Do You Guy's Know The Difference Between:-

[healthmyths]

Humans long to be free....its about freedom.....anything that stunts freedom is evil.....

Your Liberty To Swing Your Fist Ends Just Where My Nose Begins

Your Liberty To Swing Your Fist Ends Just Where My Nose Begins – Quote Investigator

quoteinvestigator.com

 

[Deplorable Yankee]

I'll prove it. Which of these policies is the one you have a problem with? Nazis created a system where ordinary workers could go on the world's very first cruises. Nazi's slaughtered millions of Jews.

Tell me which of these is the problematic one?

forkup, you're a socialist at heart and you'll never change. Cuba and Venezuela are your kind of countries. Move to either one. I'll pay your way after you have moved. Just send me your address and I'll mail a check and good riddance.
Now you go to my Ignore List. I have no interest in reading another word of your Bidenistic nonsense.
ciao brutto

Lol, what you don't like it when you actually have to deal in facts?

The National Socialist People's Welfare (German: Nationalsozialistische Volkswohlfahrt, NSV) was a social welfare organization during the Third Reich. The NSV was established in 1931 as a local welfare organization; on 3 May 1933, shortly after the Nazi Party took power in Weimar Germany, Hitler turned it into a party organization of the NSDAP. The main offices were in Berlin. The structure of the NSV was based on the Nazi Party model, with local, county (Kreis) and district (Gau) administrations.[1]

Erich Hilgenfeldt, who worked as office head at the NSV, organized a charity drive to celebrate Adolf Hitler's birthday on 20 April, 1931. Following this move Joseph Goebbels named him the leader of the NSV. The NSV became established as the single Nazi Party welfare organ on 3 May 1933.[2] On 21 September in the same year, Hilgenfeldt was appointed as Reich Commissioner for the Winterhilfswerk (Winter Support Programme). Under Hilgenfeldt, the programme was massively expanded so that the régime deemed it worthy to be called the "greatest social institution in the world". One method of expansion was to absorb, or in Nazi parlance coordinate, already existing yet non-Nazi charity organizations. In 1933, Hitler decreed the banning of all private charity organizations in Germany, ordering NSV chairman Hilgenfeldt to "see to the disbanding of all private welfare institutions", which provided the Nazis the means to engage in the social engineering of society through the selection of who could receive government benefits.[3] Hitler had essentially nationalized local municipalities, German federal states and private delivery structures that had provided welfare services to the public.[4]


NSV membership card, 1935
The NSV was the second largest Nazi group organization by 1935, second only to the German Labour Front. It had 4.7 million members and 520,000 volunteer workers. Nazi Party members who were active in communal welfare professionally or as volunteers had to be NSV members.[5]

With 17 million Germans receiving assistance under the auspices of NSV by 1939, the agency "projected a powerful image of caring and support".[6] The Nazis provided a plethora of social welfare programs under the Nazi concept of Volksgemeinschaft, which promoted the collectivity of a people's community where citizens would sacrifice themselves for the greater good. The NSV operated 8,000 day-nurseries by 1939 and funded holiday homes for mothers, distributed additional food for large families and was involved with a wide variety of other facilities.[7]

The Nazi social welfare provisions included old age insurance, rent supplements, unemployment and disability benefits, old-age homes and interest-free loans for married couples, along with healthcare insurance, which was not decreed mandatory until 1941.[8] One of the NSV branches, the Office of Institutional and Special Welfare, was responsible "for travellers' aid at railway stations; relief for ex-convicts; support for re-migrants from abroad; assistance for the physically disabled, hard-of-hearing, deaf, mute, and blind; relief for the elderly, homeless and alcoholics; and the fight against illicit drugs and epidemics".[9] The Office of Youth Relief, which had 30,000 branch offices by 1941, took the job of supervising "social workers, corrective training, mediation assistance" and dealing with judicial authorities to prevent juvenile delinquency.[10]

One of the NSV's premier activities was the Winter Relief of the German People, which coordinated an annual drive to collect charity for the poor under the slogan: "None shall starve or freeze". These social welfare programs represented a Hitlerian endeavor to lift the community above the individual while promoting the wellbeing of all bona fide citizens. As Hitler told a reporter in 1934, he was determined to give Germans "the highest possible standard of living".[11]

During World War II, the NSV took over more and more governmental responsibilities, especially in the fields of child and youth labor. The expenses for the Nazi’s welfare state continued to mount, increasing significantly just before and after the beginning of World War II. In three budgetary years, the funds required by Germany's social welfare programs had more than doubled from 640.4 million Reichmarks in 1938 to 1.395 billion Reichmarks by 1941.[12]

The NSV was also involved in the distribution of soup to the citizens of Warsaw after the city's surrender; Jews were excluded from the effort, which focused on the propaganda value.[13]

After Nazi Germany's defeat in World War II, the American Military Government issued a special law outlawing the Nazi Party and all of its branches. Known as Law number five, this denazification decree disbanded the NSV, like all organizations linked to the Nazi Party. The social welfare organizations had to be established anew during the postwar reconstruction of both West and East Germany.

Anyone who calls themselves a socialist.?.youre practically a nazi already
And just like the nazis everything is about race with you uneducated brainwashed leftwing socialist morons

You're so fucking dumbed down 2nd and 3rd worlders think you're jokes.. to them ...you're pathetic desperate laughing stocks to be used and exploited

 

[forkup]

I'll prove it. Which of these policies is the one you have a problem with? Nazis created a system where ordinary workers could go on the world's very first cruises. Nazi's slaughtered millions of Jews.

Tell me which of these is the problematic one?

forkup, you're a socialist at heart and you'll never change. Cuba and Venezuela are your kind of countries. Move to either one. I'll pay your way after you have moved. Just send me your address and I'll mail a check and good riddance.
Now you go to my Ignore List. I have no interest in reading another word of your Bidenistic nonsense.
ciao brutto

Lol, what you don't like it when you actually have to deal in facts?

The National Socialist People's Welfare (German: Nationalsozialistische Volkswohlfahrt, NSV) was a social welfare organization during the Third Reich. The NSV was established in 1931 as a local welfare organization; on 3 May 1933, shortly after the Nazi Party took power in Weimar Germany, Hitler turned it into a party organization of the NSDAP. The main offices were in Berlin. The structure of the NSV was based on the Nazi Party model, with local, county (Kreis) and district (Gau) administrations.[1]

Erich Hilgenfeldt, who worked as office head at the NSV, organized a charity drive to celebrate Adolf Hitler's birthday on 20 April, 1931. Following this move Joseph Goebbels named him the leader of the NSV. The NSV became established as the single Nazi Party welfare organ on 3 May 1933.[2] On 21 September in the same year, Hilgenfeldt was appointed as Reich Commissioner for the Winterhilfswerk (Winter Support Programme). Under Hilgenfeldt, the programme was massively expanded so that the régime deemed it worthy to be called the "greatest social institution in the world". One method of expansion was to absorb, or in Nazi parlance coordinate, already existing yet non-Nazi charity organizations. In 1933, Hitler decreed the banning of all private charity organizations in Germany, ordering NSV chairman Hilgenfeldt to "see to the disbanding of all private welfare institutions", which provided the Nazis the means to engage in the social engineering of society through the selection of who could receive government benefits.[3] Hitler had essentially nationalized local municipalities, German federal states and private delivery structures that had provided welfare services to the public.[4]


NSV membership card, 1935
The NSV was the second largest Nazi group organization by 1935, second only to the German Labour Front. It had 4.7 million members and 520,000 volunteer workers. Nazi Party members who were active in communal welfare professionally or as volunteers had to be NSV members.[5]

With 17 million Germans receiving assistance under the auspices of NSV by 1939, the agency "projected a powerful image of caring and support".[6] The Nazis provided a plethora of social welfare programs under the Nazi concept of Volksgemeinschaft, which promoted the collectivity of a people's community where citizens would sacrifice themselves for the greater good. The NSV operated 8,000 day-nurseries by 1939 and funded holiday homes for mothers, distributed additional food for large families and was involved with a wide variety of other facilities.[7]

The Nazi social welfare provisions included old age insurance, rent supplements, unemployment and disability benefits, old-age homes and interest-free loans for married couples, along with healthcare insurance, which was not decreed mandatory until 1941.[8] One of the NSV branches, the Office of Institutional and Special Welfare, was responsible "for travellers' aid at railway stations; relief for ex-convicts; support for re-migrants from abroad; assistance for the physically disabled, hard-of-hearing, deaf, mute, and blind; relief for the elderly, homeless and alcoholics; and the fight against illicit drugs and epidemics".[9] The Office of Youth Relief, which had 30,000 branch offices by 1941, took the job of supervising "social workers, corrective training, mediation assistance" and dealing with judicial authorities to prevent juvenile delinquency.[10]

One of the NSV's premier activities was the Winter Relief of the German People, which coordinated an annual drive to collect charity for the poor under the slogan: "None shall starve or freeze". These social welfare programs represented a Hitlerian endeavor to lift the community above the individual while promoting the wellbeing of all bona fide citizens. As Hitler told a reporter in 1934, he was determined to give Germans "the highest possible standard of living".[11]

During World War II, the NSV took over more and more governmental responsibilities, especially in the fields of child and youth labor. The expenses for the Nazi’s welfare state continued to mount, increasing significantly just before and after the beginning of World War II. In three budgetary years, the funds required by Germany's social welfare programs had more than doubled from 640.4 million Reichmarks in 1938 to 1.395 billion Reichmarks by 1941.[12]

The NSV was also involved in the distribution of soup to the citizens of Warsaw after the city's surrender; Jews were excluded from the effort, which focused on the propaganda value.[13]

After Nazi Germany's defeat in World War II, the American Military Government issued a special law outlawing the Nazi Party and all of its branches. Known as Law number five, this denazification decree disbanded the NSV, like all organizations linked to the Nazi Party. The social welfare organizations had to be established anew during the postwar reconstruction of both West and East Germany.

Anyone who calls themselves a socialist.?.youre practically a nazi already
And just like the nazis everything is about race with you uneducated brainwashed leftwing socialist morons

You're so fucking dumbed down 2nd and 3rd worlders think you're jokes.. to them ...you're pathetic desperate laughing stocks to be used and exploited

View attachment 343954

Please point to where you see me claiming Nazis weren't socialists? Go ahead. My argument was that it wasn't the social aspect of Nazism that gave it it's notoriety. But rather the nationalistic and racial aspect of them. Feel free to go through your own post and tell me specifically what you find objectionable about their social programs.

Mein Kampf was not so much about Socialism as it was about racism and German exceptionalism. Unless you want me to draw the obvious parallels between Trumpism and Nazism, I'd suggest you refrain from trying to put up a strawman argument.

Look at it this way. You could argue that I'm like Hitler because we are both male. It would however be a bad comparison since I'm not a homicidal maniac. Just because it is possible to draw comparisons doesn't mean the actual comparison is actually very good when it leaves out key aspects.

 

[Deplorable Yankee]

I'll prove it. Which of these policies is the one you have a problem with? Nazis created a system where ordinary workers could go on the world's very first cruises. Nazi's slaughtered millions of Jews.

Tell me which of these is the problematic one?

forkup, you're a socialist at heart and you'll never change. Cuba and Venezuela are your kind of countries. Move to either one. I'll pay your way after you have moved. Just send me your address and I'll mail a check and good riddance.
Now you go to my Ignore List. I have no interest in reading another word of your Bidenistic nonsense.
ciao brutto

Lol, what you don't like it when you actually have to deal in facts?

The National Socialist People's Welfare (German: Nationalsozialistische Volkswohlfahrt, NSV) was a social welfare organization during the Third Reich. The NSV was established in 1931 as a local welfare organization; on 3 May 1933, shortly after the Nazi Party took power in Weimar Germany, Hitler turned it into a party organization of the NSDAP. The main offices were in Berlin. The structure of the NSV was based on the Nazi Party model, with local, county (Kreis) and district (Gau) administrations.[1]

Erich Hilgenfeldt, who worked as office head at the NSV, organized a charity drive to celebrate Adolf Hitler's birthday on 20 April, 1931. Following this move Joseph Goebbels named him the leader of the NSV. The NSV became established as the single Nazi Party welfare organ on 3 May 1933.[2] On 21 September in the same year, Hilgenfeldt was appointed as Reich Commissioner for the Winterhilfswerk (Winter Support Programme). Under Hilgenfeldt, the programme was massively expanded so that the régime deemed it worthy to be called the "greatest social institution in the world". One method of expansion was to absorb, or in Nazi parlance coordinate, already existing yet non-Nazi charity organizations. In 1933, Hitler decreed the banning of all private charity organizations in Germany, ordering NSV chairman Hilgenfeldt to "see to the disbanding of all private welfare institutions", which provided the Nazis the means to engage in the social engineering of society through the selection of who could receive government benefits.[3] Hitler had essentially nationalized local municipalities, German federal states and private delivery structures that had provided welfare services to the public.[4]


NSV membership card, 1935
The NSV was the second largest Nazi group organization by 1935, second only to the German Labour Front. It had 4.7 million members and 520,000 volunteer workers. Nazi Party members who were active in communal welfare professionally or as volunteers had to be NSV members.[5]

With 17 million Germans receiving assistance under the auspices of NSV by 1939, the agency "projected a powerful image of caring and support".[6] The Nazis provided a plethora of social welfare programs under the Nazi concept of Volksgemeinschaft, which promoted the collectivity of a people's community where citizens would sacrifice themselves for the greater good. The NSV operated 8,000 day-nurseries by 1939 and funded holiday homes for mothers, distributed additional food for large families and was involved with a wide variety of other facilities.[7]

The Nazi social welfare provisions included old age insurance, rent supplements, unemployment and disability benefits, old-age homes and interest-free loans for married couples, along with healthcare insurance, which was not decreed mandatory until 1941.[8] One of the NSV branches, the Office of Institutional and Special Welfare, was responsible "for travellers' aid at railway stations; relief for ex-convicts; support for re-migrants from abroad; assistance for the physically disabled, hard-of-hearing, deaf, mute, and blind; relief for the elderly, homeless and alcoholics; and the fight against illicit drugs and epidemics".[9] The Office of Youth Relief, which had 30,000 branch offices by 1941, took the job of supervising "social workers, corrective training, mediation assistance" and dealing with judicial authorities to prevent juvenile delinquency.[10]

One of the NSV's premier activities was the Winter Relief of the German People, which coordinated an annual drive to collect charity for the poor under the slogan: "None shall starve or freeze". These social welfare programs represented a Hitlerian endeavor to lift the community above the individual while promoting the wellbeing of all bona fide citizens. As Hitler told a reporter in 1934, he was determined to give Germans "the highest possible standard of living".[11]

During World War II, the NSV took over more and more governmental responsibilities, especially in the fields of child and youth labor. The expenses for the Nazi’s welfare state continued to mount, increasing significantly just before and after the beginning of World War II. In three budgetary years, the funds required by Germany's social welfare programs had more than doubled from 640.4 million Reichmarks in 1938 to 1.395 billion Reichmarks by 1941.[12]

The NSV was also involved in the distribution of soup to the citizens of Warsaw after the city's surrender; Jews were excluded from the effort, which focused on the propaganda value.[13]

After Nazi Germany's defeat in World War II, the American Military Government issued a special law outlawing the Nazi Party and all of its branches. Known as Law number five, this denazification decree disbanded the NSV, like all organizations linked to the Nazi Party. The social welfare organizations had to be established anew during the postwar reconstruction of both West and East Germany.

Anyone who calls themselves a socialist.?.youre practically a nazi already
And just like the nazis everything is about race with you uneducated brainwashed leftwing socialist morons

You're so fucking dumbed down 2nd and 3rd worlders think you're jokes.. to them ...you're pathetic desperate laughing stocks to be used and exploited

View attachment 343954

Please point to where you see me claiming Nazis weren't socialists? Go ahead. My argument was that it wasn't the social aspect of Nazism that gave it it's notoriety. But rather the nationalistic and racial aspect of them. Feel free to go through your own post and tell me specifically what you find objectionable about their social programs.

Mein Kampf was not so much about Socialism as it was about racism and German exceptionalism. Unless you want me to draw the obvious parallels between Trumpism and Nazism, I'd suggest you refrain from trying to put up a strawman argument.

Tell me which joke of a European nation you're from ...or decaying anglosphere nation and I will show you a creeping authoritarian nazi like nightmare thats only getting worse ...mr democatic socialist

Go ahead which loser nazi country run by fags and women are ya from

 

[Oz and the Orchestra]

Do You Guy's Know The Difference Between:-

Most of us guys know the difference between “guys” (plural, more than one guy) and “guy's” (possessive, referring to something that belongs to one guy).
The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

Brilliant footnote. Brilliant.
I would add that "guy's" could refer to the contraction of "guy is" as in The guy's crazy."

Nitpick all you like rather than answer the questions.

While Rome burns..... eh!

That's not nitpicking! It points out that you are uneducated goober!

Ha Ha.... How YOU can say that having voted for Trump is any ones guess!

The correct term is "anyone's".

What is your native language because English is sure not your best effort? Yet you try to argue definitions

Admiral Rockwell Tory;;;;;Admiral Rockwell T..... Admir...... say it soft and its almost like praying!

Why do you pretend your English?
Why do you refuse to state your location - is it that bad a shit hole?

Perhaps I'm dislec......dizlek...... dys......... fancy giving us who can;t spell a name like that to describe us, taking the piss or what.....bastards!

I don't "pretend my English". I was a teacher and I know enough about dyslexia to know your errors are not caused by dyslexia.

I have been cyber-stalked before and refrain from giving a specific location, but I will let you know that I live in KY now, after living up and down the east coast of the US.

When you were a teacher, and asked your pupils a question, were you satisfied if in reply they asked if you'd forgotten your socks, was having an affair with the head mistress or asked why your ears are not in alignment, never bothering to answer your original question?

Good to hear I'm not dyslexic Doc??? Maybe its the effects of my one hundred and eleven chemotherapy treatments, -early stages of dementia or perhaps I'm just a lazy bastard!

 

[forkup]

I'll prove it. Which of these policies is the one you have a problem with? Nazis created a system where ordinary workers could go on the world's very first cruises. Nazi's slaughtered millions of Jews.

Tell me which of these is the problematic one?

forkup, you're a socialist at heart and you'll never change. Cuba and Venezuela are your kind of countries. Move to either one. I'll pay your way after you have moved. Just send me your address and I'll mail a check and good riddance.
Now you go to my Ignore List. I have no interest in reading another word of your Bidenistic nonsense.
ciao brutto

Lol, what you don't like it when you actually have to deal in facts?

The National Socialist People's Welfare (German: Nationalsozialistische Volkswohlfahrt, NSV) was a social welfare organization during the Third Reich. The NSV was established in 1931 as a local welfare organization; on 3 May 1933, shortly after the Nazi Party took power in Weimar Germany, Hitler turned it into a party organization of the NSDAP. The main offices were in Berlin. The structure of the NSV was based on the Nazi Party model, with local, county (Kreis) and district (Gau) administrations.[1]

Erich Hilgenfeldt, who worked as office head at the NSV, organized a charity drive to celebrate Adolf Hitler's birthday on 20 April, 1931. Following this move Joseph Goebbels named him the leader of the NSV. The NSV became established as the single Nazi Party welfare organ on 3 May 1933.[2] On 21 September in the same year, Hilgenfeldt was appointed as Reich Commissioner for the Winterhilfswerk (Winter Support Programme). Under Hilgenfeldt, the programme was massively expanded so that the régime deemed it worthy to be called the "greatest social institution in the world". One method of expansion was to absorb, or in Nazi parlance coordinate, already existing yet non-Nazi charity organizations. In 1933, Hitler decreed the banning of all private charity organizations in Germany, ordering NSV chairman Hilgenfeldt to "see to the disbanding of all private welfare institutions", which provided the Nazis the means to engage in the social engineering of society through the selection of who could receive government benefits.[3] Hitler had essentially nationalized local municipalities, German federal states and private delivery structures that had provided welfare services to the public.[4]


NSV membership card, 1935
The NSV was the second largest Nazi group organization by 1935, second only to the German Labour Front. It had 4.7 million members and 520,000 volunteer workers. Nazi Party members who were active in communal welfare professionally or as volunteers had to be NSV members.[5]

With 17 million Germans receiving assistance under the auspices of NSV by 1939, the agency "projected a powerful image of caring and support".[6] The Nazis provided a plethora of social welfare programs under the Nazi concept of Volksgemeinschaft, which promoted the collectivity of a people's community where citizens would sacrifice themselves for the greater good. The NSV operated 8,000 day-nurseries by 1939 and funded holiday homes for mothers, distributed additional food for large families and was involved with a wide variety of other facilities.[7]

The Nazi social welfare provisions included old age insurance, rent supplements, unemployment and disability benefits, old-age homes and interest-free loans for married couples, along with healthcare insurance, which was not decreed mandatory until 1941.[8] One of the NSV branches, the Office of Institutional and Special Welfare, was responsible "for travellers' aid at railway stations; relief for ex-convicts; support for re-migrants from abroad; assistance for the physically disabled, hard-of-hearing, deaf, mute, and blind; relief for the elderly, homeless and alcoholics; and the fight against illicit drugs and epidemics".[9] The Office of Youth Relief, which had 30,000 branch offices by 1941, took the job of supervising "social workers, corrective training, mediation assistance" and dealing with judicial authorities to prevent juvenile delinquency.[10]

One of the NSV's premier activities was the Winter Relief of the German People, which coordinated an annual drive to collect charity for the poor under the slogan: "None shall starve or freeze". These social welfare programs represented a Hitlerian endeavor to lift the community above the individual while promoting the wellbeing of all bona fide citizens. As Hitler told a reporter in 1934, he was determined to give Germans "the highest possible standard of living".[11]

During World War II, the NSV took over more and more governmental responsibilities, especially in the fields of child and youth labor. The expenses for the Nazi’s welfare state continued to mount, increasing significantly just before and after the beginning of World War II. In three budgetary years, the funds required by Germany's social welfare programs had more than doubled from 640.4 million Reichmarks in 1938 to 1.395 billion Reichmarks by 1941.[12]

The NSV was also involved in the distribution of soup to the citizens of Warsaw after the city's surrender; Jews were excluded from the effort, which focused on the propaganda value.[13]

After Nazi Germany's defeat in World War II, the American Military Government issued a special law outlawing the Nazi Party and all of its branches. Known as Law number five, this denazification decree disbanded the NSV, like all organizations linked to the Nazi Party. The social welfare organizations had to be established anew during the postwar reconstruction of both West and East Germany.

Anyone who calls themselves a socialist.?.youre practically a nazi already
And just like the nazis everything is about race with you uneducated brainwashed leftwing socialist morons

You're so fucking dumbed down 2nd and 3rd worlders think you're jokes.. to them ...you're pathetic desperate laughing stocks to be used and exploited

View attachment 343954

Please point to where you see me claiming Nazis weren't socialists? Go ahead. My argument was that it wasn't the social aspect of Nazism that gave it it's notoriety. But rather the nationalistic and racial aspect of them. Feel free to go through your own post and tell me specifically what you find objectionable about their social programs.

Mein Kampf was not so much about Socialism as it was about racism and German exceptionalism. Unless you want me to draw the obvious parallels between Trumpism and Nazism, I'd suggest you refrain from trying to put up a strawman argument.

Tell me which joke of a European nation you're from ...or decaying anglosphere nation and I will show you a creeping authoritarian nazi like nightmare thats only getting worse ...mr democatic socialist

Go ahead which loser nazi country run by fags and women are ya from

Oh lord, why is it so hard for some people to remain civil on the internet? See, I wouldn't mind answering questions to someone who can have a civil conversation between opposing views. Then questions are the way people who don't agree can at least learn to understand each other somewhat. However, I see no point in answering questions of someone who can't make it through 2 posts without starting to name-call. I know that trolling is fun for some people, but I just find it tedious. Maybe one day you'll reach the age of 6, which is the maximum age I have allowed this level of discourse from my kid and we can try talking again.

 

[TNHarley]

Liberalism/Socialism & Communism?

And hands up if any of you have ever actually read Das Capital?

Socialism and communism are totalitarian.
Thats all that matters

Really? I live in a social Democracy, pretty sure I vote for my elected officials. In fact, since my choices of parties who have a realistic chance of getting power isn't restricted to 2, I would argue my form of government is less authoritarian than yours.

As far as I know, no American politician has ever claimed the US should turn to Communism. Quite a few would like a social Democracy.

Well the duopoly is private. And the voters keep it alive. Not the government.
I thought social democracies were different from socialism?
You statists need to keep your stuff strait, bro.

I would keep it straight if you guys had any interest in sticking to an actual definition. Tell me Harley, how many times have you claimed Bernie is a Communist? Or the entire Democratic party without EVER not EVER acknowledging that not a single one has ever claimed they want to emulate Communism? In fact, I've noticed that every single person on the right on this board routinely interchanges, Communist, Socialist, and Democrat. While they all are certainly not the same. So if you don't feel the need to differentiate between those terms why should I not simply lump Social Democracy in there too and see how well the US compares to that?

You were being technical. In the next post to me, you claim there is no need to be.
Ay caramba

 

[ding]

Liberalism/Socialism & Communism?

And hands up if any of you have ever actually read Das Capital?

Socialism intentionally denies examination because it is irrational. There is no formal defined dogma of socialism. Instead there is only a vague, rosy notion of something good, noble and just: the advent of these things will bring instant euphoria and a social order beyond reproach. Socialism seeks equality through uniformity and communal ownership Socialism has an extraordinary ability to incite and inflame its adherents and inspire social movements. Socialists dismiss their defeats and ignore their incongruities. They desire big government and use big government to implement their morally relativistic social policies. Socialism is a religion. The religious nature of socialism explains their hostility towards traditional religions which is that of one rival religion over another. Their dogma is based on materialism, primitive instincts, atheism and the deification of man. They see no distinction between good and evil, no morality or any other kind of value, save pleasure. They practice moral relativity, indiscriminate indiscriminateness, multiculturalism, cultural Marxism and normalization of deviance. They worship science but are the first to reject it when it suits their purposes. They can be identified by an external locus of control. Their religious doctrine is abolition of private property, abolition of family, abolition of religion and equality via uniformity and communal ownership. They practice critical theory which is the Cultural Marxist theory to criticize what they do not believe to arrive at what they do believe without ever having to examine what they believe. They confuse critical theory for critical thinking. Critical thinking is the practice of challenging what one does believe to test its validity. Something they never do.

 

[Deplorable Yankee]

I'll prove it. Which of these policies is the one you have a problem with? Nazis created a system where ordinary workers could go on the world's very first cruises. Nazi's slaughtered millions of Jews.

Tell me which of these is the problematic one?

forkup, you're a socialist at heart and you'll never change. Cuba and Venezuela are your kind of countries. Move to either one. I'll pay your way after you have moved. Just send me your address and I'll mail a check and good riddance.
Now you go to my Ignore List. I have no interest in reading another word of your Bidenistic nonsense.
ciao brutto

Lol, what you don't like it when you actually have to deal in facts?

The National Socialist People's Welfare (German: Nationalsozialistische Volkswohlfahrt, NSV) was a social welfare organization during the Third Reich. The NSV was established in 1931 as a local welfare organization; on 3 May 1933, shortly after the Nazi Party took power in Weimar Germany, Hitler turned it into a party organization of the NSDAP. The main offices were in Berlin. The structure of the NSV was based on the Nazi Party model, with local, county (Kreis) and district (Gau) administrations.[1]

Erich Hilgenfeldt, who worked as office head at the NSV, organized a charity drive to celebrate Adolf Hitler's birthday on 20 April, 1931. Following this move Joseph Goebbels named him the leader of the NSV. The NSV became established as the single Nazi Party welfare organ on 3 May 1933.[2] On 21 September in the same year, Hilgenfeldt was appointed as Reich Commissioner for the Winterhilfswerk (Winter Support Programme). Under Hilgenfeldt, the programme was massively expanded so that the régime deemed it worthy to be called the "greatest social institution in the world". One method of expansion was to absorb, or in Nazi parlance coordinate, already existing yet non-Nazi charity organizations. In 1933, Hitler decreed the banning of all private charity organizations in Germany, ordering NSV chairman Hilgenfeldt to "see to the disbanding of all private welfare institutions", which provided the Nazis the means to engage in the social engineering of society through the selection of who could receive government benefits.[3] Hitler had essentially nationalized local municipalities, German federal states and private delivery structures that had provided welfare services to the public.[4]


NSV membership card, 1935
The NSV was the second largest Nazi group organization by 1935, second only to the German Labour Front. It had 4.7 million members and 520,000 volunteer workers. Nazi Party members who were active in communal welfare professionally or as volunteers had to be NSV members.[5]

With 17 million Germans receiving assistance under the auspices of NSV by 1939, the agency "projected a powerful image of caring and support".[6] The Nazis provided a plethora of social welfare programs under the Nazi concept of Volksgemeinschaft, which promoted the collectivity of a people's community where citizens would sacrifice themselves for the greater good. The NSV operated 8,000 day-nurseries by 1939 and funded holiday homes for mothers, distributed additional food for large families and was involved with a wide variety of other facilities.[7]

The Nazi social welfare provisions included old age insurance, rent supplements, unemployment and disability benefits, old-age homes and interest-free loans for married couples, along with healthcare insurance, which was not decreed mandatory until 1941.[8] One of the NSV branches, the Office of Institutional and Special Welfare, was responsible "for travellers' aid at railway stations; relief for ex-convicts; support for re-migrants from abroad; assistance for the physically disabled, hard-of-hearing, deaf, mute, and blind; relief for the elderly, homeless and alcoholics; and the fight against illicit drugs and epidemics".[9] The Office of Youth Relief, which had 30,000 branch offices by 1941, took the job of supervising "social workers, corrective training, mediation assistance" and dealing with judicial authorities to prevent juvenile delinquency.[10]

One of the NSV's premier activities was the Winter Relief of the German People, which coordinated an annual drive to collect charity for the poor under the slogan: "None shall starve or freeze". These social welfare programs represented a Hitlerian endeavor to lift the community above the individual while promoting the wellbeing of all bona fide citizens. As Hitler told a reporter in 1934, he was determined to give Germans "the highest possible standard of living".[11]

During World War II, the NSV took over more and more governmental responsibilities, especially in the fields of child and youth labor. The expenses for the Nazi’s welfare state continued to mount, increasing significantly just before and after the beginning of World War II. In three budgetary years, the funds required by Germany's social welfare programs had more than doubled from 640.4 million Reichmarks in 1938 to 1.395 billion Reichmarks by 1941.[12]

The NSV was also involved in the distribution of soup to the citizens of Warsaw after the city's surrender; Jews were excluded from the effort, which focused on the propaganda value.[13]

After Nazi Germany's defeat in World War II, the American Military Government issued a special law outlawing the Nazi Party and all of its branches. Known as Law number five, this denazification decree disbanded the NSV, like all organizations linked to the Nazi Party. The social welfare organizations had to be established anew during the postwar reconstruction of both West and East Germany.

Anyone who calls themselves a socialist.?.youre practically a nazi already
And just like the nazis everything is about race with you uneducated brainwashed leftwing socialist morons

You're so fucking dumbed down 2nd and 3rd worlders think you're jokes.. to them ...you're pathetic desperate laughing stocks to be used and exploited

View attachment 343954

Please point to where you see me claiming Nazis weren't socialists? Go ahead. My argument was that it wasn't the social aspect of Nazism that gave it it's notoriety. But rather the nationalistic and racial aspect of them. Feel free to go through your own post and tell me specifically what you find objectionable about their social programs.

Mein Kampf was not so much about Socialism as it was about racism and German exceptionalism. Unless you want me to draw the obvious parallels between Trumpism and Nazism, I'd suggest you refrain from trying to put up a strawman argument.

Tell me which joke of a European nation you're from ...or decaying anglosphere nation and I will show you a creeping authoritarian nazi like nightmare thats only getting worse ...mr democatic socialist

Go ahead which loser nazi country run by fags and women are ya from

Oh lord, why is it so hard for some people to remain civil on the internet? See, I wouldn't mind answering questions to someone who can have a civil conversation between opposing views. Then questions are the way people who don't agree can at least learn to understand each other somewhat. However, I see no point in answering questions of someone who can't make it through 2 posts without starting to name-call. I know that trolling is fun for some people, but I just find it tedious. Maybe one day you'll reach the age of 6, which is the maximum age I have allowed this level of discourse from my kid and we can try talking again.

They erased my fu 2nd post to the educated moron who was gonna show us how drumph was hitler ...gtfoh mods
Did the nazi eurotrash hit the report button lol good

These people are idiots

 

[forkup]

Liberalism/Socialism & Communism?

And hands up if any of you have ever actually read Das Capital?

Socialism and communism are totalitarian.
Thats all that matters

Really? I live in a social Democracy, pretty sure I vote for my elected officials. In fact, since my choices of parties who have a realistic chance of getting power isn't restricted to 2, I would argue my form of government is less authoritarian than yours.

As far as I know, no American politician has ever claimed the US should turn to Communism. Quite a few would like a social Democracy.

Well the duopoly is private. And the voters keep it alive. Not the government.
I thought social democracies were different from socialism?
You statists need to keep your stuff strait, bro.

I would keep it straight if you guys had any interest in sticking to an actual definition. Tell me Harley, how many times have you claimed Bernie is a Communist? Or the entire Democratic party without EVER not EVER acknowledging that not a single one has ever claimed they want to emulate Communism? In fact, I've noticed that every single person on the right on this board routinely interchanges, Communist, Socialist, and Democrat. While they all are certainly not the same. So if you don't feel the need to differentiate between those terms why should I not simply lump Social Democracy in there too and see how well the US compares to that?

You were being technical. In the next post to me, you claim there is no need to be.
Ay caramba

I didn't realize correcting the assertion that all forms of Socialism are authoritarian was "technical". The fact of the matter simply is that the right has deliberately muddled the meaning of Socialism so they could start to equate it to Communism. Socialism, actual Socialism has been the driving force for stuff like the abolishing of child labor, Universal Suffrage, affordable healthcare, a 5 day work week etc. etc. You can, as I do condemn Communism because that DOES seem to invariably turn to authoritarianism. But that's a condemnation of authoritarianism, not the idea that the community should share its resources. But do me a favor don't try to come to me and say I'm inconsistent in my definition of Socialism.

I live in a Social Democracy, meaning that my country recognizes as does yours by the way just to a lesser extent than society as a whole does have a responsibility to help its weaker members. That IS Socialism. I don't know what your position is on that, how far you are willing to state that people have to be able to take care of themselves but chances are, you recognize that you have at least some responsibility to society at large.

 

[ding]

"It seems that certain things in this world simply cannot be discovered without extensive experience, be it personal or collective. This applies to the present book with its fresh and revealing perspective on the millennia-old trends of socialism. While it makes use of a voluminous literature familiar to specialists throughout the world, there is an undeniable logic in the fact that it emerged from the country that has undergone (and is undergoing) the harshest and most prolonged socialist experience in modern history. Nor is it at all incongruous that within that country this book should not have been produced by a humanist, for scholars in the humanities have been the most methodically crushed of all social strata in the Soviet Union ever since the October Revolution. It was written by a mathematician of world renown: in the Communist world, practitioners of the exact sciences must stand in for their annihilated brethren.

But this circumstance has its compensations. It provides us with a rare opportunity of receiving a systematic analysis of the theory and practice of socialism from the pen of an outstanding mathematical thinker versed in the rigorous methodology of his science. (One can attach particular weight, for instance, to his judgment that Marxism lacks even the climate of scientific inquiry.)

World socialism as a whole, and all the figures associated with it, are shrouded in legend; its contradictions are forgotten or concealed; it does not respond to arguments but continually ignores them--all this stems from the mist of irrationality that surrounds socialism and from its instinctive aversion to scientific analysis, features which the author of this volume points out repeatedly and in many contexts. The doctrines of socialism seethe with contradictions, its theories are at constant odds with its practice, yet due to a powerful instinct--also laid bare by Shafarevich--these contradictions do not in the least hinder the unending propaganda of socialism. Indeed, no precise, distinct socialism even exists; instead there is only a vague, rosy notion of something noble and good, of equality, communal ownership, and justice: the advent of these things will bring instant euphoria and a social order beyond reproach.

The twentieth century marks one of the greatest upsurges in the success of socialism, and concomitantly of its repulsive practical manifestations. Yet due to the same passionate irrationality, attempts to examine these results are repelled: they are either ignored completely, or implausibly explained away in terms of certain "Asiatic" or "Russian" aberrations or the personality of a particular dictator, or else they are ascribed to "state capitalism." The present book encompasses vast stretches of time and space. By carefully describing and analyzing dozens of socialist doctrines and numerous states built on socialist principles, the author leaves no room for evasive arguments based on so-called "insignificant exceptions" (allegedly bearing no resemblance to the glorious future). Whether it is the centralization of China in the first millennium B.C., the bloody European experiments of the time of the Reformation, the chilling (though universally esteemed) utopias of European thinkers, the intrigues of Marx and Engels, or the radical Communist measures of the Lenin period (no wit more humane than Stalin's heavy-handed methods)--the author in all his dozens of examples demonstrates the undeviating consistency of the phenomenon under consideration.

Shafarevich has singled out the invariants of socialism, its fundamental and unchanging elements, which depend neither on time nor place, and which, alas, are looming ominously over today's tottering world. If one considers human history in its entirety, socialism can boast of a greater longevity and durability, of wider diffusion and of control over larger masses of people, than can contemporary Western civilization. It is therefore difficult to shake off gloomy presentiments when contemplating that maw into which--before the century is out--we may all plunge: that "Asiatic formation" which Marx hastened to circumvent in his classification, and before which contemporary Marxist thought stands baffled, having discerned its own hideous countenance in the mirror of the millennia. It could probably be said that the majority of states in the history of mankind have been "socialist." But it is also true that these were in no sense periods or places of human happiness or creativity.

Shafarevich points out with great precision both the cause and the genesis of the first socialist doctrines, which he characterizes as reactions: Plato as a reaction to Greek culture, and the Gnostics as a reaction to Christianity. They sought to counteract the endeavor of the human spirit to stand erect, and strove to return to the earthbound existence of the primitive states of antiquity. The author also convincingly demonstrates the diametrical opposition between the concepts of man held by religion and by socialism. Socialism seeks to reduce human personality to its most primitive levels and to extinguish the highest, most complex, and "God-like" aspects of human individuality. And even equality itself, that powerful appeal and great promise of socialists throughout the ages, turns out to signify not equality of rights, of opportunities, and of external conditions, but equality qua identity, equality seen as the movement of variety toward uniformity.

Even though, as this book shows, socialism has always successfully avoided truly scientific analyses of its essence, Shafarevich's study challenges present-day theoreticians of socialism to demonstrate their arguments in a businesslike public discussion."

ALEKSANDR I. SOLZHENITSYN

From the Foreword of The Socialist Phenomenon

The Socialist Phenomenon

 

[forkup]

I'll prove it. Which of these policies is the one you have a problem with? Nazis created a system where ordinary workers could go on the world's very first cruises. Nazi's slaughtered millions of Jews.

Tell me which of these is the problematic one?

forkup, you're a socialist at heart and you'll never change. Cuba and Venezuela are your kind of countries. Move to either one. I'll pay your way after you have moved. Just send me your address and I'll mail a check and good riddance.
Now you go to my Ignore List. I have no interest in reading another word of your Bidenistic nonsense.
ciao brutto

Lol, what you don't like it when you actually have to deal in facts?

The National Socialist People's Welfare (German: Nationalsozialistische Volkswohlfahrt, NSV) was a social welfare organization during the Third Reich. The NSV was established in 1931 as a local welfare organization; on 3 May 1933, shortly after the Nazi Party took power in Weimar Germany, Hitler turned it into a party organization of the NSDAP. The main offices were in Berlin. The structure of the NSV was based on the Nazi Party model, with local, county (Kreis) and district (Gau) administrations.[1]

Erich Hilgenfeldt, who worked as office head at the NSV, organized a charity drive to celebrate Adolf Hitler's birthday on 20 April, 1931. Following this move Joseph Goebbels named him the leader of the NSV. The NSV became established as the single Nazi Party welfare organ on 3 May 1933.[2] On 21 September in the same year, Hilgenfeldt was appointed as Reich Commissioner for the Winterhilfswerk (Winter Support Programme). Under Hilgenfeldt, the programme was massively expanded so that the régime deemed it worthy to be called the "greatest social institution in the world". One method of expansion was to absorb, or in Nazi parlance coordinate, already existing yet non-Nazi charity organizations. In 1933, Hitler decreed the banning of all private charity organizations in Germany, ordering NSV chairman Hilgenfeldt to "see to the disbanding of all private welfare institutions", which provided the Nazis the means to engage in the social engineering of society through the selection of who could receive government benefits.[3] Hitler had essentially nationalized local municipalities, German federal states and private delivery structures that had provided welfare services to the public.[4]


NSV membership card, 1935
The NSV was the second largest Nazi group organization by 1935, second only to the German Labour Front. It had 4.7 million members and 520,000 volunteer workers. Nazi Party members who were active in communal welfare professionally or as volunteers had to be NSV members.[5]

With 17 million Germans receiving assistance under the auspices of NSV by 1939, the agency "projected a powerful image of caring and support".[6] The Nazis provided a plethora of social welfare programs under the Nazi concept of Volksgemeinschaft, which promoted the collectivity of a people's community where citizens would sacrifice themselves for the greater good. The NSV operated 8,000 day-nurseries by 1939 and funded holiday homes for mothers, distributed additional food for large families and was involved with a wide variety of other facilities.[7]

The Nazi social welfare provisions included old age insurance, rent supplements, unemployment and disability benefits, old-age homes and interest-free loans for married couples, along with healthcare insurance, which was not decreed mandatory until 1941.[8] One of the NSV branches, the Office of Institutional and Special Welfare, was responsible "for travellers' aid at railway stations; relief for ex-convicts; support for re-migrants from abroad; assistance for the physically disabled, hard-of-hearing, deaf, mute, and blind; relief for the elderly, homeless and alcoholics; and the fight against illicit drugs and epidemics".[9] The Office of Youth Relief, which had 30,000 branch offices by 1941, took the job of supervising "social workers, corrective training, mediation assistance" and dealing with judicial authorities to prevent juvenile delinquency.[10]

One of the NSV's premier activities was the Winter Relief of the German People, which coordinated an annual drive to collect charity for the poor under the slogan: "None shall starve or freeze". These social welfare programs represented a Hitlerian endeavor to lift the community above the individual while promoting the wellbeing of all bona fide citizens. As Hitler told a reporter in 1934, he was determined to give Germans "the highest possible standard of living".[11]

During World War II, the NSV took over more and more governmental responsibilities, especially in the fields of child and youth labor. The expenses for the Nazi’s welfare state continued to mount, increasing significantly just before and after the beginning of World War II. In three budgetary years, the funds required by Germany's social welfare programs had more than doubled from 640.4 million Reichmarks in 1938 to 1.395 billion Reichmarks by 1941.[12]

The NSV was also involved in the distribution of soup to the citizens of Warsaw after the city's surrender; Jews were excluded from the effort, which focused on the propaganda value.[13]

After Nazi Germany's defeat in World War II, the American Military Government issued a special law outlawing the Nazi Party and all of its branches. Known as Law number five, this denazification decree disbanded the NSV, like all organizations linked to the Nazi Party. The social welfare organizations had to be established anew during the postwar reconstruction of both West and East Germany.

Anyone who calls themselves a socialist.?.youre practically a nazi already
And just like the nazis everything is about race with you uneducated brainwashed leftwing socialist morons

You're so fucking dumbed down 2nd and 3rd worlders think you're jokes.. to them ...you're pathetic desperate laughing stocks to be used and exploited

View attachment 343954

Please point to where you see me claiming Nazis weren't socialists? Go ahead. My argument was that it wasn't the social aspect of Nazism that gave it it's notoriety. But rather the nationalistic and racial aspect of them. Feel free to go through your own post and tell me specifically what you find objectionable about their social programs.

Mein Kampf was not so much about Socialism as it was about racism and German exceptionalism. Unless you want me to draw the obvious parallels between Trumpism and Nazism, I'd suggest you refrain from trying to put up a strawman argument.

Tell me which joke of a European nation you're from ...or decaying anglosphere nation and I will show you a creeping authoritarian nazi like nightmare thats only getting worse ...mr democatic socialist

Go ahead which loser nazi country run by fags and women are ya from

Oh lord, why is it so hard for some people to remain civil on the internet? See, I wouldn't mind answering questions to someone who can have a civil conversation between opposing views. Then questions are the way people who don't agree can at least learn to understand each other somewhat. However, I see no point in answering questions of someone who can't make it through 2 posts without starting to name-call. I know that trolling is fun for some people, but I just find it tedious. Maybe one day you'll reach the age of 6, which is the maximum age I have allowed this level of discourse from my kid and we can try talking again.

They erased my fu 2nd post to the educated moron who was gonna show us how drumph was hitler ...gtfoh mods
Did the nazi eurotrash hit the report button lol good

These people are idiots

I don't report anything ever. I prefer to let stupidity speak for itself.

 

[Likkmee]

Do You Guy's Know The Difference Between:-

Most of us guys know the difference between “guys” (plural, more than one guy) and “guy's” (possessive, referring to something that belongs to one guy).
The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

Brilliant footnote. Brilliant.
I would add that "guy's" could refer to the contraction of "guy is" as in The guy's crazy."

Nitpick all you like rather than answer the questions.

While Rome burns..... eh!

That's not nitpicking! It points out that you are uneducated goober!

Ha Ha.... How YOU can say that having voted for Trump is any ones guess!

The correct term is "anyone's".

What is your native language because English is sure not your best effort? Yet you try to argue definitions

How'd ya'll bust a nut after all them that years on a boat ?

 

[ding]

"...The turn introduced by the Renaissance was probably inevitable historically: the Middle Ages had come to a natural end by exhaustion, having become an intolerable despotic repression of man's physical nature in favor of the spiritual one. But then we recoiled from the spirit and embraced all that is material, excessively and incommensurately. The humanistic way of thinking, which had proclaimed itself our guide, did not admit the existence of intrinsic evil in man, nor did it see any task higher than the attainment of happiness on earth. It started modern Western civilization on the dangerous trend of worshiping man and his material needs.

Everything beyond physical well-being and the accumulation of material goods, all other human requirements and characteristics of a subtle and higher nature, were left outside the area of attention of state and social systems, as if human life did not have any higher meaning. Thus gaps were left open for evil, and its drafts blow freely today. Mere freedom per se does not in the least solve all the problems of human life and even adds a number of new ones.

And yet in early democracies, as in American democracy at the time of its birth, all individual human rights were granted on the ground that man is God's creature. That is, freedom was given to the individual conditionally, in the assumption of his constant religious responsibility. Such was the heritage of the preceding one thousand years. Two hundred or even fifty years ago, it would have seemed quite impossible, in America, that an individual be granted boundless freedom with no purpose, simply for the satisfaction of his whims.

Subsequently, however, all such limitations were eroded everywhere in the West; a total emancipation occurred from the moral heritage of Christian centuries with their great reserves of mercy and sacrifice. State systems were becoming ever more materialistic. The West has finally achieved the rights of man, and even excess, but man's sense of responsibility to God and society has grown dimmer and dimmer. In the past decades, the legalistic selfishness of the Western approach to the world has reached its peak and the world has found itself in a harsh spiritual crisis and a political impasse. All the celebrated technological achievements of progress, including the conquest of outer space, do not redeem the twentieth century's moral poverty, which no one could have imagined even as late as the nineteenth century.

As humanism in its development was becoming more and more materialistic, it also increasingly allowed concepts to be used first by socialism and then by communism, so that Karl Marx was able to say, in 1844, that "communism is naturalized humanism."

This statement has proved to be not entirely unreasonable. One does not see the same stones in the foundations of an eroded humanism and of any type of socialism: boundless materialism; freedom from religion and religious responsibility (which under Communist regimes attains the stage of antireligious dictatorship); concentration on social structures with an allegedly scientific approach. (This last is typical of both the Age of Enlightenment and of Marxism.) It is no accident that all of communism's rhetorical vows revolve around Man (with a capital M) and his earthly happiness. At first glance it seems an ugly parallel: common traits in the thinking and way of life of today's West and today's East? But such is the logic of materialistic development.

The interrelationship is such, moreover, that the current of materialism which is farthest to the left, and is hence the most consistent, always proves to be stronger, more attractive, and victorious. Humanism which has lost its Christian heritage cannot prevail in this competition. Thus during the past centuries and especially in recent decades, as the process became more acute, the alignment of forces was as follows: Liberalism was inevitably pushed aside by radicalism, radicalism had to surrender to socialism, and socialism could not stand up to communism.

The communist regime in the East could endure and grow due to the enthusiastic support from an enormous number of Western intellectuals who (feeling the kinship!) refused to see communism's crimes, and when they no longer could do so, they tried to justify these crimes. The problem persists: In our Eastern countries, communism has suffered a complete ideological defeat; it is zero and less than zero. And yet Western intellectuals still look at it with considerable interest and empathy, and this is precisely what makes it so immensely difficult for the West to withstand the East.

I am not examining the case of a disaster brought on by a world war and the changes which it would produce in society. But as long as we wake up every morning under a peaceful sun, we must lead an everyday life. Yet there is a disaster which is already very much with us. I am referring to the calamity of an autonomous, irreligious humanistic consciousness.

It has made man the measure of all things on earth — imperfect man, who is never free of pride, self-interest, envy, vanity, and dozens of other defects. We are now paying for the mistakes which were not properly appraised at the beginning of the journey. On the way from the Renaissance to our days we have enriched our experience, but we have lost the concept of a Supreme Complete Entity which used to restrain our passions and our irresponsibility.

We have placed too much hope in politics and social reforms, only to find out that we were being deprived of our most precious possession: our spiritual life. It is trampled by the party mob in the East, by the commercial one in the West. This is the essence of the crisis: the split in the world is less terrifying than the similarity of the disease afflicting its main sections.

If, as claimed by humanism, man were born only to be happy, he would not be born to die. Since his body is doomed to death, his task on earth evidently must be more spiritual: not a total engrossment in everyday life, not the search for the best ways to obtain material goods and then their carefree consumption. It has to be the fulfillment of a permanent, earnest duty so that one's life journey may become above all an experience of moral growth: to leave life a better human being than one started it.

It is imperative to reappraise the scale of the usual human values; its present incorrectness is astounding. It is not possible that assessment of the President's performance should be reduced to the question of how much money one makes or to the availability of gasoline. Only by the voluntary nurturing in ourselves of freely accepted and serene self-restraint can mankind rise above the world stream of materialism.

Today it would be retrogressive to hold on to the ossified formulas of the Enlightenment. Such social dogmatism leaves us helpless before the trials of our times.

Even if we are spared destruction by war, life will have to change in order not to perish on its own. We cannot avoid reassessing the fundamental definitions of human life and society. Is it true that man is above everything? Is there no Superior Spirit above him? Is it right that man's life and society's activities should be ruled by material expansion above all? Is it permissible to promote such expansion to the detriment of our integral spiritual life?

If the world has not approached its end, it has reached a major watershed in history, equal in importance to the turn from the Middle Ages to the Renaissance. It will demand from us a spiritual blaze; we shall have to rise to a new height of vision, to a new level of life, where our physical nature will not be cursed, as in the Middle Ages, but even more importantly, our spiritual being will not be trampled upon, as in the Modern Era.

The ascension is similar to climbing onto the next anthropological stage. No one on earth has any other way left but — upward."

Alexander I. Solzhenitsyn -- A World Split Apart — Commencement Address Delivered At Harvard University, June 8, 1978

www.orthodoxytoday.org

 

[DustyInfinity]

Can someone explain why the left thinks fascism is far right? I know everybody tells them that. Communism and National Fascism seem very similar to me. Autocratic central government ruling people with little or no representation. Aren't they both all powerful governments run amok. Isn't anarchy the natural opposite of autocratic dictatorships?

 

[DustyInfinity]

"...The turn introduced by the Renaissance was probably inevitable historically: the Middle Ages had come to a natural end by exhaustion, having become an intolerable despotic repression of man's physical nature in favor of the spiritual one. But then we recoiled from the spirit and embraced all that is material, excessively and incommensurately. The humanistic way of thinking, which had proclaimed itself our guide, did not admit the existence of intrinsic evil in man, nor did it see any task higher than the attainment of happiness on earth. It started modern Western civilization on the dangerous trend of worshiping man and his material needs.

Everything beyond physical well-being and the accumulation of material goods, all other human requirements and characteristics of a subtle and higher nature, were left outside the area of attention of state and social systems, as if human life did not have any higher meaning. Thus gaps were left open for evil, and its drafts blow freely today. Mere freedom per se does not in the least solve all the problems of human life and even adds a number of new ones.

And yet in early democracies, as in American democracy at the time of its birth, all individual human rights were granted on the ground that man is God's creature. That is, freedom was given to the individual conditionally, in the assumption of his constant religious responsibility. Such was the heritage of the preceding one thousand years. Two hundred or even fifty years ago, it would have seemed quite impossible, in America, that an individual be granted boundless freedom with no purpose, simply for the satisfaction of his whims.

Subsequently, however, all such limitations were eroded everywhere in the West; a total emancipation occurred from the moral heritage of Christian centuries with their great reserves of mercy and sacrifice. State systems were becoming ever more materialistic. The West has finally achieved the rights of man, and even excess, but man's sense of responsibility to God and society has grown dimmer and dimmer. In the past decades, the legalistic selfishness of the Western approach to the world has reached its peak and the world has found itself in a harsh spiritual crisis and a political impasse. All the celebrated technological achievements of progress, including the conquest of outer space, do not redeem the twentieth century's moral poverty, which no one could have imagined even as late as the nineteenth century.

As humanism in its development was becoming more and more materialistic, it also increasingly allowed concepts to be used first by socialism and then by communism, so that Karl Marx was able to say, in 1844, that "communism is naturalized humanism."

This statement has proved to be not entirely unreasonable. One does not see the same stones in the foundations of an eroded humanism and of any type of socialism: boundless materialism; freedom from religion and religious responsibility (which under Communist regimes attains the stage of antireligious dictatorship); concentration on social structures with an allegedly scientific approach. (This last is typical of both the Age of Enlightenment and of Marxism.) It is no accident that all of communism's rhetorical vows revolve around Man (with a capital M) and his earthly happiness. At first glance it seems an ugly parallel: common traits in the thinking and way of life of today's West and today's East? But such is the logic of materialistic development.

The interrelationship is such, moreover, that the current of materialism which is farthest to the left, and is hence the most consistent, always proves to be stronger, more attractive, and victorious. Humanism which has lost its Christian heritage cannot prevail in this competition. Thus during the past centuries and especially in recent decades, as the process became more acute, the alignment of forces was as follows: Liberalism was inevitably pushed aside by radicalism, radicalism had to surrender to socialism, and socialism could not stand up to communism.

The communist regime in the East could endure and grow due to the enthusiastic support from an enormous number of Western intellectuals who (feeling the kinship!) refused to see communism's crimes, and when they no longer could do so, they tried to justify these crimes. The problem persists: In our Eastern countries, communism has suffered a complete ideological defeat; it is zero and less than zero. And yet Western intellectuals still look at it with considerable interest and empathy, and this is precisely what makes it so immensely difficult for the West to withstand the East.

I am not examining the case of a disaster brought on by a world war and the changes which it would produce in society. But as long as we wake up every morning under a peaceful sun, we must lead an everyday life. Yet there is a disaster which is already very much with us. I am referring to the calamity of an autonomous, irreligious humanistic consciousness.

It has made man the measure of all things on earth — imperfect man, who is never free of pride, self-interest, envy, vanity, and dozens of other defects. We are now paying for the mistakes which were not properly appraised at the beginning of the journey. On the way from the Renaissance to our days we have enriched our experience, but we have lost the concept of a Supreme Complete Entity which used to restrain our passions and our irresponsibility.

We have placed too much hope in politics and social reforms, only to find out that we were being deprived of our most precious possession: our spiritual life. It is trampled by the party mob in the East, by the commercial one in the West. This is the essence of the crisis: the split in the world is less terrifying than the similarity of the disease afflicting its main sections.

If, as claimed by humanism, man were born only to be happy, he would not be born to die. Since his body is doomed to death, his task on earth evidently must be more spiritual: not a total engrossment in everyday life, not the search for the best ways to obtain material goods and then their carefree consumption. It has to be the fulfillment of a permanent, earnest duty so that one's life journey may become above all an experience of moral growth: to leave life a better human being than one started it.

It is imperative to reappraise the scale of the usual human values; its present incorrectness is astounding. It is not possible that assessment of the President's performance should be reduced to the question of how much money one makes or to the availability of gasoline. Only by the voluntary nurturing in ourselves of freely accepted and serene self-restraint can mankind rise above the world stream of materialism.

Today it would be retrogressive to hold on to the ossified formulas of the Enlightenment. Such social dogmatism leaves us helpless before the trials of our times.

Even if we are spared destruction by war, life will have to change in order not to perish on its own. We cannot avoid reassessing the fundamental definitions of human life and society. Is it true that man is above everything? Is there no Superior Spirit above him? Is it right that man's life and society's activities should be ruled by material expansion above all? Is it permissible to promote such expansion to the detriment of our integral spiritual life?

If the world has not approached its end, it has reached a major watershed in history, equal in importance to the turn from the Middle Ages to the Renaissance. It will demand from us a spiritual blaze; we shall have to rise to a new height of vision, to a new level of life, where our physical nature will not be cursed, as in the Middle Ages, but even more importantly, our spiritual being will not be trampled upon, as in the Modern Era.

The ascension is similar to climbing onto the next anthropological stage. No one on earth has any other way left but — upward."

Alexander I. Solzhenitsyn -- A World Split Apart — Commencement Address Delivered At Harvard University, June 8, 1978

www.orthodoxytoday.org

You sir, have probably forgotten more about philosophy than I ever knew. Back in the day, I was quite taken with it too. If you could, would you provide a politics reading list. Thanks

 

[forkup]

Can someone explain why the left thinks fascism is far right? I know everybody tells them that. Communism and National Fascism seem very similar to me. Autocratic central government ruling people with little or no representation. Aren't they both all powerful governments run amok. Isn't anarchy the natural opposite of autocratic dictatorships?

The left–right political spectrum is a system of classifying political positions, ideologies and parties from social equality on the left to social hierarchy on the right. ... In France, where the terms originated, the left has been called "the party of movement" and the right "the party of order". Understanding the political spectrum : Unifrog Blog

It's simply a way of classifying. Basically between progressive and conservative. It's not that the left thinks it is that way, it's simply the traits by which classification is decided. There are other ways to classify but this particular one puts Fascism on the right side since they were most definitely conservative (they glorified the past).

 

[DustyInfinity]

Can someone explain why the left thinks fascism is far right? I know everybody tells them that. Communism and National Fascism seem very similar to me. Autocratic central government ruling people with little or no representation. Aren't they both all powerful governments run amok. Isn't anarchy the natural opposite of autocratic dictatorships?

The left–right political spectrum is a system of classifying political positions, ideologies and parties from social equality on the left to social hierarchy on the right. ... In France, where the terms originated, the left has been called "the party of movement" and the right "the party of order". Understanding the political spectrum : Unifrog Blog

It's simply a way of classifying. Basically between progressive and conservative. It's not that the left thinks it is that way, it's simply the traits by which classification is decided. There are other ways to classify but this particular one puts Fascism on the right side since they were most definitely conservative (they glorified the past).

Thanks. That is a strange way to look at things. Order and Equality on opposite sides doesn't make any sense. Are they assuming order and tryanny are the same thing? When I think left vs right, I think of small government vs government dominance. They created a classification where Tryanny is on both sides. Is their some sort of widely recognized scale based on personal freedom?

 

[forkup]

Can someone explain why the left thinks fascism is far right? I know everybody tells them that. Communism and National Fascism seem very similar to me. Autocratic central government ruling people with little or no representation. Aren't they both all powerful governments run amok. Isn't anarchy the natural opposite of autocratic dictatorships?

The left–right political spectrum is a system of classifying political positions, ideologies and parties from social equality on the left to social hierarchy on the right. ... In France, where the terms originated, the left has been called "the party of movement" and the right "the party of order". Understanding the political spectrum : Unifrog Blog

It's simply a way of classifying. Basically between progressive and conservative. It's not that the left thinks it is that way, it's simply the traits by which classification is decided. There are other ways to classify but this particular one puts Fascism on the right side since they were most definitely conservative (they glorified the past).

Thanks. That is a strange way to look at things. Order and Equality on opposite sides doesn't make any sense. Are they assuming order and tryanny are the same thing? When I think left vs right, I think of small government vs government dominance. They created a classification where Tryanny is on both sides. Is their some sort of widely recognized scale based on personal freedom?

Sort of. By adding another axis you can classify more precisely. https://www.politicalcompass.org/analysis2
In a way, it's a bit silly. Just because you are in roughly the same vicinity of some spectrum doesn't mean you are guilty by association. It's the problem I have with people on the right classifying Communism with Social Democracy. But also lumping Republicans as Nazis.

 

[sakinago]

Do You Guy's Know The Difference Between:-

Most of us guys know the difference between “guys” (plural, more than one guy) and “guy's” (possessive, referring to something that belongs to one guy).
The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

Brilliant footnote. Brilliant.
I would add that "guy's" could refer to the contraction of "guy is" as in The guy's crazy."

Nitpick all you like rather than answer the questions.

While Rome burns..... eh!

That's not nitpicking! It points out that you are uneducated goober!

Ha Ha.... How YOU can say that having voted for Trump is any ones guess!

The correct term is "anyone's".

What is your native language because English is sure not your best effort? Yet you try to argue definitions

Admiral Rockwell Tory;;;;;Admiral Rockwell T..... Admir...... say it soft and its almost like praying!

Why do you pretend your English?
Why do you refuse to state your location - is it that bad a shit hole?

Perhaps I'm dislec......dizlek...... dys......... fancy giving us who can;t spell a name like that to describe us, taking the piss or what.....bastards!

Dont Taz Me Bro, how is it that my thread about Jon Jones confronting antifa members gets moved out of politics within a minute of posting, but this thread has been on politics since lunch? This is the shit I’m talking about.

Nevermind, didn’t see the OP, for whatever reason it jumped me to people talking about dyslexia, and I thought it was the OP