EV battery swapping

[leftwinger]

Seems to work for them "Surrons" and all the knockoff ones too.
The battery is not small, though.
It's huge. Idk what voltage, but they are 50Ah.
I encountered a kid that had one and we got to talking. I know my shit.
I don't even want a bike that weighs as much as that battery. Taleria or something like that?
And then there's the frame and wheels and everything on top of all all that.
That's the uhh..maximum efficiency of human propulsion by electric there is, IMO.
Up to a small/medium sized light personal vehicle.
I'll pull a number out my ass and say up to about 550 lbs. Plus rider.
You could probably E-do like up to a GPZ 950. But it won't get 50 mpg.
Not sure what the range will be. Not as far as a gas-powered inline 4 cylinder engine.

It could be able to be done in about a minute.
All it would take is a box-type plug in thing and standardized batteries.
Direct drive works.

If it was a pack with a connector and you just bolt it in and plug the connector in. 15 min if all was ready to go? Remember at this time it may be a ton of weight to move out and put a charged one in. Going to be some big bolts too.

 

[The Duke]

If it was a pack with a connector and you just bolt it in and plug the connector in. 15 min if all was ready to go? Remeber at this time it may be a to of weight to have to move out and put a charged one in. Going to be some big bolts too.

The thing is with like ..Tesla car cells? That's a lot of moving parts.
If 1 cell goes bad, performance will suffer.
There's probably over 1K in a Tesla.
Any lithium ion battery packs are the same.
Some even use the same batteries.
They put a bunch of like..a little bigger than AA batteries in series and parallel to provide the voltage and range.
I think the batteries themselves should be much bigger and have more voltage and amp hours.
Gah! What I mean is we need less cell count and less moving parts in a battery pack for the same performance.

 

[egp320i]

It could be able to be done in about a minute.
All it would take is a box-type plug in thing and standardized batteries.
Direct drive works. Switch a depleted battery out for a fully charged one and pay whatever.
The company charges up your depleted battery and bills the next guy for your charged battery.
It could work.

is it not the point that you are changing the battery because it's at end of life, not just doing a quick swap?

per the rules the battery has to be 100% discharged, then it can take and I am not sure why up to an hour to run diagnostics so the computer sees the battery as legit and in good shape

try that at a jiffy lube type place with kids who are not trained.....yeah that won't end well

 

[leftwinger]

The thing is with like ..Tesla car cells? That's a lot of moving parts.
If 1 cell goes bad, performance will suffer.
There's probably over 1K in a Tesla.
Any lithium ion battery packs are the same.
Some even use the same batteries.

Yes. Its a series of batteries in the olden EV days. One bad one drops your full power I would think? Not sure how they deal with that? Maybe have a lot of over voltage so a few can go bad?

 

[The Duke]

Yes. Its a series of batteries in the olden EV days. One bad one drops your full power I would think? Not sure how they deal with that? Maybe have a lot of over voltage so a few can go bad?

1 bad cell is a catastrophe, and when there's a lot of them, the chances of that happening increases.
The more of them there are, the greater chances one goes bad.
It can get where the battery won't even take a charge.

 

[leftwinger]

1 bad cell is a catastrophe, and when there's a lot of them, the chances of that happening increases.

If it became a short vs. an open it could be ignored? I really dont know enough to comment.

I was picturing bank of rooftop solar. If one dies? You can keep going.

 

[The Duke]

If it became a short vs. an open it could be ignored?

No. Maybe a decent BMS could do something, but it will never be 100% again.
If it gets too bad the thing won't even charge.
Could brick an entire Tesla battery or any other battery pack for that matter.

 

[leftwinger]

per the rules the battery has to be 100% discharged,

That seemed outrageous? No one discharges 100% before they plug into charger at home garage do they?

 

[egp320i]

That seemed outrageous? No one discharges 100% before they plug into charger at home garage do they?

no but lithium batteries hold a charge, it has to be discharged usually down to 10-20%, if it's going to be recycled then 100%

we are talking replacing a EOL battery, not a fully functional one, you never want to discharge your Li battery to 100%, you could brick it

 

[The Duke]

That seemed outrageous? No one discharges 100% before they plug into charger at home garage do they?

That's a recipe for killing a battery. Even the BMSes stop the discharge before a battery can't be charged back up.

 

[SaxonJackson]

Let's be honest, the only thing that can make EV's survive is to swap the battery like a power tool -






Ignore all manufacturers agreeing on a standard, it just takes one to set that standard because others will have to play catch up.

When will Milwaukee or Dewalt or Ryobi jump into the electric car market?

 

[WorldWatcher]

not really, trying to say you can just swap a battery in and out quickly like a cordless drill is the whole point

can it be done.......likely, can it be done in less than 3-6 hours? unlikely

With robotic systems and a proberly designed swapable battery assembly, it can be done in about 2 minutes (total maybe 5 from pulling up to the swapping station).

They key is car designed for it from the beginning.

WW

 

[egp320i]

With robotic systems and a proberly designed swapable battery assembly, it can be done in about 2 minutes (total maybe 5 from pulling up to the swapping station).

They key is car designed for it from the beginning.

WW

Not sure what the point is, you charge the battery at home, why would you need to spend $$$ to swap your battery out charged with somebody else's battery? you have no idea if they ran it down to almost zero
robotics are not cheap, they will pass this onto the consumer to offset the cost of setup

they are not a charity, they want to make $$ and that's quite a bit of upfront money

too many cars with different batteries, are they all going to have the same?.......NOPE

so now they need to purchase $$ batteries for inventory that may or may not go into a vehicle
they are servicing

this sounds like a penny stock and them going under is more likely

 

[WorldWatcher]

Not sure what the point is,

You said, and I quote: "....can it be done in less than 3-6 hours? unlikely"

I showed you where it can be done in under 5 minutes of the engineers go to work and design for an overall system.

you charge the battery at home, why would you need to spend $$$ to swap your battery out charged with somebody else's battery?

I didn't say anything about changing the battery at home.

you have no idea if they ran it down to almost zero
robotics are not cheap, they will pass this onto the consumer to offset the cost of setup

There of course is a cost. As a one off? Sure, prohibitively expensive. Apply economics of scale and it may be possible to make it (a) affordable, and (b) cheaper in the long run then current custom battery installs and/or maintenance on an ICE engine.

they are not a charity, they want to make $$ and that's quite a bit of upfront money

Of course they will make a profit. Just like care dealers, gas stations and maintenance shops for ICE cars currently do.

No one said anything about "charity".

too many cars with different batteries, are they all going to have the same?.......NOPE

That is the point you are missing. Car designs would change from a systems standpoint to standardize battery specifications and installations.

Just like engineeers and automotive manufactures have already been working on standards such as IEEE 2030.1.1-2021 (DC quick chargering and bidirectional chargers).

so now they need to purchase $$ batteries for inventory that may or may not go into a vehicle
they are servicing

No, they purchase 1, one, uno battery with the vehicle. Then that battery gets swapped out at the swap station in the future.

Or

Batteries aren't "purchased" with the vehicle, they leased.

Or

Another model brandies about is a subscription model where instead of "owning" the battery, X number of swaps per month (variable based on driving needs) are available on the contract with extra swaps being availalbe as a rider on longer trips.

this sounds like a penny stock and them going under is more likely

That's alright, ignore it now.

But if we can launch recoverable spaceships and make it the cost per kilogram to LEO plumet, we can figure out how to swap standard battery modules in Earth bound vehicles.

WW