Even Muslims don't believe that a person exists at conception

Midnight FM

Gold Member
Joined
May 4, 2025
Messages
797
Reaction score
349
Points
143

A relevant hadith suggests that the moment of ensoulment is 120 days:

Muslims apparently believe that a fetus has a soul at 120 days. Therefore, prior to that, we can argue that it isn't a person, regardless of whether or not it is biologically alive.

I honestly don't know how a person can believe that a zygote is person from the moment of conception, when common sense alone would dictate that it isn't, and even "conservative" views on abortion wouldn't agree with this. I honestly would chalk it up to a lack of critical thought, if nothing else.
 
It's not a person till after birth. That way if you don't like the color you see during the crowning you can terminate it.
I would argue it is a person when it has its own consciousness.
 

A relevant hadith suggests that the moment of ensoulment is 120 days:

Muslims apparently believe that a fetus has a soul at 120 days. Therefore, prior to that, we can argue that it isn't a person, regardless of whether or not it is biologically alive.

I honestly don't know how a person can believe that a zygote is person from the moment of conception, when common sense alone would dictate that it isn't, and even "conservative" views on abortion wouldn't agree with this. I honestly would chalk it up to a lack of critical thought, if nothing else.
Therefore, prior to that, we can argue that it isn't a person, regardless of whether or not it is biologically alive.
what is it then?

a tumor?

a hippo?

a squirrel?
 

A relevant hadith suggests that the moment of ensoulment is 120 days:

Muslims apparently believe that a fetus has a soul at 120 days. Therefore, prior to that, we can argue that it isn't a person, regardless of whether or not it is biologically alive.

I honestly don't know how a person can believe that a zygote is person from the moment of conception, when common sense alone would dictate that it isn't, and even "conservative" views on abortion wouldn't agree with this. I honestly would chalk it up to a lack of critical thought, if nothing else.
If a zygote isn't a human being, what species is it. Muslims might have a religious belief that does not exist outside of that religion.
 
I honestly don't know how a person can believe that a zygote is person from the moment of conception, when common sense alone would dictate that it isn't,
We can quibble over the definition of "person".
Reality is, from the moment of conception, the zygote is an individual human life in the first stage of development.
 
We can quibble over the definition of "person".
Reality is, from the moment of conception, the zygote is an individual human life in the first stage of development.
And it has no brain or consciousness to speak of.
 
The same species as a skin cell or a sperm cell.


Being a "person" isn't about being a member of a species.
Except that the zygote is growing and maturing. Being a person is a cultural construct, right? Not every living human being is a person. Blacks aren't persons. Jews aren't persons.

Zygote are living human beings, just not persons entitled to live. Do you know how insane that sounds?
 
And it has no brain or consciousness to speak of.

How many times does it have to be repeated that what a zygote has or doesn't have is not even relevant in regard to abortion since surgical abortions don't take place that early?

Also, how many abortion threads are you going to start? This is like the 30th one. :lol: You seem to be intentionally spamming this site....why the need for a new abortion thread every 5 minutes?
 
Except that the zygote is growing and maturing. Being a person is a cultural construct, right? Not every living human being is a person. Blacks aren't persons. Jews aren't persons.

Zygote are living human beings, just not persons entitled to live. Do you know how insane that sounds?
It doesn't matter "if it's growing". It hasn't grown to the point that it qualifies as having a right to life yet.
 

A relevant hadith suggests that the moment of ensoulment is 120 days:

Muslims apparently believe that a fetus has a soul at 120 days. Therefore, prior to that, we can argue that it isn't a person, regardless of whether or not it is biologically alive.

I honestly don't know how a person can believe that a zygote is person from the moment of conception, when common sense alone would dictate that it isn't, and even "conservative" views on abortion wouldn't agree with this. I honestly would chalk it up to a lack of critical thought, if nothing else.
At that very moment of conception, the Zygote has all the DNA needed to become a man or a woman. From that point, the Zygote grows and continues to grow until about 30 years of age. Then, it begins to degenerate until death. But, even as the human degenerates, it is alive. Not only that, but at conception, the Zygote's DNA is specific to that individual life form that has begun. Different from anyone else including the mother or father. Therefore, scientifically, it's not part of the mother. Not anymore than a plant is part of the ground it grows in. So, when a woman says "It's my body" and I can remove any part of my body, that Zygote is not her body.

Now, a plant needs the food or nutrients the ground can give it. The Zygote needs the food or nutrients the mother can give her eventual born child. When the plant breaks the top of the dirt and comes into the world of air, it still needs nutrients the ground gives. When a child is born, it still needs nutrients its parents can give. In today's world, if the mother cannot nurse, we have tools to use and fake milk to feed the child. But, the child cannot live on its own by itself. Anymore than a plant can with respects to the ground still nurturing the plant.

So, with respect to killing a zygote, embryo or fetus, when can a plant seed growing be killed and by what? An outside force that makes a conscious decision end the plant's life. Perhaps a mole, bug or bird. Or, a drought and not enough nutrients in the ground. The plant so much wants to grow and develop to become its full measure of life. With a zygote, embryo or fetus, same thing. the child at any stage is growing for the purpose of living and fulfilling its full measure of living. With abortion, it's a conscious decision of the mother, mother/father to end the struggling growing zygote, embryo or fetus.

At this point, whether the life of the plant or the new human at conception has a right to have its life ended becomes a philosophical decision based upon morals and ethics. There are Fruitarians that believe the only things that can be eaten are those fruits or whatever that has fallen off the plan or trees. Anything else is a moral equivalent to murder. Vegetarians don't take it that far but view killing animals for food is also murder and immoral. Then, there are cannibals who see killing humans and eating them is not immoral. No matter how we look at killing, it always is for one thing, "WANTS and NEEDS." The killing of an unborn no matter how along the way it is from birth is still a matter of wants and needs. The wanting of selfish desires and the inability to feel love for her unborn child. A need to end the life that will cause financial difficulties or relationship difficulties. A need for selfish desires over the right of a separate individual growing inside of the woman. It's mother. Some mother.

Enters philosophy, religion and cultural laws. Also, the only and one true God. Not the God of 4,000 years ago or 2,000 years ago laws and commandments. But, today's laws and commandments. Today's much like 2,000 years ago, under the law of Christ, the unborn is sacred and known to our Father in Heaven and his Son, Jesus Christ. The mother and father's decision was made before intercourse. To decide to have children after intercourse is nothing more than a selfish unholy desire of of unholy wants and needs.
 
15th post

New Topics

Back
Top Bottom