Zone1 Does the Human Soul have Consciousness?

[ding]

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14 quotes from The Complete Poems of D.H. Lawrence: ‘I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without e...

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I don't know if birds have emotional feelings. If they do, to what extent and how deep? Are they self-aware?

I wish I could read the mind of a wild animal. Would that make me a god messing with a soul?

George Wald responds:

Does a frog see? It reacts to light -- so does a photocell‑activated garage door. But does it know it is responding, is it aware of visual images?

There is nothing whatever that I can do as a scientist to answer that question. That is the problem of consciousness: it is altogether impervious to scientific approach.

 

[Dante]

George Wald responds:

Does a frog see? It reacts to light -- so does a photocell‑activated garage door. But does it know it is responding, is it aware of visual images?

There is nothing whatever that I can do as a scientist to answer that question. That is the problem of consciousness: it is altogether impervious to scientific approach.

My problem with that last sentence is how often things thought to be altogether impervious to scientific approach, ended up being scientifically examined.

Right now, since we don't even agree on what consciousness is, we're going in circles. But...

But if we go with what people here have claimed to be consciousness "mind / will / emotions / personality)?" We all know those things all exist in the brain (mind). Brain science can pinpoint where those things appear/generate..etc

 

[The Irish Ram]

I have heard many life after death accounts that challenge the notion that all there is, is a material universe, but usually people discount it as chemical reactions in the brain that cause people to have visions of a life to come

I was thinking of the account of a woman, blind since birth that had brain surgery for cancer, I believe. They had to shut her brain down completely. She left her body and when it was all over she described the tools that were used, the music that the surgeon was singing and they were wearing blue scrubs. She saw color.

I had an out of body experience in an ambulance, but never left the vehicle. When she heard them say my heart had stopped, my mother was contemplating just stepping right out of the ambulance. The instant I thought I needed to get back in that body, I was. And I tried to move my little finger to show her I was alive, but it was so heavy, I could move it. So I moaned.

 

[jackflash]

It is my understanding that consciousness (awareness of one's singularity) is a basic human trait which allows for the concept of an individual soul, something that transcends physical life. However, as a matter of brain function, consciousness ceases after death. The question I have is does some sort of consciousness remain with the human soul? If not, how would we be aware of any continuity after death, and whether that constituted a reward or punishment for our earthly behavior?

It seems to me that, without some continuing consciousness, we would never know if we had a soul, much less have any recognition of where our souls might ultimately reside. Has anyone else considered this potential dilemma? If so, what are your thoughts?

I certainly could be incorrect in my following evaluation but I will give it my best shot; the soul is like a VIN number is to a vehicle so Maker can identify the year & model number of his individual creations. Most likely our souls also carry all the vital statistics that were embedded in us during the manufacturing process like intelligence package, physical capabilities, longevity, overall performance, etc. I see the SPIRT as the power source(battery) that powers the physical creations. Disconnect the spirit/battery & the living creation goes dead. Hook up the spirit/battery & the spirit/creature comes to life.

How it all goes together & @ what steps are taken during the manufacturing/creation process the options etc. are installed at, is any ones guess. Then there has to be different assembly lines for other creatures so one can see this process could get complicated quickly. I try my best to simplify the process so it can @ least be understood by the average Joe @ the street level. The multi dimensional aspects of it all are best left to the theoretical physicists which have the brain power to @ least comprehend several other dimensions besides our own 3-1/2 dimensional continuum.

 

[Mister Iggy]

24:20

questioner:
"wondering about the potential measurement of Consciousness. I believe what we call Consciousness is an energy or Quantum equivalent that emerges, grows, expands, converts like other forms of energy or slash matter. It seems that as the universe expands, Consciousness is emerging as a natural result of the separation of all matter from its source over time. We likely need something to measure immersing Consciousness if it exists as some fundamental energy. What would we use to measure other forms of energy like Consciousness?"

... chatter

expert:
"There like many people agree with your belief, believe as you do that Consciousness must be something physical...There is not yet any scientific evidence to confirm that. If there were some way to measure it we'd be working on it right now. There have been studies for example where they tried to measure the mass of a soul, or a Consciousness based on uh, the mass of your body uh, or your brain before an event and after an event, in terms of Consciousness or unconsciousness, and there just hasn't been anything yet."



Mister Iggy buttercup toobfreak theHawk and ...

Existence can make anything appear or disappear. Thats all part of the show. So I’m sure someone, a scientist?, could develop a device to read a soul or consciousness, at some point.? Anything is possible.

 

[luiza]

It is my understanding that consciousness (awareness of one's singularity) is a basic human trait which allows for the concept of an individual soul, something that transcends physical life.

The Universe is consciousness .
End Of .

Just using plain logic :-
It is impossible for anything to exist without consciousness .

Shades of Bishop Berkeley for the erudite .

 

[ding]

My problem with that last sentence is how often things thought to be altogether impervious to scientific approach, ended up being scientifically examined.

Right now, since we don't even agree on what consciousness is, we're going in circles. But...

But if we go with what people here have claimed to be consciousness "mind / will / emotions / personality)?" We all know those things all exist in the brain (mind). Brain science can pinpoint where those things appear/generate..etc

Conscious involves all senses. It's your entire being. The sum of the parts. The mind is only one part.

 

[evenflow1969]

Lol, an argument on the unknowable, which is fine. How ever challenging the other side to prove it is hubris. Neither side can prove it. The reality is it will never be a settled issue. I am personally on the side of the soul. Seems prudent to live as if there is a God in either instance. Not willing to call either side stupid though.

 

[LibertyKid]

I have always found it interesting that humanity, as far back as human history can be traced, has always looked beyond the physical reality to some type of spirituality. Some say early man made 'gods' to explain natural phenomena, but why, why the concept of a greater being with no evidence to point to. Same with consciousness and the idea that beyond our physical world and our own physical death, we continue on. But why have early humans always, or most always, worshipped or believed in a supernatural or conscious reality beyond our own reality? Where did the concept originate from?

 

[Donald H]

As Paul said, "Absent from the body is present with the Lord." so that explains what plane we go to, And the Bible gives us a glimpse of some of the attributes of a soul. We look similar to what we looked like in life. We are recognizable as who we were. We can speak, we have tongues, we get thirsty, we remember.
Luke 16: 19-31

I said: Two hundred years ago and earlier the religious made the human brain the soul. It ceases to exist with the rest of the dead body.

You've quoted me saying that which I didn't say. I'll accept it as a mistake this time.

 

[Donald H]

It is my understanding soul is synonymous with spirit, and that human beings are composed of body, mind, and spirit. When one has a problem or a decision to make, the mind, based on knowledge, can present several choices. It is my understanding the 'essential me' (or spirit) makes the decision.

Are you saying that the mind presents the knowledge and choices, and then selects a choice?

That would appear to be true.

If that is so, why would the mind waste time presenting choices, why not just zero in the course of action it intends to take?

The mind does zero in on a course of action.

Also, if it is not the 'essential person/spirit' that makes the choice, why, when given choices, do minds of different humans select a variety of choices?

Different people select different choices but in 'general terms', most people select the right choice.

 

[Donald H]

I have always found it interesting that humanity, as far back as human history can be traced, has always looked beyond the physical reality to some type of spirituality. Some say early man made 'gods' to explain natural phenomena, but why, why the concept of a greater being with no evidence to point to. Same with consciousness and the idea that beyond our physical world and our own physical death, we continue on. But why have early humans always, or most always, worshipped or believed in a supernatural or conscious reality beyond our own reality? Where did the concept originate from?

Can we say that early man saw a bolt of lightning stride his partner dead and he realized that he witnessed a power greater than him?
And then he didn't have the capability to understand that it was a natural force he witnessed. Thus, a primitive god was born.

Can you make that explanation work for the modern Christian god?

 

[The Irish Ram]

I said: Two hundred years ago and earlier the religious made the human brain the soul. It ceases to exist with the rest of the dead body.

You've quoted me saying that which I didn't say. I'll accept it as a mistake this time.

I see what happen to that post. My sentence showed up as a quote from you and the quote again as mine. Not sure why, but I apologize for that. It wasn't intentional.

 

[Donald H]

I see what happen to that post. My sentence showed up as a quote from you and the quote again as mine. Not sure why, but I apologize for that. It wasn't intentional.

I accept it as accidental, so no need for an apology.

 

[LibertyKid]

Can we say that early man saw a bolt of lightning stride his partner dead and he realized that he witnessed a power greater than him?
And then he didn't have the capability to understand that it was a natural force he witnessed. Thus, a primitive god was born.

Can you make that explanation work for the modern Christian god?

It's called anthropomorphism or personification. But a step further if we may. Ancient human sees lightning strike another human. Prior to strike, no concept of a 'god' exists. I would argue that the lightning strike doesn't necessitate the concept of 'god' reasoning. Why can't not understanding be okay with ancient humans. I suppose, I would say that the concept of the supernatural and or spirituality, possibly has other origins outside of our inability to explain natural phenomenon.

One would also think that critics of the 'primitive god' reasoning also would have existed, demanding proof as well. But here we are, thousands and thousands of years, and spirituality and the idea of 'gods' continues on.

It's a very interesting topic, and I do believe there is merit that humankind, since it could transcribe thought, has always communicated a system of spirituality.

 

[Donald H]

It's called anthropomorphism or personification. But a step further if we may. Ancient human sees lightning strike another human. Prior to strike, no concept of a 'god' exists. I would argue that the lightning strike doesn't necessitate the concept of 'god' reasoning. Why can't not understanding be okay with ancient humans. I suppose, I would say that the concept of the supernatural and or spirituality, possibly has other origins outside of our inability to explain natural phenomenon.

One would also think that critics of the 'primitive god' reasoning also would have existed, demanding proof as well. But here we are, thousands and thousands of years, and spirituality and the idea of 'gods' continues on.

It's a very interesting topic, and I do believe there is merit that humankind, since it could transcribe thought, has always communicated a system of spirituality.

Did you ever see Von Danikan's, 'The Gods Must be Crazy'?

A coke bottle was dropped in Africa from an airplane. A native African picked it up and placed it on an altar, and it was worshipped! Yes, it's interesting!

 

[Dante]

Conscious involves all senses. It's your entire being. The sum of the parts. The mind is only one part.

If somebody loses a few of their senses, you're saying they've lost some consciousness?

If one lost a sense of smell. one would not be conscious of stinky thing? I know, people who have lost a sense .. they are aware of things from experience before losing the sense.

Consciousness and being conscious of something -- a few distinct differences there.

 

[LibertyKid]

Did you ever see Von Danikan's, 'The Gods Must be Crazy'?

A coke bottle was dropped in Africa from an airplane. A native African picked it up and placed it on an altar, and it was worshipped! Yes, it's interesting!

Never heard that story before, and I have watched many of the ancient alien stuff. Do you have a link to the story as I can't find one.

 

[Donald H]

Never heard that story before, and I have watched many of the ancient alien stuff. Do you have a link to the story as I can't find one.

Search the title. Along with VonDanikan. (sp?)

For you: The Gods Must Be Crazy (1980) 7.3 | Adventure, Comedy

 

[jwoodie]

Can you make that explanation work for the modern Christian god?

Please leave your Christian Derangement Syndrome at the door.