Eviscerating 'The Roosevelt Alibi'

[rightwinger]

How do you move Soviet zones back when they are occupying them?

The German High Command consisted of Adolph Hitler. Anyone who thought otherwise found themselves dead

Plenty of ways. That's what diplomacy is for.

THe German High Command was a lot of people. Some of them were prepared to kill Hitler even in the real history when the Allies were clear they would never negotiate.


20 July plot - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


So it is reasonable to think that if negotiation was on the table, that more would have been open to such a move.

Hitler was absolute dictator....those who thought they could negotiate around him ended up quite dead

Those who plotted to kill Hitler also ended up dead along with their families and anyone remotely associated with him. The Gestapo was quite thorough in that area

Even in a reality of Unconditional Surrender, there were enough Germans in the High Command to try a coup, in the hope of a Conditional Surrender.

If a negotiated surrender was actually a real option, do you think the plotters would have had an easier time gaining support or a harder time gaining support?

I doubt if it would have mattered

But what "terms" would you have offered? Would you have let them keep their concentration camps?

YOu don't think that it would have mattered that their stated policy goal was actually on the table as opposed to being publicly ruled out by their enemies?

IMO, the fact that there might have been actual encouragement from the US, would have had nothing but positive effects for the plotters.

My understanding is that there was a good deal of luck involved in HItlers survival.

A negotiated surrender in 1944 would have saved many lives and set the Soviet Occupation Zones far to the East, leading to a less scary Cold War.

Please. Obviously the first Condition would be de-nazification. And any group of German generals that were willing to kill Hitler would almost certainly be open to that.

Please don't stoop to Stat level games.

Again ...what do you do about the concentration camps?

You do realize you are "negotiating" with war criminals. You sure you don't want unconditional surrender?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Correll, if you could kill Hitler, then you could probably negotiate such a surrender. The problem was this: nobody killed AH.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Correll, you introduced the Star Wars meme. Your suggestions reflect that meme. We deal with what were the facts. One, Hitler would not allow such negotiations, and, two, the general knew that when the camps were discovered in all of their foulness, they would be shot out of hand, which is what Churchill wanted to do with the senior Nazis and militar

 

[rightwinger]

Correll, you introduced the Star Wars meme. Your suggestions reflect that meme. We deal with what were the facts. One, Hitler would not allow such negotiations, and, two, the general knew that when the camps were discovered in all of their foulness, they would be shot out of hand, which is what Churchill wanted to do with the senior Nazis and militar

There was nothing to negotiate

Once the camps were discovered each of the German negotiators would be hung. Unconditional surrender was the only option

 

[Unkotare]

Not sure. How about moving the Soviet control zones back a couple of hundred miles?

Or maybe negotiating with the German High Command for a conditional surrender, so as to deny the Soviets an empire that reaches all the way into the middle of Germany?

SOMETHING!

How do you move Soviet zones back when they are occupying them?

The German High Command consisted of Adolph Hitler. Anyone who thought otherwise found themselves dead

Plenty of ways. That's what diplomacy is for.

THe German High Command was a lot of people. Some of them were prepared to kill Hitler even in the real history when the Allies were clear they would never negotiate.


20 July plot - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


So it is reasonable to think that if negotiation was on the table, that more would have been open to such a move.

Hitler was absolute dictator....those who thought they could negotiate around him ended up quite dead

Those who plotted to kill Hitler also ended up dead along with their families and anyone remotely associated with him. The Gestapo was quite thorough in that area

Even in a reality of Unconditional Surrender, there were enough Germans in the High Command to try a coup, in the hope of a Conditional Surrender.

If a negotiated surrender was actually a real option, do you think the plotters would have had an easier time gaining support or a harder time gaining support?

I doubt if it would have mattered

But what "terms" would you have offered? Would you have let them keep their concentration camps?

YOU would have let FDR keep his.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Plenty of ways. That's what diplomacy is for.

THe German High Command was a lot of people. Some of them were prepared to kill Hitler even in the real history when the Allies were clear they would never negotiate.


20 July plot - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


So it is reasonable to think that if negotiation was on the table, that more would have been open to such a move.

Hitler was absolute dictator....those who thought they could negotiate around him ended up quite dead

Those who plotted to kill Hitler also ended up dead along with their families and anyone remotely associated with him. The Gestapo was quite thorough in that area

Even in a reality of Unconditional Surrender, there were enough Germans in the High Command to try a coup, in the hope of a Conditional Surrender.

If a negotiated surrender was actually a real option, do you think the plotters would have had an easier time gaining support or a harder time gaining support?

I doubt if it would have mattered

But what "terms" would you have offered? Would you have let them keep their concentration camps?

YOu don't think that it would have mattered that their stated policy goal was actually on the table as opposed to being publicly ruled out by their enemies?

IMO, the fact that there might have been actual encouragement from the US, would have had nothing but positive effects for the plotters.

My understanding is that there was a good deal of luck involved in HItlers survival.

A negotiated surrender in 1944 would have saved many lives and set the Soviet Occupation Zones far to the East, leading to a less scary Cold War.

Please. Obviously the first Condition would be de-nazification. And any group of German generals that were willing to kill Hitler would almost certainly be open to that.

Please don't stoop to Stat level games.

Again ...what do you do about the concentration camps?

You do realize you are "negotiating" with war criminals. You sure you don't want unconditional surrender?

Yes Stalin was a war criminal and we should never have negotiated with him.

He starved 7 million of his own people to death including 3 million children, that's when that senile old Communist loving fuck FDR called him "Uncle"

 

[JakeStarkey]

The dictator actually starved maybe three times that number.

But the fuck was our ally against a worse dictator, Frank.

Your way would have resulted in tens of millions of more deaths.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

The dictator actually starved maybe three times that number.

But the fuck was our ally against a worse dictator, Frank.

Your way would have resulted in tens of millions of more deaths.

We could have nuked the soviet Third Shock Army, Jake. That would have made your hero withdraw east of Poland

 

[Correll]

Plenty of ways. That's what diplomacy is for.

THe German High Command was a lot of people. Some of them were prepared to kill Hitler even in the real history when the Allies were clear they would never negotiate.


20 July plot - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


So it is reasonable to think that if negotiation was on the table, that more would have been open to such a move.

Hitler was absolute dictator....those who thought they could negotiate around him ended up quite dead

Those who plotted to kill Hitler also ended up dead along with their families and anyone remotely associated with him. The Gestapo was quite thorough in that area

Even in a reality of Unconditional Surrender, there were enough Germans in the High Command to try a coup, in the hope of a Conditional Surrender.

If a negotiated surrender was actually a real option, do you think the plotters would have had an easier time gaining support or a harder time gaining support?

I doubt if it would have mattered

But what "terms" would you have offered? Would you have let them keep their concentration camps?

YOu don't think that it would have mattered that their stated policy goal was actually on the table as opposed to being publicly ruled out by their enemies?

IMO, the fact that there might have been actual encouragement from the US, would have had nothing but positive effects for the plotters.

My understanding is that there was a good deal of luck involved in HItlers survival.

A negotiated surrender in 1944 would have saved many lives and set the Soviet Occupation Zones far to the East, leading to a less scary Cold War.

Please. Obviously the first Condition would be de-nazification. And any group of German generals that were willing to kill Hitler would almost certainly be open to that.

Please don't stoop to Stat level games.

Again ...what do you do about the concentration camps?

You do realize you are "negotiating" with war criminals. You sure you don't want unconditional surrender?

Nope. Plenty of German generals and high officials that were not war criminals.

Ludwig Beck was to be the HEad of state is the plot succeeded. Was he a war criminal?

 

[Correll]

Correll, if you could kill Hitler, then you could probably negotiate such a surrender. The problem was this: nobody killed AH.

Plenty of people tried.

If the Allied didn't have such a hard line against ANY conditions or negotiations it would have been a tremendous encouragement to more attempts.

 

[Statistikhengst]

Correll, if you could kill Hitler, then you could probably negotiate such a surrender. The problem was this: nobody killed AH.

Plenty of people tried.

If the Allied didn't have such a hard line against ANY conditions or negotiations it would have been a tremendous encouragement to more attempts.

What a bunch of fucking bullshit.

You know nothing of how Hitler was protected.

You are truly a stupid, insane asshole.

 

[rightwinger]

Hitler was absolute dictator....those who thought they could negotiate around him ended up quite dead

Those who plotted to kill Hitler also ended up dead along with their families and anyone remotely associated with him. The Gestapo was quite thorough in that area

Even in a reality of Unconditional Surrender, there were enough Germans in the High Command to try a coup, in the hope of a Conditional Surrender.

If a negotiated surrender was actually a real option, do you think the plotters would have had an easier time gaining support or a harder time gaining support?

I doubt if it would have mattered

But what "terms" would you have offered? Would you have let them keep their concentration camps?

YOu don't think that it would have mattered that their stated policy goal was actually on the table as opposed to being publicly ruled out by their enemies?

IMO, the fact that there might have been actual encouragement from the US, would have had nothing but positive effects for the plotters.

My understanding is that there was a good deal of luck involved in HItlers survival.

A negotiated surrender in 1944 would have saved many lives and set the Soviet Occupation Zones far to the East, leading to a less scary Cold War.

Please. Obviously the first Condition would be de-nazification. And any group of German generals that were willing to kill Hitler would almost certainly be open to that.

Please don't stoop to Stat level games.

Again ...what do you do about the concentration camps?

You do realize you are "negotiating" with war criminals. You sure you don't want unconditional surrender?

Yes Stalin was a war criminal and we should never have negotiated with him.

He starved 7 million of his own people to death including 3 million children, that's when that senile old Communist loving fuck FDR called him "Uncle"

We didn't conquer Stalin did we?

We were in no position to try him

 

[Correll]

Correll, you introduced the Star Wars meme. Your suggestions reflect that meme. We deal with what were the facts. One, Hitler would not allow such negotiations, and, two, the general knew that when the camps were discovered in all of their foulness, they would be shot out of hand, which is what Churchill wanted to do with the senior Nazis and militar

There was nothing to negotiate

Once the camps were discovered each of the German negotiators would be hung. Unconditional surrender was the only option

Were all German senior Military

Correll, if you could kill Hitler, then you could probably negotiate such a surrender. The problem was this: nobody killed AH.

Plenty of people tried.

If the Allied didn't have such a hard line against ANY conditions or negotiations it would have been a tremendous encouragement to more attempts.

What a bunch of fucking bullshit.

You know nothing of how Hitler was protected.

You are truly a stupid, insane asshole.

My understanding is that at least one of the attempts came very close to succeeding.

And why do you pretend to care about the topic? You're just here to be an asshole troll.

 

[rightwinger]

Hitler was absolute dictator....those who thought they could negotiate around him ended up quite dead

Those who plotted to kill Hitler also ended up dead along with their families and anyone remotely associated with him. The Gestapo was quite thorough in that area

Even in a reality of Unconditional Surrender, there were enough Germans in the High Command to try a coup, in the hope of a Conditional Surrender.

If a negotiated surrender was actually a real option, do you think the plotters would have had an easier time gaining support or a harder time gaining support?

I doubt if it would have mattered

But what "terms" would you have offered? Would you have let them keep their concentration camps?

YOu don't think that it would have mattered that their stated policy goal was actually on the table as opposed to being publicly ruled out by their enemies?

IMO, the fact that there might have been actual encouragement from the US, would have had nothing but positive effects for the plotters.

My understanding is that there was a good deal of luck involved in HItlers survival.

A negotiated surrender in 1944 would have saved many lives and set the Soviet Occupation Zones far to the East, leading to a less scary Cold War.

Please. Obviously the first Condition would be de-nazification. And any group of German generals that were willing to kill Hitler would almost certainly be open to that.

Please don't stoop to Stat level games.

Again ...what do you do about the concentration camps?

You do realize you are "negotiating" with war criminals. You sure you don't want unconditional surrender?

Nope. Plenty of German generals and high officials that were not war criminals.

Ludwig Beck was to be the HEad of state is the plot succeeded. Was he a war criminal?

How about Ziggy Strauss? We could have negotiated with him. Wouldn't have any legitimacy, but we could have

 

[Statistikhengst]

Correll, you introduced the Star Wars meme. Your suggestions reflect that meme. We deal with what were the facts. One, Hitler would not allow such negotiations, and, two, the general knew that when the camps were discovered in all of their foulness, they would be shot out of hand, which is what Churchill wanted to do with the senior Nazis and militar

There was nothing to negotiate

Once the camps were discovered each of the German negotiators would be hung. Unconditional surrender was the only option

Were all German senior Military

Correll, if you could kill Hitler, then you could probably negotiate such a surrender. The problem was this: nobody killed AH.

Plenty of people tried.

If the Allied didn't have such a hard line against ANY conditions or negotiations it would have been a tremendous encouragement to more attempts.

What a bunch of fucking bullshit.

You know nothing of how Hitler was protected.

You are truly a stupid, insane asshole.

My understanding is that at least one of the attempts came very close to succeeding.

And why do you pretend to care about the topic? You're just here to be an asshole troll.

More than one came close, but I am sure you do not know the histories.

You write such convoluted shit, it makes one wonder what drugs you are taking.

 

[Correll]

Even in a reality of Unconditional Surrender, there were enough Germans in the High Command to try a coup, in the hope of a Conditional Surrender.

If a negotiated surrender was actually a real option, do you think the plotters would have had an easier time gaining support or a harder time gaining support?

I doubt if it would have mattered

But what "terms" would you have offered? Would you have let them keep their concentration camps?

YOu don't think that it would have mattered that their stated policy goal was actually on the table as opposed to being publicly ruled out by their enemies?

IMO, the fact that there might have been actual encouragement from the US, would have had nothing but positive effects for the plotters.

My understanding is that there was a good deal of luck involved in HItlers survival.

A negotiated surrender in 1944 would have saved many lives and set the Soviet Occupation Zones far to the East, leading to a less scary Cold War.

Please. Obviously the first Condition would be de-nazification. And any group of German generals that were willing to kill Hitler would almost certainly be open to that.

Please don't stoop to Stat level games.

Again ...what do you do about the concentration camps?

You do realize you are "negotiating" with war criminals. You sure you don't want unconditional surrender?

Nope. Plenty of German generals and high officials that were not war criminals.

Ludwig Beck was to be the HEad of state is the plot succeeded. Was he a war criminal?

How about Ziggy Strauss? We could have negotiated with him. Wouldn't have any legitimacy, but we could have

Legitimacy?

If some German manages to kill Hitler and offers to denazify German and end the war early saving vast numbers of lives and preventing Stalin from parking the Red Army in the middle of Europe,

Sounds legitimate to me.

 

[Correll]

Correll, you introduced the Star Wars meme. Your suggestions reflect that meme. We deal with what were the facts. One, Hitler would not allow such negotiations, and, two, the general knew that when the camps were discovered in all of their foulness, they would be shot out of hand, which is what Churchill wanted to do with the senior Nazis and militar

There was nothing to negotiate

Once the camps were discovered each of the German negotiators would be hung. Unconditional surrender was the only option

Were all German senior Military

Correll, if you could kill Hitler, then you could probably negotiate such a surrender. The problem was this: nobody killed AH.

Plenty of people tried.

If the Allied didn't have such a hard line against ANY conditions or negotiations it would have been a tremendous encouragement to more attempts.

What a bunch of fucking bullshit.

You know nothing of how Hitler was protected.

You are truly a stupid, insane asshole.

My understanding is that at least one of the attempts came very close to succeeding.

And why do you pretend to care about the topic? You're just here to be an asshole troll.

More than one came close, but I am sure you do not know the histories.

You write such convoluted shit, it makes one wonder what drugs you are taking.

So if more than one came close, why do you mention how "protected" Hitler was, as though it made hoping for an assassination "insane"?

Oh, because you an asshole troll, that's why.

 

[rightwinger]

I doubt if it would have mattered

But what "terms" would you have offered? Would you have let them keep their concentration camps?

YOu don't think that it would have mattered that their stated policy goal was actually on the table as opposed to being publicly ruled out by their enemies?

IMO, the fact that there might have been actual encouragement from the US, would have had nothing but positive effects for the plotters.

My understanding is that there was a good deal of luck involved in HItlers survival.

A negotiated surrender in 1944 would have saved many lives and set the Soviet Occupation Zones far to the East, leading to a less scary Cold War.

Please. Obviously the first Condition would be de-nazification. And any group of German generals that were willing to kill Hitler would almost certainly be open to that.

Please don't stoop to Stat level games.

Again ...what do you do about the concentration camps?

You do realize you are "negotiating" with war criminals. You sure you don't want unconditional surrender?

Nope. Plenty of German generals and high officials that were not war criminals.

Ludwig Beck was to be the HEad of state is the plot succeeded. Was he a war criminal?

How about Ziggy Strauss? We could have negotiated with him. Wouldn't have any legitimacy, but we could have

Legitimacy?

If some German manages to kill Hitler and offers to denazify German and end the war early saving vast numbers of lives and preventing Stalin from parking the Red Army in the middle of Europe,

Sounds legitimate to me.

You think we kill Hitler and then they surrender?

Germans had a lot of dirty laundry. Surrender meant war crimes trials and executions. They were in no position to surrender

 

[Statistikhengst]

YOu don't think that it would have mattered that their stated policy goal was actually on the table as opposed to being publicly ruled out by their enemies?

IMO, the fact that there might have been actual encouragement from the US, would have had nothing but positive effects for the plotters.

My understanding is that there was a good deal of luck involved in HItlers survival.

A negotiated surrender in 1944 would have saved many lives and set the Soviet Occupation Zones far to the East, leading to a less scary Cold War.

Please. Obviously the first Condition would be de-nazification. And any group of German generals that were willing to kill Hitler would almost certainly be open to that.

Please don't stoop to Stat level games.

Again ...what do you do about the concentration camps?

You do realize you are "negotiating" with war criminals. You sure you don't want unconditional surrender?

Nope. Plenty of German generals and high officials that were not war criminals.

Ludwig Beck was to be the HEad of state is the plot succeeded. Was he a war criminal?

How about Ziggy Strauss? We could have negotiated with him. Wouldn't have any legitimacy, but we could have

Legitimacy?

If some German manages to kill Hitler and offers to denazify German and end the war early saving vast numbers of lives and preventing Stalin from parking the Red Army in the middle of Europe,

Sounds legitimate to me.

You think we kill Hitler and then they surrender?

Germans had a lot of dirty laundry. Surrender meant war crimes trials and executions. They were in no position to surrender

Apparently, crazy assed RWNJs like Correll think that we didn't do enough to try to make sure that Hitler would have been assassinated.

 

[Correll]

YOu don't think that it would have mattered that their stated policy goal was actually on the table as opposed to being publicly ruled out by their enemies?

IMO, the fact that there might have been actual encouragement from the US, would have had nothing but positive effects for the plotters.

My understanding is that there was a good deal of luck involved in HItlers survival.

A negotiated surrender in 1944 would have saved many lives and set the Soviet Occupation Zones far to the East, leading to a less scary Cold War.

Please. Obviously the first Condition would be de-nazification. And any group of German generals that were willing to kill Hitler would almost certainly be open to that.

Please don't stoop to Stat level games.

Again ...what do you do about the concentration camps?

You do realize you are "negotiating" with war criminals. You sure you don't want unconditional surrender?

Nope. Plenty of German generals and high officials that were not war criminals.

Ludwig Beck was to be the HEad of state is the plot succeeded. Was he a war criminal?

How about Ziggy Strauss? We could have negotiated with him. Wouldn't have any legitimacy, but we could have

Legitimacy?

If some German manages to kill Hitler and offers to denazify German and end the war early saving vast numbers of lives and preventing Stalin from parking the Red Army in the middle of Europe,

Sounds legitimate to me.

You think we kill Hitler and then they surrender?

Germans had a lot of dirty laundry. Surrender meant war crimes trials and executions. They were in no position to surrender[

NO. They kill HItler and then surrender.

You do realize that few of the Wehrmacht High Command was tried for War Crimes, right?