Drunk driver kills jewish couple, flees scene, baby delivered

[NoTeaPartyPleez]

Not sure what he meant but I didn't agree with Noomi's statement but I think she also jumped the gun with the statement and probably regrets it.

I think you're exactly right. That didn't sound like Noomi at all.

My first reaction upon seeing this couple was that they looked like they were stuck in the 1850's. They don't live like its 2013, they live like its 1910. They look like its 1910.

My posts were simply based upon my first reaction at seeing their photo, and obviously I have insulted a few people, but I just posted the first thing that came into my head.

What head?

 

[gallantwarrior]

Why did the BMW driver flee the scene?

My first thought is illegals....2nd thought is uninsured....

My first thought was "cowardly *****!"

 

[Pogo]

Why did the BMW driver flee the scene?

My first thought is illegals....2nd thought is uninsured....

My first thought was "cowardly *****!"

OK so we've got uninsured illegals driving a BMW, which makes them drunks, because as the OP tells us, BMW drivers are drunks. Anything more plug-ins? Druggies? NASCAR drivers? Gays?

Since the OP veered out ot its way to point out the victims were Jews, I guess he wants us to conclude it's an act of terrorism (?)...
Ergo, drunk uninsured illegal immigrant gay NASCAR drug-running terrorists are using BMWs as their instrument of choice. It's obvious.

 

[MHunterB]

About Noomi's comment: it was indeed ill-considered and stupidly bigoted. But just because the 'recipients' in this instance were Jews, doesn't make it 'anti-Jewish' bigotry....

My wedding picture features my husband wearing his dress greens: I'd be pretty upset if ALL someone else could 'see' in that was 'trained killer'. There is so much more about any of us than 'liberal/conservative', or whatever other axis comes to mind.

I think some of the reason some here were so taken aback by the gross discourtesy of such a remark, is that usually we blurt out idiotic things verbally but taking the time to write/type slows it down enough our brain has the time it needs to engage and veto.....

 

[AmyNation]

The couple who were killed were a bunch of weirdo freaks who belonged on Little House On The Prairie. No one dresses like they are stuck in the 19th century, at least not normal people.

At least the kid will have a normal life - hopefully.

And there is no evidence as yet that the driver was drunk, it could have been someone speeding.

Sometimes you post and sound like an adult, and other times Im convinced youre a 15 year old child.

 

[oldfart]

Those people have the right to raise their children as they see fit, as are people all over the world, based on their religious or cultural beliefs and lifestyles, unless the child is being abused, physically or mentally.

First, I cringe over the phrase "Those people". While I agree in principle with your view of parental rights, the issue of rights of cultures vs rights of individuals is one of the world's most basic conundrums. The "unless the is being abused" covers a helluva lot of ground. A good case could be made that most of the cultures of the world are validating child abuse. How do you feel about female genital mutilation? Education of girls? Shunning of disabled or deformed children? Denial of medical care of children on religious grounds? Burning of witches? Teaching boys that their manly obligations include honor killings?

After a long, long time wrestling with this as a philosophical problem, I have finally come down on the side of universal human rights. Cultures which cannot adapt to those standards should either be permanently isolated on reservations or forced to abandon the most pernicious practices. I don't believe in cultural autonomy anymore, and I fully accept that my views appear elitist; but at least I don't have childrens' blood on my hands as a result of a misguided political correctness and "cultural sensitivity".

 

[Againsheila]

Why did the BMW driver flee the scene?

My first thought is illegals....2nd thought is uninsured....

My first thought is that the BMW was stolen.

Usually illegals don't have BMWs. And if someone can afford a BMW usually they an afford the insurance.

Well, it didn't say how new the BMW was, my sister has a BMW but it's not new.

 

[MHunterB]

I'm not trying to 'pile on' and attack Noomi - quite the opposite! While I think her first reaction was (insert negatives here), I don't recall any instance where Noomi expressed a truly anti-Semitic idea. And if anything, I'd judge myself to be a bit overly-sensitive on that issue.

In short - a person may express an anti-Semitic stereotype or such once or twice, it may even be 'anti-Semitic' - but that doesn't always mean they are a bigot. Sometimes people are truly unaware that a phrase like 'I jewed him down' is ultimately anti-Semitic and they will use it in ignorance - but once they are informed, they make an effort to refrain from such usage.

As I'm not condemning Noomi - I also don't condemn those who went after her even though I think it was an over-reaction. I choose to regard it that each of you was trying to be vigilant in guarding against hatred and bigotry.

I know this was really off- topic, and I thank everyone for their indulgence while I added my 2cents' worth.

 

[MHunterB]

The couple who were killed were a bunch of weirdo freaks who belonged on Little House On The Prairie. No one dresses like they are stuck in the 19th century, at least not normal people.

At least the kid will have a normal life - hopefully.

And there is no evidence as yet that the driver was drunk, it could have been someone speeding.

Sometimes you post and sound like an adult, and other times Im convinced youre a 15 year old child.

I think that's probably true of very many posters here..... but that is kind of what I was getting at.

 

[Pogo]

My first thought is illegals....2nd thought is uninsured....

My first thought is that the BMW was stolen.

Usually illegals don't have BMWs. And if someone can afford a BMW usually they an afford the insurance.

Well, it didn't say how new the BMW was, my sister has a BMW but it's not new.

I have a BMW product in the driveway, and yet I don't drink. Go figure.

 

[Pogo]

I'm not trying to 'pile on' and attack Noomi - quite the opposite! While I think her first reaction was (insert negatives here), I don't recall any instance where Noomi expressed a truly anti-Semitic idea. And if anything, I'd judge myself to be a bit overly-sensitive on that issue.

In short - a person may express an anti-Semitic stereotype or such once or twice, it may even be 'anti-Semitic' - but that doesn't always mean they are a bigot. Sometimes people are truly unaware that a phrase like 'I jewed him down' is ultimately anti-Semitic and they will use it in ignorance - but once they are informed, they make an effort to refrain from such usage.

As I'm not condemning Noomi - I also don't condemn those who went after her even though I think it was an over-reaction. I choose to regard it that each of you was trying to be vigilant in guarding against hatred and bigotry.

I know this was really off- topic, and I thank everyone for their indulgence while I added my 2cents' worth.

I agree completely. I found the comment bizarre and have been trying to understand where it came from. I also found the reactions to it to be overreactions, so it was just going from bad to worse. Nothing productive comes from hate.

 

[emilynghiem]

Not sure what he meant but I didn't agree with Noomi's statement but I think she also jumped the gun with the statement and probably regrets it.

I think you're exactly right. That didn't sound like Noomi at all.

My first reaction upon seeing this couple was that they looked like they were stuck in the 1850's. They don't live like its 2013, they live like its 1910. They look like its 1910.

My posts were simply based upon my first reaction at seeing their photo, and obviously I have insulted a few people, but I just posted the first thing that came into my head.

And for the record, I am not an anti Semite. Never have been, because I detest people like that.

Dear Noomi:
My first reaction was also to stare at the man's funny hat. Under any other circumstances, anyone could have easily used this picture to start poking fun.

But given the circumstances, it does not make sense to say things that detract and do not show equal compassion for valuing the lives, pain and suffering of these people and their families/community as you would your own. That is just not appropriate here; maybe in some other context, if there was a forum or thread about discussing the perceptions of Amish and other traditions viewed as outside the norm, then it would be clearly on point; but bringing that up when a family has lost someone so suddenly is going to come across as trying to attack the victim as less valuable or dignified as a human than yourself.

It is only going to make you look hurtful and hateful.

Noomi, can you honestly say that if this couple was someone you knew that you were upset about, you would make comments and post them publicly speculating how the child could have had a better life? Or what their clothes or lifestyle looked like to you? Would you really?

If you treat others with less respect, dignity or concern than you would yourself or someone you know and care about, that already shows a bias.

it does not have to be necessarily racist or anti-jewish or this or that.
just the fact that if you don't know someone you treat them differently, is already a bias.

So given that we ALL do this to some degree
that is why it is important to be careful how you react.

I can have the same impulses or questions you do, and I'm sure other people couldn't help but notice the difference in hairstyle and clothing etc.

Since you detest people who are anti-semitic or otherwise biased in ways you deem unfair,
I can only guess that you were responding out of this same feeling.

If you can understand that you did not mean to come across as anti-semitic
maybe you can see how OTHERS could just say what comes to mind as you did here,
and not realize they are coming across as hateful or hurtful.

Thank you, Noomi, for this opportunity to talk honestly about what we
think and how we say and see things. I hope this helps you in the future to understand when other people react and say things you deem inappropriate or unfair.

Yours truly,
Emily

 

[Pogo]

Those people have the right to raise their children as they see fit, as are people all over the world, based on their religious or cultural beliefs and lifestyles, unless the child is being abused, physically or mentally.

First, I cringe over the phrase "Those people". While I agree in principle with your view of parental rights, the issue of rights of cultures vs rights of individuals is one of the world's most basic conundrums. The "unless the is being abused" covers a helluva lot of ground. A good case could be made that most of the cultures of the world are validating child abuse. How do you feel about female genital mutilation? Education of girls? Shunning of disabled or deformed children? Denial of medical care of children on religious grounds? Burning of witches? Teaching boys that their manly obligations include honor killings?

After a long, long time wrestling with this as a philosophical problem, I have finally come down on the side of universal human rights. Cultures which cannot adapt to those standards should either be permanently isolated on reservations or forced to abandon the most pernicious practices. I don't believe in cultural autonomy anymore, and I fully accept that my views appear elitist; but at least I don't have childrens' blood on my hands as a result of a misguided political correctness and "cultural sensitivity".

Good points also.

But I think you might wanna correct the wording of your signature -- see below:

 

[Jos]

police said the registered owner of the BMW, who was not in the car, was charged with insurance fraud. Police said Takia Walk, 29, was arrested Sunday.

Baby born after Brooklyn hit-and-run dies in hospital | World news | guardian.co.uk

A baby delivered after his parents were killed in a Brooklyn hit-and-run accident has died, a spokesman for the religious community said Monday.

Isaac Abraham, spokesman for the Nachman and Raizy Glauber's Orthodox Jewish community, said their child died around 5:30 a.m. Monday.

The boy, who will be named and circumcised following religious traditions

Infant born after hit-and-run deaths of parents dies | Cincinnati.com | cincinnati.com

 

[emilynghiem]

Why did the BMW driver flee the scene?

Because he thought he had killed people and fled because he didn't want to get caught? Same reason most people flee the scene of a hit and run.

If they own the car, they can be traced anyway. I understand why other people are posting speculations that either (a) the driver could have been intoxicated, where it is common for drivers to run off and come back later after their BAL or any drugs in their system cannot be confirmed (b) the car could be stolen or the people have warrants or other illegal status.

The people who would have enough legal knowledge to know they could get out of proving they were or weren't "the ones driving the car" by fleeing would also know that fleeing the scene would get them in more trouble. So I am guessing it is "more likely" the people already had some other criminal issue, whether it was outstanding warrants, theft or DUI.

Regardless of the reasons and motivations behind the accident,
it seems clear this thread is being used to compare and analyze
the reasons behind people's thinking and postings.

So I hope we do become more sensitive and aware from our interactions here, and maybe we can prevent cultural conflicts from becoming crash-course collisions in the future.

please take care and may we all come away with more compassion for others than before

 

[novasteve]

Nypd seeks Julio Acevedo, the driver of the bmw

 

[emilynghiem]

The kid deserves a happy life - what kind of life can a child have when his religion forbids him from having contact with the outside world?

Your so ignorant it's amazing! The religion does say that and many Orthodox children live wonderful lives. Sabath is the day of rest, where Orthodox Jews don't drive or use any electronics, including phones. I don't get it and wouldn't preach practing it, but I would gloat the death of two parents by a drunk drive as a bad thing.

These parents at least had morals, you simply lack, that makes them better than you!

I think it's that whole morals thing that bothers libs the most.

It's not that liberals have no morals, but if they are thinking "relativistically"
then the moral principle being discussed or analyzed has to
(a) both apply to that person "personally" where it makes sense in their terms
(not just imposed from outside by some external source or influence)
(b) and also be "universal" for all people at the same time if you are going to argue
all people should follow it


It takes longer or more contextual backgrounds to explain and establish
a rule of law as "universal" to someone taking a relativistic approach, where the goal
is to be universal and specific at the same time, to accommodate diversity yet still
have unity without compromising one for the other.

The GOOD news is that once an understanding and agreement is reached, then that same
person will share that knowledge in a "relativistic way" with people of diverse backgrounds.

I go through this process all the time, because I relate to liberals
and have invested a lot of effort translating between conservative
principles and explaining them in liberal contexts to people who think outside the box.

It takes me longer to assimilate and align with people, but once we make those connections, then we can communicate and work across cultural political and religious lines so it is worth the extra effort it took to build to that point!

 

[gallantwarrior]

Your so ignorant it's amazing! The religion does say that and many Orthodox children live wonderful lives. Sabath is the day of rest, where Orthodox Jews don't drive or use any electronics, including phones. I don't get it and wouldn't preach practing it, but I would gloat the death of two parents by a drunk drive as a bad thing.

These parents at least had morals, you simply lack, that makes them better than you!

I think it's that whole morals thing that bothers libs the most.

It's not that liberals have no morals, but if they are thinking "relativistically"
then the moral principle being discussed or analyzed has to
(a) both apply to that person "personally" where it makes sense in their terms
(not just imposed from outside by some external source or influence)
(b) and also be "universal" for all people at the same time if you are going to argue
all people should follow it


It takes longer or more contextual backgrounds to explain and establish
a rule of law as "universal" to someone taking a relativistic approach, where the goal
is to be universal and specific at the same time, to accommodate diversity yet still
have unity without compromising one for the other.

The GOOD news is that once an understanding and agreement is reached, then that same
person will share that knowledge in a "relativistic way" with people of diverse backgrounds.

I go through this process all the time, because I relate to liberals
and have invested a lot of effort translating between conservative
principles and explaining them in liberal contexts to people who think outside the box.

It takes me longer to assimilate and align with people, but once we make those connections, then we can communicate and work across cultural political and religious lines so it is worth the extra effort it took to build to that point!

I find that I often am able to play devil's advocate on many issues. I can see why liberals might think relativistically about some issues. What bothers me is the apparent hypocrisy they bring with those opinions.
Case in point: because the couple who died in this horrible accident had chosen a different lifestyle, a path that some (in this case, Noomi) might not choose, their child is assumed to be raised in an unhappy environment. Hasidim are a close-knit cultural/religious group, and they adhere pretty strictly to a very (biblically) moral code. Some people who have eschewed religiously-driven moral codes reject, out-of-hand, anything or anyone that do not. Yet, the very same people who would condemn one group of people for their beliefs are the loudest, most obnoxious when they feel their beliefs have been trammeled.

 

[Pogo]

I think it's that whole morals thing that bothers libs the most.

It's not that liberals have no morals, but if they are thinking "relativistically"
then the moral principle being discussed or analyzed has to
(a) both apply to that person "personally" where it makes sense in their terms
(not just imposed from outside by some external source or influence)
(b) and also be "universal" for all people at the same time if you are going to argue
all people should follow it


It takes longer or more contextual backgrounds to explain and establish
a rule of law as "universal" to someone taking a relativistic approach, where the goal
is to be universal and specific at the same time, to accommodate diversity yet still
have unity without compromising one for the other.

The GOOD news is that once an understanding and agreement is reached, then that same
person will share that knowledge in a "relativistic way" with people of diverse backgrounds.

I go through this process all the time, because I relate to liberals
and have invested a lot of effort translating between conservative
principles and explaining them in liberal contexts to people who think outside the box.

It takes me longer to assimilate and align with people, but once we make those connections, then we can communicate and work across cultural political and religious lines so it is worth the extra effort it took to build to that point!

I find that I often am able to play devil's advocate on many issues. I can see why liberals might think relativistically about some issues. What bothers me is the apparent hypocrisy they bring with those opinions.
Case in point: because the couple who died in this horrible accident had chosen a different lifestyle, a path that some (in this case, Noomi) might not choose, their child is assumed to be raised in an unhappy environment. Hasidim are a close-knit cultural/religious group, and they adhere pretty strictly to a very (biblically) moral code. Some people who have eschewed religiously-driven moral codes reject, out-of-hand, anything or anyone that do not. Yet, the very same people who would condemn one group of people for their beliefs are the loudest, most obnoxious when they feel their beliefs have been trammeled.

Sorry GW, but taking the personal shortsightedness of one person and extrapolating it to an entire side of the political spectrum is absurd. This is why hasty generalization is a fallacy.

 

[Pogo]

Nypd seeks Julio Acevedo, the driver of the bmw

(no link)

How do they know who the driver was if they don't have him?

But I guess this is progress; now we can say "WASP police seek Hispanic Driver who Killed Jewish Couple".

Btw "BMW" is an acronym. So is NYPD.