Do NOT Discriminate Against Straight Men

[definition]

Umm, REALLY. I post that, to see if you WOULD say what your real agenda was. But some people just believe their smarter than everyone else :moon4:

Then I post what my "real agenda" was and you say that I was trying to flatter myself. I see you're into irony as well.

 

[musicman]

This wasn't a poll. This was a study...

In the context of this discussion, it amounts to the same thing: the manipulation of data in order to arrive at a predetermined conclusion.

Ummm, sure. Just make sure you do that without that discredited tripe by Paul Cameron.

Ah - at last - we've arrived at the crux of your argument; you're mad at Paul Cameron. All right (ho hum) - let's hear it. How are his findings - which, incidentally, deal with actual, realized pedophilia - discredited?

(Hint: don't bother arguing that he was bounced out of the APA. This happened a full year AFTER he resigned in disgust from the organization, citing their disgraceful, craven cowardice before political pressure in the matters of homosexuality and abortion. The APA doesn't get to say, "You can't quit - you're fired!" - especially not a year after they accept his resignation).

(Hint #2: A later study, in which Dr. Cameron and others were involved, was found to have employed flawed methodology. This finding in no way negates his earlier study - the one that's got you so pissed. Homosexual apologists grasp at any and all straws in order to cast some pall of impropriety over Dr. Cameron, and I can't say I blame them. His findings are devastating to the cause of legitimizing homosexuality. But, they remain - unrefuted).

I don't honestly believe that straights are more prone to pedophillia than Gays.

Wow - that's really big of you, considering that it is - provably - the other way around.

Pedophiles usually have no adult sexual orientation and therefore are neither Gay nor straight. They molest who they have access to not based on gender.

There it is - your predetermined conclusion. Don't you just wish you could prove one word of that? You can't, though. There is not one iota of credible, scientific evidence to support your claim.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Each person has the human right to be judged on his own individual character and NOT group stereotypes regardless as to how true those stereotypes are as to the group as a whole.

Then you can't also ask for special concessions and legislation based on stereotypes of the group being OPPRESSED either.

 

[Nienna]

This wasn't a poll. This was a study of heterosexual male physiological response to pedophilic stimuli in contrast with adult stimuli as measured by a penile plethysmograph, a tool used by law enforcement to help determine in sex offenders should be released on parole in some communities.

We are not slaves to our physical and emotional feelings. We have MINDS. We should our minds to exert control over our feelings, for a greater good. In this case, stable society and the mental health of the next generation.

 

[Nienna]

Umm, that despite this high prevelance of pedophillia by heterosexual men that we should not discriminate against straight men.

As MusicMan insinuated, it is not a person's feelings and urges which render him unsafe. It is the choices and the actions one takes. Homosexuals are much more likely to ACT on urges, more likely to indulge their sick desires than heterosexuals. Heterosexuals may feel stimulated, but are more likely to repress carnal urges, to keep their ACTIONS on a healthy course.

 

[definition]

In the context of this discussion, it amounts to the same thing: the manipulation of data in order to arrive at a predetermined conclusion.

Did you read the study? No. I didn't think so.

Ah - at last - we've arrived at the crux of your argument; you're mad at Paul Cameron. All right (ho hum) - let's hear it. How are his findings - which, incidentally, deal with actual, realized pedophilia - discredited?

(Hint: don't bother arguing that he was bounced out of the APA. This happened a full year AFTER he resigned in disgust from the organization, citing their disgraceful, craven cowardice before political pressure in the matters of homosexuality and abortion. The APA doesn't get to say, "You can't quit - you're fired!" - especially not a year after they accept his resignation).

(Hint #2: A later study, in which Dr. Cameron and others were involved, was found to have employed flawed methodology. This finding in no way negates his earlier study - the one that's got you so pissed. Homosexual apologists grasp at any and all straws in order to cast some pall of impropriety over Dr. Cameron, and I can't say I blame them. His findings are devastating to the cause of legitimizing homosexuality. But, they remain - unrefuted).

First, let's tell the truth. Paul cameron NEVER conducted a study of pedophillia or child molestation. Paul Cameron reviewed studies that had been conducted by others and extrapolated from them with his primitive and churlish reasoning. The fatal flaws with Cameron's reviews is that he failed to draw distinctions between regressed pedophiles (or situational offenders) and fixated pedophiles. That is not his fault though. Cameron is a conservative and conservatives do not usually posses the intellectual capacity to draw distinctions and recognize nuances. But do try to follow me anyway.

A regressed pedophile does have an adult sexual oreintation. Their offenses are usually incestuous (father on daughter) and these offenders are almost always heterosexual. A fixated pedophile has no adult sexual orientation. Their attraction is to children, and gender is not an issue. Neither regressed pedophiles nor fixated pedophiles primarily choose their victims based on gender but on whom they have access to. The father molests his daughter, not simply because she's a girl but because he has access to her. The little league baseball coach molests his baseball player, not because he is a boy, but because he has acceess to him. The vast majority of molestations are male to female. There does appear to be a high number of male to male molestations, and Cameron, without any reasoning whatsoever, presumes that male to male molestations are committed by homosexuals. He probably draws this conclusion based on another faulty presumption that child molestation is driven primarily by concupiscence. Child molestation is not merely derived from sexual desire but also power and control, not unlike adult rapists. This would also account for male to male molestations in that a pedophile may get more of a power trip from molesting males rather than females. Nonetheless, no study has ever shown a high prevalence of homosexuals as perpetrators of child molestation.

Other researchers have taken different approaches, but have similarly failed to find a connection between homosexuality and child molestation. Dr. Carole Jenny reviewed 352 medical charts, representing all of the sexually abused children seen in the emergency room or child abuse clinic of a Denver children's hospital during a one-year period (from July 1, 1991 to June 30, 1992). The molester was a gay or lesbian adult in only 2 of the 269 cases in which an adult molester could be identified – fewer than 1% (Jenny et al., 1994).

In yet another approach to studying adult sexual attraction to children, some Canadian researchers observed how homosexual and heterosexual adult men responded to slides of males and females of various ages (child, pubescent, and mature adult). All of the research subjects were first screened to ensure that they preferred physically mature sexual partners. In some of the slides shown to subjects, the model was clothed; in others, he or she was nude. The slides were accompanied by audio recordings. The recordings paired with the nude models described an imaginary sexual interaction between the model and the subject. The recordings paired with the pictures of clothed models described the model engaging in neutral activities (e.g., swimming). To measure sexual arousal, changes in the subjects' penis volume were monitored while they watched the slides and listened to the audiotapes. The researchers found that homosexual males responded no more to male children than heterosexual males responded to female children (Freund et al., 1989).

Using the fixated-regressed distinction, Groth and Birnbaum (1978) studied 175 adult males who were convicted in Massachusetts of sexual assault against a child. None of the men had an exclusively homosexual adult sexual orientation. 83 (47%) were classified as "fixated;" 70 others (40%) were classified as regressed adult heterosexuals; the remaining 22 (13%) were classified as regressed adult bisexuals. Of the last group, Groth and Birnbaum observed that "in their adult relationships they engaged in sex on occasion with men as well as with women. However, in no case did this attraction to men exceed their preference for women....There were no men who were primarily sexually attracted to other adult males..." (p.180).

Cameron's claims hinge on the fallacious assumption that all male-male molestations are committed by homosexuals. Moreover, a careful reading of Cameron's paper reveals several false statements about the literature he claimed to have reviewed.

For example, he cited the Groth and Birnbaum (1978) study mentioned previously as evidencing a 3:2 ratio of "heterosexual" (i.e., female victim) to "homosexual" (i.e., male victim) molestations, and he noted that "54% of all the molestations in this study were performed by bisexual or homosexual practitioners" (p. 1231). However, Groth and Birnbaum reported that none of the men in their sample had an exclusively homosexual adult sexual orientation, and that none of the 22 bisexual men were more attracted to adult males than to adult females. The "54%" statistic reported by Cameron doesn't appear anywhere in the Groth and Birnbaum (1978) article, nor does Cameron explain its derivation.

Source

 

[definition]

As MusicMan insinuated, it is not a person's feelings and urges which render him unsafe. It is the choices and the actions one takes. Homosexuals are much more likely to ACT on urges, more likely to indulge their sick desires than heterosexuals. Heterosexuals may feel stimulated, but are more likely to repress carnal urges, to keep their ACTIONS on a healthy course.

Show me one iota of proof that the bolded is true. And don't cite the well discredtied Cameron review.

 

[definition]

Then you can't also ask for special concessions and legislation based on stereotypes of the group being OPPRESSED either.

Name a concession that Gay people have asked for, and note you said concession, not right.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Name a concession that Gay people have asked for, and note you said concession, not right.

A parade in their honor?

 

[definition]

A parade in their honor?

A parade ammounts to a concession? So, a St. Patrick's Day Parade is a concession to Irish people?

 

[rtwngAvngr]

A parade ammounts to a concession? So, a St. Patrick's Day Parade is a concession to Irish people?

Yes. And guess what, they drink a lot. If you want to celebrate sexual perversion don't be upset when you're called sexually perverse.

" Ya take the good, ya take the bad, ya take em both and there ya have, the facts of life, the facts of life. "

 

[definition]

Yes. And guess what, they drink a lot. If you want to celebrate sexual perversion don't be upset when you're called sexually perverse.

Homosexuality is not a sexual perversion. Oh, and how is a parade a concession?

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Homosexuality is not a sexual perversion. Oh, and how is a parade a concession?

Well, when they apply for the permit every year to have it, the city concedes.

 

[definition]

Well, when they apply for the permit every year to have it, the city concedes.

Now, you are just being specious.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Now, you are just being specious.

How so? A parade is a concession.

 

[definition]

How so? A parade is a concession.

Actually, parading could well be construed to fall under the right to peacefully assemble, especially a Gay pride parade since it does carry a political statement, therefore, it wouldn't be a concession to anything other than Gay people's constitutional rights.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Actually, parading could well be construed to fall under the right to peacefully assemble, especially a Gay pride parade since it does carry a political statement, therefore, it wouldn't be a concession to anything other than Gay people's constitutional rights.

But in the real word, parades need permits. And the city concedes to the parade when they approve the permit. Whoodathunk that definition would be a word parsing dipstick.

 

[definition]

But in the real word, parades need permits. And the city concedes to the parade when they approve the permit. Whoodathunk that definition would be a word parsing dipstick.

In the real world, all public political gatherings require a permit. It's not a concession to allow one to exercise his Constitutional rights (except in the broadest sense of the word concession).

 

[rtwngAvngr]

In the real world, all public political gatherings require a permit. It's not a concession to allow one to exercise his Constitutional rights.

Apparently it is, or there would be no permit approval process.

 

[musicman]

Did you read the study? No. I didn't think so.

I've read it - many times. You've brought nothing new to the discussion. You can parse, you can slice, you can bloviate, you can try to redefine the terms "homosexual" and "pedophile"; it is all for naught. At the end of the day, the fact remains that - while homosexuals comprise only 1-3% of the population, they commit 20-40% of all child molestations. That's a damning statistic, and you can't knock it down.