Dylann Roof convicted of killing church goers

[MikeK]

You both appear agreed Roof is a waste of space and food. There is no doubt about his guilt.

The waste factor is not as simple as you seem to think.

Imposing the death penalty will trigger a long sequence of appeals (years) the cost of which will closely approximate the cost of a life sentence. And you may rest assured Roof will not live long in prison. If he doesn't kill himself someone else will do it.

In Roof's example death is not a punishment. It is merciful slumber.

 

[MikeK]

Has to be tough knowing everytime you eat a meal your loved ones murderer is having a meal too.

But the food and surrounding circumstances are considerably different -- at every meal, day after day after day.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Has to be tough knowing everytime you eat a meal your loved ones murderer is having a meal too.

But the food and surrounding circumstances are considerably different -- at every meal, day after day after day.

Being taken care of, 3 hot meals a day laughing with friends while the loved ones of his victim struggle to survive.
Prison is not a bad place for many. Repeat offenders tell us that.

 

[Weatherman2020]

You both appear agreed Roof is a waste of space and food. There is no doubt about his guilt.

The waste factor is not as simple as you seem to think.

Imposing the death penalty will trigger a long sequence of appeals (years) the cost of which will closely approximate the cost of a life sentence. And you may rest assured Roof will not live long in prison. If he doesn't kill himself someone else will do it.

In Roof's example death is not a punishment. It is merciful slumber.

He admitted to the murders. On what grounds would an appeal be based?

 

[Divine Wind]

You both appear agreed Roof is a waste of space and food. There is no doubt about his guilt.

The waste factor is not as simple as you seem to think.

Imposing the death penalty will trigger a long sequence of appeals (years) the cost of which will closely approximate the cost of a life sentence. And you may rest assured Roof will not live long in prison. If he doesn't kill himself someone else will do it.

In Roof's example death is not a punishment. It is merciful slumber.

Sorry for not being clear. Being a waste of space and food isn't criteria for execution. Agreed death is slumber. There's the fear of dying leading up to it, then it's over. Spending the next 50-70 years in a concrete box is a more severe punishment.

 

[Divine Wind]

You both appear agreed Roof is a waste of space and food. There is no doubt about his guilt.

The waste factor is not as simple as you seem to think.

Imposing the death penalty will trigger a long sequence of appeals (years) the cost of which will closely approximate the cost of a life sentence. And you may rest assured Roof will not live long in prison. If he doesn't kill himself someone else will do it.

In Roof's example death is not a punishment. It is merciful slumber.

He admitted to the murders. On what grounds would an appeal be based?

It would be appealing the death penalty, not his guilt.

 

[Divine Wind]

Being taken care of, 3 hot meals a day laughing with friends while the loved ones of his victim struggle to survive.
Prison is not a bad place for many. Repeat offenders tell us that.

Locked in a concrete box, eating shit food, having every second of every day scheduled and controlled, having his front teeth knocked out the first time he's caught alone so he won't be able to bite down on all the dicks he's going to suck. Death would be preferable that 50-70 years of that. It's not like he will ever get out due to "new evidence". He'll be literally and figuratively fucked of most of this century.

 

[Weatherman2020]

You both appear agreed Roof is a waste of space and food. There is no doubt about his guilt.

The waste factor is not as simple as you seem to think.

Imposing the death penalty will trigger a long sequence of appeals (years) the cost of which will closely approximate the cost of a life sentence. And you may rest assured Roof will not live long in prison. If he doesn't kill himself someone else will do it.

In Roof's example death is not a punishment. It is merciful slumber.

He admitted to the murders. On what grounds would an appeal be based?

It would be appealing the death penalty, not his guilt.

Ah yes, putting mass murderers to death is cruelty.

 

[yiostheoy]

...Being a waste of space and food isn't criteria for execution. Agreed death is slumber. There's the fear of dying leading up to it, then it's over. Spending the next 50-70 years in a concrete box is a more severe punishment.

Each of the various States draws up their own statutes based on the legislators who have been elected by the residents there.

In some states the majority want capital punishment and in others they do not. The Fed's also have capital punishment, as was evidenced by Timothy McVeigh.

The love or hate of capital punishment is simply an emotional response by different peoples.

Divine.Wind since you are in Texas you live in a State where the People execute more felons than any other state. You should move to California where this issue is more of a close call, then your vote and your rhetoric would count. In Texas it won't. You are outnumbered there.

 

[Divine Wind]

Ah yes, putting mass murderers to death is cruelty.

Disagreed for the aforementioned reasons.

 

[yiostheoy]

Since ancient times, the death penalty has been applied to various crimes. Treason is the most common. Treasonous acts threaten the kings and princes of a land, and therefore put the lives of its people and its leaders at risk. Treason is a form of attempted murder.

Murder defined as killing while lying in wait is also quite common as a crime punished with the death penalty. There are lots of good reasons why a death penalty is an appropriate sentence for murderers.

Murder alone rarely draws the death penalty today. Normally some kind of especially heinous murder or a multiple murder are the only varieties of murder that are punished with execution these days.

D.Roof murdered so many people during his mass killing spree that he certainly deserves execution more than anyone else presently, similar to Timothy McVeigh.

 

[Divine Wind]

...Being a waste of space and food isn't criteria for execution. Agreed death is slumber. There's the fear of dying leading up to it, then it's over. Spending the next 50-70 years in a concrete box is a more severe punishment.

Each of the various States draws up their own statutes based on the legislators who have been elected by the residents there.

In some states the majority want capital punishment and in others they do not. The Fed's also have capital punishment, as was evidenced by Timothy McVeigh.

The love or hate of capital punishment is simply an emotional response by different peoples.

Agreed. My concern about the death penalty is the guilt of the convicted. It appears Texas has executed at least two innocent people. That's not a problem in this case.

IMHO, the problem of death penalty in cases like Dylan's is two-fold;
1) It's more punishment to keep him alive and locked in a box.
2) Since we're a litigious society, and to minimize executions of innocent people, death penalty cases have an extensive appeals process costing more in legal fees than lifetime incarceration. As the link below notes, those legal costs often end up seeing their sentence reduced to life anyway.

Costs of the Death Penalty | Death Penalty Information Center
Federal Costs
The average cost of defending a trial in a federal death case is $620,932, about 8 times that of a federal murder case in which the death penalty is not sought. A study found that those defendants whose representation was the least expensive, and thus who received the least amount of attorney and expert time, had an increased probability of receiving a death sentence. Defendants with less than $320,000 in terms of representation costs (the bottom 1/3 of federal capital trials) had a 44% chance of receiving a death sentence at trial. On the other hand, those defendants whose representation costs were higher than $320,000 (the remaining 2/3 of federal capital trials) had only a 19% chance of being sentenced to death. Thus, the study concluded that defendants with low representation costs were more than twice as likely to receive a death sentence. The complete report can be found here.

 

[yiostheoy]

Disagreed for the aforementioned reasons.

Divine.Wind your reasons are your own emotional responses.

They do not outweigh in any way the "reasons" of others who DO support capital punishment.

It is simply a numbers game.

In Texas (your state) there are more people who disagree with you.

Without majority rule we would have anarchy.

 

[Divine Wind]

Since ancient times, the death penalty has been applied to various crimes. Treason is the most common. Treasonous acts threaten the kings and princes of a land, and therefore put the lives of its people and its leaders at risk. Treason is a form of attempted murder.

Murder defined as killing while lying in wait is also quite common as a crime punished with the death penalty. There are lots of good reasons why a death penalty is an appropriate sentence for murderers.

Murder alone rarely draws the death penalty today. Normally some kind of especially heinous murder or a multiple murder are the only varieties of murder that are punished with execution these days.

D.Roof murdered so many people during his mass killing spree that he certainly deserves execution more than anyone else presently, similar to Timothy McVeigh.

In ancient times, incarceration was dicey and expensive. Easier to cut off their head and be done with it. This ain't ancient times.

While Dylann certainly deserves it, for the previously mentioned reasons, I think he should be sentenced to life.

 

[yiostheoy]

...Being a waste of space and food isn't criteria for execution. Agreed death is slumber. There's the fear of dying leading up to it, then it's over. Spending the next 50-70 years in a concrete box is a more severe punishment.

Each of the various States draws up their own statutes based on the legislators who have been elected by the residents there.

In some states the majority want capital punishment and in others they do not. The Fed's also have capital punishment, as was evidenced by Timothy McVeigh.

The love or hate of capital punishment is simply an emotional response by different peoples.

Agreed. My concern about the death penalty is the guilt of the convicted. It appears Texas has executed at least two innocent people. That's not a problem in this case.

IMHO, the problem of death penalty in cases like Dylan's is two-fold;
1) It's more punishment to keep him alive and locked in a box.
2) Since we're a litigious society, and to minimize executions of innocent people, death penalty cases have an extensive appeals process costing more in legal fees than lifetime incarceration. As the link below notes, those legal costs often end up seeing their sentence reduced to life anyway.

Costs of the Death Penalty | Death Penalty Information Center
Federal Costs
The average cost of defending a trial in a federal death case is $620,932, about 8 times that of a federal murder case in which the death penalty is not sought. A study found that those defendants whose representation was the least expensive, and thus who received the least amount of attorney and expert time, had an increased probability of receiving a death sentence. Defendants with less than $320,000 in terms of representation costs (the bottom 1/3 of federal capital trials) had a 44% chance of receiving a death sentence at trial. On the other hand, those defendants whose representation costs were higher than $320,000 (the remaining 2/3 of federal capital trials) had only a 19% chance of being sentenced to death. Thus, the study concluded that defendants with low representation costs were more than twice as likely to receive a death sentence. The complete report can be found here.

There are not supposed to be mistakes in death penalty cases.

Unfortunately there possibly are.

Mistakes happen.

Mistakes happening is no reason to pardon heinous murderers from execution. Sorry but I must respectfully disagree with you, my friend.

 

[Divine Wind]

Disagreed for the aforementioned reasons.

Divine.Wind your reasons are your own emotional responses....

What do you find emotional about my response(s)?

 

[yiostheoy]

In ancient times, incarceration was dicey and expensive. Easier to cut off their head and be done with it. This ain't ancient times.

While Dylann certainly deserves it, for the previously mentioned reasons, I think he should be sentenced to life.

Well that will be the call to be made by a NC jury and a NC judge.

They have their own views.

It is really hard to argue against execution for a mass killer.

Nobody feels sorry for mass killers.

 

[Divine Wind]

...Being a waste of space and food isn't criteria for execution. Agreed death is slumber. There's the fear of dying leading up to it, then it's over. Spending the next 50-70 years in a concrete box is a more severe punishment.

Each of the various States draws up their own statutes based on the legislators who have been elected by the residents there.

In some states the majority want capital punishment and in others they do not. The Fed's also have capital punishment, as was evidenced by Timothy McVeigh.

The love or hate of capital punishment is simply an emotional response by different peoples.

Agreed. My concern about the death penalty is the guilt of the convicted. It appears Texas has executed at least two innocent people. That's not a problem in this case.

IMHO, the problem of death penalty in cases like Dylan's is two-fold;
1) It's more punishment to keep him alive and locked in a box.
2) Since we're a litigious society, and to minimize executions of innocent people, death penalty cases have an extensive appeals process costing more in legal fees than lifetime incarceration. As the link below notes, those legal costs often end up seeing their sentence reduced to life anyway.

Costs of the Death Penalty | Death Penalty Information Center
Federal Costs
The average cost of defending a trial in a federal death case is $620,932, about 8 times that of a federal murder case in which the death penalty is not sought. A study found that those defendants whose representation was the least expensive, and thus who received the least amount of attorney and expert time, had an increased probability of receiving a death sentence. Defendants with less than $320,000 in terms of representation costs (the bottom 1/3 of federal capital trials) had a 44% chance of receiving a death sentence at trial. On the other hand, those defendants whose representation costs were higher than $320,000 (the remaining 2/3 of federal capital trials) had only a 19% chance of being sentenced to death. Thus, the study concluded that defendants with low representation costs were more than twice as likely to receive a death sentence. The complete report can be found here.

There are not supposed to be mistakes in death penalty cases.

Unfortunately there possibly are.

Mistakes happen.

Mistakes happening is no reason to pardon heinous murderers from execution. Sorry but I must respectfully disagree with you, my friend.

So, in your opinion, it's okay to execute an innocent person as long as we execute 999 heinous criminals? That it's the equivalent of "cost of doing business"?

 

[yiostheoy]

What do you find emotional about my response(s)?

Ethics is always emotional at its foundation.

You are weighing feelings one way and the other.

 

[yiostheoy]

So, in your opinion, it's okay to execute an innocent person as long as we execute 999 heinous criminals? That it's the equivalent of "cost of doing business"?

In my opinion, using mistakes as an excuse to prohibit capital punishment is a rhetorical emotional argument against justice.

We should try not to make mistakes.

But mistakes will always happen.