Education in our country is simply unacceptable

[CrusaderFrank]

Sarcasm, dingbat. lol

So they can't learn because they're poor, right?

No- bad jobs, neighborhoods, schools, family life, health care, class size- all the Pub default BS...READ sig pp1.

Failed Democrat cities are the fault of Pubs, right.

You keep saying "READ sig pp1." You know you're a mental patient, right?

 

[francoHFW]

The USA is the only modern country in the world where full time workers live in poverty and have no health care (750k bankruptcies a year, most HAVE insurance - crap insurance!)After 30 years of Voodoo: worst min. wage, work conditions, illegal work safeguards, vacations, work week, college costs, rich/poor gap, upward social mobility, % homeless and in prison EVAH, and in the modern world!! And you complain about the victims? Are you an idiot or an A-hole?


Pubs stop progress, so yes it's their fault. Start with living wage jobs, health care, good pay for teachers, good schools in poor neighborhoods, drug laws etc etc....

 

[squeeze berry]

Nope, we need to dump the Unions, dump unacceptable teachers.

Institute performance reviews with teeth....

Revamp pay structures, divert more money to GOOD teachers and less to administration.

I am of the opinion that the more intelligent your society is, the more prosperous your society will be. There is a direct correlation between a person's education and their income level. And I think it could be argued the same correlation exists on a national level.

I do believe in our education system and I think we have a good basic system in place for our children. What bothers me though is how much of our emphasis has shifted from education to less important things. And the scariest thing is how much higher education is being pushed away from young people due to rising costs.

American at one time was the best educated country in the world. When the government needed engineers for it's various programs in the golden age of the post-war boom, a significant percentage of the kids at the time were ushered into various government sponsored programs and eventually university degrees and very meaningful lives. There was also a time when it was possible to pay for a college education and an apartment on a part-time job.

However now the average college student has to amass several years worth of debt to pay for a college education thereby basically making them an indentured servant for the early part of their adulthood. Also the average cost of tuition for a four year jumped 15% from 2010 to 2012 and steadily climbs every year.

I can write a bunch more on this subject but I think you get my point. This government and this country really needs to re-focus it's energy on education and I'd even go as far to say we should consider subsidizing higher education on a more profound level.

the problem is a lack of reality from both sides


only 20 % to 25% of students are intellectually capable of benefitting from a university degree

the other 75% to 80% of the students should not be receiving a college prep education and receive vocational training instead.

drop-out age should be age 16. Many students that could care less are stuck to age 18. That % is anywhere from 25% to 50% of all public school students.

There are some, but very few "poor teachers" . Most are weeded out quickly. Failing students and parents are allowed to stay indefinitely.

Unions are not the problem. Politicians and educational beaurocrats make unrealistic and impractical policies that make educational difficult to impossible for classroom teachers in the name of pandering to the voter.

Unions don't tell teachers how or what to teach. They also protect good teachers.

Teachers are required to teach things like tying shoes and manners. Many kids have no manners and are not taught basic life skills at home.

The fear of litigation prevents the schools from implementing sound disciplinary policies. Disruptive students are allowed to stay b/c of government policies and laws.

Parents believe their child is "special" and be treated as such. The result is that the subject matter is dumbed down so little Johnny can keep up.


I could go on, but I need to go to sleep.

 

[BallsBrunswick]

I am of the opinion that the more intelligent your society is, the more prosperous your society will be. There is a direct correlation between a person's education and their income level. And I think it could be argued the same correlation exists on a national level.

I do believe in our education system and I think we have a good basic system in place for our children. What bothers me though is how much of our emphasis has shifted from education to less important things. And the scariest thing is how much higher education is being pushed away from young people due to rising costs.

American at one time was the best educated country in the world. When the government needed engineers for it's various programs in the golden age of the post-war boom, a significant percentage of the kids at the time were ushered into various government sponsored programs and eventually university degrees and very meaningful lives. There was also a time when it was possible to pay for a college education and an apartment on a part-time job.

However now the average college student has to amass several years worth of debt to pay for a college education thereby basically making them an indentured servant for the early part of their adulthood. Also the average cost of tuition for a four year jumped 15% from 2010 to 2012 and steadily climbs every year.

I can write a bunch more on this subject but I think you get my point. This government and this country really needs to re-focus it's energy on education and I'd even go as far to say we should consider subsidizing higher education on a more profound level.

You point out the pathetic bloat of the Liberal higher education racket that relies on government loans to rob our youth and exists primarily to self-perpetuate it's own inefficiency, and then in your next statement say the gubmint needs to subsidize it more.

You really haven't a freaking clue.

LOL

I disagree with virtually everything you said but I have missed your brand of lunacy. You disappeared for awhile. Welcome back you ******* wacko.

 

[thanatos144]

As much as I would like to lay all the blame on the teacher and their union, Good amount of the blame must also be placed at the feet of some parents and students. Too many parents today see the schools as little more than free day care, they do not take an active role in helping to educate their children nor do they take the time to encourage their children to learn and ask questions. Many times, an education is what you, the student, make it. I had many a sorry teacher coming up through the public school system. In many instances I got as much from their classes as I did from those of teachers who gave a damn. How? By asking questions and engaging the teacher, making him or her work. My parents were also there, encouraging me to do better, and urging me work harder when I fell short.

It seems to me that the education system failing on two fronts...

Bullshit. I pay a teachers to teach my kids and since I have to I lay the blame at the feet of the incompetent assholes stealing my tax money. It annoys me to all hell when people deflect blame from those paid to do a job to those paying. You wouldn't do that to the person mowing your lawn why do you for a teacher?

No, I think most of the blame does lie with parents. Other countries which are out performing us, parents will go to any and all lengths necessary to make sure their kids get a good education. In America we stop caring as soon as they're old enough to take care of themselves. It's nothing but daycare to us.

I'm not absolving teacher unions, which allow shitty teachers to keep their jobs. But even the best teacher can't teach a child who doesn't want to learn.

So A parent teaches their kids then what do we need to pay teachers for now? If I have and I do go out an buy books and teach my kids cause they are not learning it in school why am I paying for schools? My car breaks down I pay a mechanic to fix it I dont fix it my self and still pay the mechanic do I? Now while I am at it where do I find the extra 7 hours to do the teachers job for them?????? Unions are the problem but so is the fact we have to many sub par teachers ALSO the fact that the higher education they went to doesn't teach them anything they can use. Parents like me do everything we can but dammit we pay teachers to do what I AM NOW FORCED TO DO! time to call a spade a spade. Teachers are no more noble then any other profession... Shit maybe less the most since they dont work all year and it is damn hard to fire one.

The whole system is broken.

 

[Wacky Quacky]

Bullshit. I pay a teachers to teach my kids and since I have to I lay the blame at the feet of the incompetent assholes stealing my tax money. It annoys me to all hell when people deflect blame from those paid to do a job to those paying. You wouldn't do that to the person mowing your lawn why do you for a teacher?

No, I think most of the blame does lie with parents. Other countries which are out performing us, parents will go to any and all lengths necessary to make sure their kids get a good education. In America we stop caring as soon as they're old enough to take care of themselves. It's nothing but daycare to us.

I'm not absolving teacher unions, which allow shitty teachers to keep their jobs. But even the best teacher can't teach a child who doesn't want to learn.

So A parent teaches their kids then what do we need to pay teachers for now? If I have and I do go out an buy books and teach my kids cause they are not learning it in school why am I paying for schools? My car breaks down I pay a mechanic to fix it I dont fix it my self and still pay the mechanic do I? Now while I am at it where do I find the extra 7 hours to do the teachers job for them?????? Unions are the problem but so is the fact we have to many sub par teachers ALSO the fact that the higher education they went to doesn't teach them anything they can use. Parents like me do everything we can but dammit we pay teachers to do what I AM NOW FORCED TO DO! time to call a spade a spade. Teachers are no more noble then any other profession... Shit maybe less the most since they dont work all year and it is damn hard to fire one.

The whole system is broken.

You missed my point. I didn't say that parents need to teach kids themselves, I said that parents need to do whatever is necessary to make sure their kids get a good education. That means being actively involved, making sure they do their homework, helping them if they need it, and most of all dragging their asses to school. The first thing that pops into my head when hear about a high school drop out is "Where the **** are the parents"?

 

[thanatos144]

No, I think most of the blame does lie with parents. Other countries which are out performing us, parents will go to any and all lengths necessary to make sure their kids get a good education. In America we stop caring as soon as they're old enough to take care of themselves. It's nothing but daycare to us.

I'm not absolving teacher unions, which allow shitty teachers to keep their jobs. But even the best teacher can't teach a child who doesn't want to learn.

So A parent teaches their kids then what do we need to pay teachers for now? If I have and I do go out an buy books and teach my kids cause they are not learning it in school why am I paying for schools? My car breaks down I pay a mechanic to fix it I dont fix it my self and still pay the mechanic do I? Now while I am at it where do I find the extra 7 hours to do the teachers job for them?????? Unions are the problem but so is the fact we have to many sub par teachers ALSO the fact that the higher education they went to doesn't teach them anything they can use. Parents like me do everything we can but dammit we pay teachers to do what I AM NOW FORCED TO DO! time to call a spade a spade. Teachers are no more noble then any other profession... Shit maybe less the most since they dont work all year and it is damn hard to fire one.

The whole system is broken.

You missed my point. I didn't say that parents need to teach kids themselves, I said that parents need to do whatever is necessary to make sure their kids get a good education. That means being actively involved, making sure they do their homework, helping them if they need it, and most of all dragging their asses to school. The first thing that pops into my head when hear about a high school drop out is "Where the **** are the parents"?

we can only do so much. I do not ask teachers to be a second parent and teach then sex or morals. I just need them to teach them reading, math, science, history, civics and English. I dont think I am asking much. If my kids are being difficult I have NO PROBLEM dealing with that.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

The USA is the only modern country in the world where full time workers live in poverty and have no health care (750k bankruptcies a year, most HAVE insurance - crap insurance!)After 30 years of Voodoo: worst min. wage, work conditions, illegal work safeguards, vacations, work week, college costs, rich/poor gap, upward social mobility, % homeless and in prison EVAH, and in the modern world!! And you complain about the victims? Are you an idiot or an A-hole?


Pubs stop progress, so yes it's their fault. Start with living wage jobs, health care, good pay for teachers, good schools in poor neighborhoods, drug laws etc etc....

What the **** does any of that have to do with teaching kids how to read, write and think for themselves?

 

[Avatar4321]

Yes, republicans want to kill public education, keep the worker dumb, you keep him dependent.

And yet it's so called public education keeping the worker dumb and dependent. And it's beging controlled mostly by Democrats.

Which tells me, you don't have a clue what you are saying.

 

[Avatar4321]

Yes, republicans want to kill public education, keep the worker dumb, you keep him dependent.

The only groups "kill(ing) public education" are the bloated, over-fed teacher's unions.

Clearly you missed the education part of your life, teachers unions are NOT the problem here, it's closet cock suckers like you who make it harder for teachers to do their jobs. I bet you never stepped foot in a class room as a teacher.

Odd, even the progressives who actually want to improve education admit the teachers unions are a huge problem. See, they think the educational system exists to benefit them rather than the children.

Watch "Waiting for Superman" or any other documentary on the education system in this nation. You might learn something. But then you might also freak out because it challenges your paradign.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Democrats OWN the Public Education Failure

They OWN 100% of it

Dems OWN the Epic Fail that is Public Education

 

[Wacky Quacky]

Democrats OWN the Public Education Failure

They OWN 100% of it

Dems OWN the Epic Fail that is Public Education

Republicans own No Child Left Behind, a massive failure for our education system.

Both parties hold blame.

 

[Avatar4321]

Let's face it. We want to fix the educational system, we need to create a totally new system. Essentially do with the educational system what our Founders did with the Articles of Confederation.

 

[Avatar4321]

Pub default inner city....bad jobs, bad health care,bad family life... tyvm.

People like FrancoWtf are today's teachers

Now that's a scary thought. But it sure does explain alot.

 

[Wacky Quacky]

Let's face it. We want to fix the educational system, we need to create a totally new system. Essentially do with the educational system what our Founders did with the Articles of Confederation.

Let's start with simple things first.

School uniforms
Closed campuses
Quit buying overpriced Apple products for every classroom

That last one sounds like a dig at Apple, but it really does strike me as odd that schools will pay the inflated price of a mac instead of just buying a cheap pc.

 

[Avatar4321]

Yup, it's the poor peoples' fault, especially the blacks. See sig pp1.

This is precisely what is so insulting about Democrat policies of affirmative action. You are telling minorities they can't learn because they are a minority or poor without the government intervening. It's purely bullcrap. Every honest people knows that all people can learn.

God didn't create stupid people. Our educational system did when they started labeling people smart and stupid and you bought into it. Everyone can learn.

 

[Avatar4321]

I am of the opinion that the more intelligent your society is, the more prosperous your society will be. There is a direct correlation between a person's education and their income level. And I think it could be argued the same correlation exists on a national level.

I do believe in our education system and I think we have a good basic system in place for our children. What bothers me though is how much of our emphasis has shifted from education to less important things. And the scariest thing is how much higher education is being pushed away from young people due to rising costs.

American at one time was the best educated country in the world. When the government needed engineers for it's various programs in the golden age of the post-war boom, a significant percentage of the kids at the time were ushered into various government sponsored programs and eventually university degrees and very meaningful lives. There was also a time when it was possible to pay for a college education and an apartment on a part-time job.

However now the average college student has to amass several years worth of debt to pay for a college education thereby basically making them an indentured servant for the early part of their adulthood. Also the average cost of tuition for a four year jumped 15% from 2010 to 2012 and steadily climbs every year.

I can write a bunch more on this subject but I think you get my point. This government and this country really needs to re-focus it's energy on education and I'd even go as far to say we should consider subsidizing higher education on a more profound level.

Agreed.

And this board is proof.

I agree. Look at just about any of your posts.

 

[nodoginnafight]

As much as I would like to lay all the blame on the teachers and their union, good amount of the blame must also be placed at the feet of some parents and students. Too many parents today see the schools as little more than free day care, they do not take an active role in helping to educate their children nor do they take the time to encourage their children to learn and ask questions. Many times, an education is what you, the student, make it. I had many a sorry teacher coming up through the public school system. In many instances I got as much from their classes as I did from those of teachers who gave a damn. How? By asking questions and engaging the teacher, making him or her work. My parents were also there, encouraging me to do better, and urging me work harder when I fell short.

It seems to me that the education system failing on two fronts...

Terrific post.
Goes right to the core.
Of course the far right says it's government's or union's fault and the far right says it's the fault of not enough government.

No one EVER likes to look in the mirror when assessing blame. My son is going to get a good education one way or another. When his teacher or school leaves off - I pick up. If parents care enough, good education happens.

Yeah there's waste. We hire a teacher for every 30 children (or so) in the nation. Yeah, we're gonna hire some bad ones.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Democrats OWN the Public Education Failure

They OWN 100% of it

Dems OWN the Epic Fail that is Public Education

Republicans own No Child Left Behind, a massive failure for our education system.

Both parties hold blame.

Agreed.

Bush fucked it up, but then again, he didn't run on educational reform and neither did Romney

 

[Mr. Peepers]

we can only do so much. I do not ask teachers to be a second parent and teach then sex or morals. I just need them to teach them reading, math, science, history, civics and English. I dont think I am asking much. If my kids are being difficult I have NO PROBLEM dealing with that.

The problem is that now, all teachers are allowed to do is "teach for the test". No more art, music, social studies or innovative teaching methods allowed. The only thing they get graded on are those goddammed standardized tests that measure nothing but "cram for the test" skills. And not all teachers are in unions, moron.