'Evil little thing' or defender of the constitution?

[StevenC]

Dear Idiot partisan hack,

That is the words of Jamed Madison.

He is considered the Father of the constitution.

Do you know why he is called that?

Because he wrote most if it

Then show me, in the Constitution and not some seperate document, were it says seperation of church and state.
It is my claim, proven by fact, that the seperation clause was added by the courts.
It is also my claim and others, and this is the chief debate, that the courts have gotten it wrong.

So....you are asserting that if the Constitution doesn't have the EXACT words "separation of church and state" that therefore there is NOT separation of church and state?

Yes I am. Nor am I the only one. It was created by the courts based on letters, not on anything in the actual constitution.

 

[StevenC]

Its a government building and should promote NO religion

It isn't "promoting" religion. It promotes a message that should apply to all people. Or don't you think they should try and be good people, have good sportsmanship and try to do good in school?

 

[StevenC]

why do you people do this?


why do you refuse the words right from the guys mouth who wrote our constitution?

Why do you deny the words IN the Constitution?

 

[freedombecki]

Well?

Is Jessica Ahlquist an... "'Evil little thing' or defender of the constitution?" You decide but as for me I vote on the side of the seperation of church and state. You constitutionalists should also.

NYT: Atheist teen forces school to remove prayer - US news - The New York Times - msnbc.com

CRANSTON, R.I. She is 16, the daughter of a firefighter and a nurse, a self-proclaimed nerd who loves Harry Potter and Facebook. But Jessica Ahlquist is also an outspoken atheist who has incensed this heavily Roman Catholic city with a successful lawsuit to get a prayer removed from the wall of her high school auditorium, where it has hung for 49 years.

A federal judge ruled this month that the prayer’s presence at Cranston High School West was unconstitutional, concluding that it violated the principle of government neutrality in religion.

In the weeks since, residents have crowded school board meetings to demand an appeal, Jessica has received online threats and the police have escorted her at school, and Cranston, a dense city of 80,000 just south of Providence, has throbbed with raw emotion.

State Representative Peter G. Palumbo, a Democrat from Cranston, called Jessica “an evil little thing” on a popular talk radio show. Three separate florists refused to deliver her roses sent from a national atheist group. The group, the Freedom From Religion Foundation, has filed a complaint with the Rhode Island Commission for Human Rights...

Sure, no harassment of non-Christians in this country as long as they "know their place".

How exactly is a plaque with words on it 'harassment'?

It isn't, and Americans know it isn't.

 

[Listening]

the right has completely lost their minds.


Why are you preteding its not in the constitution?


what does it gain you to lie ?

Because it isn't.

You always have been, continue to be, and will likely carry on as the biggest liar on this board.

Some states supported specific churches through the 1830's with no serious challenge from anyone.

Do you even know why Jefferson wrote his infamous letter ?

 

[Listening]

its in the constitution, read it sometime

I have.

It isn't....

And besides you are ignoring the clear distinction that has been pointed out to you on numerous occasions.

Did your liberal teachers tell you that lying was justified...or do you do it because you are just to lazy to admit you are wrong ?

 

[freedombecki]

Letter to the Danbury Baptists - January 1, 1802 - Wikisource

the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between church and State.

Those are the words of James Madison who is concidered the Father of the constitution.

The judge established a law from the bench.

He should be removed from the court and debarred for publicly ridiculing a school tradition of 237+ years. Before public schools, all schools were private with classes conducted in church buildings.

 

[peach174]

I think that maybe the U.S. Supreme Court on Feb 29,1892 says and explains it the best.
Holy Trinity Church vs U.S.

The free, equal, and undisturbed enjoyment of religious opinion, whatever it may be, and free and decent discussions on any religious [143 U.S. 457, 471] subject, is granted and secured; but to revile, with malicious and blasphemous contempt, the religion professed by almost the whole community is an abuse of that right.

If we pass beyond these matters to a view of American life, as expressed by its laws, its business, its customs, and its society, we find everywhere a clear recognition of the same truth. Among other matters note the following: The form of oath universally prevailing, concluding with an appeal to the Almighty; the custom of opening sessions of all deliberative bodies and most conventions with prayer; the prefatory words of all wills, "In the name of God, amen;" the laws respecting the observance of the Sabbath, with the general cessation of all secular business, and the closing of courts, legislatures, and other similar public assemblies on that day; the churches and church organizations which abound in every city, town, and hamlet; the multitude of charitable organizations existing everywhere under Christian auspices; the gigantic missionary associations, with general support, and aiming to establish Christian missions in every quarter of the globe. These and many other matters which might be noticed, add a volume of unofficial declarations to the mass of organic utterances that this is a Christian nation. In the face of all these, shall it be believed that a congress of the United States intended to make it a misdemeanor for a church of this country to contract for the services of a Christian minister residing in another nation?

Here is a link to the whole document.
Holy Trinity Church v. U.S. (1892)

One person who wants a non denominational prayer removed from the school wall over the vast majority is tyranny.
She is prohibiting the free exercise of religion.
It is a clear violation of the 1st Amendment.

We have non denominational Chaplains in our government and should be able to have nondenominational prayer in the school.

 

[peach174]

click on it for a larger view

 

[bodecea]

Why do you not like the founders ideas?

Oh but we do.

And you see, here's the dirty little secret nobody told you about.

The Constitution applies to the federal government. It is all to clear that religion at the state level was considered to be none of the federal government's business.

Don't believe me....then why did some states tax people for the express purpose of supporting a partricular religion ? Yes, that went on.

Oh how that hurts the liberals who don't realize that is exactly what Jefferson was making reference too. The federal government.

That is why public prayer was O.K. until the SCOTUS decided to play god and came up with selective incorporation....something for which they should be hung, shot and burned.

So, you see....we do like the founders ideas. The federal government and the U.S. constition was not supposed to have any sway over how states conducted their affairs and if that mean they wanted to publish the ten commmandments on every sign welcoming people to their state...that was their right and John Marshal could not do a screaching thing about it.

Until the 14th amendment, that is.

 

[bodecea]

To me this goes beyond the intent of the founding fathers. Articles of religion like the ten commandments on courthouses and this prayer (although being 8 feet high is a little overboard) do not infringe on that separation. If the people of this country want to bar all religious symbols from government property start with the currency!!

Is this separation of state and religion? If it is then what is a prayer hanging on a wall. She says it makes her feel like she does not belong. Perhaps the money should make her feel that she does not belong in America?

No problem taking that phrase off of money. It will spend just as well without it.

No it won't A bill without "In God We Trust" is counterfeit crap!

Not if the government (U.S. Treasury) is the entity that takes it out. But, not to worry, if that happens, I'll take your "counterfeit crap" off your hands.

 

[bodecea]

Then show me, in the Constitution and not some seperate document, were it says seperation of church and state.
It is my claim, proven by fact, that the seperation clause was added by the courts.
It is also my claim and others, and this is the chief debate, that the courts have gotten it wrong.

So....you are asserting that if the Constitution doesn't have the EXACT words "separation of church and state" that therefore there is NOT separation of church and state?

Yes I am. Nor am I the only one. It was created by the courts based on letters, not on anything in the actual constitution.

Ah, I see....so the government can take our GUNS away because the ACTUAL WORD "gun(s)" is not found in the 2nd amendment or elsewhere.


Odd how most people don't see it your way.

 

[bodecea]

Its a government building and should promote NO religion

It isn't "promoting" religion. It promotes a message that should apply to all people. Or don't you think they should try and be good people, have good sportsmanship and try to do good in school?

Why "SHOULD" it?

 

[bodecea]

Sure, no harassment of non-Christians in this country as long as they "know their place".

How exactly is a plaque with words on it 'harassment'?

It isn't, and Americans know it isn't.

Still waiting.........

 

[bodecea]

View attachment 17234

click on it for a larger view

Take off the "Heavenly Father" and the "Amen".......

 

[hortysir]

View attachment 17234

click on it for a larger view

Chop off the top and the bottom and, really, what's the problem?

 

[AmericanFirst]

bless her constitution loving heart

Separation of Church and State is not in the constitution. It is a myth adopted in 1947. She is a confused little thing. But of course she has been brainwashed by gov't. schools. Federal judge just confirmed that public schools were gov't. buildings. Libtards are idiots.

 

[bodecea]

bless her constitution loving heart

Separation of Church and State is not in the constitution. It is a myth adopted in 1947. She is a confused little thing. But of course she has brainwashed by gov't. schools. Federal judge just confirmed that public schools were gov't. buildings. Libtards are idiots.

And....I'm still waiting...............

 

[Charles_Main]

Well?

Is Jessica Ahlquist an... "'Evil little thing' or defender of the constitution?" You decide but as for me I vote on the side of the seperation of church and state. You constitutionalists should also.







NYT: Atheist teen forces school to remove prayer - US news - The New York Times - msnbc.com

CRANSTON, R.I. She is 16, the daughter of a firefighter and a nurse, a self-proclaimed nerd who loves Harry Potter and Facebook. But Jessica Ahlquist is also an outspoken atheist who has incensed this heavily Roman Catholic city with a successful lawsuit to get a prayer removed from the wall of her high school auditorium, where it has hung for 49 years.

A federal judge ruled this month that the prayer’s presence at Cranston High School West was unconstitutional, concluding that it violated the principle of government neutrality in religion.

In the weeks since, residents have crowded school board meetings to demand an appeal, Jessica has received online threats and the police have escorted her at school, and Cranston, a dense city of 80,000 just south of Providence, has throbbed with raw emotion.

State Representative Peter G. Palumbo, a Democrat from Cranston, called Jessica “an evil little thing” on a popular talk radio show. Three separate florists refused to deliver her roses sent from a national atheist group. The group, the Freedom From Religion Foundation, has filed a complaint with the Rhode Island Commission for Human Rights...

She is not Evil, She is doing what she thinks is right, and she has every right to do so.

I simple don't Agree with her. I think Liberals Push the Separation of Church and State issue well beyond it's Intentions. A Generic Non Denominational Inspirational Prayer on a School wall IMO does not Violate the Separation of Church and state, Nor does it Hinder anyone's Freedom of Religion.

On the Contrary I think Forcing the Removal of a Prayer that has been there for a long time, based on the Objections of 1 person, or a handful of people. Is actually Taking Away from Everyone's Freedom of Religion.

But I would never begrudge her, her right to be wrong, and take action on her Beliefs.

 

[Truthmatters]

the founders disagreed with you