Do you believe in evil?

[Luddly Neddite]

Do you think that some things/people are inherently evil, that all of us may have the seed of evil within us?

Objectively/empirically, no. As a word used to relate to an action, yes.

Empirically, there is no good or evil, only actions and consequences. The good or evil is relative. As with the differentiating between a soldier killing in a war, and a terrorist killing while not a solider or in a war. Identical action, different terminology though. So one might be said to be good (if the soldier's on 'your side') while the other's said to be 'evil' if the terrorist isn't on your side. But the relativity is demonstrated by how 'our side' is always the 'good guys,' and 'their side' is always the bad guys. Terrorists aren't gunning each other down haphazardly because from their pov they're the 'good guys.' And we're the bad guys.

God's another example. People who believe in God say he's 'good.' But if you or I wiped out every living thing in a city, or the whole world we'd probably be called 'evil.' Same action, same consequence, but different definition. That's the relative nature and why neither term is objectively sound.

How do you explain the fact that ISIL is killing people who they claim worship the devil under your though patterns that evil does not exist? Why do you prefer to live in a world that denies facts?

There have always been groups who used their own beliefs as an excuse to kill - including the United States.

"Evil" is in the eye of the believer.

They believe we are evil and we believe they are.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Judaism teaches we can be good sometimes or evil we have the choice. There is No concept in Judaism of original sin. Another thing to take into account is mental illness as persons driving force of destruction , thus what we call evil

Judaism and mental illness----more man made concepts.

Not just Judaism. All religion.

And mental illness or health is simply a measurement of what the society finds to be acceptable behavior.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

The moral decay of a society is inevitable when evil becomes acceptable while what is morally right and pure becomes intolerable.

-Jeri

 

[dilloduck]

The moral decay of a society is inevitable when evil becomes acceptable while what is morally right and pure becomes intolerable.

-Jeri

Societies have come and go for thousands of years----change is inevitable.

 

[Slag]

For some evil is a choice, for others it is a compulsion, then there are those for which evil is a state of being.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

The moral decay of a society is inevitable when evil becomes acceptable while what is morally right and pure becomes intolerable.

-Jeri

Societies have come and go for thousands of years----change is inevitable.

Israel has been restored and she has a history going back 4,000 years so that is not always the case, Dilloduck. Besides.... there's always a "remnant". America is no different.

 

[dilloduck]

The moral decay of a society is inevitable when evil becomes acceptable while what is morally right and pure becomes intolerable.

-Jeri

Societies have come and go for thousands of years----change is inevitable.

Israel has been restored and she has a history going back 4,000 years so that is not always the case, Dilloduck. Besides.... there's always a "remnant". America is no different.

Restored after being destroyed over and over.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

I'm glad we agree, Dilloduck. Have a nice evening. - J.

 

[DriftingSand]

Do you think that some things/people are inherently evil, that all of us may have the seed of evil within us?

I don't believe in evil. I believe in mental illness.

Do you believe that every person who commits a violent act did so as a result of mental illness and should get psychological treatment in lieu of jail time?

 

[skye]

We live in a dual world, Light and darkness, day an night and yes... good an evil.

Plato, the Greek philosopher said - "There must always remain something that is antagonistic to good."

But, at the end of the day and the winner in this battle of duality, will always be Light or Good or God...call It what you like.

And so finally...to answer the question, yes of course, no doubt there is evil in this world.


To deny this fact would be stupid.

 

[Slag]

We live in a dual world, Light and darkness, day an night and yes... good an evil.

Plato, the Greek philosopher said - "There must always remain something that is antagonistic to good."

But, at the end of the day and the winner in this battle of duality, will always be Light or Good or God...call It what you like.

And so finally...to answer the question, yes of course, no doubt there is evil in this world.


To deny this fact would be stupid.

Without Evil there would be no measure of what is considered Good. They are interdependent.

 

[Katzndogz]

I have always believed in evil but more as a concept. There is good and bad. Until obama. The breadth and depth of evil emanating from his entity is breathtaking. It's as if there really was a Satan who gathered up all the evil in the universe and embodied that evil in one single construct.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I LOVE THIS SCRIPTURE===10 And the devil who had deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are; and they shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Revelation 20:10

Oh jeez.

"... tormented day and night, for ever and ever ..."

That's the very definition of evil.

Ignore him, he is the most bobble headed poster on the board.

I hope that doesn't violate the rules of the CDZ.

Just to be clear, I am talking about GISMYS, not Luddly.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Objectively/empirically, no. As a word used to relate to an action, yes.

Empirically, there is no good or evil, only actions and consequences. The good or evil is relative. As with the differentiating between a soldier killing in a war, and a terrorist killing while not a solider or in a war. Identical action, different terminology though. So one might be said to be good (if the soldier's on 'your side') while the other's said to be 'evil' if the terrorist isn't on your side. But the relativity is demonstrated by how 'our side' is always the 'good guys,' and 'their side' is always the bad guys. Terrorists aren't gunning each other down haphazardly because from their pov they're the 'good guys.' And we're the bad guys.

God's another example. People who believe in God say he's 'good.' But if you or I wiped out every living thing in a city, or the whole world we'd probably be called 'evil.' Same action, same consequence, but different definition. That's the relative nature and why neither term is objectively sound.

How do you explain the fact that ISIL is killing people who they claim worship the devil under your though patterns that evil does not exist? Why do you prefer to live in a world that denies facts?

There have always been groups who used their own beliefs as an excuse to kill - including the United States.

"Evil" is in the eye of the believer.

They believe we are evil and we believe they are.

Evil is not in the eye of the believer, it is an objective fact. Hitler was evil, so was the Khmer Rouge. Evil is something that exists, and pretending it doesn't leaves you sitting around waiting for someone to chop your head off because they are evil, and you want to pretend that they can learn to live with you if you just say the right thing.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Judaism teaches we can be good sometimes or evil we have the choice. There is No concept in Judaism of original sin. Another thing to take into account is mental illness as persons driving force of destruction , thus what we call evil

Judaism and mental illness----more man made concepts.

Not just Judaism. All religion.

And mental illness or health is simply a measurement of what the society finds to be acceptable behavior.

Seriously?

I happen to think that just about everything the APA does is snake oil, but even I have to admit that there are people who are mentally ill. I have known people who are schizophrenic, and can tell you flat out that acceptable behavior has nothing to do with their problem. I suggest you take some time to volunteer at a homeless shelter for a few weeks, you might learn the difference between reality and your misinformed outlook on the world.

 

[September]

Good and Evil are subjective delusions that do not exist.
However...
Such delusions have their uses.​

Really?

How do you explain ISIL? Are we all being deluded into thinking that what they are doing is evil? Do you honestly think an organization that keeps women as slaves because they are have different beliefs are moral in some way? If so, I would be happy to buy you a ticket so you could fly over and explain your concept of good and evil being fictions of the imagination to them. I am sure that they, not actually being evil, will be happy to accept your religious beliefs with open arms.

Always in black in white with you humans it must be. Always must it be "good" or "evil".

ISIL is not "evil". It is a group of people that does things that them or other humans might perceive to be "good" or "evil." None of them are incapable of doing the things that you people perceive to be "good." In reality, none of their alleged "evil" actions are objectively "evil", only subjectively "evil" based upon your delusions of morality.

The act of keeping women, or any humans, as slaves is not "evil"... but it can be perceived to be "evil" by someone who's moral perspective deems it so.

I do not feel the need to have my "religious beliefs" accepted by anyone. If I were to respectfully and privately engage in intelligent discussion with the wisest of ISIL's leaders, I'm sure that they would agree that "good" and "evil" do not exist, but that they are necessary delusions for the masses.

If ISIL attempted to impose their religion on me, I would gladly open my mind to what I could learn from Islam. I already find it to be a beautiful religion, and I already worship the same God, and believe in the same Angels and Djinn. The only difference really is the laws, rituals, and some slightly different "perspectives".

Why would I allow myself to be "converted"?

Because to truly understand a religion, one cannot look at it from the outside-in, but from the inside-out.

In the O9A, we call this "insight roles".

When we truly study a religion, we "convert" to it fully to learn all that we can from it... even that which goes against what we feel is our Nature. Through willpower, that religion's God(s) and laws and and Weltanschauung and belief system becomes your reality... for as long as necessary to extract and absorb as much wisdom, power, and experience from it as possible.

In Chaos Magick, it is called "paradigm shifts" although that usually refers to briefly accepting the Weltanschauung and/ or pantheon and belief systems of a religion for a specific ritual or working, using an extreme amount of willpower to convince yourself to believe in it fully... and then reverting back to your previous beliefs/ religion/ spirituality/ Weltanschauung when the ritual or working is over.

If one seeks to explore the use of paradigm shifts, it is best to have first truly enlightened yourself to that particular religion from the inside-out through the masterful use of insight roles.

An insight role or a paradigm shift is similar to a "split personality", and from a certain perspective... it can be just that. Except it is controlled through Willpower.

And once you have become familiar with insight roles and paradigm shifts, and have absorbed enough knowlege and wisdom about the forces Above, Below and Within... then one can truly begin to explore such things as Spiritual Invocation aka Spiritual "Possession".

I do not care if people consider my spiritual practices "morally" acceptable. I do not strive to be what others consider to be "good". I do not strive to be what others consider to be "evil". I strive only to follow my own True Will while seeking guidance along the way from what I perceive to be the forces Above and Below and Within.

​

 

[Luddly Neddite]

How do you explain the fact that ISIL is killing people who they claim worship the devil under your though patterns that evil does not exist? Why do you prefer to live in a world that denies facts?

There have always been groups who used their own beliefs as an excuse to kill - including the United States.

"Evil" is in the eye of the believer.

They believe we are evil and we believe they are.

Evil is not in the eye of the believer, it is an objective fact. Hitler was evil, so was the Khmer Rouge. Evil is something that exists, and pretending it doesn't leaves you sitting around waiting for someone to chop your head off because they are evil, and you want to pretend that they can learn to live with you if you just say the right thing.

But they did not see themselves as evil.

That's my point - it really is in the eye of the beholder.

Another example - Somali pirates. We think they're nothing more than the worst kind of criminal but, if every way to make an honest living was taken away from you, what would you be willing to do to feed your family?

10 Things You Didn't Know About Somali Pirates - WSJ

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Good and Evil are subjective delusions that do not exist.
However...
Such delusions have their uses.​

Really?

How do you explain ISIL? Are we all being deluded into thinking that what they are doing is evil? Do you honestly think an organization that keeps women as slaves because they are have different beliefs are moral in some way? If so, I would be happy to buy you a ticket so you could fly over and explain your concept of good and evil being fictions of the imagination to them. I am sure that they, not actually being evil, will be happy to accept your religious beliefs with open arms.

Same thing I said before - Of course they're evil by our standards but they think they're doing what is necessary to insure their survival.

Needless to say, I'm not saying they (or the pirates) should be allowed to get away with it. I'm just saying they're pov is valid to them.

Just as ours is to us.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Good and Evil are subjective delusions that do not exist.
However...
Such delusions have their uses.

Really?

How do you explain ISIL? Are we all being deluded into thinking that what they are doing is evil? Do you honestly think an organization that keeps women as slaves because they are have different beliefs are moral in some way? If so, I would be happy to buy you a ticket so you could fly over and explain your concept of good and evil being fictions of the imagination to them. I am sure that they, not actually being evil, will be happy to accept your religious beliefs with open arms.

Always in black in white with you humans it must be. Always must it be "good" or "evil".​

Am I supposed to believe you are a dog or something? You are a human being, just like everyone else that posts on this board. Keep your fucking delusions to yourself.

I never said that everything has to be good or evil. In fact, I happen to know that lots of thing are neither good or evil, I just pointed out the truth that bothers you so much, evil is real.

ISIL is not "evil". It is a group of people that does things that them or other humans might perceive to be "good" or "evil." None of them are incapable of doing the things that you people perceive to be "good." In reality, none of their alleged "evil" actions are objectively "evil", only subjectively "evil" based upon your delusions of morality.

The act of keeping women, or any humans, as slaves is not "evil"... but it can be perceived to be "evil" by someone who's moral perspective deems it so.

I do not feel the need to have my "religious beliefs" accepted by anyone. If I were to respectfully and privately engage in intelligent discussion with the wisest of ISIL's leaders, I'm sure that they would agr that "good" and "evil" do not exist, but that they are necessary delusions for the masses.

If ISIL attempted to impose their religion on me, I would gladly open my mind to what I could learn from Islam. I already find it to be a beautiful religion, and I already worship the same God, and believe in the same Angels and Djinn. The only difference really is the laws, rituals, and some slightly different "perspectives".

Why would I allow myself to be "converted"?

Because to truly understand a religion, one cannot look at it from the outside-in, but from the inside-out.

In the O9A, we call this "insight roles".

When we truly study a religion, we "convert" to it fully to learn all that we can from it... even that which goes against what we feel is our Nature. Through willpower, that religion's God(s) and laws and and Weltanschauung and belief system becomes your reality... for as long as necessary to extract and absorb as much wisdom, power, and experience from it as possible.

In Chaos Magick, it is called "paradigm shifts" although that usually refers to briefly accepting the Weltanschauung and/ or pantheon and belief systems of a religion for a specific ritual or working, using an extreme amount of willpower to convince yourself to believe in it fully... and then reverting back to your previous beliefs/ religion/ spirituality/ Weltanschauung when the ritual or working is over.

If one seeks to explore the use of paradigm shifts, it is best to have first truly enlightened yourself to that particular religion from the inside-out through the masterful use of insight roles.

An insight role or a paradigm shift is similar to a "split personality", and from a certain perspective... it can be just that. Except it is controlled through Willpower.

And once you have become familiar with insight roles and paradigm shifts, and have absorbed enough knowlege and wisdom about the forces Above, Below and Within... then one can truly begin to explore such things as Spiritual Invocation aka Spiritual "Possession".

I do not care if people consider my spiritual practices "morally" acceptable. I do not strive to be what others consider to be "good". I do not strive to be what others consider to be "evil". I strive only to follow my own True Will while seeking guidance along the way from what I perceive to be the forces Above and Below and Within.

Like I said, I will be happy to buy you a ticket to go over there and tell them you beliefs to their face. Feel free to prove they aren't evil by taking me up on my offer.

By the way, chaos magic doesn't exist, Scarlet Witch was actually using mutant abilities to change reality. Maybe you should read more comics.


​

 

[Quantum Windbag]

There have always been groups who used their own beliefs as an excuse to kill - including the United States.

"Evil" is in the eye of the believer.

They believe we are evil and we believe they are.

Evil is not in the eye of the believer, it is an objective fact. Hitler was evil, so was the Khmer Rouge. Evil is something that exists, and pretending it doesn't leaves you sitting around waiting for someone to chop your head off because they are evil, and you want to pretend that they can learn to live with you if you just say the right thing.

But they did not see themselves as evil.

That's my point - it really is in the eye of the beholder.

Another example - Somali pirates. We think they're nothing more than the worst kind of criminal but, if every way to make an honest living was taken away from you, what would you be willing to do to feed your family?

10 Things You Didn't Know About Somali Pirates - WSJ

I don't care how they saw themselves, truly insane people do not see themselves as insane either. Does that make them sane? Of course not, neither does not seeing yourself as evil when you are evil make you good. Good and evil are objective standards, and are not subject to evil people not seeing themselves as evil.

By the way, oh he who tries to change the subject, I never said that the Somali pirates are evil. That makes you bringing them up irrelevant to the conversation we are having, which is pretty typical for you.