gathered that they experienced more problems. Since you didn't have the ambition to even research the source, I'll go with that.

How many paywalls have you gone through looking up mainstream climate science? I don't actually have a lot of interest in EVs. This is the Environment forum, not the car forum or the EV forum. I have recently suggested to USMB that they might start an EV forum but I doubt there is sufficient interest.

 

[Concerned American]

How many paywalls have you gone through looking up mainstream climate science? I don't actually have a lot of interest in EVs. This is the Environment forum, not the car forum or the EV forum. I have recently suggested to USMB that they might start an EV forum but I doubt there is sufficient interest.

No interest in EVs? Then why are you commenting on a thread with a title that begins with EVs? Are you so shallow that you feel that EVs have nothing to do with the environment? SMFH

 

[Ordinary Guy]

the article is lumping in all auto makers together. Not a single mention of tesla. This is an artifact of traditional auto manufacturer's playing catch-up with tesla, and then failing with their 1st-generation designs. CEO of mazda calls it out.

Tesla's suck too, I have a few customers that took the plunge, all have regrets now

 

[Ordinary Guy]

A bit disappointed in your linked article. Fox News. The actual topic was Biden.

it is on AP too that makes you feel better, OMFG

 

[Flash]

An EV ought to be more reliable than a real car.

A typical electric motor has just one moving part, compared to a hundred or more moving parts in a typical internal combustion engine. And because it is electrically-reversible, and has a wider power band, it ought to not need nearly as complex a transmission, if it needs one at all. This should translate to much less mechanical complexity and much less to go wrong with it.

I wonder how it is that EVs are proving to be less reliable than real cars.

Hybrids, on the other hand, I would expect to be considerably less reliable. You've got all the mechanical complexity of an internal combustion engine, on top of that of an electric drivetrain, and an even greater degree of complexity in a system to manage the two different sources of mechanical power. More complexity than the sum of a pure electric vehicle, plus that of a real car. More complexity==more to go wrong.

I think the answer is that ICE technology has been around for over a 100 years and is at the point of being very reliable.

It also depends upon the manufacturer. My younger son bought a Ford Hybrid a few years ago and had nothing but trouble with it. Fortunately Ford fixed it all, including battery replacement, under warranty. Meanwhile most people that have bought a Toyota or Honda Hybrid have good experiences. Hybrid technology is 25 years old now and they are getting it right.

My older son bought an expensive Tesla and it has been reliable but because of other issues will not buy another EV.

When Potatohead's EV subsidy money gets to the Big Three and UAW just wait until you see the junk they will turn out.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

I think the answer is that ICE technology has been around for over a 100 years and is at the point of being very reliable.

It also depends upon the manufacturer. My younger son bought a Ford Hybrid a few years ago and had nothing but trouble with it. Fortunately Ford fixed it all, including battery replacement, under warranty. Meanwhile most people that have bought a Toyota or Honda Hybrid have good experiences. Hybrid technology is 25 years old now and they are getting it right.

My older son bought an expensive Tesla and it has been reliable but because of other issues will not buy another EV.

When Potatohead's EV subsidy money gets to the Big Three and UAW just wait until you see the junk they will turn out.

Ultimately, there is no way around the principle that the more overly complex something is, the more there is to go wrong with it, and the more there is to cost to fix it when it breaks.

I simply do not believe that any kind of hybrid will ever be as reliable as a well-made real car. There's just too much excess complexity.

EVs, as I said, ought to be more reliable, and I am somewhat puzzled by the failure of so many modern EVs to achieve the reliability of a real car. Perhaps they are just finding too many ways to incorporate too much gratuitous complexity into what ought to be a fairly simple machine, that ought to be much less complex than a real car.

 

[Natural Citizen]

My argument is simple.

I do not want one.

Freedom of choice is a wonderful thing.

And that's what's really under assault here.

 

[Flash]

Ultimately, there is no way around the principle that the more overly complex something is, the more there is to go wrong with it, and the more there is to cost to fix it when it breaks.

I simply do not believe that any kind of hybrid will ever be as reliable as a well-made real car. There's just too much excess complexity.

EVs, as I said, ought to be more reliable, and I am somewhat puzzled by the failure of so many modern EVs to achieve the reliability of a real car. Perhaps they are just finding too many ways to incorporate too much gratuitous complexity into what ought to be a fairly simple machine, that ought to be much less complex than a real car.

Your points make sense and as an Engineer I would agree, however, the reality is that Honda and Toyota have learned to make reliable Hybrids. Tesla makes reliable EVs but they cost an arm and a leg.

We are getting ready to get my wife another vehicle. We trade about every three years. We will get her a Honda CRV to run around town in her retirement. We are going to have to make the decision to get the ICE CRV or the Hybrid.

She will put relatively low mileage on it each year because she doesn't commute every day and I am not sure we will ever save the money in gas mileage for the additional cost.

 

[dudmuck]

Tesla's suck too, I have a few customers that took the plunge, all have regrets now

I have a model Y, its just fine.
I see lots of them in various areas around here.

 

[Ordinary Guy]

I have a model Y, its just fine.
I see lots of them in various areas around here.

California where you probably don't drive much, out here in the sticks I could not complete 1 day of sales calls without stopping for a charge, too much disruption for me

 

[dudmuck]

California where you probably don't drive much, out here in the sticks I could not complete 1 day of sales calls without stopping for a charge, too much disruption for me

if daily driving is no more than 270 miles, then its doable on today's BEV car.

but its the economics of price of gas. With california gas prices, its economical, but in other states like texas and such, not really so much.

 

[badger2]

What is the nature of the problems? Charging station won't work? Panel gaps? Software issues that are corrected remotely? Loose connection somewhere?

Batteries and electric motors have been around for more than a hundred years. There is only so much that can go wrong on an EV, and there are twice as many things that can go wrong in an ICE vehicle.

EV's aren't for everyone, and I personally wouldn't want one as the only vehicle in my household, but for most people they are cost effective and promise to be trouble-free for much longer than the typical ICE vehicle.

I'm curious about what will be revealed at 2pm Central on the CyberTruck. Mainly price structure.

Badger2's enclosed winter etrike for the elderly costs $59,000 less than Musk's cybertruck, is lighter ~150 pounds, can get 25 miles electric assist for $0.25 a charge, and may be just as warm as a cybertruck on sunny winter days due to foldable clear vinyl instead of stainless steel.

The etrike has in-transit solar recharging like the Aptera. Musk forgot about in-transit charging.

 

[Ordinary Guy]

if daily driving is no more than 270 miles, then its doable on today's BEV car.

but its the economics of price of gas. With california gas prices, its economical, but in other states like texas and such, not really so much.

Just to put things in perspective. I was in Palm Springs not that long ago. My breakfast here is $7.42, there $22.xx. Prices are way too inflated there.

 

[Captain Caveman]

Study finds EVs have nearly 80% more problems than gas vehicles, and plug-in hybrids are even worse​

Electric vehicles are much less reliable on average than those with traditional internal combustion engines, according to new data from Consumer Reports.


The magazine's annual auto reliability brand rankings released Wednesday found consumers reported 79% more problems with EVs than gas-powered cars, trucks and SUVs from the 2000 to 2023 model years studied, and 146% more problems with plug-in hybrids.

However, that does not necessarily mean ICE vehicles are still "old faithful." CR found hybrid vehicles that do not require charging have 26% fewer problems than gas vehicles.

EVs significantly less reliable than gas-engine cars, Consumer Reports finds

A Consumer Reports survey of auto owners found electric vehicles have nearly 80% more problems than gas vehicles on average, and plug-in hybrids are even worse.

www.foxbusiness.com

IN other words, stay the hell away from EVs! reliability and lack of infrastructure to support them make them losers-OG

In March 2022, consumer group Which? found that a higher percentage of electric car owners reported problems with their vehicle in its first four years, and that electric vehicles also spend longer off the road when they are faulty.

New electric cars may be less reliable than petrol and diesel models, survey suggests

A survey by Which? finds that a higher percentage of electric car owners reported problems with their vehicle in its first four years, and that electric vehicles also spend longer off the road when they are faulty.

news.sky.com

So no improvement over the last year or so.