"Every real estate developer everywhere does this" says Kevin O'Leary reacts to Trump civil fraud case

[justoffal]

What Trump did was not illegal. It is the legal and proper way that type of business operates. There was nothing illegal about it.

The point is the bank signed off on it and that would have been after they sent a man out to see the property and measure it.
Loans of that size never go forward without first being investigated. The bank decided to loan him a certain amount of money and he paid it back.
The issues with state property taxes. You can't claim something is worth $10 million for the purposes of obstaining a loan And then turn around and tell the state it's only worth 5 million when it's time to pay property taxes. That might be the one detail he can't fix. Although this particular case has the potential of stepping on the toes of an international giant who might just step back. Clue: it isn't Trump.

 

[healthmyths]

The point is the bank signed off on it and that would have been after they sent a man out to see the property and measure it.
Loans of that size never go forward without first being investigated. The bank decided to loan him a certain amount of money and he paid it back.
The issues with state property taxes. You can't claim something is worth $10 million for the purposes of obstaining a loan And then turn around and tell the state it's only worth 5 million when it's time to pay property taxes. That might be the one detail he can't fix. Although this particular case has the potential of stepping on the toes of an international giant who might just step back. Clue: it isn't Trump.

Wait a minute. Did read what I wrote about how property taxes are calculated?
Tax Appraisals are done by the tax personnel.
Tax assessors will typically value the property every one to five years and charge the owner of record the appropriate rate according to the standards set by the taxing authority. Assessors calculate that value using the mill levy, also called the millage tax, and the assessed property value.

How Property Taxes Are Calculated

Property taxes are calculated by multiplying your assessed home value and local tax rate. Learn more about what affects your property tax bill and calculation methods.

www.investopedia.com

NOW do you understand the difference? Property taxes are calculated by the county Tax appraisers!
This is an example of property in Dallas,Tx.

County Appraisal value:

Market Value

 

[justoffal]

Wait a minute. Did read what I wrote about how property taxes are calculated?
Tax Appraisals are done by the tax personnel.
Tax assessors will typically value the property every one to five years and charge the owner of record the appropriate rate according to the standards set by the taxing authority. Assessors calculate that value using the mill levy, also called the millage tax, and the assessed property value.

How Property Taxes Are Calculated

Property taxes are calculated by multiplying your assessed home value and local tax rate. Learn more about what affects your property tax bill and calculation methods.

www.investopedia.com

NOW do you understand the difference? Property taxes are calculated by the county Tax appraisers!
This is an example of property in Dallas,Tx.

County Appraisal value:
View attachment 888278

Market Value
View attachment 888276

Yes....of course....so who is doing the bitching? From my understanding the entire underpinning of this case has to do with property tax due the state of New York that they feel they were cheated out of by Trump. What should I say that Letita James has designated the people of New York as the victim herein. I assume that james is complaining that Trump used one valuation to get a loan and another valuation to pay taxes.

Unless of course he had nothing to do with the rate that the county appraisal decided to charge him. I take it that's what you're saying. If that's the case then the court case is even weaker than I thought it was.

 

[tahuyaman]

The point is the bank signed off on it and that would have been after they sent a man out to see the property and measure it.
Loans of that size never go forward without first being investigated. The bank decided to loan him a certain amount of money and he paid it back.
The issues with state property taxes. You can't claim something is worth $10 million for the purposes of obstaining a loan And then turn around and tell the state it's only worth 5 million when it's time to pay property taxes. That might be the one detail he can't fix. Although this particular case has the potential of stepping on the toes of an international giant who might just step back. Clue: it isn't Trump.

There was nothing illegal, improper or underhanded about how Trump secured his business loans. He followed the legal standard practices in that area.

If they want to find something illegal, they need to look elsewhere.

 

[tahuyaman]

… I assume that james is complaining that Trump used one valuation to get a loan and another valuation to pay taxes…

My home has an assessed value and my property taxes are based on that value.

The market value of my home is substantially greater than the assessed value.

 

[justoffal]

My home has an assessed value and my property taxes are based on that value.

The market value of my home is substantially greater than the assessed value.

Yes

 

[justoffal]

There was nothing illegal, improper or underhanded about how Trump secured his business loans. He followed the legal standard practices in that area.

If they want to find something illegal, they need to look elsewhere.

Yeah... That's what I've been saying right along. This is why I think the case will not stick and will not survive appeal.

 

[pknopp]

What Trump did was not illegal. It is the legal and proper way that type of business operates. There was nothing illegal about it.

Again, tell it to the judge.

 

[pknopp]

Exactly what did Trump do in NYC that was illegal?
Now since very ignorant people like you have NO IDEA you just heard it...
FACTS:
NEW YORK (AP) — Donald Trump obtained hundreds of millions of dollars in loans using financial statements that a court has since deemed fraudulent, a retired bank official testified Wednesday at the former president’s New York civil fraud trial.
Trump’s “statements of financial condition” were key to his approval for a $125 million loan in 2011 for his golf resort in Doral, Florida, and a $107 million loan in 2012 for his Chicago hotel and condo skyscraper, former Deutsche Bank risk management officer Nicholas Haigh testified.

Banker says Trump’s financial statements were key to loan approvals, but there were 'sanity checks'

Donald Trump obtained millions in loans using financial statements that a court has since deemed fraudulent, a retired bank official testified.

apnews.com

FACTs:
Deutsche Bank’s rules required Trump to act as a guarantor for the Doral and Chicago loans in addition to putting up the Miami-area resort and Wabash Ave skyscraper as collateral, meaning he would’ve been obligated to repay the loans if his properties faltered.
Deutsche Bank’s private wealth management unit, which handled the loans, wouldn’t have approved them without a “strong financial guarantee” from Trump, Haigh said.

Trump's fraudulent financial statements were key to getting loans, former bank official says

The former president obtained hundreds of millions of dollars in loans using financial statements that a court has since deemed fraudulent, a retired bank official testified at the New York civil fraud trial.

www.pbs.org

So where was the fraud? OH... right Deutsche bank required Trump put up this property
the Miami-area resort and Wabash Ave skyscraper as collateral.
Let's look at the Miami-area property known as Mar-a-Largo. Valued by a New York judge ruled last week that former President Donald Trump inflated the value of his Mar-a-Lago estate by an eye-popping 2,300%.
From 2011-2021, the Palm Beach County Assessor appraised the market value of Mar-a-Lago at between $18 million and $27.6 million,” Engoron wrote in his ruling.
The judge noted Trump valued Mar-a-Lago at between $426.5 million and $612 million, “an overvaluation of at least 2,300%, compared to the assessor’s appraisal.”

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/03/business/trump-fraud-judge-mar-a-lago/index.html

To those of you that understand this distinction that Engoron is totally as a well known Democrat very very ignorant of and he is a JUDGE!

But it’s widely known that the tax assessor valuation is typically, though not always, less than what a property would command on the open market.
In other words, it’s not an apples-to-apples comparison.

These experts point this out folks... NOT me I'm not an expert... I just find the truth!

“Appraisal values and market values are just not the same thing. It’s a well-known fact,” said Eli Beracha, chair of the school of real estate at Florida International University.
“That’s especially true for properties that are unique. And it’s very easy to argue this is a unique property."

And the above expert says this about YOU, pknopp and other ignorant people including that idiot Judge that voted for Biden!!!
Dina Goldentayer, executive director of sales at Douglas Elliman in South Florida, said in her experience in the ultra-luxury marketplace the tax assessor’s valuation isn’t considered when trying to value a property.
He wouldn’t make a very good realtor,” Goldentayer said of the judge.
“It’s so widely known that it’s not an accurate determination of market value.”

Now here is the proof via an example:

" A nearby vacant lot (2.3 acres) is for sale on Zillow for $200 million," John LeFevre, a former investment banker who created the Goldman Sachs Elevator social media account, wrote alongside a screengrab of the listing. "Mar-a-Lago sits on 17 acres, with waterfront on both sides."

He added: "The primary point is this: The lending bank is required to get a valuation from a third party to cover its LTV calculation. No one had an issue with any of this. Everyone made money...Until an activist [District Attorney] came along decades later," a reference to Letitia James, who brought the case.

How much is Mar-a-Lago worth? Valuation of Trump property raises questions

The disparity between the former president's valuation of his Florida estate and that of a local assessor has prompted speculation as to its true worth.

www.newsweek.com

According to Zillow:1980 S Ocean Blvd, Palm Beach, FL 33480 | MLS #22-347 | Zillow this property..1980 S Ocean Blvd, Palm Beach, FL 33480 a nearby lot 2.28 acres sold for $150,000,000 or $65,217,391.30 /ACRE.

hmmm.. 17 acres would be $1,108,695,652.17 or $1.108 Billion dollars.. !
Nearly 66% more than what Trump valued Mar-a-Lago as high as $739 million —

Is Mar-a-Lago worth $1 billion? Trump's winter home valuations are at the core of his fraud trial

How much is Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Lago worth? That’s now a point of contention after a New York judge ruled that the former president exaggerated the Florida property’s value when he said it is worth at least $420 million.

apnews.com

View attachment 888266

I've already answered your question 4-5 times.

 

[healthmyths]

Yes....of course....so who is doing the bitching? From my understanding the entire underpinning of this case has to do with property tax due the state of New York that they feel they were cheated out of by Trump. What should I say that Letita James has designated the people of New York as the victim herein. I assume that james is complaining that Trump used one valuation to get a loan and another valuation to pay taxes.

Unless of course he had nothing to do with the rate that the county appraisal decided to charge him. I take it that's what you're saying. If that's the case then the court case is even weaker than I thought it was.

The issue is a personal vendetta against Trump.
Otherwise James would be making this issue universal.... actually NY Citizens could say she's ignoring literally billions of additional tax revenue for NYC, state of NY and the rest of the country.
As has been pointed out many times there are 3 values used regarding property values.

• Market Value: What a buyer will pay
• Appraised value: A home appraisal is an objective, third-party assessment of a home’s market value.
• Assessed value is a figure local governments use to determine property tax.

https://www.americanfinancing.net/mortgage-basics/assessed-appraised-market-value-difference#

Typically, appraised values are higher than assessed values.

Assessed Value Vs. Appraised Value | Bankrate

These two terms sound similar, but there are key differences that can be crucial in determining how much a home is worth.

www.bankrate.com

So when truly uninformed people like James is they don't seem to comprehend the gross EFFECT their stupidity has!
Use your home's market value and multiply it by the assessment rate (a fixed percentage—usually 80% to 90%—set by your local or state government to determine your property tax

Assessed Value Vs. Market Value: What’s The Difference?

Your home’s value is a huge part of your overall financial picture. It can represent a good chunk of your net worth, and it’s how annual property taxes are calculated. However, if you try to look up the value of your home, you might find varying numbers. That’s because your home is valued in diff

www.forbes.com

For NYC The total citywide market value of fully and partially taxable property was still approximately $1.3 trillion,

https://www.nyc.gov/assets/finance/downloads/pdf/reports/reports-property-tax/nyc_property_fy22.pdf

James should go get the nearly $130 billion in additional taxes as she is trying to do to Trump by making the assessed value the same as the market value.
But guess what? How many property owners will be moving rather than pay the additional $130 billion?
Or the state of NY? New York has the most valuable real estate in the U.S. at $2.8 trillion

Real Estate Investing in New York as a Foreigner: A Complete Guide

Have you ever considered investing in New York as a foreigner but needed to figure out how? New York is widely considered a safe haven for foreign real estate investors, with thousands of investors from China, Oceania, and Europe owning property there. And there are multiple reasons for its...

nonresidentinvestor.com

Or the state of NY should go after the additional $280 billion just be using market value for taxes vs assessed value!
But guess what? How many NY property owners will be moving rather than pay the additional $280 billion?

 

[justoffal]

The issue is a personal vendetta against Trump.
Otherwise James would be making this issue universal.... actually NY Citizens could say she's ignoring literally billions of additional tax revenue for NYC, state of NY and the rest of the country.
As has been pointed out many times there are 3 values used regarding property values.

• Market Value: What a buyer will pay
• Appraised value: A home appraisal is an objective, third-party assessment of a home’s market value.
• Assessed value is a figure local governments use to determine property tax.

https://www.americanfinancing.net/mortgage-basics/assessed-appraised-market-value-difference#

Typically, appraised values are higher than assessed values.

Assessed Value Vs. Appraised Value | Bankrate

These two terms sound similar, but there are key differences that can be crucial in determining how much a home is worth.

www.bankrate.com

So when truly uninformed people like James is they don't seem to comprehend the gross EFFECT their stupidity has!
Use your home's market value and multiply it by the assessment rate (a fixed percentage—usually 80% to 90%—set by your local or state government to determine your property tax

Assessed Value Vs. Market Value: What’s The Difference?

Your home’s value is a huge part of your overall financial picture. It can represent a good chunk of your net worth, and it’s how annual property taxes are calculated. However, if you try to look up the value of your home, you might find varying numbers. That’s because your home is valued in diff

www.forbes.com

For NYC The total citywide market value of fully and partially taxable property was still approximately $1.3 trillion,

https://www.nyc.gov/assets/finance/downloads/pdf/reports/reports-property-tax/nyc_property_fy22.pdf

James should go get the nearly $130 billion in additional taxes as she is trying to do to Trump by making the assessed value the same as the market value.
But guess what? How many property owners will be moving rather than pay the additional $130 billion?
Or the state of NY? New York has the most valuable real estate in the U.S. at $2.8 trillion

Real Estate Investing in New York as a Foreigner: A Complete Guide

Have you ever considered investing in New York as a foreigner but needed to figure out how? New York is widely considered a safe haven for foreign real estate investors, with thousands of investors from China, Oceania, and Europe owning property there. And there are multiple reasons for its...

nonresidentinvestor.com

Or the state of NY should go after the additional $280 billion just be using market value for taxes vs assessed value!
But guess what? How many NY property owners will be moving rather than pay the additional $280 billion?

Bang! Won't survive appeal...

 

[justoffal]

Bang!

Once again I say....gone on appeal.

 

[healthmyths]

Bang! Won't survive appeal...

I agree 100%! James didn't know the differences and there was NO fraud involved!

 

[tahuyaman]

Again, tell it to the judge.

I won’t need to. A higher court will after his portion is over.

 

[healthmyths]

I've already answered your question 4-5 times.

OK... I've answered the question as simply as possible but for you here is the simplest answer.
As it has been pointed out many times, there are 3 values used regarding property values.

• Market Value: What a buyer will pay (This is what Trump used for valuing his Mar-a-Largo property) Which was
• Appraised value: A home appraisal is an objective, third-party assessment of a home’s market value.
• Assessed value is a figure local governments use to determine property tax.

https://www.americanfinancing.net/mortgage-basics/assessed-appraised-market-value-difference#

Typically, appraised values are higher than assessed values.

Assessed Value Vs. Appraised Value | Bankrate

These two terms sound similar, but there are key differences that can be crucial in determining how much a home is worth.

www.bankrate.com

How do Bank loans get the values:
Collateral value is typically determined by looking at the recent sale prices of similar assets or having the asset appraised by a qualified expert.

Collateral Value: Definition, How It's Used, and LTV Ratios

The term collateral value refers to the fair market value of the assets used to secure a loan.

www.investopedia.com

But the Mar-a-Lago finding in particular is raising eyebrows among real estate and legal experts because of the metric Judge Engoron relied on: the county tax assessor’s appraisal value.
From 2011-2021, the Palm Beach County Assessor appraised the market value of Mar-a-Lago at between $18 million and $27.6 million,” Engoron wrote in his ruling.
The judge noted Trump valued Mar-a-Lago at between $426.5 million and $612 million, “an overvaluation of at least 2,300%, compared to the assessor’s appraisal.”
But it’s widely known that the tax assessor valuation is typically, though not always, less than what a property would command on the open market.
In other words, it’s not an apples-to-apples comparison.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/03/business/trump-fraud-judge-mar-a-lago/index.html

" A nearby vacant lot (2.3 acres) is for sale on Zillow for $200 million," John LeFevre, a former investment banker who created the Goldman Sachs Elevator social media account, wrote alongside a screengrab of the listing. "Mar-a-Lago sits on 17 acres, with waterfront on both sides.
2.28 acres for sale..$150,000,000... average per acre $65,217,391.30
Trump's Mar-a-Largo that Judge Engoron said was 2,300% above appraised value that with the above 2.28 acres/acre price of $65,217,391.30 X 17 acres or $1,108,695,652 --- $1.108 Billion dollars
Now Trump's use of Mar-a-Largo as collateral market value of $1.108 Billion dollars was 66% more valuable than what Trump valued Mar-a-Lago as high as $739 million.

https://apnews.com/article/trump-maralago-lawsuit-palm-beach-51fea4e520b1901

 

[justoffal]

I won’t need to. A higher court will after his portion is over.

Yep.... They have no idea how big this thing is or who they might be trying to take on.

 

[pknopp]

OK... I've answered the question as simply as possible but for you here is the simplest answer.
As it has been pointed out many times, there are 3 values used regarding property values.

• Market Value: What a buyer will pay (This is what Trump used for valuing his Mar-a-Largo property) Which was
• Appraised value: A home appraisal is an objective, third-party assessment of a home’s market value.
• Assessed value is a figure local governments use to determine property tax.

https://www.americanfinancing.net/mortgage-basics/assessed-appraised-market-value-difference#

Typically, appraised values are higher than assessed values.

Assessed Value Vs. Appraised Value | Bankrate

These two terms sound similar, but there are key differences that can be crucial in determining how much a home is worth.

www.bankrate.com

How do Bank loans get the values:
Collateral value is typically determined by looking at the recent sale prices of similar assets or having the asset appraised by a qualified expert.

Collateral Value: Definition, How It's Used, and LTV Ratios

The term collateral value refers to the fair market value of the assets used to secure a loan.

www.investopedia.com

But the Mar-a-Lago finding in particular is raising eyebrows among real estate and legal experts because of the metric Judge Engoron relied on: the county tax assessor’s appraisal value.
From 2011-2021, the Palm Beach County Assessor appraised the market value of Mar-a-Lago at between $18 million and $27.6 million,” Engoron wrote in his ruling.
The judge noted Trump valued Mar-a-Lago at between $426.5 million and $612 million, “an overvaluation of at least 2,300%, compared to the assessor’s appraisal.”
But it’s widely known that the tax assessor valuation is typically, though not always, less than what a property would command on the open market.
In other words, it’s not an apples-to-apples comparison.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/03/business/trump-fraud-judge-mar-a-lago/index.html

" A nearby vacant lot (2.3 acres) is for sale on Zillow for $200 million," John LeFevre, a former investment banker who created the Goldman Sachs Elevator social media account, wrote alongside a screengrab of the listing. "Mar-a-Lago sits on 17 acres, with waterfront on both sides.
2.28 acres for sale..$150,000,000... average per acre $65,217,391.30
Trump's Mar-a-Largo that Judge Engoron said was 2,300% above appraised value that with the above 2.28 acres/acre price of $65,217,391.30 X 17 acres or $1,108,695,652 --- $1.108 Billion dollars
Now Trump's use of Mar-a-Largo as collateral market value of $1.108 Billion dollars was 66% more valuable than what Trump valued Mar-a-Lago as high as $739 million.

https://apnews.com/article/trump-maralago-lawsuit-palm-beach-51fea4e520b1901

View attachment 888351

He lied concerning the size. He tripled the size. Size is size is size..

 

[justoffal]

He lied concerning the size. He tripled the size. Size is size is size..

Nah.... That's what you don't get. That doesn't even enter into it.

The Bank looked....they knew...
They were satisfied. This did not happen in a vacuum.

Jo

 

[pknopp]

Nah.... That's what the don't get.
That doesn't even enter into it.
The Bank looked....they knew...
They were satisfied. This did not happen in a vacuum.

I've addressed this 20 times. Banks are as corrupt as Trump.

The laws were put in place to protect the taxpayers, not the banks.

 

[Clipper]

Then you tell me what this means...

The FACT is this:
"It’s up to me now, and will do my best to have a final decision by Jan. 31st,"
Engoron said after hours of closing statements......
The judge found Trump liable for fraud in September, leaving the trial to focus largely on how much money he should surrender as ill-gotten gains. Trump has appealed that order and is almost certain to appeal any verdict against him.

https://www.reuters.com/legal/trumps-370-million-civil-fraud-trial-set-conclude-ny-2024-01-11/#:~:text=The%20judge%20found%20Trump%20liable,appeal%20any%20verdict%20against%20him.

It means that at this point in the trial, which is the penalty phase, the Judge will have to decide how many millions of dollars Trump will be penalized for fraud.