Don't like Obama, fine, but why the dishonesty?

[Dr.House]

Has anyone figured out what the "dishonesty" accusations were about from the shitbag author of this thread? I gave up on this whine fest.

It was a version of leave 0bama alone and STFU. Poor guy can't catch a break with Ayers and Wright. He is just trying to help the economy. Blah, blah, blah.

You can't put the country into a $14b. deficit and "help" the economy Dr Gregg. You also will not win a war with a planned exit date. Can't make people buy insurance either.

This post is precisely the sort of dishonesty he's talking about.

Obama didn't "Put" the country in a $14t deficit. It was over $11t when he walked in, and the economy was in shambles... Tax revenues were waaaaay down due to stagnating economic activity. ANYONE elected would be facing a massive deficit right now. Also the federal debt now, today, is $12.5t, not 14...

The answer is not to make it worse by "reforming" healthcare... We can't afford the bloated plan being considered, which Barry wants an up or down vote on...

Just can't pay for it... The money tree is barren... This parrot is no more...

 

[saveliberty]

Has anyone figured out what the "dishonesty" accusations were about from the shitbag author of this thread? I gave up on this whine fest.

It was a version of leave 0bama alone and STFU. Poor guy can't catch a break with Ayers and Wright. He is just trying to help the economy. Blah, blah, blah.

You can't put the country into a $14b. deficit and "help" the economy Dr Gregg. You also will not win a war with a planned exit date. Can't make people buy insurance either.

This post is precisely the sort of dishonesty he's talking about.

Obama didn't "Put" the country in a $14t deficit. It was over $11t when he walked in, and the economy was in shambles... Tax revenues were waaaaay down due to stagnating economic activity. ANYONE elected would be facing a massive deficit right now. Also the federal debt now, today, is $12.5t, not 14...

He signed a budget bill which places the ceiling at $14b. Adding 21% is okay by you? You admit he is halfway to the goal huh? Gee, it only took a little over a year with almost three to go. Leadership starts with taking responsibility. You Dr Gregg's agent now? Speak for yourself and no one else.

 

[Charles Stucker]

There are plenty things that people could find Obama not doing a good job in.

You mean like trying to foist socialized medicine down our throats?
That's bad news all around.
Or perhaps you mean his inability ot control the US debt - which is growing ever faster under his direction than ever before.
OR are you referring to his personal excesses while calling for Americans to tighten their belts?

You are right there are a lot of valid complaints about Obama.

 

[Cuyo]

It was a version of leave 0bama alone and STFU. Poor guy can't catch a break with Ayers and Wright. He is just trying to help the economy. Blah, blah, blah.

You can't put the country into a $14b. deficit and "help" the economy Dr Gregg. You also will not win a war with a planned exit date. Can't make people buy insurance either.

This post is precisely the sort of dishonesty he's talking about.

Obama didn't "Put" the country in a $14t deficit. It was over $11t when he walked in, and the economy was in shambles... Tax revenues were waaaaay down due to stagnating economic activity. ANYONE elected would be facing a massive deficit right now. Also the federal debt now, today, is $12.5t, not 14...

He signed a budget bill which places the ceiling at $14b. Adding 21% is okay by you? You admit he is halfway to the goal huh? Gee, it only took a little over a year with almost three to go. Leadership starts with taking responsibility. You Dr Gregg's agent now? Speak for yourself and no one else.

Oh gosh, sorry.

Unrelated to Dr Gregg - What you said is dishonest. This mantra the Cons are propelling around that Obama is somehow responsible for the recession - Is dishonest. All this huffing and stomping about Marxism and socialism - Is dishonest. Suggesting that Obama alone is responsible for the deficit - Is dishonest. Claiming the healthcare bill is too expensive (it's budget-positive by CBO analysis) - Is dishonest. Claiming that it covers illegal aliens, pays for abortions - dishonest. Conflating raising the debt ceiling with actually increasing national debt as you just did - dishonest.

This is just me talking and has nothing to do with Dr. Gregg.
But I fully understand what the man is saying. Stick to what the man has actually done, there is no need to exaggerate what he's done, or blame him for things you perceive he will do, but hasn't actually done yet.

 

[Claudette]

Because he is a socialist/marxist who surounds himself with his fellow radicals in the highest levels of government. He thinks he is the messiah. And he is actively destroying America.

We have one of two things we must conclude from Obama's policies:

1) He is a complete moron who doesnt realize that it's unwise to spend more than we bring in, that giving money to special interests who got him elected is stimulus, that we should raise taxes and go into deeper debt to get out of the economy when anyone with half a brain realizes that will make things worse.

or

2) He is doing it on purpose knowing full well what his policies will do.

And while i certainly dont believe he is as smart as some people on this board, i dont think the man is an idiot.

Wrong. There's one other possibility to conclude from his policies, and that's that he truly believes that they're a good thing for America in the vision he has for America. In his mind, America is unjust and unfair in some aspects and it's his job to change that; America selected him to fix the wrongs, etc.

Total speculation, but i'm guessing that he's a bit taken aback with the poll numbers opposing many of his policies. He may have thought that people were ready for his major policy change by virtue of his strong victory, when in reality, a lot of people were just disenfranchised with the republicans while Obama ran a great campaign.

Way to go, you have managed to cram every bit of SPAM that low-information dopes are spewing nationwide into a single post!



Since you're clearly brilliant, clearly the smartest person on this board and maybe in the country, why don't you enlighten us as to Mr. Obama's intended ends?

We already know that he hates America and hates freedom, shucks, that's a given. So in addition to his vast conspiracy to destroy Christmas, what else does he want to do, and who is really behind all of it? Does he want to turn us into a totalitarian communist state just for the power, or is it because he actually hates all of us?

It's hard to argue that his policies don't result in less freedom, assuming you and I can agree that freedom is basically defined as the ability to do what you want, when you want. Obamacare is a gigantic restructuring of the health insurance industry which i believe would end up in a drastic shift toward universal health care. Taken explicitly, it forces you to buy a product or be fined. If that's not a direct denial of freedom, then i'm not sure what is.

Do i think he detests Americans in general? No. But i do think he acts like a baby and does a horrible job of handling any criticism, and that he places his wants/needs/beliefs above those of the American people. How else would you explain the increased combativeness and effort to push Obamacare when a clear majority of Americans (according to polls) have said they don't want it? For christ's sake, the guy is out on the campaign trail saying "we" need to "fight" for Obamacare. Who the hell is "we" when he's the president of Americans who, once again, have spoken out against what he's pushing. He's basically campaigning and fighting against a majority of Americans in that regard. Surely you can see how some people would interpret that, right?

I tend to agree with you Guy.

Barry is an ideologue. He thinks he's doing right for the country and he did say he wanted to change America. What he doesn't seem to grasp is that America has always been a Center Right country and his leftest views are not going to go over well at all. The spread the wealth bs ain't going to go over well either. People want reform in HC, not a Govt takeover of same.

I believe he is probably flabbergasted that America isn't just falling all over themselves to back his agenda especially after the high he must have had when he was elected.

Reality does suck sometimes.

 

[Cuyo]

There are plenty things that people could find Obama not doing a good job in.

You mean like trying to foist socialized medicine down our throats?
That's bad news all around.
Or perhaps you mean his inability ot control the US debt - which is growing ever faster under his direction than ever before.
OR are you referring to his personal excesses while calling for Americans to tighten their belts?

You are right there are a lot of valid complaints about Obama.

Oh there's a socialized medicine bill on the table as well? I was only aware of the reform bill that rests the entire she-bang on the private sector and changes some of the regulations.

When did this socialized medicine bill start being discussed?

 

[Titanic Sailor]

This post is precisely the sort of dishonesty he's talking about.

Obama didn't "Put" the country in a $14t deficit. It was over $11t when he walked in, and the economy was in shambles... Tax revenues were waaaaay down due to stagnating economic activity. ANYONE elected would be facing a massive deficit right now. Also the federal debt now, today, is $12.5t, not 14...

So we received Obama's support for TARP, the AIG bonuses, GM bailout where they could walk away from their environmental disaster sites, the Porkulus ripoff to stave off government reform at the expense of our children's future, 9000 earmarks, staying in Iraq, ramping up Afghanistan to go fight a drug war against people who eat dirt, 700 million in drug and insurance industry cash to get the corrupt health care bill through whether the people want it or not, no government reform, no adjustment to federal salaries, raised the debt ceiling again which makes a balanced budget chatter complete nonsense, and sitting back and watching America's people review the absolute decline of our nation.

Obama purposely chose to harm and ignore the plight of our people. Anyone who denies that is completely dishonest. We weren't going to fix Bush by maintaining and exceeding his failures, and that's the truth.

 

[Oldandtired]

There are plenty things that people could find Obama not doing a good job in.

You mean like trying to foist socialized medicine down our throats?
That's bad news all around.
Or perhaps you mean his inability ot control the US debt - which is growing ever faster under his direction than ever before.
OR are you referring to his personal excesses while calling for Americans to tighten their belts?

You are right there are a lot of valid complaints about Obama.

True...and although I disagree with Doc's approach as it is quite hypocritical, the premise of his post is correct....

and no, I do not feel saying that he has not kept his promises is an example of this because whereas he may have accomplished things, his core promises...his mantra.....his campaign legacy....was to change the way Washington does things....no lobbyists, no back room deals, cut spending with a scapel, post bills on line for 5 days....those promises were promises that only ONE PERSON can break...and that is him...He can wait 5 days before signing....HE chooses who is in the WH....he can veto a bill with spending....he, himself conducted the backroom deals.....so that is not an example in my eyes.....that is justified criticism...and those that say he was not able to do those things as they were too difficult are Obama synmpathizers...

But....

Calling him an America hater...a Marxist....a non citizen......those are unwarranted and cloud the legitimate criticisms......

 

[Coyote]

This post is precisely the sort of dishonesty he's talking about.

Obama didn't "Put" the country in a $14t deficit. It was over $11t when he walked in, and the economy was in shambles... Tax revenues were waaaaay down due to stagnating economic activity. ANYONE elected would be facing a massive deficit right now. Also the federal debt now, today, is $12.5t, not 14...

So we received Obama's support for TARP, the AIG bonuses, GM bailout where they could walk away from their environmental disaster sites, the Porkulus ripoff to stave off government reform at the expense of our children's future, 9000 earmarks, staying in Iraq, ramping up Afghanistan to go fight a drug war against people who eat dirt, 700 million in drug and insurance industry cash to get the corrupt health care bill through whether the people want it or not, no government reform, no adjustment to federal salaries, raised the debt ceiling again which makes a balanced budget chatter complete nonsense, and sitting back and watching America's people review the absolute decline of our nation.

Obama purposely chose to harm and ignore the plight of our people. Anyone who denies that is completely dishonest. We weren't going to fix Bush by maintaining and exceeding his failures, and that's the truth.

TARP preceeded Obama.

Where did he support AIG?

 

[Oldandtired]

There are plenty things that people could find Obama not doing a good job in.

You mean like trying to foist socialized medicine down our throats?
That's bad news all around.
Or perhaps you mean his inability ot control the US debt - which is growing ever faster under his direction than ever before.
OR are you referring to his personal excesses while calling for Americans to tighten their belts?

You are right there are a lot of valid complaints about Obama.

Oh there's a socialized medicine bill on the table as well? I was only aware of the reform bill that rests the entire she-bang on the private sector and changes some of the regulations.

When did this socialized medicine bill start being discussed?

Saying that one MUST purchase something or be penalized fiancially by the federal government is most certainly a step in that direction and completely unprecedented.

 

[Oldandtired]

This post is precisely the sort of dishonesty he's talking about.

Obama didn't "Put" the country in a $14t deficit. It was over $11t when he walked in, and the economy was in shambles... Tax revenues were waaaaay down due to stagnating economic activity. ANYONE elected would be facing a massive deficit right now. Also the federal debt now, today, is $12.5t, not 14...

So we received Obama's support for TARP, the AIG bonuses, GM bailout where they could walk away from their environmental disaster sites, the Porkulus ripoff to stave off government reform at the expense of our children's future, 9000 earmarks, staying in Iraq, ramping up Afghanistan to go fight a drug war against people who eat dirt, 700 million in drug and insurance industry cash to get the corrupt health care bill through whether the people want it or not, no government reform, no adjustment to federal salaries, raised the debt ceiling again which makes a balanced budget chatter complete nonsense, and sitting back and watching America's people review the absolute decline of our nation.

Obama purposely chose to harm and ignore the plight of our people. Anyone who denies that is completely dishonest. We weren't going to fix Bush by maintaining and exceeding his failures, and that's the truth.

TARP preceeded Obama.

Where did he support AIG?

Are you not aware that he signed INTO LAW the bonuses for the AIG executives?

 

[Titanic Sailor]

Now you people be good little sheep and give the government 40% at least of your paycheck, and start thinking of a way to tell the little baby in your house they owe Uncle Sam 40 grand before they get out of diapers. Welcome to America kid.

 

[Cuyo]

Calling him an America hater...a Marxist....a non citizen......those are unwarranted and cloud the legitimate criticisms......

And that's the topic of the discussion. It was big of you to admit that, knowing that you dislike the man so much. Seriously, I'm not being a dick.

 

[Coyote]

You mean like trying to foist socialized medicine down our throats?
That's bad news all around.
Or perhaps you mean his inability ot control the US debt - which is growing ever faster under his direction than ever before.
OR are you referring to his personal excesses while calling for Americans to tighten their belts?

You are right there are a lot of valid complaints about Obama.

Oh there's a socialized medicine bill on the table as well? I was only aware of the reform bill that rests the entire she-bang on the private sector and changes some of the regulations.

When did this socialized medicine bill start being discussed?

Saying that one MUST purchase something or be penalized fiancially by the federal government is most certainly a step in that direction and completely unprecedented.

I think it is less a step towards "socialized" medicine then a step towards controling costs and maintaining private insurance options. You can't control healthcare costs and expect the health insurance industry to pick up pre-existing conditions without some way to pay for it and the best way is probably having everyone buy insurance so you have a large enough pool of healthy people who incur few costs to pay for the sicker people. I'm not sure I like it but I'm not seeing any better ideas put forth.

 

[Titanic Sailor]

Oh ya, TARP accountability, how did that go for Obama? Whatever, the main point is Obama deliberately chose the path against our nation and her people. We all know what he needed to do whether anyone wants to admit it or not, and that was to curtail government spending massively, and make the harsh cuts the entire nation has made, except Washington DC.

Maybe the next President we have will have a scrotum.

 

[saveliberty]

This post is precisely the sort of dishonesty he's talking about.

Obama didn't "Put" the country in a $14t deficit. It was over $11t when he walked in, and the economy was in shambles... Tax revenues were waaaaay down due to stagnating economic activity. ANYONE elected would be facing a massive deficit right now. Also the federal debt now, today, is $12.5t, not 14...

He signed a budget bill which places the ceiling at $14b. Adding 21% is okay by you? You admit he is halfway to the goal huh? Gee, it only took a little over a year with almost three to go. Leadership starts with taking responsibility. You Dr Gregg's agent now? Speak for yourself and no one else.

Oh gosh, sorry.

Unrelated to Dr Gregg - What you said is dishonest. This mantra the Cons are propelling around that Obama is somehow responsible for the recession - Is dishonest. All this huffing and stomping about Marxism and socialism - Is dishonest. Suggesting that Obama alone is responsible for the deficit - Is dishonest. Claiming the healthcare bill is too expensive (it's budget-positive by CBO analysis) - Is dishonest. Claiming that it covers illegal aliens, pays for abortions - dishonest. Conflating raising the debt ceiling with actually increasing national debt as you just did - dishonest.

This is just me talking and has nothing to do with Dr. Gregg.
But I fully understand what the man is saying. Stick to what the man has actually done, there is no need to exaggerate what he's done, or blame him for things you perceive he will do, but hasn't actually done yet.

responsible for the recession - I didn't make that claim. Seems a little dishonest on your part.

socialism - government ownership of banks and auto companies is a long way toward socialism.

Obama alone is responsible for the deficit - I never made this claim. Flat out dishonest. He alone CAN refuse to sign bills which ALLOW it to grow.

healthcare bill is too expensive (it's budget-positive by CBO analysis) - The bill is very expensive. Correct me if wrong, but I thought the latest version was still awaiting a CBO review. Might be a little dishonest on your part.

pays for abortions - Apparently ambiguous enough that the House added an amendment to cover the possibility.

Conflating raising the debt ceiling with actually increasing national debt as you just did-dishonest. - Your suggesting that the budget Obama approved didn't increase the national debt? No conflating there Cuyo, just reporting the facts. Clearly not being honest on your part.

 

[Charles Stucker]

When did this socialized medicine bill start being discussed?

When they tried to pass a 1200 page bill on health care.
Read the entire thing front to back and you should be able to spot the socialism.

 

[Oldandtired]

Calling him an America hater...a Marxist....a non citizen......those are unwarranted and cloud the legitimate criticisms......

And that's the topic of the discussion. It was big of you to admit that, knowing that you dislike the man so much. Seriously, I'm not being a dick.

LMAO....how did you know that I like referring to assholes as dicks?

No, it was not big of me....and I dont dislike the man. To the contrary, I admire what he has accomplished in life and very much admire his family. I dislike his campaign approach, his arrogance as a leader, and his governing style.

And yes, he and I come from two different ideologies.

Is he a Marxist? Dammed if I know......heck....I know so little about Marxism, I would be foolish to try to refute or support that argument.

Is he a US citizen? I certainly hope so....he IS the POTUS you know.

Is he a liar? Yes, I knew that the day he admitted to lying about public financing...but as most would say....can you name a politician that doesnt lie?

 

[Coyote]

So we received Obama's support for TARP, the AIG bonuses, GM bailout where they could walk away from their environmental disaster sites, the Porkulus ripoff to stave off government reform at the expense of our children's future, 9000 earmarks, staying in Iraq, ramping up Afghanistan to go fight a drug war against people who eat dirt, 700 million in drug and insurance industry cash to get the corrupt health care bill through whether the people want it or not, no government reform, no adjustment to federal salaries, raised the debt ceiling again which makes a balanced budget chatter complete nonsense, and sitting back and watching America's people review the absolute decline of our nation.

Obama purposely chose to harm and ignore the plight of our people. Anyone who denies that is completely dishonest. We weren't going to fix Bush by maintaining and exceeding his failures, and that's the truth.

TARP preceeded Obama.

Where did he support AIG?

Are you not aware that he signed INTO LAW the bonuses for the AIG executives?

I don't think it was because he approved of it....what legal avenue could he use to stop it? And if he had - would that have been good? Dispicable as it is - does the government have the right to tell business' how much they can pay their employees maximum? Correct me if I'm wrong but - weren't these bonus' negotiated some time ago...can you just break those contracts?

and TARP?

 

[Oldandtired]

Oh there's a socialized medicine bill on the table as well? I was only aware of the reform bill that rests the entire she-bang on the private sector and changes some of the regulations.

When did this socialized medicine bill start being discussed?

Saying that one MUST purchase something or be penalized fiancially by the federal government is most certainly a step in that direction and completely unprecedented.

I think it is less a step towards "socialized" medicine then a step towards controling costs and maintaining private insurance options. You can't control healthcare costs and expect the health insurance industry to pick up pre-existing conditions without some way to pay for it and the best way is probably having everyone buy insurance so you have a large enough pool of healthy people who incur few costs to pay for the sicker people. I'm not sure I like it but I'm not seeing any better ideas put forth.

If it includes a government mandate to purchase something, then time must be spent looking at alternatives.

I can not speak for many, but I will speak for me...a conservative....

I am OK with we, the people, footing the bill for those that use the ER and do not have insurance. It is a price I am willing to pay in an efort to avoid government expansion and mandates to purchase something under penalty of law.

I want healthcare reform. I do not want liberty and freedom reform.