Electric vehicle subsidies under threat. MAGA

[BrokeLoser]

Yet another example of Trump's contempt for sound responsible governance and public policy.

I thought you clowns were against corporate welfare?

Don't they hate 'the wealthy' as well?
Isn't electric vehicles a 'wealthy people' thing?

 

[Seawytch]

Yet another example of Trump's contempt for sound responsible governance and public policy.

if you can't make a profitable product w/o government intervention, not my fault. stop using my tax dollars to pay for it. when it can take root and grow and become a true benefit, then it will take off and be all that it will likely one day be.

Oil companies can't seem to do that.

US fossil fuel production is subsidized to the tune of $20 billion annually

Friendly policies keep US oil and coal afloat far more than we thought

 

[edthecynic]

Second is that since coal is the main source of electrical power, they pollute far more than current gasoline or diesel cars.

Just another Russia Limbaugh LIE parroted by mindless skulls of mush!

That is irrelevant.
That pie chart is not the means of electrical production, but of all energy consumption now.
If you go with electric cars, then the red petroleum slice goes away, but it is replaced with the dark blue coal slice increasing by almost twice the size of the red slice.

Bullshit! If you limit it to energy sources for electric production only then the coal slice gets SMALLER by half!!! It is natural gas that nearly doubles. You can't save your MessiahRushie's lie.

 

[Marion Morrison]

Yet another example of Trump's contempt for sound responsible governance and public policy.

if you can't make a profitable product w/o government intervention, not my fault. stop using my tax dollars to pay for it. when it can take root and grow and become a true benefit, then it will take off and be all that it will likely one day be.

Oil companies can't seem to do that.

US fossil fuel production is subsidized to the tune of $20 billion annually

Friendly policies keep US oil and coal afloat far more than we thought

Yeah, but the government makes 3x what the oil companies do off their own product? That's not right.

Right now, around 40 cents for every gallon of fuel sold every day in America goes to the government.

Wtf? I remember it was around a dollar before.

Gas Taxes By State (Interactive Map)

 

[Cellblock2429]

It might delay widespread use of electric cars for a little while, but Trump won't be president much longer, and we can return to sanity with the inauguration of our next president. An inauguration that will no doubt be much bigger than Trump's. I wouldn't be surprised if that Nobel Prize is awarded on election night.

/——/ You do know that Chevy killed the Volt because of low demand and they had the subsidies? You do know that don’t you?

All major car manufacturers have killed lots of car models because of low demand. Chevy made improvements, and is offering the improved model for sale again

/——/ GM to kill Chevy Volt production in 2019 (Updated)

Big deal. Chevy, or someone else will take the technology and evaluate the problems and produce a better car. Edison tried lots of times before he got the light bulb right, but he knew the technology worked, and that he was close to the best answer. Hybrids are just one step toward a completely electric car. We both know it will happen, and we will reap the benefits of our investment.

Not going to happen.
Electric vehicles never made any sense.
They weight and cost twice what current gasoline or diesel cars weigh and cost.
And electricity is just as polluting because so much energy is wasted generating, transmitting, storing, retrieving, and converting the electricity back to kinetic energy.

/——/ Jay Leno had a car show about the electric cars. They were very popular in NYC and there were charging station all over the city up until WWII.

 

[Cellblock2429]

It might delay widespread use of electric cars for a little while, but Trump won't be president much longer, and we can return to sanity with the inauguration of our next president. An inauguration that will no doubt be much bigger than Trump's. I wouldn't be surprised if that Nobel Prize is awarded on election night.

/——/ You do know that Chevy killed the Volt because of low demand and they had the subsidies? You do know that don’t you?

All major car manufacturers have killed lots of car models because of low demand. Chevy made improvements, and is offering the improved model for sale again

/——/ GM to kill Chevy Volt production in 2019 (Updated)

Big deal. Chevy, or someone else will take the technology and evaluate the problems and produce a better car. Edison tried lots of times before he got the light bulb right, but he knew the technology worked, and that he was close to the best answer. Hybrids are just one step toward a completely electric car. We both know it will happen, and we will reap the benefits of our investment.

/——/ 100% correct, but you forgot to mention Edison had no Gubmint subsidies for his inventions.

 

[BULLDOG]

It might delay widespread use of electric cars for a little while, but Trump won't be president much longer, and we can return to sanity with the inauguration of our next president. An inauguration that will no doubt be much bigger than Trump's. I wouldn't be surprised if that Nobel Prize is awarded on election night.

/——/ You do know that Chevy killed the Volt because of low demand and they had the subsidies? You do know that don’t you?

All major car manufacturers have killed lots of car models because of low demand. Chevy made improvements, and is offering the improved model for sale again

/——/ GM to kill Chevy Volt production in 2019 (Updated)

Big deal. Chevy, or someone else will take the technology and evaluate the problems and produce a better car. Edison tried lots of times before he got the light bulb right, but he knew the technology worked, and that he was close to the best answer. Hybrids are just one step toward a completely electric car. We both know it will happen, and we will reap the benefits of our investment.

/——/ 100% correct, but you forgot to mention Edison had no Gubmint subsidies for his inventions.

No, but as soon as the government realized it was possible to light up the country there were massive expenditures to do that. The R.E.A. improved the lives and fortunes of countless people.

 

[Darkwind]

I would rather see working Americans with long commutes to work get the maximum subsidy regardless of how they get there. That is a higher priority.

So you are a proponent of high speed rail. Great

I am a proponent of “maximum subsidy to a working taxpayer with long commutes to his/her job. That could mean high speed rail, walking, or driving a gas guzzling truck.

I am a huge proponent of the working taxpayer moving close enough to his or her place of employment so as not to need a thing getting to work, or they can just pay for their long commute out of their own pockets.

You ought to run on that. The working and middle class would love it.

Everyone who is not brain dead would love not having to pay transportation costs for someone else's job.

 

[Cellblock2429]

/——/ You do know that Chevy killed the Volt because of low demand and they had the subsidies? You do know that don’t you?

All major car manufacturers have killed lots of car models because of low demand. Chevy made improvements, and is offering the improved model for sale again

/——/ GM to kill Chevy Volt production in 2019 (Updated)

Big deal. Chevy, or someone else will take the technology and evaluate the problems and produce a better car. Edison tried lots of times before he got the light bulb right, but he knew the technology worked, and that he was close to the best answer. Hybrids are just one step toward a completely electric car. We both know it will happen, and we will reap the benefits of our investment.

/——/ 100% correct, but you forgot to mention Edison had no Gubmint subsidies for his inventions.

No, but as soon as the government realized it was possible to light up the country there were massive expenditures to do that. The R.E.A. improved the lives and fortunes of countless people.

/——/ They did the same for nuclear power plants. What happened with that?

 

[SandSquid]

Yet another example of Trump's contempt for sound responsible governance and public policy.

if you can't make a profitable product w/o government intervention, not my fault. stop using my tax dollars to pay for it. when it can take root and grow and become a true benefit, then it will take off and be all that it will likely one day be.

Lots agree... Stop subsidizing our farming community...


What is it? 100 billion in subsidies for the big 3 auto guys in just the past 20 years? I mean we've given ICE engine vehicles 100 years to find profitability without government intervention. Time to move on and get something else going right?

No more propping up the oil and coal industries.

 

[iceberg]

Yet another example of Trump's contempt for sound responsible governance and public policy.

if you can't make a profitable product w/o government intervention, not my fault. stop using my tax dollars to pay for it. when it can take root and grow and become a true benefit, then it will take off and be all that it will likely one day be.

Lots agree... Stop subsidizing our farming community...

What is it? 100 billion in subsidies for the big 3 auto guys in just the past 20 years? I mean we've given ICE engine vehicles 100 years to find profitability without government intervention. Time to move on and get something else going right?

No more propping up the oil and coal industries.

ok. stop.

 

[Darkwind]

Yet another example of Trump's contempt for sound responsible governance and public policy.

if you can't make a profitable product w/o government intervention, not my fault. stop using my tax dollars to pay for it. when it can take root and grow and become a true benefit, then it will take off and be all that it will likely one day be.

Oil companies can't seem to do that.

US fossil fuel production is subsidized to the tune of $20 billion annually

Friendly policies keep US oil and coal afloat far more than we thought

Wow, those are not subsidies. Subsidies are a direct monetary payment from the government. <<--This is the ONLY subsidy that is being discussed.


Not putting more money in a housing program, or other government programs, or keeping more of their own money is NOT a subsidy.

 

[iceberg]

Yet another example of Trump's contempt for sound responsible governance and public policy.

if you can't make a profitable product w/o government intervention, not my fault. stop using my tax dollars to pay for it. when it can take root and grow and become a true benefit, then it will take off and be all that it will likely one day be.

Oil companies can't seem to do that.

US fossil fuel production is subsidized to the tune of $20 billion annually

Friendly policies keep US oil and coal afloat far more than we thought

Wow, those are not subsidies. Subsidies are a direct monetary payment from the government. <<--This is the ONLY subsidy that is being discussed.


Not putting more money in a housing program, or other government programs, or keeping more of their own money is NOT a subsidy.

oh. seabitch. he says things for effect, not conversation.

 

[SandSquid]

Electric vehicles are NOT a good idea at all.
First of all, since they carry around an additional ton of batteries, they use far MORE energy than a normal vehicle.
Second is that since coal is the main source of electrical power, they pollute far more than current gasoline or diesel cars.

They claim a 300 mile range, but in cold weather, at night, or when you need wipers, it can be as low as 50 miles.
And a full charge is 3 hours.
The super charge can be as short as a half hour, but risks cutting your $10k battery pack life time in half.

Electricity is not at all efficient.
While it sounds good to have 50% efficiency at the electric motors, there is about a 50% loss extracting from batteries, 50% loss charging the batteries, 50% loss in transmission, and 50% loss in generating the electricity.
Leaving a cumulative total of only 3.125% efficiency.

And you can NOT power electric vehicles by renewables.
An electric vehicle uses about 10 times the electrical power of an entire house.
And you can't change your car from photovoltaics because there is no sun when the car is home at night.

I have no problem with government subsidies for things that are worth it in the long run or just need a chance to reach economy of scale, but electric vehicles do nothing good.

That first one is a lie. They convert the power used in gas vs. that for electric cars to eMPG which is an apples to apples comparison. Electric cars win by a mile (actually about 100 miles. Model 3 gets 130 eMPG vs. a conventional vehicle averaging about 100 less. We don't use 10000 small block engines to provide power to our grid, they are MUCH less efficient than the power to our grid.

Fuel Economy of 2018 Tesla Model 3

2nd. coal is not the main source of power. Not even close. IN many states renewables are the primary source of power for the grid. Oregon for example gets 71% of the power for their electrical grid from renewable sources. The pollution is actually MUCH less.

3. Yes, Tesla's new V3 supercharger they are getting out will increase charging output to 1000 miles an hour. So that works out to 18 minutes for 300 miles. Now granted 90% of driving is not road trips, so instead of that weekly 20 minute gas trip, you have zero hours of waiting away from home to fuel your car.

4. 11 cents per kWh. Avg electric vehicle costs 34 kWh per 100 miles. 15000 miles in a year of driving. Thats 3.74 cents per mile, or 561 dollars a year. That means your home electrical bill is $4.68 a month. DOUBT.



Did you just literally make random stuff up and pretend it's true? Ok I've got a few more to add for your claims to make sure we get them all down:

Electric cars use baby seal eyes for headlights.

Electric cars have been proven to be the reason babies don't get to go to heaven.

Electric cars use mind control to make us all think like George Soros.

An electric car convinced my wife to cheat with it.

To run an electric car for 15 minutes it takes two full scale coal plants 17 days of run time to create that power.

The batteries from electric cars are fed to white Rhinos and the reason for their extinction.

Electric cars are forcing McDonalds to bring back the old non-biodegradable containers.

 

[Seawytch]

Yet another example of Trump's contempt for sound responsible governance and public policy.

if you can't make a profitable product w/o government intervention, not my fault. stop using my tax dollars to pay for it. when it can take root and grow and become a true benefit, then it will take off and be all that it will likely one day be.

Oil companies can't seem to do that.

US fossil fuel production is subsidized to the tune of $20 billion annually

Friendly policies keep US oil and coal afloat far more than we thought

Wow, those are not subsidies. Subsidies are a direct monetary payment from the government. <<--This is the ONLY subsidy that is being discussed.


Not putting more money in a housing program, or other government programs, or keeping more of their own money is NOT a subsidy.

oh. seabitch. he says things for effect, not conversation.

Wow, the irony in your post could choke a horse. I responded with facts about oil and coal subsidies and all you come back with is "seabitch", a comment only for "effect" and certainly not for conversation.

 

[Seawytch]

Yet another example of Trump's contempt for sound responsible governance and public policy.

if you can't make a profitable product w/o government intervention, not my fault. stop using my tax dollars to pay for it. when it can take root and grow and become a true benefit, then it will take off and be all that it will likely one day be.

Oil companies can't seem to do that.

US fossil fuel production is subsidized to the tune of $20 billion annually

Friendly policies keep US oil and coal afloat far more than we thought

Wow, those are not subsidies. Subsidies are a direct monetary payment from the government. <<--This is the ONLY subsidy that is being discussed.


Not putting more money in a housing program, or other government programs, or keeping more of their own money is NOT a subsidy.

It's exactly like the "subsidy" for electric cars the idiot Trump wants to end.

 

[SandSquid]

Yet another example of Trump's contempt for sound responsible governance and public policy.

if you can't make a profitable product w/o government intervention, not my fault. stop using my tax dollars to pay for it. when it can take root and grow and become a true benefit, then it will take off and be all that it will likely one day be.

Oil companies can't seem to do that.

US fossil fuel production is subsidized to the tune of $20 billion annually

Friendly policies keep US oil and coal afloat far more than we thought

Wow, those are not subsidies. Subsidies are a direct monetary payment from the government. <<--This is the ONLY subsidy that is being discussed.


Not putting more money in a housing program, or other government programs, or keeping more of their own money is NOT a subsidy.

Wait... So a subsidy is taking money from the tax income of the people to give to a company.

But when you tell the company they don't have to pay taxes, instead relying on the people to pay your share to provide for the government that's not a subsidy.


That's like saying "I didn't buy those drugs from that drug dealer, he owed me 50 bucks so I cancelled that instead of giving him 50 bucks then him giving it back for what he already owed me" Yeah you are still going to jail for buying drugs.


Luckily for us we have a definition of subsidy in the business world. . Economic benefit (such as a tax allowance or duty rebate) or financial aid (such as a cash grant or soft loan) provided by a government to (1) support a desirable activity (such as exports), (2) keep prices of staples low, (3) maintain the income of the producers of critical or strategic products, (4) maintain employment levels, or (5) induce investment to reduce unemployment. The basic characteristic of all subsidies is to reduce the market price of an item below its cost of production. Also called subvention.



So yes that is a subsidy. If you are saying that you want a new definition of subsidy... Sure. Lets say a subsidy is a small brown animal that hibernates in tree logs through summer. Got a new definition now. And no, I haven't seen one company get a subsidy based on my new homemade english definition of the word.

 

[Darkwind]

Yet another example of Trump's contempt for sound responsible governance and public policy.

if you can't make a profitable product w/o government intervention, not my fault. stop using my tax dollars to pay for it. when it can take root and grow and become a true benefit, then it will take off and be all that it will likely one day be.

Oil companies can't seem to do that.

US fossil fuel production is subsidized to the tune of $20 billion annually

Friendly policies keep US oil and coal afloat far more than we thought

Wow, those are not subsidies. Subsidies are a direct monetary payment from the government. <<--This is the ONLY subsidy that is being discussed.


Not putting more money in a housing program, or other government programs, or keeping more of their own money is NOT a subsidy.

oh. seabitch. he says things for effect, not conversation.

Yeah, I get that. I just don't want the lurker to think that fossil energy is getting direct payments from the government for their business like the electric vehicle market is.

 

[Darkwind]

Yet another example of Trump's contempt for sound responsible governance and public policy.

if you can't make a profitable product w/o government intervention, not my fault. stop using my tax dollars to pay for it. when it can take root and grow and become a true benefit, then it will take off and be all that it will likely one day be.

Oil companies can't seem to do that.

US fossil fuel production is subsidized to the tune of $20 billion annually

Friendly policies keep US oil and coal afloat far more than we thought

Wow, those are not subsidies. Subsidies are a direct monetary payment from the government. <<--This is the ONLY subsidy that is being discussed.


Not putting more money in a housing program, or other government programs, or keeping more of their own money is NOT a subsidy.

It's exactly like the "subsidy" for electric cars the idiot Trump wants to end.

Electic cars are getting direct monetary subsidies from the government whereas the fossil energy sector is not. If you read the article you post, you'll note the number of contortions made along with a redefining of what a subsidy is in order to justify the author's opinion.

 

[Seawytch]

Yet another example of Trump's contempt for sound responsible governance and public policy.

if you can't make a profitable product w/o government intervention, not my fault. stop using my tax dollars to pay for it. when it can take root and grow and become a true benefit, then it will take off and be all that it will likely one day be.

Oil companies can't seem to do that.

US fossil fuel production is subsidized to the tune of $20 billion annually

Friendly policies keep US oil and coal afloat far more than we thought

Wow, those are not subsidies. Subsidies are a direct monetary payment from the government. <<--This is the ONLY subsidy that is being discussed.


Not putting more money in a housing program, or other government programs, or keeping more of their own money is NOT a subsidy.

oh. seabitch. he says things for effect, not conversation.

Yeah, I get that. I just don't want the lurker to think that fossil energy is getting direct payments from the government for their business like the electric vehicle market is.

The electric car "subsidy" Donnie Dumb Ass wants to end is a TAX CREDIT, not a direct payment from the government.

On Monday, Kudlow said the president was referring to an Obama-era stimulus package that created a $7,500 consumer tax credit for the purchase of electric cars. He said the president’s considerations about revoking subsidies may not be directed specifically at GM, noting, “legally, you really can’t.” It is unclear whether the president has the authority to take this type of action because the stimulus package was created by legislation.​

Trump administration looks to pull the plug on electric-car tax credits