Economically, Could Obama Be America's Best President?

[iamwhatiseem]

Holy Cow...how blind-stupid can some people be?
Bush was a terrible economic President...Obama is almost a 100% carbon copy of Bush's policies...to the tee.
So where is the "Could Bush be the best economic President" thread?

Consider 2001, 2009, 2013.

Notice any economic differences?

And exactly how has this anything to so with Bush or Obama's policies?
Presidents are not given some magical wand when they get in office that controls the economy. The economy is far-far-far more effected by long-term policies put in place years ago than some magical pill that makes it all better/worse.

 

[PMZ]

It would be 8% (The U-4 measure ) Though why you would want to count people who aren't trying to work, and couldn't be hired no matter how many jobs are available (because they're not trying to be hired) is a mystery.

They're important to look at as part of overall health and as possible future workers, but they're not unemployed and can't tell us what the labor market is actually like, only what they thought it was like when they quit looking.

I'm one of those no longer looking for work. I call it retired.

The specific question was "given up," so that's why I used the U-4, which is Unemployed plus Discouraged workers as a percent of the Labor Force plus Discouraged workers.

The Discouraged are those say they want to work, could take a job is offered, and who have looked for work in the last 12 months but not the last 4 weeks and stopped looking for the specific reason that they don't think they would find a job. Reasons include no jobs available, not the right education/skills, or any kind of discrimination.

These are the only ones I would consider to have "given up."

It's important to consider that private industry jobs are created by private industry, not government. Private industry created the unemploment problem by giving away American jobs to cheap foreign labor imported here, or sent them overseas.

They will solve the problem that they created. When? Who knows.

The government's problem is to keep workers whole until private industry can create work for them.

 

[AmazonTania]

Consider 2001, 2009, 2013.

Notice any economic differences?

2001 was a recovery from an economic collapse papered over with cheap money.

2009 was a recovery from an economic collapse papered over with cheap money.

When's the next economic collapse going to happen and where? Is it in the Bond Market, Student Loans or the US Dollar?

 

[PMZ]

Holy Cow...how blind-stupid can some people be?
Bush was a terrible economic President...Obama is almost a 100% carbon copy of Bush's policies...to the tee.
So where is the "Could Bush be the best economic President" thread?

Consider 2001, 2009, 2013.

Notice any economic differences?

And exactly how has this anything to so with Bush or Obama's policies?
Presidents are not given some magical wand when they get in office that controls the economy. The economy is far-far-far more effected by long-term policies put in place years ago than some magical pill that makes it all better/worse.

Bush inherited the economy of 2001, and created (to the degree that government hurts or helps the economy) 2009.

Obama inherited the economy of 2009, and created (to the degree that government hurts or helps the economy) 2013.

Anybody who sees those as equal performance is completely non objective or misinformed.

 

[AmazonTania]

It's important to consider that private industry jobs are created by private industry, not government. Private industry created the unemploment problem by giving away American jobs to cheap foreign labor imported here, or sent them overseas.

This problem was magnified by the same Government who expects the private sector to create all the jobs, and still comply with burdensome regulations, pay higher taxes and deal with the increasing labour cost, along with all the litigation and red tape which comes along with running a business.

Private Industry can only react to the policies laid forth by the Government. If you lower interest rates, people will stop saving and borrow more. If you raise taxes, people will try to avoid them. If you make it difficult and more burdensome to hire workers, people will switch to other forms of alternative labour.

People react to incentives. It's just that simple.

 

[PMZ]

Consider 2001, 2009, 2013.

Notice any economic differences?

2001 was a recovery from an economic collapse papered over with cheap money.

2009 was a recovery from an economic collapse papered over with cheap money.

When's the next economic collapse going to happen and where? Is it in the Bond Market, Student Loans or the US Dollar?

By what measures was 2001 a recovery from anything govermental?

The solution to your worry about the next economic collapse is to change TV channels. You'll be amazed at how different the world looks when you pay attention to news rather than Republican desperate propaganda designed to change the environment to avoid their extinction rather than adapting to what is.

 

[AmazonTania]

By what measures was 2001 a recovery from anything govermental?

It wasn't a recovery. It was barely a recession, as the recession was papered over to migrate the effects of a real recession. As a result, you got the 2008 Financial Crisis, which will lead to another crisis.

The solution to your worry about the next economic collapse is to change TV channels. You'll be amazed at how different the world looks when you pay attention to news rather than Republican desperate propaganda designed to change the environment to avoid their extinction rather than adapting to what is.

This phony recovery is the product of Federal stimulus, which can only be sustained by destroying the value of your dollar. What exactly do you think is going to happen once interest rates rise? If you don't think another economic collapse is coming, then you are probably just about as ignorant as those who believe we are experiencing a recovery.

 

[PMZ]

It's important to consider that private industry jobs are created by private industry, not government. Private industry created the unemploment problem by giving away American jobs to cheap foreign labor imported here, or sent them overseas.

This problem was magnified by the same Government who expects the private sector to create all the jobs, and still comply with burdensome regulations, pay higher taxes and deal with the increasing labour cost, along with all the litigation and red tape which comes along with running a business.

Private Industry can only react to the policies laid forth by the Government. If you lower interest rates, people will stop saving and borrow more. If you raise taxes, people will try to avoid them. If you make it difficult and more burdensome to hire workers, people will switch to other forms of alternative labour.

People react to incentives. It's just that simple.

I have a great deal more respect for private industry than you do. Lke sports teams, private industries all operate under the same rules. The best are those who are successful within the rules, not those most skilled at breaking them.

Today business leaders are focused on excuse making instead of growth. Workers are paying the price for the incompetence of leaders who enjoy great riches for little accomplishment.

You're right, "People react to incentives. It's just that simple."

 

[PMZ]

By what measures was 2001 a recovery from anything govermental?

It wasn't a recovery. It was barely a recession, as the recession was papered over to migrate the effects of a real recession. As a result, you got the 2008 Financial Crisis, which will lead to another crisis.

The solution to your worry about the next economic collapse is to change TV channels. You'll be amazed at how different the world looks when you pay attention to news rather than Republican desperate propaganda designed to change the environment to avoid their extinction rather than adapting to what is.

This phony recovery is the product of Federal stimulus, which can only be sustained by destroying the value of your dollar. What exactly do you think is going to happen once interest rates rise? If you don't think another economic collapse is coming, then you are probably just about as ignorant as those who believe we are experiencing a recovery.

Bush's policies in 2001 and after we're his desperate attempt to pay the bills from his holy wars and wealth redistribution tax cuts.

When interest rates go up again we will be celebrating the recovery of private industry from their collasal blunder of trading American jobs for princely executive bonuses.

 

[AmazonTania]

I have a great deal more respect for private industry than you do. Lke sports teams, private industries all operate under the same rules. The best are those who are successful within the rules, not those most skilled at breaking them.

You are describing a Free Market system, which America has never been. Capitalism allows businesses to compete against one another for your business. This is good for consumers as it drives cost down, but bad for businesses because they have to work harder for your business. As a result, many businesses turn to the Government for special advantages.

If you don't like it, get the government out of central planning.

Today business leaders are focused on excuse making instead of growth. Workers are paying the price for the incompetence of leaders who enjoy great riches for little accomplishment.

That's there problem. They would be better off learning why businesses operate they do instead of turning a bureaucracy with some sort of magic wand to cure all of their illnesses.

You're right, "People react to incentives. It's just that simple."

So instead of complaining about corporations taking your jobs overseas, figure out what would incentivize them to invest in your country instead of somewhere else.

 

[AmazonTania]

Bush's policies in 2001 and after we're his desperate attempt to pay the bills from his holy wars and wealth redistribution tax cuts.

When interest rates go up again we will be celebrating the recovery of private industry from their collasal blunder of trading American jobs for princely executive bonuses.

American jobs being eliminated from the work force is the result of America's inability to be competitive with the rest of the work. This has been going on since the 1970's. No one wants American jobs to be eliminated, but no one is willing to take the steps necessary to keep these jobs. You can't have it both ways.

 

[pinqy]

I'm one of those no longer looking for work. I call it retired.

The specific question was "given up," so that's why I used the U-4, which is Unemployed plus Discouraged workers as a percent of the Labor Force plus Discouraged workers.

The Discouraged are those say they want to work, could take a job is offered, and who have looked for work in the last 12 months but not the last 4 weeks and stopped looking for the specific reason that they don't think they would find a job. Reasons include no jobs available, not the right education/skills, or any kind of discrimination.

These are the only ones I would consider to have "given up."

It's important to consider that private industry jobs are created by private industry, not government. Private industry created the unemploment problem by giving away American jobs to cheap foreign labor imported here, or sent them overseas.

They will solve the problem that they created. When? Who knows.

The government's problem is to keep workers whole until private industry can create work for them.

All the gains in employment since Feb 2010 (when jobs bottomed out) have been in the Private Sector. With the exception of hiring for the 2010 Census, Government jobs have gone down (fewer govt jobs than pre-recession).

 

[GHook93]

I love when people use the stock market and the Faux unemployment level as measuring sticks for how great the economy is doing.

I want to be frank, all of this IS NOT Obama, nor Bush's fault, some is, but not all.
(1) Inflation is growing to unthinkable levels. Food, rent, gas, education, clothes etc. are rising while income are remaining stagnate or going down. That is a bad trend. People aren't able to afford the basics necessities or are scrapping by.

(2) Faux unemployment might be going down, but work force participation rates is at it's lowest point since the great depression. The reason unemployment has gone down is primarily due to people leaving the work force. The unemployment picture as a whole is not getting better it's getting worse.

(3) Youth employment prospects are at it worse levels ever. I remember in high school getting a part-time job was simple. Now those jobs are taken by adults and most can't find work, but that isn't the big problem. The problem is when the youth graduate from college and walk see their job prospects are bleak, but have a mass amount of student loan debt to pay. This is why the Youth revolted in the boneheaded occupy protests!

(4) National Debt: In one term Obama doubled the national debt and now in his second our national debt exceed our GDP! Many fools say national debt who cares! See Greece and then start caring!

(5) Record number of people on food stamps! First I want to point out a myth. Food stamps don't cover all person's needs. My brother-in-law, who has MS went on food stamps and they provided him $200 a month for him and his son! Honestly that's going to cut it for anyone. They say a quarter of the population is on food stamps and growing. That is not a sign of a great economy!

(6) Record numbers on welfare. This is due to partially to the Obama Adm actually advertising for welfare. It's getting sick home many able body FREE-LOADERS are on welfare and section 8! I am for helping the helpless, but not the hopeless.

(7) Record number on social security disability. Many people should be in SSD and deserve to be on it. However, there are many people that scam their way onto it. This is not a sing of a great economy.

(8) Manufacturing sector employs less and less Americans. A healthy manufacturing sector employs btw 20-30% of the work force. The US employs 9%, despite producing more good than any other country, INCLUDING CHINA. What is the reason. First, automation and efficiency. American manufacturers are increasing getting automated and are the most efficient in the world. Then the manufacturing that requires workers is getting shipped out to most China. Obama and Bush weren't the only one's to ignore this trend, but Obama (as did Bush) doesn't nothing to reverse it.

(9) More Americans under the poverty line since the Great Depression. Again not the sign of a great economy!

 

[PMZ]

I have a great deal more respect for private industry than you do. Lke sports teams, private industries all operate under the same rules. The best are those who are successful within the rules, not those most skilled at breaking them.

You are describing a Free Market system, which America has never been. Capitalism allows businesses to compete against one another for your business. This is good for consumers as it drives cost down, but bad for businesses because they have to work harder for your business. As a result, many businesses turn to the Government for special advantages.

If you don't like it, get the government out of central planning.

There's good reason why nobody can afford a free market system. It would turn into one company running roughshod over the entire country. So far, by ignoring people like you, we've managed to take advantage of private ownership of the means of production by effective regulation to insure competition, and keeping private industry living within our will, rather than us living according to their one rule, make more money regardless of the cost to others.

Today business leaders are focused on excuse making instead of growth. Workers are paying the price for the incompetence of leaders who enjoy great riches for little accomplishment.

That's there problem. They would be better off learning why businesses operate they do instead of turning a bureaucracy with some sort of magic wand to cure all of their illnesses.

You're right, "People react to incentives. It's just that simple."

So instead of complaining about corporations taking your jobs overseas, figure out what would incentivize them to invest in your country instead of somewhere else.

Why are you so negative about the capability of business that you believe that we, the people, need to pay them to make money?

 

[PMZ]

Still learning. Haven't figured out the quote thing yet. It will take a little detective work to figure out both of my responses. Sorry.

 

[AmazonTania]

Why are you so negative about the capability of business that you believe that we, the people, need to pay them to make money?

Allowing people to keep more of what they earn isn't paying them. I am merely suggesting that people look at the facts.

Fact #1: Corporations reallocate labour and capital due to tax rates and choose to invest in places which are more business friendly.

Fact #2: Other developing nations who also export do not have this sort of problem. Often times, many of these countries are the same type of countries US companies are shifting resources to.

Instead of just pounding our chest and suggesting we don't have to lower ourselves because 'we're Americans' (I'm not), why don't we look at what these other countries are doing right and what Americans are doing wrong. Contrary to popular belief, America is not a special place.

 

[PMZ]

I love when people use the stock market and the Faux unemployment level as measuring sticks for how great the economy is doing.

I want to be frank, all of this IS NOT Obama, nor Bush's fault, some is, but not all.
(1) Inflation is growing to unthinkable levels. Food, rent, gas, education, clothes etc. are rising while income are remaining stagnate or going down. That is a bad trend. People aren't able to afford the basics necessities or are scrapping by.

(2) Faux unemployment might be going down, but work force participation rates is at it's lowest point since the great depression. The reason unemployment has gone down is primarily due to people leaving the work force. The unemployment picture as a whole is not getting better it's getting worse.

(3) Youth employment prospects are at it worse levels ever. I remember in high school getting a part-time job was simple. Now those jobs are taken by adults and most can't find work, but that isn't the big problem. The problem is when the youth graduate from college and walk see their job prospects are bleak, but have a mass amount of student loan debt to pay. This is why the Youth revolted in the boneheaded occupy protests!

(4) National Debt: In one term Obama doubled the national debt and now in his second our national debt exceed our GDP! Many fools say national debt who cares! See Greece and then start caring!

(5) Record number of people on food stamps! First I want to point out a myth. Food stamps don't cover all person's needs. My brother-in-law, who has MS went on food stamps and they provided him $200 a month for him and his son! Honestly that's going to cut it for anyone. They say a quarter of the population is on food stamps and growing. That is not a sign of a great economy!

(6) Record numbers on welfare. This is due to partially to the Obama Adm actually advertising for welfare. It's getting sick home many able body FREE-LOADERS are on welfare and section 8! I am for helping the helpless, but not the hopeless.

(7) Record number on social security disability. Many people should be in SSD and deserve to be on it. However, there are many people that scam their way onto it. This is not a sing of a great economy.

(8) Manufacturing sector employs less and less Americans. A healthy manufacturing sector employs btw 20-30% of the work force. The US employs 9%, despite producing more good than any other country, INCLUDING CHINA. What is the reason. First, automation and efficiency. American manufacturers are increasing getting automated and are the most efficient in the world. Then the manufacturing that requires workers is getting shipped out to most China. Obama and Bush weren't the only one's to ignore this trend, but Obama (as did Bush) doesn't nothing to reverse it.

(9) More Americans under the poverty line since the Great Depression. Again not the sign of a great economy!

Apparently, there's a link between creating wealth, and having it.

And between workers and consumers.

Our economic woes will continue until everyone who can create wealth, is, and is retaining a fair enough portion of the wealth that he/she creates to be a robust consumer. There is only one path from here to there. Innovation.

 

[PMZ]

Why are you so negative about the capability of business that you believe that we, the people, need to pay them to make money?

Allowing people to keep more of what they earn isn't paying them. I am merely suggesting that people look at the facts.

Fact #1: Corporations reallocate labour and capital due to tax rates and choose to invest in places which are more business friendly.

Fact #2: Other developing nations who also export do not have this sort of problem. Often times, maybe of these countries are the same type of countries US companies are shifting resources to.

Instead of just pounding our chest and suggesting we don't have to lower ourselves because 'we're Americans' (I'm not), why don't we look at what these other countries are doing right and what Americans are doing wrong. Contrary to popular belief, America is not a special place.

I agree that we are part of global markets now. Our advantage has always been our investment in innovative technology, both for new products, and to allow high paid workers to out produce low cost labor.

Business brains have been reprogrammed from focusing on growth and income to cost cutting. It's a dead end street. We will continue to lose until we return to belief in plenty rather than running from scarcity.

 

[regent]

Well so far the historians have only rated Obama on his first two years in office, and in that rating he was rated 15th. best American president to that date. How he will be rated at the end of his terms and maybe ten years from now is hard to say. If he were rated today, I would guess Obama would rate about 10th best president, just above Ike.
A long way to go yet.

 

[PMZ]

Well so far the historians have only rated Obama on his first two years in office, and in that rating he was rated 15th. best American president to that date. How he will be rated at the end of his terms and maybe ten years from now is hard to say. If he were rated today, I would guess Obama would rate about 10th best president, just above Ike.
A long way to go yet.

While its interesting to speculate about how history will regard President Obama, it's probably more important that the electorate sees demonstrated what it takes to be a highly regarded President.

Republicans instructed their faithful, through Rush and Rupert et al, to advertise that his shortage of business experience was a fatal flaw. My opinion was and is that virtually every minute of his life was nearly ideal Presidential training, and business experience would have detracted from, instead of adding to, his qualifications. The results that he has achieved seem to reinforce my judgement.

That the electorate tends to agree was demonstrated by his easy defeat of Romney who had virtually nothing to offer but business cred.

All in all, hope for America's future.