Do you support taxing unrealized gains (Poll)

[kyzr]

It's an interesting conversation we should have. As the article points out, that gain in an investment can be used as collateral to borrow money against to make more investments and thus grow one's wealth ad infinitum without ever paying any taxes.
It's a grossly unfair advantage.

Its called capitalism. Taking risks to grow the economy.

What is "unfair"? The borrowers pay interest on any loan.

******* communists only want to shrink the economy by taxing more.

 

[Resnic]

No because I don't want to pay annual taxes on money I am investing for when I'm old

 

[g5000]

Its called capitalism. Taking risks to grow the economy.

It's call crony capitalism. Using their advantaged position to grow their wealth without paying taxes.

What is "unfair"? The borrowers pay interest on any loan.

And that interest goes to the lender, not to taxes.

******* communists only want to shrink the economy by taxing more.

You probably think their wealth is trickling down, don't you.

 

[kyzr]

It's call crony capitalism. Using their advantaged position to grow their wealth without paying taxes.

And that interest goes to the lender, not to taxes.

You probably think their wealth is trickling down, don't you.

1. Its not crony capitalism. Crony capitalism regards unethical business practices. Not smart investing.

Crony capitalism​

Crony capitalism, sometimes also called simply cronyism, is a pejorative term used in political discourse to describe a situation in which businesses profit from a close relationship with state power, either through an anti-competitive regulatory environment, direct government largess, and/or corruption.

2. What advantaged position? Having money to invest? We all should have that in our 401Ks. We pay taxes when we cash the money out to spend. Taxing paper profits is bullshit.

3. Thats how borrowing works, you borrow, invest, pay interest, and then pay taxes on the profits, if any.

4. When they invest, that money gets put to use creating jobs. That's how it trickles down.

 

[g5000]

1. Its not crony capitalism. Crony capitalism regards unethical business practices. Not smart investing.

Crony capitalism​

Crony capitalism, sometimes also called simply cronyism, is a pejorative term used in political discourse to describe a situation in which businesses profit from a close relationship with state power, either through an anti-competitive regulatory environment, direct government largess, and/or corruption.

2. What advantaged position? Having money to invest? We all should have that in our 401Ks. We pay taxes when we cash the money out to spend. Taxing paper profits is bullshit.

3. Thats how borrowing works, you borrow, invest, pay interest, and then pay taxes on the profits, if any.

4. When they invest, that money gets put to use creating jobs. That's how it trickles down.

The fact is, a huge wealth gap has been created through legislation benefitting the wealthy.

The playing field is badly tilted, and so it is time to take Thomas Jefferson's words to heart. It is time for a serious reboot.

Equality: Thomas Jefferson to James Madison

The property of this country is absolutely concentered in a very few hands, having revenues of from half a million of guineas a year downwards.

[snip]


I asked myself what could be the reason that so many should be permitted to beg who are willing to work, in a country where there is a very considerable proportion of uncultivated lands?


[snip]


I am conscious that an equal division of property is impracticable. But the consequences of this enormous inequality producing so much misery to the bulk of mankind, legislators cannot invent too many devices for subdividing property, only taking care to let their subdivisions go hand in hand with the natural affections of the human mind.


[snip]


Another means of silently lessening the inequality of property is to exempt all from taxation below a certain point, and to tax the higher portions of property in geometrical progression as they rise.

[snip]

Whenever there is in any country, uncultivated lands and unemployed poor, it is clear that the laws of property have been so far extended as to violate natural right.



"The property of this country is absolutely concentered in a very few hands".

You can barely make out the bottom 50 percent in this graph. And they are the ones doing the hard work.

 

[kyzr]

The fact is, a huge wealth gap has been created through legislation benefiting the wealthy.
The playing field is badly tilted, and so it is time to take Thomas Jefferson's words to heart. It is time for a serious reboot.

Equality: Thomas Jefferson to James Madison

The property of this country is absolutely concentrated in a very few hands, having revenues of from half a million of guineas a year downwards.
I asked myself what could be the reason that so many should be permitted to beg who are willing to work, in a country where there is a very considerable proportion of uncultivated lands?

I am conscious that an equal division of property is impracticable. But the consequences of this enormous inequality producing so much misery to the bulk of mankind, legislators cannot invent too many devices for subdividing property, only taking care to let their subdivisions go hand in hand with the natural affections of the human mind.

Another means of silently lessening the inequality of property is to exempt all from taxation below a certain point, and to tax the higher portions of property in geometrical progression as they rise.

Whenever there is in any country, uncultivated lands and unemployed poor, it is clear that the laws of property have been so far extended as to violate natural right.

"The property of this country is absolutely concentrated in a very few hands".
You can barely make out the bottom 50 percent in this graph. And they are the ones doing the hard work.

1. As luck would have it, I'm not one of the wealthy that would be affected by taxing unrealized gains.

2. Jefferson was talking more about property than wealth, noting that uncultivated land and unemployed poor go against common sense. He was not saying that the wealthy should be taxed, aka "from those who have to those who need"

3. Democrats are pushing communism. Not happening.

 

[g5000]

1. As luck would have it, I'm not one of the wealthy that would be affected by taxing unrealized gains.

2. Jefferson was talking more about property than wealth, noting that uncultivated land and unemployed poor go against common sense. He was not saying that the wealthy should be taxed, aka "from those who have to those who need"

3. Democrats are pushing communism. Not happening.

The Democrats are not pushing communism.

You sound really stupid saying that.

 

[martybegan]

If you can't pay your bills maybe you need to grab those old bootstraps and pull yourself up.

Isn't that generally what your side suggests?

This wouldn't be a bill, it would be forced liquidation of non liquid assets.

Do you understand the impact on an economy when billions of dollars of illiquid assets go on the market at once?

It would be worse than the 2008 panic.

 

[Crepitus]

This wouldn't be a bill,

Yes, your taxes are a bill.

DERP

 

[martybegan]

Yes, your taxes are a bill.

DERP

Income taxes, as a portion of my income. Property taxes are small enough to make sure people don't have to sell their homes to pay for it. And that is on the VALUE of the house. Now you clods want to add in tax on any increases in value before people can make it a liquid asset by selling their house.

Are we going to also give them credit for unrealized losses?

 

[Harpy Eagle]

f democrats win in November, the IRS will be going after unrealized gains. Is this even constitutional?

It is not and it will not pass any muster from the courts.

If you tax unrealized gains you would have to allow unrealized losses to be written off.

It is just stupid campaign promises that will never see the light of day.

 

[Crepitus]

Are we going to also give them credit for unrealized losses?

Pretty sure that's part of the bill.

 

[martybegan]

It is not and it will not pass any muster from the courts.

If you tax unrealized gains you would have to allow unrealized losses to be written off.

It is just stupid campaign promises that will never see the light of day.

One can only hope.

But I see you falling into the pit of "anything Trump says I don't like has to be taken at face value or even exaggerated, but anything the Dems say that may hurt their election chances can be dismissed as "campaigning"

 

[martybegan]

Pretty sure that's part of the bill.

It's unworkable. But the Dems get to make it seem like they are ******* over the "rich" while this would hurt the middle class far more.

 

[Crepitus]

It's unworkable.

Why? The issue here is that they already get to realize the losses any time they want/need by converting the funds. Hell, I've done it myself though not on the scale of a millionaire.

They don't have to realize the gains at all.

 

[martybegan]

Why? The issue here is that they already get to realize the losses any time they want/need by converting the funds. Hell, I've done it myself though not on the scale of a millionaire.

They don't have to realize the gains at all.

And the solution to that is to ruin the economy just to get the money now instead of later?

Or do you think like your fellow dems you will be able to pick up some assets on the cheap because everyone will have to convert to cash all at once?

 

[Crepitus]

And the solution to that is to ruin the economy just to get the money now instead of later?

In what way is that gonna ruin the economy?

 

[martybegan]

In what way is that gonna ruin the economy?

Massive decrease in value of hard assets due to the sudden need of large amounts of people to dump said assets?

At least with CDO's there was a question of the asset's value which caused the instability, here the decrease in value would be measurable and obvious to anyone.

 

[LibtardGFY]

Trumps economy couldn’t even hit 3% GDP growth. The Fed almost pushed us into recession when they increased interest rates to like 3%.

It wasn’t that strong.

If you tell a lie long enough it eventually becomes the truth. We see this everyday from the Democrat controlled media. Its so effective that here you are as the messenger.

Take for instance all the jobs that Brandon claims to have created that just got torpedoed to the tune of 1 million less jobs.

 

[JohnDB]

If democrats win in November, the IRS will be going after unrealized gains. Is this even constitutional?

Unrealized Gain Tax—A Coming Sea Change in FY2025 Budget Proposal?

Among the most striking initiatives in the FY2025 Budget Proposal is a set of proposals taxing unrealized gains—a concept generally absent in tax frameworks due to val...

www.forbes.com

The policies proposed in the FY2025 budget target extremely high-net-worth individuals and entities, attempting to ensure wealth accumulation through investment is looped in to the taxable base—even when those investments are not sold. The general principle behind equitable taxation is that a broad base is to be preferred over higher rates—in other words, increasing tax revenue without imposing additional burdens on middle and lower income brackets, merely reshuffling the deck so higher income earners are taxed under existing rate structures.
Among the proposals is a plan to tax the unrealized gain on a trust, partnership or other non-corporate entity that has not been subject to a recognition event in the previous 90 years—something of a one time tax true-up for complex tax structures that are and have been growing untaxed for generations.

Property taxes have been on state tax books for hundreds of years now.

That's essentially what this is....a form of federal property tax. And taxes cause capital flight.

In EVERY INSTANCE property taxes on capital has caused it to flee to other nations. EVERY nation who has instituted this tax has seen capital investment flee their nation to other nations.

Russia, China, Venezuela, and etc....all have had major issues with attracting investors. Russia got laughed at to their face for inviting investors to Russia after instituting this tax.

There is literally no chance this has of ever succeeding. It won't even make it to the roster for discussion much less a vote.