Eric Holder Brings A Circus To The Courts

[mudwhistle]

This trial should be televised.. the American people have a right to see it.

That would have propelled these terrorists from acting into overacting. Nothing would please them more than the publicity.

Agree initially.

But over the long period of time this whole process is expected to take I'd bet such publicity would backfire on them in a public opinion tsunami, and sooner rather than later. Televise it C-SPAN-style, just video and open mics with subtitles if one of the a-holes mutters something. Let the world see and hear these people.

Better start learn Arabic then. Takes a couple of years to become fairly proficient.

 

[Katzndogz]

These guys have been in custody for a long time. They should have been broken years ago. They should have been Stockholm Syndromed into submission by now.

 

[mudwhistle]

These guys have been in custody for a long time. They should have been broken years ago. They should have been Stockholm Syndromed into submission by now.

If they had really been tortured that would be true......but they lied.

Truth is GITMO guards suffer the most there.

No Cock_meat sandwiches for them.

 

[Dante]

Everyone told them that this was going to happen and now they're doing it.

so what? are you this big a douchebagh you fail to comprehend what the founding fathers left us? a system of laws, when working correctly, that exists outside petty emotions and ideological shit like you spew constantly? and here I thought it was an act.

I agree with some of the people attending the trial.


"I would have preferred this would have been in federal court," said Blake Allison of Lyme, N.H., whose 49-year-old wife, Anna, was aboard the first plane that hit the first tower. "The public needs to see how in the world you could defend these horrible criminals, and how the prosecutor will be able to prove to the country and the world this is a fair and just system."

Sept. 11 terrorism trial opens at Guantanamo Bay - Los Angeles Times

 

[Katzndogz]

Muslims will NEVER see our justice system as fair or just. The criteria they just is just too different from ours. This is part of the winning hearts and minds BS. Once they see how wonderful we are, they'll want to be just like us.

 

[Dante]

Muslims will NEVER see our justice system as fair or just. The criteria they just is just too different from ours. This is part of the winning hearts and minds BS. Once they see how wonderful we are, they'll want to be just like us.

that's just it.


it is not about Muslims or even the defendants. It's about us.

We will stand or fall on our principles.

 

[Staidhup]

There is no justice for the act of terrorism. Once upon a time it was call espionage, the perps were hanged immediately. But then again we were a stronger more resolute society than the pantie wastes we now have running the show.

 

[Dante]

There is no justice for the act of terrorism. Once upon a time it was call espionage, the perps were hanged immediately. But then again we were a stronger more resolute society than the pantie wastes we now have running the show.

you're a fool. It's not about justice for terrorism or even justice for the defendants.

Our system works only when we allow it to work. Principles matter more than pathetic feelings. The terrorists are mere criminals, not warriors. Would you come out from under your bad when it's all over? We'll protect you.

 

[Staidhup]

There is no justice for the act of terrorism. Once upon a time it was call espionage, the perps were hanged immediately. But then again we were a stronger more resolute society than the pantie wastes we now have running the show.

you're a fool. It's not about justice for terrorism or even justice for the defendants.

Our system works only when we allow it to work. Principles matter more than pathetic feelings. The terrorists are mere criminals, not warriors. Would you come out from under your bad when it's all over? We'll protect you.

Possibly you don't understand the meaning and intent as it regards "Jihad"? You will find their only defense rests on the fact that they are and were conducting a religious war not a crime and will site the articles of the Geneva Convention.

 

[Dante]

There is no justice for the act of terrorism. Once upon a time it was call espionage, the perps were hanged immediately. But then again we were a stronger more resolute society than the pantie wastes we now have running the show.

you're a fool. It's not about justice for terrorism or even justice for the defendants.

Our system works only when we allow it to work. Principles matter more than pathetic feelings. The terrorists are mere criminals, not warriors. Would you come out from under your bad when it's all over? We'll protect you.

Possibly you don't understand the meaning and intent as it regards "Jihad"? You will find their only defense rests on the fact that they are and were conducting a religious war not a crime and will site the articles of the Geneva Convention.

You listen to the idiots too much. Many Arabs and Most Muslims do not give Al Qeada and other groups of criminal as much credence as you do.

Maybe this is because you are an idiot and a scaredy cat? Are you a girlyman/boy or a hysterical *****?

Our system of justice does not depend on what people say. We are a nation of laws, not men in these situations.

now run along ---- the safety of under-your-bed is calling.

 

[George Costanza]

GITMO detainees are getting a taxpayer funded show to air their disdain for America and everything we stand for.

One of the things we stand for is the Bill of Rights. Frankly, I don't blame the Gitmo detainees for having more than a little disdain for America, at least the manner in which our criminal justice system somehow just seemed to stop working for them.

 

[Katzndogz]

This isn't a trial, it's a military tribunal, it's not in the United States and have never been to the United States. They should have been executed in Afghanistan or wherever they were captured.

 

[mudwhistle]

GITMO detainees are getting a taxpayer funded show to air their disdain for America and everything we stand for.

One of the things we stand for is the Bill of Rights. Frankly, I don't blame the Gitmo detainees for having more than a little disdain for America, at least the manner in which our criminal justice system somehow just seemed to stop working for them.

Sorry, but I can't agree with that.

They murdered thousands of people, not just Americans.

The only consideration I'd give them is how they want to meet Lucifer.

 

[George Costanza]

There is no justice for the act of terrorism. Once upon a time it was call espionage, the perps were hanged immediately. But then again we were a stronger more resolute society than the pantie wastes we now have running the show.

This, right here, is the main reason I am not, nor ever have been, a conservative.

 

[Katzndogz]

The judge is going way too far in accommodating these terrorists. They should be removed and put in separate rooms with closed circuit television so they can see what's going on. They won't cooperate with their attorney, not even when she debases herself for them. Not even when she demands that all other women debase themselves for them.

To these radical muslims, they will never get a fair trial because we won't accept their religious mandate to kill infidels as a valid defense.

 

[mudwhistle]

There is no justice for the act of terrorism. Once upon a time it was call espionage, the perps were hanged immediately. But then again we were a stronger more resolute society than the pantie wastes we now have running the show.

This, right here, is the main reason I am not, nor ever have been, a conservative.

Yet you're supporting their grievances?

*scratches head*

GC, they hate you for what you are, not what anyone has done to them. To them you're an insect that needs to be squashed.

 

[George Costanza]

There is no justice for the act of terrorism. Once upon a time it was call espionage, the perps were hanged immediately. But then again we were a stronger more resolute society than the pantie wastes we now have running the show.

This, right here, is the main reason I am not, nor ever have been, a conservative.

Yet you're supporting their grievances?

*scratches head*

GC, they hate you for what you are, not what anyone has done to them. To them you're an insect that needs to be squashed.

I'm aware of that. I don't support thier actions, any more than I support the actions of the clients I defend every day. But I do support their right to due process of law. To that extent, yes - I do support their grievances.

I don't think the Gitmo detainees are "enemy combatants." I don't think we are involved in a "war" with Al Quaeda or any other terrorists. I think the actions of terrorists are criminal acts, not military acts and, as such, should be handled as would any other crime - which includes affording due process of law to those accused of such crimes.

I realize that the Right does not share my views on this issue. As I said - this is why I don't count myself as a member of the Right.

 

[mudwhistle]

This, right here, is the main reason I am not, nor ever have been, a conservative.

Yet you're supporting their grievances?

*scratches head*

GC, they hate you for what you are, not what anyone has done to them. To them you're an insect that needs to be squashed.

I'm aware of that. I don't support thier actions, any more than I support the actions of the clients I defend every day. But I do support their right to due process of law. To that extent, yes - I do support their grievances.

I don't think the Gitmo detainees are "enemy combatants." I don't think we are involved in a "war" with Al Quaeda or any other terrorists. I think the actions of terrorists are criminal acts, not military acts and, as such, should be handled as would any other crime - which includes affording due process of law to those accused of such crimes.

I realize that the Right does not share my views on this issue. As I said - this is why I don't count myself as a member of the Right.

You don't have to be a member of any group. You have a right to your opinion.

The problem with this being treated like a crime is that nobody treated it like a crime. They treated it like an act of war. These guys are criminals but they're also at war with us. They use our laws to get away with their crimes. And they aren't US citizens so they don't fall under our laws. Legally they don't have rights as citizens. The crimes they're guilty of and the way they fight excludes them even from protections under the Geneva Convention. Evidence was not collected. They were not read their rights. They're basically in a limbo of their own making.

They are barbaric, uncivilized, murderous, and without remorse, and believe it or not they could slip through our legal system on a technicality. I'm sure that's not what you want.

I've met these guys. They can be very gracious hosts, yet they are into macho-ism on a scale you probably haven't seen in decades if at all. I don't think you know what we're dealing with here. These guys are the worst of the worst. http://crombouke.blogspot.com/2010/01/islam-and-hypermasculinity.html

 

[George Costanza]

The problem with this being treated like a crime is that nobody treated it like a crime. They treated it like an act of war. These guys are criminals but they're also at war with us. They use our laws to get away with their crimes.

The problem with this entire analysis is that we are not dealing with a governmental entity. I'm old fashioned, I guess - I believe a war involves two or more sovereign, governmental entities. You can go to war against Iran. You cannot go to war against a group of extremeists who like to crash airplanes into buildings because they have religious differences with America.

Oh, sure - it suits the political purpose of politicians who pander to that portion of our society that gets off on sending our troops on wild goose chases and calling it "war." But it isn't war. If the Second of the Second (my artillery batallion at Fort Sill many eons ago) blows up a building in downtown Berlin with a 105 Howitzer during a battle between American and German soldiers - that's an act of war. If some crazed Middle Eastern nut case blows up a building in downtown New York City because he hates America - that's a crime. It is NOT an act of war. The act itself is the same in both cases - blowing up a building. The difference lies in who is doing it and under what circumstances.

And they aren't US citizens so they don't fall under our laws. Legally they don't have rights as citizens.

(Sigh) The Right loves this argument - and it is flat WRONG. The 14th Amendment says: "nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

It does not say "any citizen of the United States." It says "any person." Every day, I represent undocumented people, i.e., illegal aliens, who are in custody, charged with various crimes. They are entitled to the same rights (right to counsel, speedy trial, right against self incrimination, etc.) as anyone else in the holding tank with them.

They are barbaric, uncivilized, murderous, and without remorse, and believe it or not they could slip through our legal system on a technicality. I'm sure that's not what you want.

I always have to shake my head whenever I hear that phrase - "on a technicality." It is the "technicalities" of which you speak that stand between us (you and I and all other citizens) and an oppressisve government. Wait until you are charged with a crime that could land you in prison for decades. If your lawyer tells you that he has found a flaw in the prosecution's case that is going to result in your winning the case and going free, are you going to decline because it is, after all, a "technicality"? I trust you see my point here.

I've met these guys. They can be very gracious hosts, yet they are into macho-ism on a scale you probably haven't seen in decades if at all. I don't think you know what we're dealing with here. These guys are the worst of the worst. http://crombouke.blogspot.com/2010/01/islam-and-hypermasculinity.html

I'm sure they are the worst of the worst. Doesn't matter. That's what our criminal justice system does - accommodate everyone, from the petty thief all the way up to the worst of the worst. They all get the same treatment: due process of law. That's the way it should be. After they are convicted according to due process of law, and we are arguing what their punishment should be, THEN we can talk about their being the worst of the worst. But, prior to proof of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, they are simply presumed to be innocent.

Where would we be if we meted out how much due process an accused person should be allowed, based upon the seriousness of the crime charged or the heniousness of his alleged acts? Sadly, all too many people in our country today feel that this is what we should do.

Allow me to add - it is always a pleasure to debate issues with you here, on this board. I know we disagree on a lot of things, but it is refreshing to be able to discuss those differences in a civil manner. I appreciate it very much.

 

[G.T.]

It's also worth noting that the persons who hold that our rights are divine, i.e. given by our creator - - - - - are hypocritical for also holding that they're for Americans only.