Don t Let Anybody Tell You That Businesses Create Jobs

[bripat9643]

You used the terms incorrectly. You're an idiot.

Wrong. When was the iPhone test marketed?

Please illustrate how I used the terms incorrectly.

The iPhone is constantly being test marketed.

Prove it.

 

[OnePercenter]

It's been proven wrong 100 times in this thread already.

I've seen a plethora of opinion, but no factual information.

 

[OnePercenter]

The "demand creates jobs" theory is an attempt to portray useless ticks on the ass of society as somehow beneficial and productive members of society. It's an attempt to turn mere consumption as something noble and to be admired.

Demand creating jobs isn't a theory, it's fact. Don't businesses hire for the holidays because of increased demand?

 

[OnePercenter]

Prove it.

Cognitive reasoning cross-dressing Canadian. There are TWO iPhone 6's. Why would Apple develop two if there weren't a demand?

 

[The Rabbi]

The "demand creates jobs" theory is an attempt to portray useless ticks on the ass of society as somehow beneficial and productive members of society. It's an attempt to turn mere consumption as something noble and to be admired.

Demand creating jobs isn't a theory, it's fact. Don't businesses hire for the holidays because of increased demand?

No. That is wrong.
They hire because they expect an increase in demand.
Again, you prove you know nothing about business.

 

[Mathbud1]

The real one. Not the one you've imagined.

Consumer demand creates jobs.

The Real Job Creators Consumers - Forbes

Read this link and learn something

Business does not create jobs. Jobs are created by consumer demand

First, as my friend Mike Norman has pointed out, employees are a cost, usually the most significant one faced by firms (Mike Norman Economics). For that reason, every rational entrepreneur’s goal is to reduce, not increase, the number of workers they have to pay.

This is easily refuted. If it were wholly true, the most desirable and profitable business would be the small mom and pop shop with zero employees. Instead we easily see that it is a broad oversimplification. Every rational entrepreneur's goal is to make the most money possible. The number of employees required to do that may be more or less than what the employer currently has, but without making any technological changes more employees will always have the potential of allowing greater wealth than fewer employees will.

Second and more fundamentally, no matter how much you lower costs, if you don’t have more customers, you won’t hire more workers.

This statement is also false. It assumes that the business is already able to meet all current demand for its products. That is not a given. Examples:

If a business' facilities are at capacity, hiring additional employees would require expanding their space by building, leasing, or purchasing additional space. Unless the business can afford the space, increased demand will still not enable them to hire more employees.

The same can be true of expensive manufacturing equipment required to produce the product. If the machinery is being used at fullest capacity, adding more employees will not allow you to create any more product.

Demand can increase beyond the capacity of the business, and cost can prevent the business from expanding to meet it. In such circumstances reduced costs will allow the business to expand capacity and hire additional employees to meet the current demand.

It's readily apparent that demand is only one of many factors that savvy businesses must consider before hiring additional workers.

Increased demand may have the potential to make creating more jobs profitable for a business but does not automatically do so, and does not, by itself, create any jobs. Jobs are created by rational and thinking people who hire employees when it is profitable to do so.

 

[The Rabbi]

The real one. Not the one you've imagined.

Consumer demand creates jobs.

The Real Job Creators Consumers - Forbes

Read this link and learn something

Business does not create jobs. Jobs are created by consumer demand

First, as my friend Mike Norman has pointed out, employees are a cost, usually the most significant one faced by firms (Mike Norman Economics). For that reason, every rational entrepreneur’s goal is to reduce, not increase, the number of workers they have to pay.

This is easily refuted. If it were wholly true, the most desirable and profitable business would be the small mom and pop shop with zero employees. Instead we easily see that it is a broad oversimplification. Every rational entrepreneur's goal is to make the most money possible. The number of employees required to do that may be more or less than what the employer currently has, but without making any technological changes more employees will always have the potential of allowing greater wealth than fewer employees will.

Second and more fundamentally, no matter how much you lower costs, if you don’t have more customers, you won’t hire more workers.

This statement is also false. It assumes that the business is already able to meet all current demand for its products. That is not a given. Examples:

If a business' facilities are at capacity, hiring additional employees would require expanding their space by building, leasing, or purchasing additional space. Unless the business can afford the space, increased demand will still not enable them to hire more employees.

The same can be true of expensive manufacturing equipment required to produce the product. If the machinery is being used at fullest capacity, adding more employees will not allow you to create any more product.

Demand can increase beyond the capacity of the business, and cost can prevent the business from expanding to meet it. In such circumstances reduced costs will allow the business to expand capacity and hire additional employees to meet the current demand.

It's readily apparent that demand is only one of many factors that savvy businesses must consider before hiring additional workers.

Increased demand may have the potential to make creating more jobs profitable for a business but does not automatically do so, and does not, by itself, create any jobs. Jobs are created by rational and thinking people who hire employees when it is profitable to do so.

Gee, it sounds like you might actually have taken a "Masters in Business from Columbia" unlike some posters who merely claim it.
Nice post.

 

[RKMBrown]

I have lots of jobs to be done around the ranch here. I don't plan on hiring anyone till after Obama's been fired. I'll probably do some of the jobs myself. I won't be hiring or paying myself to do the jobs. I might even have one of my boys do some of these jobs. Either way the job "exists" as a task to be done. And it will be done. Your definition of job, might be what government thinks they are but it is not what I think it is. Further I might actually do some bartering for some of these jobs. Screw govco.

For the purposes of this discussion I would have to say that a job is only created if a person is hired or sought to fill a paying position. Economically speaking, that's what we're talking about.

If you have more work to accomplish and simply require those you already employ to do that additional work or just do the work yourself a job has not been created as far as the economy is concerned.

That's why demand can't be said to create jobs, because it doesn't. Higher demand may mean that a business has more work to accomplish to meet the demand, but until the company hires another worker a job has not been created. The company, based on costs, may decide that hiring another worker just isn't feasible. They may decide to increase the workload of the existing employees, invest in ways to increase efficiency, or simply opt out of meeting the higher demand at all. In all such cases demand rose but no new job was created. In the case of investing in increased efficiency some jobs may even be eliminated.

Yes... and no. If an artist paints a picture and no one paid him for it.. it's not a job, but it becomes a job when paid? If I build a fence that increases the value of my home but I don't sell the home does it effect the economy? Hint: The US government counts the value of our homes if they were being rented as GDP. So in effect jobs that do not have any wages whatsoever attached are ... in fact contributing to the measured economy. Further, this government also counts increased productivity...

You are talking about the narrow class of jobs for employees of employers.

In neither case with the artist.
Physicists have a definition of work
Economists have a definition of work
You have a definition of work
They are all different. You dont create jobs just because you look out and see work that needs to be done.

If it's not a job why do artists have to pay income tax?
Wrt your statement that "you dont create jobs just because you look out and see work that needs to be done." That's not true, that is exactly how many jobs are created. Work needs to be done... someone decides to pay for the work... and becomes an employer if they find an employee to do the work.

Do you have your head up your ass?
What kind of job is "artist"? If you are a graphic designer for a company, that is a job. If you paint because you like it and sell some pictures sometimes that isnt a job.
It isnt a job until someone creates a job. The work does not create the job. The employer creates the job.

What kind of job is artist? ARTIST
Yes artist is a job. So is author.
Why can't work create a job? Are you mentally handicapped?
Have you never looked in the dictionary to see what words mean?

 

[Roadrunner]

The "demand creates jobs" theory is an attempt to portray useless ticks on the ass of society as somehow beneficial and productive members of society. It's an attempt to turn mere consumption as something noble and to be admired.

Demand creating jobs isn't a theory, it's fact. Don't businesses hire for the holidays because of increased demand?

No, demand increases because the evile corporations open the stores on holidays so as to dupe the Grubercrats.

 

[OnePercenter]

No. That is wrong.
They hire because they expect an increase in demand.
Again, you prove you know nothing about business.

They hire because there is demand.

 

[Mathbud1]

The real one. Not the one you've imagined.

Consumer demand creates jobs.

The Real Job Creators Consumers - Forbes

Read this link and learn something

Business does not create jobs. Jobs are created by consumer demand

First, as my friend Mike Norman has pointed out, employees are a cost, usually the most significant one faced by firms (Mike Norman Economics). For that reason, every rational entrepreneur’s goal is to reduce, not increase, the number of workers they have to pay.

This is easily refuted. If it were wholly true, the most desirable and profitable business would be the small mom and pop shop with zero employees. Instead we easily see that it is a broad oversimplification. Every rational entrepreneur's goal is to make the most money possible. The number of employees required to do that may be more or less than what the employer currently has, but without making any technological changes more employees will always have the potential of allowing greater wealth than fewer employees will.

Second and more fundamentally, no matter how much you lower costs, if you don’t have more customers, you won’t hire more workers.

This statement is also false. It assumes that the business is already able to meet all current demand for its products. That is not a given. Examples:

If a business' facilities are at capacity, hiring additional employees would require expanding their space by building, leasing, or purchasing additional space. Unless the business can afford the space, increased demand will still not enable them to hire more employees.

The same can be true of expensive manufacturing equipment required to produce the product. If the machinery is being used at fullest capacity, adding more employees will not allow you to create any more product.

Demand can increase beyond the capacity of the business, and cost can prevent the business from expanding to meet it. In such circumstances reduced costs will allow the business to expand capacity and hire additional employees to meet the current demand.

It's readily apparent that demand is only one of many factors that savvy businesses must consider before hiring additional workers.

Increased demand may have the potential to make creating more jobs profitable for a business but does not automatically do so, and does not, by itself, create any jobs. Jobs are created by rational and thinking people who hire employees when it is profitable to do so.

Gee, it sounds like you might actually have taken a "Masters in Business from Columbia" unlike some posters who merely claim it.
Nice post.

Thank you.

I do plan on getting a Master's (since my employer offers tuition reimbursement), and business would be a good generally applicable degree to get. I might opt for a more technology related program though since it would be more specifically applicable to my field.

Fortunately rationality is not limited to those who have advanced degrees.

Unfortunately it is not guaranteed in those who do.

 

[RKMBrown]

Yes... and no. If an artist paints a picture and no one paid him for it.. it's not a job, but it becomes a job when paid? If I build a fence that increases the value of my home but I don't sell the home does it effect the economy? Hint: The US government counts the value of our homes if they were being rented as GDP. So in effect jobs that do not have any wages whatsoever attached are ... in fact contributing to the measured economy. Further, this government also counts increased productivity...

You are talking about the narrow class of jobs for employees of employers. But that narrow class is not the whole story. Sometimes you have to look outside the binder of an econ book to see the rest of the story.

Isn't that income?

No it's potential income.

 

[OnePercenter]

This is easily refuted. If it were wholly true, the most desirable and profitable business would be the small mom and pop shop with zero employees. Instead we easily see that it is a broad oversimplification. Every rational entrepreneur's goal is to make the most money possible. The number of employees required to do that may be more or less than what the employer currently has, but without making any technological changes more employees will always have the potential of allowing greater wealth than fewer employees will.

Second and more fundamentally, no matter how much you lower costs, if you don’t have more customers, you won’t hire more workers.

This statement is also false. It assumes that the business is already able to meet all current demand for its products. That is not a given. Examples:

If a business' facilities are at capacity, hiring additional employees would require expanding their space by building, leasing, or purchasing additional space. Unless the business can afford the space, increased demand will still not enable them to hire more employees.

The same can be true of expensive manufacturing equipment required to produce the product. If the machinery is being used at fullest capacity, adding more employees will not allow you to create any more product.

Demand can increase beyond the capacity of the business, and cost can prevent the business from expanding to meet it. In such circumstances reduced costs will allow the business to expand capacity and hire additional employees to meet the current demand.

It's readily apparent that demand is only one of many factors that savvy businesses must consider before hiring additional workers.

Increased demand may have the potential to make creating more jobs profitable for a business but does not automatically do so, and does not, by itself, create any jobs. Jobs are created by rational and thinking people who hire employees when it is profitable to do so.

The issue is Demand Creates Jobs, not managing growth.

 

[OnePercenter]

Thank you.

I do plan on getting a Master's (since my employer offers tuition reimbursement), and business would be a good generally applicable degree to get. I might opt for a more technology related program though since it would be more specifically applicable to my field.

Fortunately rationality is not limited to those who have advanced degrees.

Unfortunately it is not guaranteed in those who do.

I dare you to title your Masters Thesis "Business Creates Jobs"

Just kidding!

Here's a billionaire to tell you you're wrong

What creates a company's jobs, Hanauer explains, is a healthy economic ecosystem surrounding the company, which starts with the company's customers.

Read more: Rich People Actually Don t Create The Jobs - Business Insider

 

[OnePercenter]

No it's potential income.

were being rented

Past tense

 

[RKMBrown]

Thank you.

I do plan on getting a Master's (since my employer offers tuition reimbursement), and business would be a good generally applicable degree to get. I might opt for a more technology related program though since it would be more specifically applicable to my field.

Fortunately rationality is not limited to those who have advanced degrees.

Unfortunately it is not guaranteed in those who do.

I dare you to title your Masters Thesis "Business Creates Jobs"

Just kidding!

Here's a billionaire to tell you you're wrong

What creates a company's jobs, Hanauer explains, is a healthy economic ecosystem surrounding the company, which starts with the company's customers.

Read more: Rich People Actually Don t Create The Jobs - Business Insider

Rich people own companies that create jobs. A company is just a piece of paper. A company is not a person. A company can't do things only people can do things.

 

[RKMBrown]

No it's potential income.

were being rented

Past tense

Past present. I said "as if they were being rented." They are not actually being rented. The government is making shit up to make the GDP larger than it actually is... that or they plan on renting us our homes.

 

[ninja007]

The 10 lowest ranked, or worst, states in this year’s Index are:
41. Iowa -Blue
42. Connecticut -Blue
43. Wisconsin -Blue
44. Ohio -Blue
45. Rhode Island -Blue
46. Vermont -Blue
47. Minnesota -Blue
48. California -Blue
49. New York -Blue
50. New Jersey -Blue (and full of Democrud Kool-Aid drinkers)

The 10 best states in this year’s Index are:
1. Wyoming -Red
2. South Dakota -Red
3. Nevada (Mostly Red)
4. Alaska -Red
5. Florida (Mostly Red)
6. Montana (Mostly Red)
7. New Hampshire (Ind)
8. Indiana -Red
9. Utah -Red
10. Texas -Red


LIBERAL STUPIDITY THE ANTI LIBERAL ZONE

 

[Mathbud1]

Thank you.

I do plan on getting a Master's (since my employer offers tuition reimbursement), and business would be a good generally applicable degree to get. I might opt for a more technology related program though since it would be more specifically applicable to my field.

Fortunately rationality is not limited to those who have advanced degrees.

Unfortunately it is not guaranteed in those who do.

I dare you to title your Masters Thesis "Business Creates Jobs"

Just kidding!

Here's a billionaire to tell you you're wrong

What creates a company's jobs, Hanauer explains, is a healthy economic ecosystem surrounding the company, which starts with the company's customers.

Read more: Rich People Actually Don t Create The Jobs - Business Insider

That article was much better written than the two previous articles you posted.

It gets much closer to the truth by acknowledging that the economy is a complex and interconnected system and not the vastly oversimplified demand-in-jobs-out system portrayed in the first two. In my opinion it still over emphasizes the role customers play in job creation within that system.

To continue the analogy from earlier, the demand is the fuel ready for consumption, but the fire won't start without a spark of ingenuity. The fire, once started, won't grow or continue without continued fuel (demand) and a maintained environment free of things like water that could quench the fire (unexpected costs) or sand which could smother the fire (overbearing regulations.) If the fire isn't tended well (good management) it could go out even with a ready supply of fuel standing by.

 

[OnePercenter]

[
That article was much better written than the two previous articles you posted.

It gets much closer to the truth by acknowledging that the economy is a complex and interconnected system and not the vastly oversimplified demand-in-jobs-out system portrayed in the first two. In my opinion it still over emphasizes the role customers play in job creation within that system.

To continue the analogy from earlier, the demand is the fuel ready for consumption, but the fire won't start without a spark of ingenuity. The fire, once started, won't grow or continue without continued fuel (demand) and a maintained environment free of things like water that could quench the fire (unexpected costs) or sand which could smother the fire (overbearing regulations.) If the fire isn't tended well (good management) it could go out even with a ready supply of fuel standing by.

And, demand causes job creation.