Enough with the gun issues Democrats.

[MikeK]

Great idea. Forget about the guns, but cure mental illness instead. That should be quick and easy. I wonder why nobody thought of that before.

Much easier said than done.

Detecting the pathological characteristics which attend the most serious criminal tendencies takes many hours of intense observation and often are overlooked.

 

[Pop23]

Serotonin induced schizophrenia kind of thing? I could see it, however, my point is that they've got a mental problem they're unable to fix on their own to begin with. So they toss them on drugs, because that's the quick and easy money maker for doctors. The parents of the kids just write off the side effects as "oh it'll get better" and the kids these days live in a culture of all wanting to be mentally unstable cause it's "cool" or some shit - personally I suspect half of them lie about their "depression" just so they can have an official prescription and win the victim olympics they're all so fond of playing, or worse the kid says they're sad and their parent immediately declare them as depressed because they want to live in some fantasy world where kids and teens don't go through emotional down times. (Not that there aren't some folks who suffer from depression, but I highly doubt it's as many as the stats seem to suggest. Kind of like the media acts like transgenders are half the population of the country from they way they go on about it.) Meh, on second thought, maybe all the dumb ass people taking antidepressants they don't actually need are going schizo.

It's more like ... In some cases they work, in some cases they don't work, and in other cases they make the problem worse.

Any attempt to make a solution absolute to all cases ...
Only means that your attempts mirror those of your opposition.

Antidepressants are clearly marked in packaging as far as detrimental side effects are concerned.
They should never be administered without routine supervision ... And more frequent supervision during initial stages.

It is only important to note in regards to circumstances where the pharmaceuticals actually work as desired.
If a stigma is associated with a pharmaceutical due to circumstances surrounding misuse or poor evaluation ...
Then there are people that could benefit from an appropriate approach, that will not because of the way other people react to treatment.

It's like listening to someone complain about pain ... When they have a prescription for pain meds ...
But refuse to take them because they have been convinced that if they do, they will be a junkie whoring themselves out on a street corner in a week.

.​

The point is, these types of drugs do one key thing, block the emotions that caused the depression in the first place. One of those is Empathy. Empathy is key to not acting violently toward others.

There are other methods to deal with depression and SSRI's should be the last, not the first, method of choice.

Wrong. They CAN do that, but that's not the actual intended effect.

There are other methods to deal with just about every illness you can name, but that doesn't mean that medication isn't the most effective for some cases.

You're going way too far the other direction, and appearing really obsessive into the bargain.

It actually is the effect they are supposed to do. They block the emotion that causes the depression. Empathy is one of those

Wrong. Hyper-emotional, short on logic and reason, and wrong.

SSRI anti-depressants are not intended in any way to cause flattened affect of normal emotional response. They are intended to remove the UNNATURAL depression that causes that flattened affect. If you are experiencing flattened affect, lack of empathy, or inappropriate emotions, you are having a reaction to the medication, and should report it to your doctor. Either the dose is too high, or it's a bad medication fit.

Whatever your visceral hatred of anti-depressants is, you need to get some perspective about it.

It's not just me:

Antidepressants and Violence: Problems at the Interface of Medicine and Law

In their submissions to the Committee on Safety of Medicines Expert Working Group, GlaxoSmithKline also reported that 11,491 patients entered trials comparing paroxetine with other antidepressants [5]. In this patient cohort, 44 hostile events occurred on paroxetine or other drugs, a rate of 0.38%. In the subset of trials comparing paroxetine with another SSRI, there were 16 hostile events in 2,418 patients (0.66%). These SSRI comparator trials may be confounded by indication; the SSRI comparator trials might, for instance, have included a higher proportion of patients with OCD.

Finally, in healthy volunteer studies, hostile events occurred in three of 271 (1.1%) volunteers taking paroxetine, compared with zero in 138 taking placebo [5]. Although not statistically significant, this finding is striking because hostile events are unusual in healthy volunteer trials, and this figure was higher than the rate reported in clinical populations above. GlaxoSmithKline ascribed these episodes to the fact that the volunteers were confined, although this applied to both paroxetine and placebo volunteers. One other healthy volunteer study has reported aggressive behaviour in one volunteer taking sertraline [8].

Then:

Mechanisms of antidepressant-induced violence
A link between antidepressant use and violence needs a plausible clinical mechanism through which such effects might be realised. There are comparable data on increased rates of suicidal events on active treatment compared to placebo [16,17]. In the case of suicide, several explanations have been offered for the linkage. It is argued that alleviating the motor retardation of depression, the condition being treated, might enable suicides to happen, but this cannot explain the appearance of suicidality in healthy volunteers. Mechanisms linking antidepressant treatment, rather than the condition, to adverse behavioural outcomes include akathisia, emotional disinhibition, emotional blunting, and manic or psychotic reactions to treatment. There is good evidence that antidepressant treatment can induce problems such as these and a prima facie case that akathisia, emotional blunting, and manic or psychotic reactions might lead to violence.

What am I missing when so many of the shooters were on, or recently came off, these drugs.

 

[Cecilie1200]

It's more like ... In some cases they work, in some cases they don't work, and in other cases they make the problem worse.

Any attempt to make a solution absolute to all cases ...
Only means that your attempts mirror those of your opposition.

Antidepressants are clearly marked in packaging as far as detrimental side effects are concerned.
They should never be administered without routine supervision ... And more frequent supervision during initial stages.

It is only important to note in regards to circumstances where the pharmaceuticals actually work as desired.
If a stigma is associated with a pharmaceutical due to circumstances surrounding misuse or poor evaluation ...
Then there are people that could benefit from an appropriate approach, that will not because of the way other people react to treatment.

It's like listening to someone complain about pain ... When they have a prescription for pain meds ...
But refuse to take them because they have been convinced that if they do, they will be a junkie whoring themselves out on a street corner in a week.

.​

The point is, these types of drugs do one key thing, block the emotions that caused the depression in the first place. One of those is Empathy. Empathy is key to not acting violently toward others.

There are other methods to deal with depression and SSRI's should be the last, not the first, method of choice.

Wrong. They CAN do that, but that's not the actual intended effect.

There are other methods to deal with just about every illness you can name, but that doesn't mean that medication isn't the most effective for some cases.

You're going way too far the other direction, and appearing really obsessive into the bargain.

It actually is the effect they are supposed to do. They block the emotion that causes the depression. Empathy is one of those

Wrong. Hyper-emotional, short on logic and reason, and wrong.

SSRI anti-depressants are not intended in any way to cause flattened affect of normal emotional response. They are intended to remove the UNNATURAL depression that causes that flattened affect. If you are experiencing flattened affect, lack of empathy, or inappropriate emotions, you are having a reaction to the medication, and should report it to your doctor. Either the dose is too high, or it's a bad medication fit.

Whatever your visceral hatred of anti-depressants is, you need to get some perspective about it.

It's not just me:

Antidepressants and Violence: Problems at the Interface of Medicine and Law

In their submissions to the Committee on Safety of Medicines Expert Working Group, GlaxoSmithKline also reported that 11,491 patients entered trials comparing paroxetine with other antidepressants [5]. In this patient cohort, 44 hostile events occurred on paroxetine or other drugs, a rate of 0.38%. In the subset of trials comparing paroxetine with another SSRI, there were 16 hostile events in 2,418 patients (0.66%). These SSRI comparator trials may be confounded by indication; the SSRI comparator trials might, for instance, have included a higher proportion of patients with OCD.

Finally, in healthy volunteer studies, hostile events occurred in three of 271 (1.1%) volunteers taking paroxetine, compared with zero in 138 taking placebo [5]. Although not statistically significant, this finding is striking because hostile events are unusual in healthy volunteer trials, and this figure was higher than the rate reported in clinical populations above. GlaxoSmithKline ascribed these episodes to the fact that the volunteers were confined, although this applied to both paroxetine and placebo volunteers. One other healthy volunteer study has reported aggressive behaviour in one volunteer taking sertraline [8].

Then:

Mechanisms of antidepressant-induced violence
A link between antidepressant use and violence needs a plausible clinical mechanism through which such effects might be realised. There are comparable data on increased rates of suicidal events on active treatment compared to placebo [16,17]. In the case of suicide, several explanations have been offered for the linkage. It is argued that alleviating the motor retardation of depression, the condition being treated, might enable suicides to happen, but this cannot explain the appearance of suicidality in healthy volunteers. Mechanisms linking antidepressant treatment, rather than the condition, to adverse behavioural outcomes include akathisia, emotional disinhibition, emotional blunting, and manic or psychotic reactions to treatment. There is good evidence that antidepressant treatment can induce problems such as these and a prima facie case that akathisia, emotional blunting, and manic or psychotic reactions might lead to violence.

What am I missing when so many of the shooters were on, or recently came off, these drugs.

Thanks for a VERY long post addressing a point that had **** and all to do with what I posted.

Returning to the ACTUAL topic of my post - which was NOT whether or not antidepressants can cause an adverse violent reaction in some people - do you have anything to prove that the INTENDED effect of SSRI medication is to blunt empathy and normal emotional response?

 

[MikeK]

No. Reasonable gun regulation can cut down on shootings though.

"Reasonable gun regulation." Such as?

 

[Pop23]

The point is, these types of drugs do one key thing, block the emotions that caused the depression in the first place. One of those is Empathy. Empathy is key to not acting violently toward others.

There are other methods to deal with depression and SSRI's should be the last, not the first, method of choice.

Wrong. They CAN do that, but that's not the actual intended effect.

There are other methods to deal with just about every illness you can name, but that doesn't mean that medication isn't the most effective for some cases.

You're going way too far the other direction, and appearing really obsessive into the bargain.

It actually is the effect they are supposed to do. They block the emotion that causes the depression. Empathy is one of those

Wrong. Hyper-emotional, short on logic and reason, and wrong.

SSRI anti-depressants are not intended in any way to cause flattened affect of normal emotional response. They are intended to remove the UNNATURAL depression that causes that flattened affect. If you are experiencing flattened affect, lack of empathy, or inappropriate emotions, you are having a reaction to the medication, and should report it to your doctor. Either the dose is too high, or it's a bad medication fit.

Whatever your visceral hatred of anti-depressants is, you need to get some perspective about it.

It's not just me:

Antidepressants and Violence: Problems at the Interface of Medicine and Law

In their submissions to the Committee on Safety of Medicines Expert Working Group, GlaxoSmithKline also reported that 11,491 patients entered trials comparing paroxetine with other antidepressants [5]. In this patient cohort, 44 hostile events occurred on paroxetine or other drugs, a rate of 0.38%. In the subset of trials comparing paroxetine with another SSRI, there were 16 hostile events in 2,418 patients (0.66%). These SSRI comparator trials may be confounded by indication; the SSRI comparator trials might, for instance, have included a higher proportion of patients with OCD.

Finally, in healthy volunteer studies, hostile events occurred in three of 271 (1.1%) volunteers taking paroxetine, compared with zero in 138 taking placebo [5]. Although not statistically significant, this finding is striking because hostile events are unusual in healthy volunteer trials, and this figure was higher than the rate reported in clinical populations above. GlaxoSmithKline ascribed these episodes to the fact that the volunteers were confined, although this applied to both paroxetine and placebo volunteers. One other healthy volunteer study has reported aggressive behaviour in one volunteer taking sertraline [8].

Then:

Mechanisms of antidepressant-induced violence
A link between antidepressant use and violence needs a plausible clinical mechanism through which such effects might be realised. There are comparable data on increased rates of suicidal events on active treatment compared to placebo [16,17]. In the case of suicide, several explanations have been offered for the linkage. It is argued that alleviating the motor retardation of depression, the condition being treated, might enable suicides to happen, but this cannot explain the appearance of suicidality in healthy volunteers. Mechanisms linking antidepressant treatment, rather than the condition, to adverse behavioural outcomes include akathisia, emotional disinhibition, emotional blunting, and manic or psychotic reactions to treatment. There is good evidence that antidepressant treatment can induce problems such as these and a prima facie case that akathisia, emotional blunting, and manic or psychotic reactions might lead to violence.

What am I missing when so many of the shooters were on, or recently came off, these drugs.

Thanks for a VERY long post addressing a point that had **** and all to do with what I posted.

Returning to the ACTUAL topic of my post - which was NOT whether or not antidepressants can cause an adverse violent reaction in some people - do you have anything to prove that the INTENDED effect of SSRI medication is to blunt empathy and normal emotional response?

First, I don't think I said what the INTENDED effect of SSRI medication was, what I stated was WHAT THEY DO as it applies to those that have accomplished MASS SCHOOL SHOOTINGS.

I car less as to what they are supposed to do and more of what they seem to do.

Lets look at some links that support my argument:

People who take antidepressants are '50% more likely to be convicted of assault' | Daily Mail Online

An Oxford University study found that men – and women – in their late teens and early 20s – were almost 50 per cent more likely to be convicted of offences from assault to murder when taking SSRI drugs.

This family of anti-depressants includes Prozac, as well as Seroxat, Lustral, Cipralex and Cipramil, the most commonly prescribed of the pills.

and more from the same link

Meanwhile in the US around 11 per cent of people aged 12 and over take antidepressants, including SSRIs, according to the US Centres for Disease Control and Prevention.

Men and women in their late teens and early 20s were almost 50 per cent more likely to be convicted of offences from assault to murder when they were taking SSRI drugs, new research has found

The tablets already carry a warning that the drugs are linked to suicidal thoughts in young people and it was suspected they were also linked to violence but evidence was sparse until now.

The researchers said the risk in 15 to 24 year olds is ‘not insignificant’ and that the public health implications ‘require careful consideration’.

Note the age matches the same ages as those that have participated as the gun man in these shooting. There is also evidence that by the time many of these get off the drug, it's too late, the damage is done. Connection?

See the long list of those who both list of these killers and the drugs they were on. Connection?

School Shootings - International Coalition for Drug Awareness - ICFDA

This is just a short sample

What/Reaction Drug/Med Date Where/Location Additional/Full Story
School Shooting Prozac WITHDRAWAL 2008-02-15 Illinois ** 6 Dead: 15 Wounded: Perpetrator Was in Withdrawal from Med & Acting Erratically
School Shooting Prozac Antidepressant 2005-03-24 Minnesota **10 Dead: 7 Wounded: Dosage Increased One Week before Rampage
School Shooting Paxil [Seroxat] Antidepressant 2001-03-10 Pennsylvania **14 Year Old GIRL Shoots & Wounds Classmate at Catholic School
School Shooting Zoloft Antidepressant & ADHD Med 2011-07-11 Alabama **14 Year Old Kills Fellow Middle School Student
School Shooting Zoloft Antidepressant 1995-10-12 South Carolina **15 Year Old Shoots Two Teachers, Killing One: Then Kills Himself
School Shooting Med For Depression 2009-03-13 Germany **16 Dead Including Shooter: Antidepressant Use: Shooter in Treatment For Depression
School Hostage Situation Med For Depression 2010-12-15 France **17 Year Old with Sword Holds 20 Children & Teacher Hostage
School Shooting Plot Med For Depression WITHDRAWAL 2008-08-28 Texas **18 Year Old Plots a Columbine School Attack
School Shooting Anafranil Antidepressant 1988-05-20 Illinois **29 Year Old WOMAN Kills One Child: Wounds Five: Kills Self
School Shooting Luvox/Zoloft Antidepressants 1999-04-20 Colorado **COLUMBINE: 15 Dead: 24 Wounded
School Stabbings Antidepressants 2001-06-09 Japan **Eight Dead: 15 Wounded: Assailant Had Taken 10 Times his Normal Dose of Depression Med

Watch the Michael Moore video at the end. WOW! I'm no fan of the Man, but he nailed it. AND HE'S A GUN CONTROL ADVOCATE.

It is also curious how, even though school shootings are rare as a percentage, they were almost non existent prior to the use of these drugs. As their popularity grew, so have the number of school shootings. Coincidence?

Do they work for some? I've read that they have a 75% success rate, but of the 25% in which they don't, a large number actually make their condition worse. And there is a growing thought that, of those 75%, that many are improving from the placebo effect and even more would, and many do, improve faster on other treatments or no medical treatment at all!. So the truth may actually be they are extremely over prescribed and should be the last, not as it appears to be the case, a primary treatment. ESPECIALLY IN TEENS TO EARLY 20's ADULTS who are said to be 50% more likely to be convicted of violent crime than those on other treatments, or no treatment at all.

What am I to conclude when such a large number, a percentage of which is better than 90%, of mass killings are performed by those taking this class of medication? That its an acceptable risk to public safety? I don't think so.

With far less evidence than this, we have prohibited the use of, or dramatically restricted many, many other things. But because this is ........... what?, we should look the other way while our children die at the hands of manufactured monsters?

I think the intent is clear.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Wrong. They CAN do that, but that's not the actual intended effect.

There are other methods to deal with just about every illness you can name, but that doesn't mean that medication isn't the most effective for some cases.

You're going way too far the other direction, and appearing really obsessive into the bargain.

It actually is the effect they are supposed to do. They block the emotion that causes the depression. Empathy is one of those

Wrong. Hyper-emotional, short on logic and reason, and wrong.

SSRI anti-depressants are not intended in any way to cause flattened affect of normal emotional response. They are intended to remove the UNNATURAL depression that causes that flattened affect. If you are experiencing flattened affect, lack of empathy, or inappropriate emotions, you are having a reaction to the medication, and should report it to your doctor. Either the dose is too high, or it's a bad medication fit.

Whatever your visceral hatred of anti-depressants is, you need to get some perspective about it.

It's not just me:

Antidepressants and Violence: Problems at the Interface of Medicine and Law

In their submissions to the Committee on Safety of Medicines Expert Working Group, GlaxoSmithKline also reported that 11,491 patients entered trials comparing paroxetine with other antidepressants [5]. In this patient cohort, 44 hostile events occurred on paroxetine or other drugs, a rate of 0.38%. In the subset of trials comparing paroxetine with another SSRI, there were 16 hostile events in 2,418 patients (0.66%). These SSRI comparator trials may be confounded by indication; the SSRI comparator trials might, for instance, have included a higher proportion of patients with OCD.

Finally, in healthy volunteer studies, hostile events occurred in three of 271 (1.1%) volunteers taking paroxetine, compared with zero in 138 taking placebo [5]. Although not statistically significant, this finding is striking because hostile events are unusual in healthy volunteer trials, and this figure was higher than the rate reported in clinical populations above. GlaxoSmithKline ascribed these episodes to the fact that the volunteers were confined, although this applied to both paroxetine and placebo volunteers. One other healthy volunteer study has reported aggressive behaviour in one volunteer taking sertraline [8].

Then:

Mechanisms of antidepressant-induced violence
A link between antidepressant use and violence needs a plausible clinical mechanism through which such effects might be realised. There are comparable data on increased rates of suicidal events on active treatment compared to placebo [16,17]. In the case of suicide, several explanations have been offered for the linkage. It is argued that alleviating the motor retardation of depression, the condition being treated, might enable suicides to happen, but this cannot explain the appearance of suicidality in healthy volunteers. Mechanisms linking antidepressant treatment, rather than the condition, to adverse behavioural outcomes include akathisia, emotional disinhibition, emotional blunting, and manic or psychotic reactions to treatment. There is good evidence that antidepressant treatment can induce problems such as these and a prima facie case that akathisia, emotional blunting, and manic or psychotic reactions might lead to violence.

What am I missing when so many of the shooters were on, or recently came off, these drugs.

Thanks for a VERY long post addressing a point that had **** and all to do with what I posted.

Returning to the ACTUAL topic of my post - which was NOT whether or not antidepressants can cause an adverse violent reaction in some people - do you have anything to prove that the INTENDED effect of SSRI medication is to blunt empathy and normal emotional response?

First, I don't think I said what the INTENDED effect of SSRI medication was, what I stated was WHAT THEY DO as it applies to those that have accomplished MASS SCHOOL SHOOTINGS.

Yeah, actually, you DID say that was the intended effect. Here's your quote:

"It actually is the effect they are supposed to do. They block the emotion that causes the depression. Empathy is one of those"

So either you're lying, or you have a memory like a chunk of Swiss cheese. Which would you prefer I believe?

I have no interest in a long, boring page of you ranting about your personal obsession with hating SSRIs and how "eeeeevil" they are, since not one thing you said had ****-all to do with the conversation between you and me.

All you and I are talking about is the quote from your post which I pasted above. SSRI antidepressants are NOT intended to deaden normal emotions or block empathy. You either misspoke, or you lied. Anything else you have to say which is extraneous to that one quote is just going to be ignored, and the conversation will be focused back to the actual conversation you and I are having.

Get off your hobby horse and FOCUS.

 

[LuckyDuck]

Work on getting a laws to randomly check troubled teens for mental stability.

The words teenager and mental stability don't necessarily go hand-in-hand.

 

[Pop23]

It actually is the effect they are supposed to do. They block the emotion that causes the depression. Empathy is one of those

Wrong. Hyper-emotional, short on logic and reason, and wrong.

SSRI anti-depressants are not intended in any way to cause flattened affect of normal emotional response. They are intended to remove the UNNATURAL depression that causes that flattened affect. If you are experiencing flattened affect, lack of empathy, or inappropriate emotions, you are having a reaction to the medication, and should report it to your doctor. Either the dose is too high, or it's a bad medication fit.

Whatever your visceral hatred of anti-depressants is, you need to get some perspective about it.

It's not just me:

Antidepressants and Violence: Problems at the Interface of Medicine and Law

In their submissions to the Committee on Safety of Medicines Expert Working Group, GlaxoSmithKline also reported that 11,491 patients entered trials comparing paroxetine with other antidepressants [5]. In this patient cohort, 44 hostile events occurred on paroxetine or other drugs, a rate of 0.38%. In the subset of trials comparing paroxetine with another SSRI, there were 16 hostile events in 2,418 patients (0.66%). These SSRI comparator trials may be confounded by indication; the SSRI comparator trials might, for instance, have included a higher proportion of patients with OCD.

Finally, in healthy volunteer studies, hostile events occurred in three of 271 (1.1%) volunteers taking paroxetine, compared with zero in 138 taking placebo [5]. Although not statistically significant, this finding is striking because hostile events are unusual in healthy volunteer trials, and this figure was higher than the rate reported in clinical populations above. GlaxoSmithKline ascribed these episodes to the fact that the volunteers were confined, although this applied to both paroxetine and placebo volunteers. One other healthy volunteer study has reported aggressive behaviour in one volunteer taking sertraline [8].

Then:

Mechanisms of antidepressant-induced violence
A link between antidepressant use and violence needs a plausible clinical mechanism through which such effects might be realised. There are comparable data on increased rates of suicidal events on active treatment compared to placebo [16,17]. In the case of suicide, several explanations have been offered for the linkage. It is argued that alleviating the motor retardation of depression, the condition being treated, might enable suicides to happen, but this cannot explain the appearance of suicidality in healthy volunteers. Mechanisms linking antidepressant treatment, rather than the condition, to adverse behavioural outcomes include akathisia, emotional disinhibition, emotional blunting, and manic or psychotic reactions to treatment. There is good evidence that antidepressant treatment can induce problems such as these and a prima facie case that akathisia, emotional blunting, and manic or psychotic reactions might lead to violence.

What am I missing when so many of the shooters were on, or recently came off, these drugs.

Thanks for a VERY long post addressing a point that had **** and all to do with what I posted.

Returning to the ACTUAL topic of my post - which was NOT whether or not antidepressants can cause an adverse violent reaction in some people - do you have anything to prove that the INTENDED effect of SSRI medication is to blunt empathy and normal emotional response?

First, I don't think I said what the INTENDED effect of SSRI medication was, what I stated was WHAT THEY DO as it applies to those that have accomplished MASS SCHOOL SHOOTINGS.

Yeah, actually, you DID say that was the intended effect. Here's your quote:

"It actually is the effect they are supposed to do. They block the emotion that causes the depression. Empathy is one of those"

So either you're lying, or you have a memory like a chunk of Swiss cheese. Which would you prefer I believe?

I have no interest in a long, boring page of you ranting about your personal obsession with hating SSRIs and how "eeeeevil" they are, since not one thing you said had ****-all to do with the conversation between you and me.

All you and I are talking about is the quote from your post which I pasted above. SSRI antidepressants are NOT intended to deaden normal emotions or block empathy. You either misspoke, or you lied. Anything else you have to say which is extraneous to that one quote is just going to be ignored, and the conversation will be focused back to the actual conversation you and I are having.

Get off your hobby horse and FOCUS.

Focus? Now, what, you pushing drugs that improve focus. And speaking of rants, it's all I've seen YOU DO!

From the link: The Real Cause Behind School Shootings – Citizens Commission on Human Rights, CCHR

and, about the contributor: Lennard J. Davis - Wikipedia

Psychology Today

Contributor says Suicide and Violence Related to Psych Drugs

Lennard J. Davis bolsters this viewpoint in a piece he wrote for Psychology Today:

“It’s been well known that adolescents and young people have an increased risk of suicide when they begin to take SSRIs. But what we may forget is that suicide is an impulsive behavior that is turned against oneself. But impulses, particularly violent ones, can be turned against others.

“An accompanying effect of SSRI’s is the dulling of feelings that cause depression—and one of the main feelings in this line is empathy. If empathy is dulled and violent impulses increase when young people are on SSRI’s, then certainly that is a recipe for causing harm to others.

Davis seems to realize these drugs are dangerous as he then states, “…we also have to entertain the idea that those drugs may have directly or indirectly contributed to the violence that resulted…After all, drugs are drugs—with effects and side effects. We need to know more about how these drugs work before we decide that the best policy is to get as many trouble adolescents on them as possible. The physician’s motto: ‘Do no harm’ is more relevant than ever in this scenario.”

What is the intent? Unless you are the drug manufacture of these (many of their studies were not published) then you have no idea what what that intention is as well.

But that's OK, you obviously are more concerned that these drugs are left on the market, even though (and if you read the links), you understand that they appear 75% effective, and many within the 25% that they were not effective IT ACTUALLY MADE THEM WORSE and that many of the 75% actually had faster positive outcomes using different courses of treatment, and some having NO TREATMENT.

But they are great, right:



Did you get those ages: 15 years old, 18 years old, 15 years old, 15 years old, 17 years old.

A 15 year old on TWO DIFFERENT ANTIDEPRESSANTS AT ONCE!. Two others "on a mix of antidepressants"

Fascinating was the Doctor who said that, until the advent of these drugs he saw very little violence in depressed individuals. WOW! And school shootings? Almost zero!

Nearly every, and maybe all, it's hard to say in a few, of the shooters in these school shootings had one thing in common:

The were either on, on experiencing withdrawal from one or more SSRI prescription drug.

11% of the population are being treated for depression, and out of the small demographic group, who, before the introduction of this class of drug rarely had violent outburst, are responsible for 90+% of all school shootings?

If that doesn't cause you pause, I can't think of anything that will.

 

[Pop23]

Work on getting a laws to randomly check troubled teens for mental stability.

The words teenager and mental stability don't necessarily go hand-in-hand.

Especially when they want you to buy them a car!

 

[LuckyDuck]

Now there is renewed talk of lowering the age of voting to 16. In light of the Parkland shooting, this is because leaders in the Democrat party, know that 16 year olds will vote solely on "emotion," instead of sitting down and reviewing facts, figures and Constitutional laws and the meanings behind them.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Wrong. Hyper-emotional, short on logic and reason, and wrong.

SSRI anti-depressants are not intended in any way to cause flattened affect of normal emotional response. They are intended to remove the UNNATURAL depression that causes that flattened affect. If you are experiencing flattened affect, lack of empathy, or inappropriate emotions, you are having a reaction to the medication, and should report it to your doctor. Either the dose is too high, or it's a bad medication fit.

Whatever your visceral hatred of anti-depressants is, you need to get some perspective about it.

It's not just me:

Antidepressants and Violence: Problems at the Interface of Medicine and Law

In their submissions to the Committee on Safety of Medicines Expert Working Group, GlaxoSmithKline also reported that 11,491 patients entered trials comparing paroxetine with other antidepressants [5]. In this patient cohort, 44 hostile events occurred on paroxetine or other drugs, a rate of 0.38%. In the subset of trials comparing paroxetine with another SSRI, there were 16 hostile events in 2,418 patients (0.66%). These SSRI comparator trials may be confounded by indication; the SSRI comparator trials might, for instance, have included a higher proportion of patients with OCD.

Finally, in healthy volunteer studies, hostile events occurred in three of 271 (1.1%) volunteers taking paroxetine, compared with zero in 138 taking placebo [5]. Although not statistically significant, this finding is striking because hostile events are unusual in healthy volunteer trials, and this figure was higher than the rate reported in clinical populations above. GlaxoSmithKline ascribed these episodes to the fact that the volunteers were confined, although this applied to both paroxetine and placebo volunteers. One other healthy volunteer study has reported aggressive behaviour in one volunteer taking sertraline [8].

Then:

Mechanisms of antidepressant-induced violence
A link between antidepressant use and violence needs a plausible clinical mechanism through which such effects might be realised. There are comparable data on increased rates of suicidal events on active treatment compared to placebo [16,17]. In the case of suicide, several explanations have been offered for the linkage. It is argued that alleviating the motor retardation of depression, the condition being treated, might enable suicides to happen, but this cannot explain the appearance of suicidality in healthy volunteers. Mechanisms linking antidepressant treatment, rather than the condition, to adverse behavioural outcomes include akathisia, emotional disinhibition, emotional blunting, and manic or psychotic reactions to treatment. There is good evidence that antidepressant treatment can induce problems such as these and a prima facie case that akathisia, emotional blunting, and manic or psychotic reactions might lead to violence.

What am I missing when so many of the shooters were on, or recently came off, these drugs.

Thanks for a VERY long post addressing a point that had **** and all to do with what I posted.

Returning to the ACTUAL topic of my post - which was NOT whether or not antidepressants can cause an adverse violent reaction in some people - do you have anything to prove that the INTENDED effect of SSRI medication is to blunt empathy and normal emotional response?

First, I don't think I said what the INTENDED effect of SSRI medication was, what I stated was WHAT THEY DO as it applies to those that have accomplished MASS SCHOOL SHOOTINGS.

Yeah, actually, you DID say that was the intended effect. Here's your quote:

"It actually is the effect they are supposed to do. They block the emotion that causes the depression. Empathy is one of those"

So either you're lying, or you have a memory like a chunk of Swiss cheese. Which would you prefer I believe?

I have no interest in a long, boring page of you ranting about your personal obsession with hating SSRIs and how "eeeeevil" they are, since not one thing you said had ****-all to do with the conversation between you and me.

All you and I are talking about is the quote from your post which I pasted above. SSRI antidepressants are NOT intended to deaden normal emotions or block empathy. You either misspoke, or you lied. Anything else you have to say which is extraneous to that one quote is just going to be ignored, and the conversation will be focused back to the actual conversation you and I are having.

Get off your hobby horse and FOCUS.

Focus? Now, what, you pushing drugs that improve focus. And speaking of rants, it's all I've seen YOU DO!

From the link: The Real Cause Behind School Shootings – Citizens Commission on Human Rights, CCHR

and, about the contributor: Lennard J. Davis - Wikipedia

Psychology Today

Contributor says Suicide and Violence Related to Psych Drugs

Lennard J. Davis bolsters this viewpoint in a piece he wrote for Psychology Today:

“It’s been well known that adolescents and young people have an increased risk of suicide when they begin to take SSRIs. But what we may forget is that suicide is an impulsive behavior that is turned against oneself. But impulses, particularly violent ones, can be turned against others.

“An accompanying effect of SSRI’s is the dulling of feelings that cause depression—and one of the main feelings in this line is empathy. If empathy is dulled and violent impulses increase when young people are on SSRI’s, then certainly that is a recipe for causing harm to others.

Davis seems to realize these drugs are dangerous as he then states, “…we also have to entertain the idea that those drugs may have directly or indirectly contributed to the violence that resulted…After all, drugs are drugs—with effects and side effects. We need to know more about how these drugs work before we decide that the best policy is to get as many trouble adolescents on them as possible. The physician’s motto: ‘Do no harm’ is more relevant than ever in this scenario.”

What is the intent? Unless you are the drug manufacture of these (many of their studies were not published) then you have no idea what what that intention is as well.

But that's OK, you obviously are more concerned that these drugs are left on the market, even though (and if you read the links), you understand that they appear 75% effective, and many within the 25% that they were not effective IT ACTUALLY MADE THEM WORSE and that many of the 75% actually had faster positive outcomes using different courses of treatment, and some having NO TREATMENT.

But they are great, right:



Did you get those ages: 15 years old, 18 years old, 15 years old, 15 years old, 17 years old.

A 15 year old on TWO DIFFERENT ANTIDEPRESSANTS AT ONCE!. Two others "on a mix of antidepressants"

Fascinating was the Doctor who said that, until the advent of these drugs he saw very little violence in depressed individuals. WOW! And school shootings? Almost zero!

Nearly every, and maybe all, it's hard to say in a few, of the shooters in these school shootings had one thing in common:

The were either on, on experiencing withdrawal from one or more SSRI prescription drug.

11% of the population are being treated for depression, and out of the small demographic group, who, before the introduction of this class of drug rarely had violent outburst, are responsible for 90+% of all school shootings?

If that doesn't cause you pause, I can't think of anything that will.

Whatever your dementia, we're done here. Enjoy your obsessions.

 

[Pop23]

It's not just me:

Antidepressants and Violence: Problems at the Interface of Medicine and Law

Then:

What am I missing when so many of the shooters were on, or recently came off, these drugs.

Thanks for a VERY long post addressing a point that had **** and all to do with what I posted.

Returning to the ACTUAL topic of my post - which was NOT whether or not antidepressants can cause an adverse violent reaction in some people - do you have anything to prove that the INTENDED effect of SSRI medication is to blunt empathy and normal emotional response?

First, I don't think I said what the INTENDED effect of SSRI medication was, what I stated was WHAT THEY DO as it applies to those that have accomplished MASS SCHOOL SHOOTINGS.

Yeah, actually, you DID say that was the intended effect. Here's your quote:

"It actually is the effect they are supposed to do. They block the emotion that causes the depression. Empathy is one of those"

So either you're lying, or you have a memory like a chunk of Swiss cheese. Which would you prefer I believe?

I have no interest in a long, boring page of you ranting about your personal obsession with hating SSRIs and how "eeeeevil" they are, since not one thing you said had ****-all to do with the conversation between you and me.

All you and I are talking about is the quote from your post which I pasted above. SSRI antidepressants are NOT intended to deaden normal emotions or block empathy. You either misspoke, or you lied. Anything else you have to say which is extraneous to that one quote is just going to be ignored, and the conversation will be focused back to the actual conversation you and I are having.

Get off your hobby horse and FOCUS.

Focus? Now, what, you pushing drugs that improve focus. And speaking of rants, it's all I've seen YOU DO!

From the link: The Real Cause Behind School Shootings – Citizens Commission on Human Rights, CCHR

and, about the contributor: Lennard J. Davis - Wikipedia

Psychology Today

Contributor says Suicide and Violence Related to Psych Drugs

Lennard J. Davis bolsters this viewpoint in a piece he wrote for Psychology Today:

“It’s been well known that adolescents and young people have an increased risk of suicide when they begin to take SSRIs. But what we may forget is that suicide is an impulsive behavior that is turned against oneself. But impulses, particularly violent ones, can be turned against others.

“An accompanying effect of SSRI’s is the dulling of feelings that cause depression—and one of the main feelings in this line is empathy. If empathy is dulled and violent impulses increase when young people are on SSRI’s, then certainly that is a recipe for causing harm to others.

Davis seems to realize these drugs are dangerous as he then states, “…we also have to entertain the idea that those drugs may have directly or indirectly contributed to the violence that resulted…After all, drugs are drugs—with effects and side effects. We need to know more about how these drugs work before we decide that the best policy is to get as many trouble adolescents on them as possible. The physician’s motto: ‘Do no harm’ is more relevant than ever in this scenario.”

What is the intent? Unless you are the drug manufacture of these (many of their studies were not published) then you have no idea what what that intention is as well.

But that's OK, you obviously are more concerned that these drugs are left on the market, even though (and if you read the links), you understand that they appear 75% effective, and many within the 25% that they were not effective IT ACTUALLY MADE THEM WORSE and that many of the 75% actually had faster positive outcomes using different courses of treatment, and some having NO TREATMENT.

But they are great, right:



Did you get those ages: 15 years old, 18 years old, 15 years old, 15 years old, 17 years old.

A 15 year old on TWO DIFFERENT ANTIDEPRESSANTS AT ONCE!. Two others "on a mix of antidepressants"

Fascinating was the Doctor who said that, until the advent of these drugs he saw very little violence in depressed individuals. WOW! And school shootings? Almost zero!

Nearly every, and maybe all, it's hard to say in a few, of the shooters in these school shootings had one thing in common:

The were either on, on experiencing withdrawal from one or more SSRI prescription drug.

11% of the population are being treated for depression, and out of the small demographic group, who, before the introduction of this class of drug rarely had violent outburst, are responsible for 90+% of all school shootings?

If that doesn't cause you pause, I can't think of anything that will.

Whatever your dementia, we're done here. Enjoy your obsessions.

Go take a pill