End of the Two-State Solution

[Marc39]

There is no ethnic group known as Americans either. Is there a point here?

There is a sovereign country known as America. Those citizens of America are Americans.

There is no country known as Palestine. Indeed, Israel encompasses most of the geographic territory known as Palestine, so, technically, Jews are Palestinians.

However, even Arabs know Palestinians are a fiction...
Arab commentator Azmi Bishara
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3n5-yG-6dU[/ame]

“Well, I dont think there is a Palestinian nation at all. I think there is an Arab nation. I always thought so and I did not change my mind. I do not think there is a Palestinian nation, I think its a colonialist invention - Palestinian nation. When were there any Palestinians? Where did it come from? I think there is an Arab nation. I never turned to be a Palestinian nationalist, despite of my decisive struggle against the occupation. I think that until the end of the 19th century, Palestine was the south of Greater Syria.

 

[P F Tinmore]

There is no ethnic group known as Americans either. Is there a point here?

There is a sovereign country known as America. Those citizens of America are Americans.

There is no country known as Palestine. Indeed, Israel encompasses most of the geographic territory known as Palestine, so, technically, Jews are Palestinians.

However, even Arabs know Palestinians are a fiction...
Arab commentator Azmi Bishara
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3n5-yG-6dU[/ame]

“Well, I dont think there is a Palestinian nation at all. I think there is an Arab nation. I always thought so and I did not change my mind. I do not think there is a Palestinian nation, I think its a colonialist invention - Palestinian nation. When were there any Palestinians? Where did it come from? I think there is an Arab nation. I never turned to be a Palestinian nationalist, despite of my decisive struggle against the occupation. I think that until the end of the 19th century, Palestine was the south of Greater Syria.

There were many people living there, most for centuries. They were the people of the place and they called that place "my country." You can talk about names, or whether others saw them as country and all that but that is just obfuscation.

After over 60 years of abuse they still call it their country. It is their country. They do not have to let outsiders confuse the issue.

 

[Marc39]

There were many people living there, most for centuries. They were the people of the place and they called that place "my country." You can talk about names, or whether others saw them as country and all that but that is just obfuscation.

Wrong. You know less than nothing.

Palestine was considered part of Syria during 400 years of Ottoman rule. Palestine was, in fact, governed by Damascus.

When France and Great Britain were dividing up the region after World War I, France lobbied for Palestine to be part of their Syrian Mandate and, in fact, when Syria had a brief moment of independence post-WWI, the Syrian National Congress passed resolutions proclaiming the entire area as part of Greater Syria.

After over 60 years of abuse they still call it their country. It is their country. They do not have to let outsiders confuse the issue.

Wrong, again.

Saudi Arabia is the country of the Arabs.

Palestine is the Jewish homeland.

The US Congress acknowledged the historical connection between Palestine and the Jews in a rare joint House resolution...

The United States Congressional Record
1922 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
National Home for
THE JEWISH PEOPLE JUNE 30, 1922
HOUSE RESOLUTION 360 - UNANIMOUSLY ADOPTED

Palestine of today, the land we now know as Palestine, was peopled by the Jews from the dawn of history until the Roman era. It is the ancestral homeland of the Jewish people. They were driven from it by force by the relentless Roman military machine and for centuries prevented from returning. At different periods various alien people succeeded them but the Jewish race had left an indelible impress upon the land.

Today it is a Jewish country. Every name, every landmark, every monument and every trace of whatever civilization remaining there is still Jewish. And it has ever since remained a hope, a longing, as expressed in their prayers for these nearly 2,000 years. No other people has ever claimed Palestine as their national home. No other people has ever shown an aptitude or indicated a genuine desire to make it their homeland. The land has been ruled by foreigners. Only since the beginning of the modern Zionist effort may it be said that a creative, cultural, and economic force has entered Palestine. The Jewish Nation was forced from its natural home. It did not go because it wanted to.

A perusal of Jewish history, a reading of Josephus, will convince the most skeptical that the grandest fight that was ever put up against an enemy was put up by the Jew. He never thought of leaving Palestine. But he was driven out. But did he, when driven out, give up his hope of getting back? Jewish history and Jewish literature give the answer to the question. The Jew even has a fast day devoted to the day of destruction of the Jewish homeland.

Never throughout history did they give up hope of returning there. I am told that 90 per cent of the Jews today are praying for the return of the Jewish people to its own home. The best minds among them believe in the necessity of reestablishing their Jewish land. To my mind there is something prophetic in the fact that during the ages no other nation has taken over Palestine and held it in the sense of a homeland; and there is something providential in the fact that for 1,800 years it has remained in desolation as if waiting for the return of the people.

You know less than nothing.

 

[al Haq]

There is no ethnic group known as Americans either. Is there a point here?

There is a sovereign country known as America. Those citizens of America are Americans.

There is no country known as Palestine. Indeed, Israel encompasses most of the geographic territory known as Palestine, so, technically, Jews are Palestinians.

However, even Arabs know Palestinians are a fiction...
Arab commentator Azmi Bishara

“Well, I dont think there is a Palestinian nation at all. I think there is an Arab nation. I always thought so and I did not change my mind. I do not think there is a Palestinian nation, I think its a colonialist invention - Palestinian nation. When were there any Palestinians? Where did it come from? I think there is an Arab nation. I never turned to be a Palestinian nationalist, despite of my decisive struggle against the occupation. I think that until the end of the 19th century, Palestine was the south of Greater Syria.

This was an interesting choice to post to support your premise. It seems you have not taken the time to find out who Bishara actually is, and what his politics actually are.

Bishara is an Arab Christian Israeli citizen, born in Nazareth. He is one of the founders and leader of the NDA-Balad political party (an Israeli Arab party.) He was elected to Knesset, and ran for Prime Minister before withdrawing from the race shortly before the election.

Israel charged Bishara with various criminal offenses after he visited Syria and Lebanon several times and expressed his support for Hezbollah. He and his NDA-Balad party have been accused by the Israeli attorney general of seeking to "destroy the Jewish character of the state and supported the armed struggle against it.”

He has since resigned from Knesset and is currently living abroad.

As for this disembodied clip, taken out of context:

Bishara is a pan-Arabist. This clip is from a speech he gave expressing his support for a pan-Arabic state based on the historical model of Greater Syria, which included Syria, Palestine, Lebanon, and Jordan.

In fact, Bishara has referred to “Palestine” and “Palestinians” many times, and has written extensively on his opposition to the Israeli occupation of Palestinian land (as well as Lebanese and Syrian territory) and been an outspoken critic of the Israeli government’s oppression of the Palestinian people.

But you could see all this for yourself, if you would only read some of his published writings instead of taking carefully cherry-picked snippets off dubious websites which don't tell you the full story.

I can't post links yet (how annoying!) but here are the titles of just a few articles written by Bishara for al-Ahram Weekly, the English-language edition of Egypt’s largest newspaper. They are teeming with the words "Palestine" and "Palestinians":

Israeli games again

Strong in spite of themselves

Ignorant thieves

You can find them easily with a Google search of his name and the title of the article.

 

[P F Tinmore]

There were many people living there, most for centuries. They were the people of the place and they called that place "my country." You can talk about names, or whether others saw them as country and all that but that is just obfuscation.

Wrong. You know less than nothing.

Palestine was considered part of Syria during 400 years of Ottoman rule. Palestine was, in fact, governed by Damascus.

When France and Great Britain were dividing up the region after World War I, France lobbied for Palestine to be part of their Syrian Mandate and, in fact, when Syria had a brief moment of independence post-WWI, the Syrian National Congress passed resolutions proclaiming the entire area as part of Greater Syria.

After over 60 years of abuse they still call it their country. It is their country. They do not have to let outsiders confuse the issue.

Wrong, again.

Saudi Arabia is the country of the Arabs.

Palestine is the Jewish homeland.

The US Congress acknowledged the historical connection between Palestine and the Jews in a rare joint House resolution...

The United States Congressional Record
1922 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
National Home for
THE JEWISH PEOPLE JUNE 30, 1922
HOUSE RESOLUTION 360 - UNANIMOUSLY ADOPTED

Palestine of today, the land we now know as Palestine, was peopled by the Jews from the dawn of history until the Roman era. It is the ancestral homeland of the Jewish people. They were driven from it by force by the relentless Roman military machine and for centuries prevented from returning. At different periods various alien people succeeded them but the Jewish race had left an indelible impress upon the land.

Today it is a Jewish country. Every name, every landmark, every monument and every trace of whatever civilization remaining there is still Jewish. And it has ever since remained a hope, a longing, as expressed in their prayers for these nearly 2,000 years. No other people has ever claimed Palestine as their national home. No other people has ever shown an aptitude or indicated a genuine desire to make it their homeland. The land has been ruled by foreigners. Only since the beginning of the modern Zionist effort may it be said that a creative, cultural, and economic force has entered Palestine. The Jewish Nation was forced from its natural home. It did not go because it wanted to.

A perusal of Jewish history, a reading of Josephus, will convince the most skeptical that the grandest fight that was ever put up against an enemy was put up by the Jew. He never thought of leaving Palestine. But he was driven out. But did he, when driven out, give up his hope of getting back? Jewish history and Jewish literature give the answer to the question. The Jew even has a fast day devoted to the day of destruction of the Jewish homeland.

Never throughout history did they give up hope of returning there. I am told that 90 per cent of the Jews today are praying for the return of the Jewish people to its own home. The best minds among them believe in the necessity of reestablishing their Jewish land. To my mind there is something prophetic in the fact that during the ages no other nation has taken over Palestine and held it in the sense of a homeland; and there is something providential in the fact that for 1,800 years it has remained in desolation as if waiting for the return of the people.

You know less than nothing.

"But did he, when driven out, give up his hope of getting back?"

Then why is it that Most Israelis have no ancestral connection to Palestine?

 

[P F Tinmore]

There is no ethnic group known as Americans either. Is there a point here?

There is a sovereign country known as America. Those citizens of America are Americans.

There is no country known as Palestine. Indeed, Israel encompasses most of the geographic territory known as Palestine, so, technically, Jews are Palestinians.

However, even Arabs know Palestinians are a fiction...
Arab commentator Azmi Bishara

“Well, I dont think there is a Palestinian nation at all. I think there is an Arab nation. I always thought so and I did not change my mind. I do not think there is a Palestinian nation, I think its a colonialist invention - Palestinian nation. When were there any Palestinians? Where did it come from? I think there is an Arab nation. I never turned to be a Palestinian nationalist, despite of my decisive struggle against the occupation. I think that until the end of the 19th century, Palestine was the south of Greater Syria.

This was an interesting choice to post to support your premise. It seems you have not taken the time to find out who Bishara actually is, and what his politics actually are.

Bishara is an Arab Christian Israeli citizen, born in Nazareth. He is one of the founders and leader of the NDA-Balad political party (an Israeli Arab party.) He was elected to Knesset, and ran for Prime Minister before withdrawing from the race shortly before the election.

Israel charged Bishara with various criminal offenses after he visited Syria and Lebanon several times and expressed his support for Hezbollah. He and his NDA-Balad party have been accused by the Israeli attorney general of seeking to "destroy the Jewish character of the state and supported the armed struggle against it.”

He has since resigned from Knesset and is currently living abroad.

As for this disembodied clip, taken out of context:

Bishara is a pan-Arabist. This clip is from a speech he gave expressing his support for a pan-Arabic state based on the historical model of Greater Syria, which included Syria, Palestine, Lebanon, and Jordan.

In fact, Bishara has referred to “Palestine” and “Palestinians” many times, and has written extensively on his opposition to the Israeli occupation of Palestinian land (as well as Lebanese and Syrian territory) and been an outspoken critic of the Israeli government’s oppression of the Palestinian people.

But you could see all this for yourself, if you would only read some of his published writings instead of taking carefully cherry-picked snippets off dubious websites which don't tell you the full story.

I can't post links yet (how annoying!) but here are the titles of just a few articles written by Bishara for al-Ahram Weekly, the English-language edition of Egypt’s largest newspaper. They are teeming with the words "Palestine" and "Palestinians":

Israeli games again

Strong in spite of themselves

Ignorant thieves

You can find them easily with a Google search of his name and the title of the article.

Great post. Thanks.

 

[Marc39]

Then why is it that Most Israelis have no ancestral connection to Palestine?

Why is that you have no knowledge of the subject matter, yet, you continue to post?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Then why is it that Most Israelis have no ancestral connection to Palestine?

Why is that you have no knowledge of the subject matter, yet, you continue to post?

OK, you are the informed one. What percentage of Israelis can trace their ancestors back to the holy land?

 

[Marc39]

OK, you are the informed one. What percentage of Israelis can trace their ancestors back to the holy land?

Irrelevant. Israel and surrounding Palestine is the ancestral homeland to every Jew in the world.

Muslims and Arabs have an ancestral connection with Arabia.

 

[al Haq]

The US Congress acknowledged the historical connection between Palestine and the Jews in a rare joint House resolution...

The United States Congressional Record
1922 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
National Home for
THE JEWISH PEOPLE JUNE 30, 1922
HOUSE RESOLUTION 360 - UNANIMOUSLY ADOPTED

Palestine of today, the land we now know as Palestine, was peopled by the Jews from the dawn of history until the Roman era. It is the ancestral homeland of the Jewish people. They were driven from it by force by the relentless Roman military machine and for centuries prevented from returning. At different periods various alien people succeeded them but the Jewish race had left an indelible impress upon the land.

Today it is a Jewish country. Every name, every landmark, every monument and every trace of whatever civilization remaining there is still Jewish. And it has ever since remained a hope, a longing, as expressed in their prayers for these nearly 2,000 years. No other people has ever claimed Palestine as their national home. No other people has ever shown an aptitude or indicated a genuine desire to make it their homeland. The land has been ruled by foreigners. Only since the beginning of the modern Zionist effort may it be said that a creative, cultural, and economic force has entered Palestine. The Jewish Nation was forced from its natural home. It did not go because it wanted to.

A perusal of Jewish history, a reading of Josephus, will convince the most skeptical that the grandest fight that was ever put up against an enemy was put up by the Jew. He never thought of leaving Palestine. But he was driven out. But did he, when driven out, give up his hope of getting back? Jewish history and Jewish literature give the answer to the question. The Jew even has a fast day devoted to the day of destruction of the Jewish homeland.

Never throughout history did they give up hope of returning there. I am told that 90 per cent of the Jews today are praying for the return of the Jewish people to its own home. The best minds among them believe in the necessity of reestablishing their Jewish land. To my mind there is something prophetic in the fact that during the ages no other nation has taken over Palestine and held it in the sense of a homeland; and there is something providential in the fact that for 1,800 years it has remained in desolation as if waiting for the return of the people.

Ignoring its fanciful departures from the historical record (even from the Hebrew scriptures) for now, this appears on the surface to be something submitted by a pro-Zionist U.S. congressman, attempting to push support for the Balfour proposal of several years earlier.

However, I can find no source for it that does not track back to pro-Zionist websites (or individual internet posters who give no source.) The Library of Congress does not show any matches for it.

 

[Marc39]

The US Congress acknowledged the historical connection between Palestine and the Jews in a rare joint House resolution...

The United States Congressional Record
1922 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
National Home for
THE JEWISH PEOPLE JUNE 30, 1922
HOUSE RESOLUTION 360 - UNANIMOUSLY ADOPTED

Palestine of today, the land we now know as Palestine, was peopled by the Jews from the dawn of history until the Roman era. It is the ancestral homeland of the Jewish people. They were driven from it by force by the relentless Roman military machine and for centuries prevented from returning. At different periods various alien people succeeded them but the Jewish race had left an indelible impress upon the land.

Today it is a Jewish country. Every name, every landmark, every monument and every trace of whatever civilization remaining there is still Jewish. And it has ever since remained a hope, a longing, as expressed in their prayers for these nearly 2,000 years. No other people has ever claimed Palestine as their national home. No other people has ever shown an aptitude or indicated a genuine desire to make it their homeland. The land has been ruled by foreigners. Only since the beginning of the modern Zionist effort may it be said that a creative, cultural, and economic force has entered Palestine. The Jewish Nation was forced from its natural home. It did not go because it wanted to.

A perusal of Jewish history, a reading of Josephus, will convince the most skeptical that the grandest fight that was ever put up against an enemy was put up by the Jew. He never thought of leaving Palestine. But he was driven out. But did he, when driven out, give up his hope of getting back? Jewish history and Jewish literature give the answer to the question. The Jew even has a fast day devoted to the day of destruction of the Jewish homeland.

Never throughout history did they give up hope of returning there. I am told that 90 per cent of the Jews today are praying for the return of the Jewish people to its own home. The best minds among them believe in the necessity of reestablishing their Jewish land. To my mind there is something prophetic in the fact that during the ages no other nation has taken over Palestine and held it in the sense of a homeland; and there is something providential in the fact that for 1,800 years it has remained in desolation as if waiting for the return of the people.

Ignoring its fanciful departures from the historical record (even from the Hebrew scriptures) for now, this appears on the surface to be something submitted by a pro-Zionist U.S. congressman, attempting to push support for the Balfour proposal of several years earlier.

However, I can find no source for it that does not track back to pro-Zionist websites (or individual internet posters who give no source.) The Library of Congress does not show any matches for it.

The US Congress was controlled by Jews in 1922, eh, dummy?

 

[al Haq]

The US Congress was controlled by Jews in 1922, eh, dummy?

I am not sure who you are addressing.

But which post made such a statement? Please cite it, as I must have missed it.

 

[Marc39]

The US Congress was controlled by Jews in 1922, eh, dummy?

I am not sure who you are addressing.

But which post made such a statement? Please cite it, as I must have missed it.

Arabs are not intelligent. This is a well-proven fact.

 

[al Haq]

Arabs are not intelligent. This is a well-proven fact.

Really?

Well, let me know when you can find a U.S. government source for your "congressional resolution."

 

[Marc39]

Well, let me know when you can find a U.S. government source for your "congressional resolution."

I found the source. The Congressional Record, you camel herder.

 

[al Haq]

Well, let me know when you can find a U.S. government source for your "congressional resolution."

I found the source. The Congressional Record, you camel herder.

Anyone can claim that anything imaginable is in the Congressional Record. But unless they can provide a link to a U.S. government source to support that claim, it is quite meaningless.

 

[al Haq]

It seems that some members here think that childish name-calling passes for actual debate.

01-17-2010 11:35 AM jillian just what we need...another jew hater.

Jillian, if you would like to discuss or respond to something I've posted in a rational way, please do. But I have not engaged in any hate speech against any people.

I am interested in what intelligent, articulate people have to say, no matter what their political persuasion.

 

[Coyote]

Wrong, again.

Saudi Arabia is the country of the Arabs.

Palestine is the Jewish homeland.

"Arabs" are a varied and diverse group of people.

According to Wikipedia:

Arabs are a panethnicity of peoples of various ancestral origins, religious backgrounds and historic identities, whose members, on an individual basis, identify as such on one or more of linguistic, cultural, political, or genealogical grounds.[11] Those self-identifing as Arab, however, rarely do so on its own. Most hold multiple identities, with a more localized prioritized ethnic identity — such as Egyptian, Lebanese, or Palestinian — in addition to further tribal, village and clan identities.

The main unifying feature of "Arabs" is not ethnicity but language.

"Palestine" is the homeland of a variety of peoples and there was considerable movement in migration and trade throughout the area. It has a very ancient history that is not exclusive to the Jewish portion of the population. In fact - according to that link, there is doubt there was even a united Israeli nation in that area due to lack of archaeological evidence. I have no idea how accurate that claim is though.

 

[Marc39]

"Arabs" are a varied and diverse group of people.

Arabs are one ethnicity. There is no difference between a Lebanese, Syrian, Jordnaian or Saudi.

Arabs are a panethnicity of peoples of various ancestral origins, religious backgrounds and historic identities, whose members, on an individual basis, identify as such on one or more of linguistic, cultural, political, or genealogical grounds.[11] Those self-identifing as Arab, however, rarely do so on its own. Most hold multiple identities, with a more localized prioritized ethnic identity — such as Egyptian, Lebanese, or Palestinian — in addition to further tribal, village and clan identities.

The main unifying feature of "Arabs" is not ethnicity but language.

"Palestine" is the homeland of a variety of peoples and there was considerable movement in migration and trade throughout the area. It has a very ancient history that is not exclusive to the Jewish portion of the population. In fact - according to that link, there is doubt there was even a united Israeli nation in that area due to lack of archaeological evidence. I have no idea how accurate that claim is though.

Sorry, Wikipedia is for dunces.

 

[jillian]

It seems that some members here think that childish name-calling passes for actual debate.

01-17-2010 11:35 AM jillian just what we need...another jew hater.

Jillian, if you would like to discuss or respond to something I've posted in a rational way, please do. But I have not engaged in any hate speech against any people.

I am interested in what intelligent, articulate people have to say, no matter what their political persuasion.

why would i do that?

and you may be interested. but i've been around here long enough to be bored by anti-semites posting anti-semitic trash from pro-terrorist sites.

i'm funny that way.