"Every real estate developer everywhere does this" says Kevin O'Leary reacts to Trump civil fraud case

[justoffal]

State only. Testimony from the defense blew this out of the water. Even the fine, if warranted is way excessive for the so called 'crimes'.
Heard Engeron has lost four previous appeals. This has a real good shot at making it five.

SCOTUS can intercede for excessive damages...

 

[justoffal]

So what? O'Leary just blew the whistle that the real estate market is run by developers who are all committng fraud, along with Wall St. banksters. So Trump should be let off the hook?

Should we let all drug dealers & drug lords off the hook because most of them are getting away with it?

Drug dealers don't build anything.....and once again the word Fraud does not apply. If it did the banks would it of have brought the law suit.

 

[healthmyths]

What he did was mislead about the size.

How Forbes Exposed Trumpâs Lies About The Size Of His Penthouse

I'll make this simple for you. Bank is willing to loan 80% of value. Value is somewhat easy to state. Say it's (just to keep it easy) $200 a square foot. So your property is 200 square feet.

The bank is willing to loan 80% of that. Trump claims his property is 500 square feet to get more money.

Now is it also on the banks for not actually doing their due diligence? Absolutely, and that is why we need people to overlook and prosecute this stuff. Should the bankers also be in court? Absolutely.

But none of that doesnt mean Trump isn't guilty.

How Forbes Exposed Trumpâs Lies About The Size Of His Penthouse

You realize that almost all real estate web sites show how many square feet the property takes up?
For example:
at Trump's property where the question of his stating 30,000 sq.ft. vs 10,000 any organization
can see immediately the estimated sq. footage.
This is for a 1 bedroom condo at Trump towers address :721 5th Ave, Manhattan, NY 10022

721 5th Ave, New York, NY 10022 | Zillow

721 5th Ave, New York NY, is a Condo home that contains 1052 sq ft and was built in 1983.It contains 1 bedroom and 1 bathroom.This home last sold for $13,300,000 in April 2011. The Zestimate for this Condo is $3,034,100, which has increased by $249,428 in the last 30 days.The Rent Zestimate...

www.zillow.com

1 bed, 1 bath , 1,052 sqft

Now here is the dispute:
Forbes subsequently estimated the size of the apartment at 30,000 sq ft (2,800 m2), with a valuation of $100 million. The property records for the apartment later showed that it was 11,000 sq ft (1,000 m2) in size, with an estimated value of $65 million.

Trump Tower penthouse of Donald Trump - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In summary,The lending banks had considerably more accurate access than my simple Google inquiries and I found out the answers... so why didn't the Trump lenders dispute these numbers? Simple answer...
given the size and number of Trump's property, and future values, these lenders could have reduced their own valuations! So why didn't they?

 

[SavannahMann]

You realize that almost all real estate web sites show how many square feet the property takes up?
For example:
at Trump's property where the question of his stating 30,000 sq.ft. vs 10,000 any organization
can see immediately the estimated sq. footage.
This is for a 1 bedroom condo at Trump towers address :721 5th Ave, Manhattan, NY 10022

721 5th Ave, New York, NY 10022 | Zillow

721 5th Ave, New York NY, is a Condo home that contains 1052 sq ft and was built in 1983.It contains 1 bedroom and 1 bathroom.This home last sold for $13,300,000 in April 2011. The Zestimate for this Condo is $3,034,100, which has increased by $249,428 in the last 30 days.The Rent Zestimate...

www.zillow.com

1 bed, 1 bath , 1,052 sqft

Now here is the dispute:
Forbes subsequently estimated the size of the apartment at 30,000 sq ft (2,800 m2), with a valuation of $100 million. The property records for the apartment later showed that it was 11,000 sq ft (1,000 m2) in size, with an estimated value of $65 million.

Trump Tower penthouse of Donald Trump - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In summary,The lending banks had considerably more accurate access than my simple Google inquiries and I found out the answers... so why didn't the Trump lenders dispute these numbers? Simple answer...
given the size and number of Trump's property, and future values, these lenders could have reduced their own valuations! So why didn't they?

So it is buyer beware. If the buyer, or lender doesn’t check the numbers that is their fault? Great.

So tell me why Volkswagen was awful for their software patch that cheated on the fuel economy and exhaust numbers?

What was corrupt about Enron?

What was the problem with Bernie Madoff again?

It is not the responsibility of the person making the claim to insure it is accurate, why do we have any laws about how business is conducted in this nation? Patent violation? You should have known better than put the information out there.

It is the big business version of the idiotic claim from the 1970’s. Lock your cars. Don’t let a good boy go bad. The idea of victim blaming isn’t new. But it is always a bad policy.

 

[justoffal]

So it is buyer beware. If the buyer, or lender doesn’t check the numbers that is their fault? Great.

So tell me why Volkswagen was awful for their software patch that cheated on the fuel economy and exhaust numbers?

What was corrupt about Enron?

What was the problem with Bernie Madoff again?

It is not the responsibility of the person making the claim to insure it is accurate, why do we have any laws about how business is conducted in this nation? Patent violation? You should have known better than put the information out there.

It is the big business version of the idiotic claim from the 1970’s. Lock your cars. Don’t let a good boy go bad. The idea of victim blaming isn’t new. But it is always a bad policy.

What victim?

 

[SavannahMann]

What victim?

Trump inflated his own worth to get more favorable loan rates. Those rates denied the bank, and behind that, the investors of additional profit.

You know. The stockholders who get paid for the money the bank earns in payments from loans?

 

[healthmyths]

Trump inflated his own worth to get more favorable loan rates. Those rates denied the bank, and behind that, the investors of additional profit.

You know. The stockholders who get paid for the money the bank earns in payments from loans?

 

[SavannahMann]

View attachment 906076

So what was Bernie Maddoff doing wrong again? Or Enron? Or Volkswagen?

 

[WEATHER53]

Watch Kevin O'Leary reaction to Trump's New York civil fraud case by the CNN reporter:


"Well, let's leave out Trump for a minute, and let's leave out politics, and just talk about what happens in real estate development anywhere.
So, if you're a developer and you've got a building on the block, anywhere in America, and it's worth, let's say, $500 million, and you want to build a building right beside it, you go to the bank and say, "This building is worth $500 million. I'd like to borrow a construction finance loan against this asset, and I want you to tell me it's worth $500 million too."
And by the way, forget about Trump, every single real estate developer everywhere on earth does this.
They always talk about their asset being worth a lot and the bank says no. That's just the way it is.
So in this case, what I'm trying to figure out, and I'm not pro or con, or I don't care about the politics, who lost money?
Nobody. The bank got paid back the construction finance loan, and a new building was built.

And O'Leary goes on...
If you're going to sue this case and win, you've gotta sue every real estate developer everywhere. This is all they do.
This is what they do all day long every day.
So I don't think this thing will ever survive appeal regardless of what the fine is. This doesn't even make sense.

Now Those of you that aren't aware of this, let's put this into something you can comprehend.
In Dallas, Texas this property has a Zillow Market value of as high as $29.36M...

But the city of Dallas says the "Taxable Value" value for tax appraisal for the city, School,College, Hospital,

View attachment 887755

So as O'Leary states... "Every real estate developer everywhere does this':
Market value:

Real Estate & Homes For Sale - 42610 Homes For Sale | Zillow

Zillow has 42610 homes for sale. View listing photos, review sales history, and use our detailed real estate filters to find the perfect place.

www.zillow.com

Start now Home value Zestimate $21,745,900 Zestimate range $15.87M - $29.36M Last 30-day change
Highest Market value of this property: $29,360,000
Tax value of this property: the most: $18,923,660
A 64% of market value...

So in the Trump case using the same ratios Trump has done as O'Leary says..
"every single real estate developer everywhere on earth does this. "

People who know something
Shut up for those who don’t

 

[justoffal]

Trump inflated his own worth to get more favorable loan rates. Those rates denied the bank, and behind that, the investors of additional profit.

You know. The stockholders who get paid for the money the bank earns in payments from loans?

Ahhh....so now you have identified the guilty party.....the Bank that approved the loan and signed off on it.

 

[SavannahMann]

Ahhh....so now you have identified the guilty party.....the Bank that approved the loan and signed off on it.

Ah. I see. Buyer beware is now the law of the land. Great.

Tesla has a new ad campaign coming out. Tesla is the safest automobile in history. All other cars are death traps.

Volkswagen deserves a lot of money back. The fines they paid for spoofing the emissions tests with the software. You should have known they were lying. Suckers.

 

[justoffal]

Ah. I see. Buyer beware is now the law of the land. Great.

Tesla has a new ad campaign coming out. Tesla is the safest automobile in history. All other cars are death traps.

Volkswagen deserves a lot of money back. The fines they paid for spoofing the emissions tests with the software. You should have known they were lying. Suckers.

The bank is not the buyer....the bank is the originator......
Loans 101: Application is made
Information is reviewed
Appraisal is ordered ( paid for by the applicant )
( No Appraisals? Time for a lawyer! Big time dropping of the ball! )
Originator approves and accepts the terms.


And no.... I don't see VW the same way at all....in a sense VW was caught by the industry equivalent of an appraiser albeit on a far more technical level.
Trump was outed by an investigative group that flagged his transactions and to be sure they were worthy of investigation as are most likely nearly 100%
of all high level RE Transactions in that zip code.... This is not whataboutism it is established practice and selective rebuke. I say the practice is wrong
but if there is going to be a rebuke lets get some bank officers locked up as well. Now this...THIS is where it will get interesting. As you dig into the NYC
area financial web....one never knows who is connected or who may be involved. Charlie Rangel was famous for this stuff......but everyhone just looked the other way.
Are we now going to Actually LOOK? I seriously doubt it.....considering where it might lead.

JO

 

[pknopp]

You realize that almost all real estate web sites show how many square feet the property takes up?
For example:
at Trump's property where the question of his stating 30,000 sq.ft. vs 10,000 any organization
can see immediately the estimated sq. footage.
This is for a 1 bedroom condo at Trump towers address :721 5th Ave, Manhattan, NY 10022

721 5th Ave, New York, NY 10022 | Zillow

721 5th Ave, New York NY, is a Condo home that contains 1052 sq ft and was built in 1983.It contains 1 bedroom and 1 bathroom.This home last sold for $13,300,000 in April 2011. The Zestimate for this Condo is $3,034,100, which has increased by $249,428 in the last 30 days.The Rent Zestimate...

www.zillow.com

1 bed, 1 bath , 1,052 sqft

Now here is the dispute:
Forbes subsequently estimated the size of the apartment at 30,000 sq ft (2,800 m2), with a valuation of $100 million. The property records for the apartment later showed that it was 11,000 sq ft (1,000 m2) in size, with an estimated value of $65 million.

Trump Tower penthouse of Donald Trump - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In summary,The lending banks had considerably more accurate access than my simple Google inquiries and I found out the answers... so why didn't the Trump lenders dispute these numbers? Simple answer...
given the size and number of Trump's property, and future values, these lenders could have reduced their own valuations! So why didn't they?

No idea how this addresses my point. I've covered this countless times.

 

[hadit]

Trump inflated his own worth to get more favorable loan rates. Those rates denied the bank, and behind that, the investors of additional profit.

You know. The stockholders who get paid for the money the bank earns in payments from loans?

Sounds like somebody at the bank needs to be fired and the bank be disgraced. Yet, nothing.

 

[justoffal]

No idea how this addresses my point. I've covered this countless times.

The point is no one was fooled when the loan was made.....
if you think for one second that a high level lending institution wasn't aware of
exactly what they were writing a multi million dollar loan against you are delusional.
Trump was a good customer with a good payback record ... and he paid back again.
The Bank made money, the stock holders made money, the Feds and the State got their cut....

I dunno....what I see is maybe some procedural fines for misinformation. That's really it
and probably some discipline for the bank officers. Other than that....this is total BS

 

[justoffal]

Sounds like somebody at the bank needs to be fired and the bank be disgraced. Yet, nothing.

That's where its going to get interesting.....depending on who they are and how they are connected and to whom.
This is why I made the post ...... "The 800 million pound Gorilla in the Latita James case"

 

[pknopp]

The point is no one was fooled when the load was made.....
if you think for one second that a high level lending institution wasn't aware of
exactly what they were writing a multi million dollar loan against you are delusional.
Trump was a good customer with a good payback record ... and he paid back again.
The Bank made money, the stock holders made money, the Feds and the State got their cut....

I dunno....what I see is maybe some procedural fines for misinformation. That's really it
and probably some discipline for the bank officers. Other than that....this is total BS

I've covered this many times. Banks are every bit as corrupt as Trump. It's why we have had to bail them out and the reason for these laws.

Should there be bankers being charged also? Yes.

 

[Delldude]

Trump inflated his own worth to get more favorable loan rates. Those rates denied the bank, and behind that, the investors of additional profit.

You know. The stockholders who get paid for the money the bank earns in payments from loans?

Lenders are required to check all those things out before approving a loan. It's what they call 'due diligence'.

You should remember the socialist housing fiasco a decade or so ago where banks were pressured into selling homes to people who never could afford them in the first place, don't you?

The gov't tossed due diligence out the window and it collapsed the economy.

Trump's bankers weren't that stupid.

 

[justoffal]

I've covered this many times. Banks are every bit as corrupt as Trump. It's why we have had to bail them out and the reason for these laws.

Should there be bankers being charged also? Yes.

Sure...they saw a quick buck and grabbed it.
Same thing happens at every car dealership that authors loans.

JO

 

[healthmyths]

So what was Bernie Maddoff doing wrong again? Or Enron? Or Volkswagen?

Bernie was convicted of fraud, money laundering, and other related crimes, for which he was sentenced to 150 years in federal prison. Bernie Madoff died in prison on April 14, 2021, at the age of 82.
The Justice Department announced today that the Madoff Victim Fund (MVF) began its ninth distribution of over $158.9 million in funds ...
The difference between Trump and Madoff is none of the $450+ million was "loaned" NOT INVESTED to Trump .
Every loan was paid back.
But although the bank didn’t conduct its own full appraisals of Trump’s properties, it sometimes gave sizable “haircuts” to the values he’d placed on such holdings as Trump Tower and his golf courses, Haigh said.

Banker says Trump’s financial statements were key to loan approvals, but there were 'sanity checks'

Donald Trump obtained millions in loans using financial statements that a court has since deemed fraudulent, a retired bank official testified.

apnews.com