End ALL Aid to Palestinian Authority

[Mariner]

Hamas winning this election... but I have to agree with canavar that our prime value being democracy, we need to try to make this piece of democracy succeed.

After all the IRA's political "wing" has long been a recognized piece of Northern Irish politics despite its terrorist connections. Or consider the ANC, which went from terrorist organization to ruling party in South Africa.

"Once a terrorist organization, always a terrorist organization" simply isn't true. Perhaps once recognized as the leadership, Hamas will act in a mature manner and not condone or commit terrorism--unlike the PLO, which was never able (or willing) to completely stop it. Hamas has more credibility among the Palestinian people--so its likelihood of success is greater.

There's plenty of blame to go around, but the Palestinian people certainly have some legitimate gripes. A large number were pushed off the land they had farmed for centuries when Israel was created. A much larger number (750,000) were scared away by Israeli terrorists such as Ariel Sharon--whose terrorism preceded any Arab terrorism towards Israel. Surrounding Arab countries then rejected the Palestinians, seeing them as weak for having no home and for having not fought back hard enough (in their view).

Palestinians aren't terrorists--or even anti-Semitic--by nature. There was no bad feeling towards Jews in Palestine when Israel was first created; the bad feelings came later. While I don't condone their terrorism (or that of the ANC, IRA, or Reagan's "Freedom Fighters"), I can understand where their anger comes from. The only reasonable way out is for their anger to be channelled into legitimate institution-building--elections, a democracy, self-government, and a chance to return to being the intelligent, gentle people that they once were. I hope it works.

By the way, nearly all of my Jewish friends (mostly liberal physicians) would agree completely with what I have just written, although an orthodox Jewish friend told me last week, when I asked about her feelings about this, "We had a prior claim to the land. It's in the Bible." So it goes in the birthplace of three religions. If only they could have been born a little farther apart!

Mariner.

 

[Working Man]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,182842,00.html

They are now an official terrorist organization. I'd send letters to me reps in congress, but they're Dems who don't really give a shit about MY TAX MONEY GOING TO HAMAS. God damn this pisses me off! When are people gonna get their f'ing heads out of the sand?! Those poor widdle opwessed Palestinians, why don't those evil Jews just leave them alone? "Partners in peace" my ass. Isreal should reclaim what is ttheir rightful territory. Invading a soveriegn nation and having your ass handed to you does not equal an occupation. And as I'm writing this lol, there's Condi on TV spinning it away. "The Palestinian people have voted for change." There's some brilliant insight. Wow.

Some of us feel the same way about Israel receiving US tax dollars.. The most foriegn aid goes to Israel, what is left, devided by half, then take ten percent, disbursed around to 1000 other worthy countries, and you get a buck two fifty,, maybe.. That is what the Palestinians get, approximately, for US aid.. :teeth: OOpse!, a few minutes after I posted this,,, NPR quoted a mideast expert who claims that the Palestinians receive(d) about a half billion in U$$$ aid last year/this year.. I was off a few bucks. I stand corrected.. However, compared to Israel, there are states in the US that receive LESS THAN HALF of what Israel gets in US federal aid. And state aid doesn't come on the first day of the US fed fiscal year, in a lump sum, as Israel receives it.
Sometimes, we know, that the money dries up before it is sent to the states (the fifty that I am concerned with) and that is just tuff cookies for the state that gets shorted.. Try pulling that with Israel and see what happens..


That being said, what do you say we keep our nose out of it and give them a chance.. If they prove to be blood lusting thugs,,, then we can try to deal with them. If they give an honest effort to make peace with the jews, then I suggest that we contact our congress people and request that we divert MORE funds to them from the guys who live on the other side of the illegal wall???

 

[William Joyce]

It's pretty much all "money for Israel." That's because our foreign policy is heavily and frightfully controlled by Jews.

Israel is the No. 1 recipient of "foreign aid" from the U.S. It's gotten in the BILLIONS. That comes from the tax dollars of a country that supposedly separates church and state... so why fund a Jews-only ethnosate? The No. 2 recipient is Egypt. But that, you can pretty much view as a pay-off for protection of Israel... we pay them, they leave Israel alone. Probably PA payments are along those same lines... and if not, it's mushy-headed liberalism.

Either way, it sucks. We need to make the safety and security of white Christian America our first priority. Jews can take care of themselves --- they always have. They aren't our "friends," in fact, they're our true enemy: without regard to us, they have used us, duped us, put us in harm's way and sent our sons and fathers to die for their country, while making it seem all the while that this is "our" battle. Then they sic their Hollywood moguls and ACLU lawyers on us to remove Christianity from every corner to demonstrate their gratefulness.

 

[KarlMarx]

as it was explained to me ....the house and senate voted that Hamas was a terrorist organization....and by US law we can not have diplomatic relations with a terrorist organization..............so now ...... palestine does not exist

Well.... actually, we did deal with a terrorist organization... it was called the Fatah Party under the stewardship of the Late Great Slimebag, Yassir "I'm now burning in Hell" Arafat.

 

[KarlMarx]

The new government...



:ali:

Palestine will now be renaming itself "Pottsylvannia"', naming Fearless Leader to be Prime Minister and Boris and Natasha as joint directors of intelligence

 

[Gunny]

Hmmm......

Hamas is a terrorist organization. Hamas is the government. Guess they better grow up quick and rethink their strategy of using terrorism as a weapon. Any terrorism conducted by Hamas henceforth will be state-sponsored terrorism.

These are not the "days of yore" for Hamas. They are no longer the outcasts who have nothing to lose. Seems to me they have a people and a border to defend.

 

[Working Man]

Could someone who knows how to find the report, that is held in the Library of Congress, please send me the link for the document? A house member back in the late 80's sent me a copy, but I have had trouble looking it up myself.

I think anyone who wants to know what our friends in Israel are up to, should read the report. Wouldn't it be best if we all had some basis for our opinions? If we can't believe the report,,, then,,, well???????????

 

[insein]

Here's what you do. You withdraw all aid to the Palestianian Government. You tell Israel that whatever you do, we will not get in the way. Let Israel commence the carpet Bombings at their discretion. We take away the money funding this ridiculous excuses for countries and let them do as they wish. IF they attack US Embassies, US military personnel, US naval vessels, US soil, then we go and kill all of them.

Bottomline. Withdraw ALL funding with the word "Palestinian" and "Aide" in it. Let them do as they please.

 

[theim]

Just heard on the news blurb that John Thune (the guy who took out Daschle) introduced a bill that cuts off all aid to the PA if the governing party calls for the destruction of Isreal. Will try and find on net.

EDIT:

Senator Thune Introduces Resolution to Withhold U.S. Aid to Palestinian Authority

January 26th, 2006 - Washington, DC - Senator John Thune (R-SD) today introduced a Concurrent Resolution expressing the sense of Congress that no U.S. assistance should be provided to the Palestinian Authority if a ruling majority party within the Palestinian Parliament maintains a position calling for the destruction of Israel.

"It would be wrong for a single American tax dollar to go to the Palestinian Authority while a majority party within their parliament calls for the destruction of Israel," said Thune. "Israel is one of America's closest allies and peace in the Middle East is one of our top priorities."

http://thune.senate.gov/public/inde....Detail&PressRelease_id=222&Month=1&Year=2006

 

[Adam's Apple]

I wonder if the UN people think a two state solution is possible with Hamas,...

A "two state" solution is not possible unless you're thinking along the same lines as Hamas: Current land mass now known as Palestine for Hamas and the Palestinians, and current land mass now known as Israel for Hamas and the Palestinians. High priority agenda item. Only solution they will accept.

 

[Mariner]

right so far. From today's NY Times:

January 27, 2006
Bush Defends His Goal of Spreading Democracy to the Mideast

By STEVEN R. WEISMAN
WASHINGTON, Jan. 26 — The sweeping victory of Hamas in the Palestinian elections threw President Bush and his aides on the defensive on Thursday, complicating the administration's policy of trying to promote democracy as an antidote to the spread of terrorism.

Reacting uneasily to the Hamas triumph, Mr. Bush said the results spoke to the failures of President Mahmoud Abbas and the "old guard" of his Fatah faction to root out corruption and mismanagement, not to any flaws in the administration's policy of advocating democracy.

"There was a peaceful process as people went to the polls, and that's positive," Mr. Bush said. "But what's also positive is that it's a wake-up call to the leadership. Obviously people were not happy with the status quo. The people are demanding honest government. The people want services."

But without criticizing the Palestinian people for choosing leaders who advocate the destruction of Israel, a tenet at the very core of Hamas's creed, he said that the United States would never tolerate such a policy. In the same fashion, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice noted that Palestinians want a negotiated peace settlement with Israel, according to opinion polls, but she repeated that this goal remained possible only if Hamas renounced its violent ways.

Mr. Bush joined a chorus of world leaders — including the so-called quartet of principal parties in the moribund peace process — in calling on Hamas to renounce terrorism, disarm its militias and recognize the legitimacy of Israel now that it has won the elections. But his tone was less confrontational than invitational — in effect, inviting Hamas to embrace reconciliation.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/27/politics/27diplo.html?_r=1&th=&emc=th&pagewanted=print

Mariner

PS Even as a liberal and someone who supports very few of George Bush's ideas for this country, I am not against his idea that democracy might be able to precede the development of other aspects of civil society (read further in the Times link for comment on how "old guard" Republicans believe he is wrong about this).

 

[Abbey Normal]

Just heard on the news blurb that John Thune (the guy who took out Daschle) introduced a bill that cuts off all aid to the PA if the governing party calls for the destruction of Isreal. Will try and find on net.

EDIT:

http://thune.senate.gov/public/inde....Detail&PressRelease_id=222&Month=1&Year=2006

What a perfect solution. I already loved Thune for beating Daschle. Now I may have to contribute to his next campaign.

 

[Mariner]

an election, and the U.S., beacon of democracy, withdraws its support because we don't like who they elected? That's a sure way to look like hypocrites (and fools, for invading Iraq on the assumption that democracy there would be better for us than dictatorship). I don't think that's a viable option. Bush is playing this one right so far.

Mariner.

 

[insein]

an election, and the U.S., beacon of democracy, withdraws its support because we don't like who they elected? That's a sure way to look like hypocrites (and fools, for invading Iraq on the assumption that democracy there would be better for us than dictatorship). I don't think that's a viable option. Bush is playing this one right so far.

Mariner.

This isnt a matter of "Someone we don't Like". This is a matter of them electing a TERRORIST ORGANIZATION THAT HAS CLAIMED NUMEROUS BOMBINGS THAT RESULTED IN THE DEATHS OF THOUSANDS!!!!

What part of that sentence didnt you understand? This is the Taliban come to power in the non existent state of Palestine. All hope peace in between ISrael and Palestine had is now down to 0%. Hamas has been publicly stating since their conception that their primary goal is to wipe Israel from the face of the Earth. How do you "Negotiate" with that?

Besides, hitler was elected with about 80% of the vote. Many European Politicians thought as you do. Well he was elected by his people so we should ignore his violent past and potential threat to peace. Guess what that got them?

 

[Semper Fi]

You dont...

However, Hamas is now a political party. I'm a bit hyped up right now, so bear with me and kindly correct me if whatever I say rings untrue, but heres how I see it.

I see it as Hamas becoming a politcal party, and therefore should be taken seriously at first. However, the first terror attack sponsored by Hamas would mean an attack of a NATION by another NATION, and therefore a claus for war, undisputedly. So, they are rolling with the big dogs now, but one slip and it's over. And I can essentially guarantee there will be a slip before too long, within a week perhaps. Then, I'd support Israel in a war against the Palestinians.

 

[Gunny]

an election, and the U.S., beacon of democracy, withdraws its support because we don't like who they elected? That's a sure way to look like hypocrites (and fools, for invading Iraq on the assumption that democracy there would be better for us than dictatorship). I don't think that's a viable option. Bush is playing this one right so far.

Mariner.

Odd how you omit if the governing party calls for the destruction of Isreal.

If the Gov't of Palestine calls for the destruction of Israel, they are an aggressive, terrorist state and should be treated as such by ALL Nations, not just the US. Politics and bleeding-heart socialists alwasy supporting the bad guys no matter what will preclude THAT, but I damned sure don't want a government that represents me playing patty-fingers with Palestine.

They'd have never gotten a dime out of ME to begin with.

Since the government is obviously not doing things my way, guess I should just start trashing it every-other-post, huh? :blah2:

 

[Mariner]

stay in power, it will need the cooperation of Israel, since so many Palestinians work in Israel and need to travel freely back and forth. Hence, it will be difficult for them to maintain a stance of calling for Israel's destruction. At least I hope so. I'm sure there will be a lot of diplomacy going on, trying to help them find a face-saving way to take power and let go of terrorism. There will be plenty of carrots in terms of aid, and hopefully some sticks also--I'm sure the first terrorist act committed by a state of Palestine would result in massive military and political retribution.

The IRA killed thousands of people too--3500 or so. The ANC killed many. Both would have been happy if their enemy's government were destroyed.

Mariner.

 

[William Joyce]

This isnt a matter of "Someone we don't Like". This is a matter of them electing a TERRORIST ORGANIZATION THAT HAS CLAIMED NUMEROUS BOMBINGS THAT RESULTED IN THE DEATHS OF THOUSANDS!!!!

This describes the Continental Army under General Washington. So what? One man's "terror group" is another's freedom fighters. We're not going to see the situation clearly by taking the Jews' side on everything without thinking about it.

And if you do, why not renounce your American citizenship, move to Israel and fight for the IDF? Bill Clinton said he would. Maybe the Israel-first neocons can join him.

http://americandefenseleague.com/dieforil.htm

 

[rtwngAvngr]

This describes the Continental Army under General Washington. So what? One man's "terror group" is another's freedom fighters. We're not going to see the situation clearly by taking the Jews' side on everything without thinking about it.

And if you do, why not renounce your American citizenship, move to Israel and fight for the IDF? Bill Clinton said he would. Maybe the Israel-first neocons can join him.

http://americandefenseleague.com/dieforil.htm

Do you really think abandoning israel will stop the Islamofascist threat to the west? Seriously.

 

[manu1959]

Well.... actually, we did deal with a terrorist organization... it was called the Fatah Party under the stewardship of the Late Great Slimebag, Yassir "I'm now burning in Hell" Arafat.

i agree but the fatah party is not one of the listed terrorist organizations so we gave them 350 mill in aid last year