Dissecting John Stossel's Anti-Communist Lies

[Rigby5]

Right, because the brutal US enforced, UN economic sanctions had nothing to do with it

The "brutal" sanctions didn't stop him from buying food or growing food.

Impact on agriculture[edit]​

Throughout the Ba'ath Party's rule over Iraq, the agricultural sector had been under-performing. Those in the U.S. who supported sanctions believed that low agricultural production in Iraq (coupled with sanctions) would lead to "a hungry population", and "a hungry population was an unruly one".[44] The Iraqi government, which understood the serious effects the sanctions could have on Iraq, was able to increase agricultural output by 24 percent from 1990 to 1991. During the sanction years, the agricultural sector witnessed "a boom of unprecedented proportions". Iraq's Revolutionary Command Council (RCC) introduced several decrees during this period to increase agricultural performance. These decrees may be separated into three categories:

Oil-for-Food Programme[edit]​

Main article: Oil-for-Food Programme
As the humanitarian impact of the sanctions became a matter of international concern,[32] several UN resolutions were introduced that allowed Iraq to trade its oil for approved goods such as food and medicine. The earliest of these, Resolution 706 of 15 August 1991, allowed the sale of Iraqi oil in exchange for food,[21] which was reaffirmed by Resolution 712 in September 1991. The UN states that "The Government of Iraq declined these offers".[19] As a result, Iraq was effectively barred from exporting oil to the world market for several years.[21]

Wrong.
The whole economic blockade of Iraq was an illegal war crime to start with.
And we did not really allow any significant food shipment until around 1995.
And we decided how much Iraq would have to pay and what food we would allow.
It was evil, totally illegal, and we greatly profited by it.
Iraq has limited agricultural resources, so has to import food.

 

[westwall]

The problems with Venezuela have nothing to do with socialism.
Their oil is tar sands, so very difficult to extract.
Their government is not really socialist at all, but secret capitalists.

What a crock of shit. Maduro put his incompetent cronies in charge. They can't wipe their own asses.

That's the problem with socialism, there is no penalty for failure, until the citizenry rise up and kill you.

 

[Red Front]

Wrong.
The whole economic blockade of Iraq was an illegal war crime to start with.
And we did not really allow any significant food shipment until around 1995.
And we decided how much Iraq would have to pay and what food we would allow.
It was evil, totally illegal, and we greatly profited by it.
Iraq has limited agricultural resources, so has to import food.

Even before the war, they were importing 70% of their food. They were never food independent, so imagine under sanctions.

Right-wing sociopaths like Todd whine about Stalin supposedly slaughtering millions of innocent people, while ignoring the millions of innocent people murdered by capitalist-imperialists. The best response to todd, when he disingenuously starts crying about death tolls is this:

 

[Hum Dinger]

It's self evident that we will be forced by necessity to adopt a non-profit system of production, once production becomes automated enough, to replace most menial jobs, including many professional, white collar jobs as well. Technology will eventually replace wage-labor, hence the need for a non-profit system of production.



The "free loaders" are the capitalists who live off of other people's labor. Once advanced automation technology eliminates the need for wage labor in many different sectors of the economy, that will necessitate the adoption of a non-profit system of production. Without enough wage-labor, there aren't enough paying consumers or a large enough market worth investing in. And of course, we should also factor in the civil unrest that will ensue when tens of millions of Americans are unemployed, due to being replaced by technology. Without a certain degree of stability, there's no functioning economy.

It's hard to believe that you ever worked in a factory (CNC operator - Really?), if you believe that technology will ever replace labor completely. You seem to have a child's eye view of what factory work is like.

Anybody that's worked in a factory knows that every day brings new challenges and new decisions. People can't be replaced with dumb machines - which is what technology is and always will be.

Technology will create jobs for engineers, technicians, coders and operators. It will make line workers jobs easier and more precise but not eliminate them.

I fully agree that a very large number of 'Capitalists' are free loaders (especially the inherited). Most are not really 'Capitalists', they are 'opportunists'. The two have become confused.

Capitalism in the narrowest sense, is investing money to gain money. There must be a profit incentive for it to work - and it's vital to any economy. 'Opportunism' is an economic free for all that allows thievery on a massive level. Anything goes in the name of grabbing money.

While too much money is being directed to the owners at this time, there will always be a valid need for financial management. Financial management is a vital service - one that is too far overpaid in our society.

People will adopt to the new technologies. They will gain the appropriate job skills.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

• 
  Humanitarian Impact: The harsh reality remains that even with initiatives like the Oil-for-Food Programme, Iraq still faced severe shortages in essential items. Former UN Humanitarian Coordinator in Iraq, Denis Halliday, resigned in protest over what he termed a "genocidal" sanctions policy, stating the situation was destroying an entire society. According to Halliday, by 1998, 5,000 to 6,000 children were dying every month because of the impact of sanctions.
• Medicinal Restrictions: Some chemicals present in medicines were restricted due to potential dual-use in WMD development, depriving Iraqis from receiving the medical treatments that they needed to live. The sanctions disproportionately impacted civilians. Children, the elderly, and the sick, were the first to feel the effects. Between 1991 and 1998, the child mortality rate doubled in southern and central Iraq, with a significant chunk attributed to the sanctions.
• Infrastructure and Sanitation: After the first Gulf War, Iraq was in dire need of rebuilding. Sanctions made it nearly impossible to import necessary materials to repair critical infrastructure like electricity and water purification systems. As a result, waterborne diseases became rampant. The inability to import chlorine, led to further deterioration in the water quality. Consequently, cases of cholera, typhoid, and other waterborne diseases increased, leading to many deaths.
• Agricultural Sector: With a 70 percent dependency on imported foodstuff to cover the basic needs of the population, the Iraqi government was unable to provide the basic nutrition for its people as the UK and US governments were rigorously blocking and delaying vast amounts of vital supplies for survival. More than $5bn worth of supplies was blocked from entering Iraq in mid-2002. As a direct consequence of these policies, Iraq’s infrastructure – sewage, water, electricity, and oil systems – had been largely destroyed or incapacitated.

By 1995, the living conditions of the Iraqi population had degenerated to a point that experts around the world were warning of an imminent humanitarian catastrophe of historical proportion. The “Oil-for-Food Programme” by the UN Security Council, presented as generous humanitarian response plan yet fully funded by the Iraqi state, exacerbated the strangulation of the country and deepened the hardship of ordinary Iraqis.

Almost 30 percent of each dollar was diverted to the dubious UN Compensation Commission residing in Villa “La Pelouse” in Geneva, which was to deliver financial compensation to aggrieved individuals and states. By mid-2004, the commission had conferred $48.2 billion to claimants – while the Iraqi people were starving. Further shares of Iraqi money got invested into the pockets of international UN staff. In the meantime, Iraqi wages (at an average of $5 and $25 a month) hardly sufficed to afford families’ basic necessities7.

As UN Humanitarian Coordinator in Iraq, Hans von Sponeck was a daily witness to what he calls “a harsh and uncompromising sanctions regime punishing the wrong people”. In his book8, he outlines some of the most salient consequences on the daily lives of innocent Iraqis.

When Saddam starves his own people, so he can blame the sanctions,
that's Saddam starving his own people, not the sanctions.

When the UN said he could sell oil for food, and he refused, that's
Saddam starving his own people. When he spent money to build palaces,
instead of buying food, that's Saddam starving his own people.

The sanctions disproportionately impacted civilians.

You don't say!

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The Berlin wall had nothing to do with communism.

Why was it built?

 

[HikerGuy83]

It's just a matter of time.

Can we put your prediction in with the other 100,000,000 predictions about different things ?

Why don't you tell us how much time.

Or are you afraid to be exposed as a charlatan ?

 

[HikerGuy83]

Why was it built?

Because somebody else wanted to build it (somebody else builds everything...per Obama).

 

[Red Front]

When Saddam starves his own people, so he can blame the sanctions,
that's Saddam starving his own people, not the sanctions.

When the UN said he could sell oil for food, and he refused, that's
Saddam starving his own people. When he spent money to build palaces,
instead of buying food, that's Saddam starving his own people.

The sanctions disproportionately impacted civilians.

You don't say!

You ignored almost every point I made.

The sanctions imposed on Iraq had repercussions far beyond mere food shortages.

 

[Red Front]

Can we put your prediction in with the other 100,000,000 predictions about different things ?

Why don't you tell us how much time.

Or are you afraid to be exposed as a charlatan ?

You actually believe production isn't going to become more automated? The capitalists know what's coming:

Advanced Automation = Communism

 

[HikerGuy83]

You actually believe production isn't going to become more automated? The capitalists know what's coming:

Advanced Automation = Communism

View attachment 818655​

Well, isn't that funny......

I've been hearing about this for decases.

Not happened yet.

Right now, you can't find the techs to work on the robodys.

 

[Red Front]

It's hard to believe that you ever worked in a factory (CNC operator - Really?), if you believe that technology will ever replace labor completely. You seem to have a child's eye view of what factory work is like.

Anybody that's worked in a factory knows that every day brings new challenges and new decisions. People can't be replaced with dumb machines - which is what technology is and always will be.

Technology will create jobs for engineers, technicians, coders and operators. It will make line workers jobs easier and more precise but not eliminate them.

I fully agree that a very large number of 'Capitalists' are free loaders (especially the inherited). Most are not really 'Capitalists', they are 'opportunists'. The two have become confused.

Capitalism in the narrowest sense, is investing money to gain money. There must be a profit incentive for it to work - and it's vital to any economy. 'Opportunism' is an economic free for all that allows thievery on a massive level. Anything goes in the name of grabbing money.

While too much money is being directed to the owners at this time, there will always be a valid need for financial management. Financial management is a vital service - one that is too far overpaid in our society.

People will adopt to the new technologies. They will gain the appropriate job skills.

You need to learn how to think and most importantly, comprehend what you read. I never suggested that technology will completely replace human labor, doing absolutely EVERYTHING for us. That's a straw man argument. It will however, do enough to where wage-labor and consequently to that, capitalism, will be eliminated. Your assumption that those tens of millions of jobs that will be lost, will be replaced, 1 for 1, with IT jobs, is nonsense. The new IT jobs that will be created, will pale in comparison to the amount of jobs that will be lost. More, not everyone can become a robot repair technician or programmer. In the not too distant future, even repair tech specialists and coders will be replaced with intelligent robots.

Advanced automation makes communism inevitable. When enough wage-labor is replaced by intelligent autonomous machines, that's the end of capitalism and the beginning of the socialist/communist age. High-tech automation eliminates wage-labor/capitalism. No wage-labor = no paying consumers = no markets = no capitalism.

 

[Red Front]

Well, isn't that funny......

I've been hearing about this for decases.

Not happened yet.

Right now, you can't find the techs to work on the robodys.

Unfortunately you're unable to think rationally, hence you find it funny. The level of computational power that we have today is billions of times more than what existed in the 1960s, when you were a young man. That smart phone in your hand has more computational power than all of NASA in 1969. Artificial intelligence is uniquely capable, today, to handle most tasks performed by humans. This wasn't the case 50 years ago. If you want to stick your head in the sand like an ostrich and fool yourself into thinking advanced 21st century automation is just like what we had back in the 60s and 70s, hey, believe whatever nonsense toots your horn.

Coming to a theater near you:

Oh Shit, it's not science fiction anymore, it's real:











AutoMine® Concept - the next generation of mining automation - Behind the scenes

The Future of Mine Automation - ABB Mining Solutions

Automated Cargo Ships: The Next Transport Revolution?

This Robot-Built House Could Change Everything

Oh Shit, the whole supply chain is automated!

​

 

[HikerGuy83]

Unfortunately you're unable to think rationally, hence you find it funny. The level of computational power that we have today is billions of times more than what existed in the 1960s, when you were a young man. That smart phone in your hand has more computational power than all of NASA in 1969. Artificial intelligence is uniquely capable, today, to handle most tasks performed by humans. This wasn't the case 50 years ago. If you want to stick your head in the sand like an ostrich and fool yourself into thinking advanced 21st century automation is just like what we had back in the 60s and 70s, hey, believe whatever nonsense toots your horn.

Coming to a theater near you:

View attachment 818665

View attachment 818667

Oh Shit, it's not science fiction anymore, it's real:











AutoMine® Concept - the next generation of mining automation - Behind the scenes

The Future of Mine Automation - ABB Mining Solutions

Automated Cargo Ships: The Next Transport Revolution?

This Robot-Built House Could Change Everything

Oh Shit, the whole supply chain is automated!


​

Supply.....key work in supply chain.

Supply has to marry up with demand.

If nobody is working, there is no demand.

No demand, then supply is meaningless.

I understand automation. I work in it to a degree.

I also understand economics.

 

[Red Front]

Supply.....key work in supply chain.

Supply has to marry up with demand.

If nobody is working, there is no demand.

No demand, then supply is meaningless.

I understand automation. I work in it to a degree.

I also understand economics.

An intelligent, autonomous machine working 24/7 won't meet the consumer's demand, because you decided that it can't? You don't understand advanced automation, economics or communism. Every aspect of production will eventually be automated, only requiring human supervision. The drudgery of work, will become much less. Due to the loss of jobs, society in the not-too-distant future will be forced by necessity to adopt a democratically-run, communist mode of production.

In the beginning people will still have to work, but it won't be for a wage. There will be enough automation and computers performing the accounting, that people will only work 20 hours weekly, and will have more than what they have now. Their standard of living will be much higher, that what it is today, thanks to advanced technology.

 

[HikerGuy83]

Due to the loss of jobs, society in the not-too-distant future will be forced by necessity to adopt a democratically-run, communist mode of production.

Uh...there are several responses to the situation you described. Not just yours. And it won't be a necessity....it will be a choice.

Again with the useless predictions.

 

[HikerGuy83]

Their standard of living will be much higher, that what it is today, thanks to advanced technology.

That SHOULD be the case. But productivity increases have not benefited a great many people.

 

[Red Front]

Uh...there are several responses to the situation you described. Not just yours. And it won't be a necessity....it will be a choice.

Again with the useless predictions.

How is it a choice? Millions of unemployed Americans, going hungry, or living on a government check, because the capitalists want to maintain their privileged social status and wealth, at the expense of everyone else? A so-called "UBI" i.e. Universal Basic Income, is a cop-out scam, to create artificial paying consumers and keep capitalism on life-support. It will make everyone poor and since they will be receiving a monthly income from the government, the right-wing Republicans will argue that America no longer needs Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid or any of the other government-run entitlement programs.

Under capitalism, people have value to the extent that they are useful to a capitalist. When capitalists replace their human labor with intelligent robots, people become worthless consumers. The wealthy elites will consign most people to the compost heap. They will eliminate the recipients of the UBI, with drugs, crime, incarceration, wars, pandemics..etc. Ironically, the rich of today, who possess all of the capital, owning the means of production (facilities, machinery, vehicles..etc), will become the communists of the future. Their gated communities will be self-sufficient, producing all of the goods and services that they consume and use. Without employees or markets, they will simply produce everything in their well secured, gated communities:

TECHNO-FEUDALISM FOR THE WORKING CLASS AND COMMUNISM FOR THE CAPITALISTS.

​

Working class people like myself, aren't going to allow that to happen. We all live in Elysium, or no one lives in Elysium.

 

[Red Front]

That SHOULD be the case. But productivity increases have not benefited a great many people.

Productivity increases at the expense of workers. The capitalists consume most of the output, taking what workers produce. You are perpetuating a system of exploitation, which drives workers into the ground. Technology will address all of that, by making production much less labor intensive. You are ironically appealing to one of the contradictions of capitalism. People work harder and still don't have what they need. The disparity of the haves vs the have-nots, becomes even more pronounced with an increase in production output, because the surplus value is going to the owners of the means of production (i.e. the capitalists).

 

[HikerGuy83]

How is it a choice?

Easy.

Millions of unemployed Americans, going hungry, or living on a government check, because the capitalists want to maintain their privileged social status and wealth, at the expense of everyone else?

Oh, so it comes out. Class jealousy. Got it.

What you described won't be just millions. It will be tens of millions. And they will have a say in things if it really gets to the point.

But many of them won't see value in a "government" solution.

A so-called "UBI" i.e. Universal Basic Income, is a cop-out scam, to create artificial paying consumers and keep capitalism on life-support.

Now that's funny. UBI is a left wing construct.

It will make everyone poor and since they will be receiving a monthly income from the government, the right-wing Republicans will argue that America no longer needs Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid or any of the other government-run entitlement programs.

Did you really call them entitlement programs ? Wow. How honest of you.

BTW: Don't know if you noticed but this is another one of your useless unverifiable predictions.

Under capitalism, people have value to the extent that they are useful to a capitalist. When capitalists replace their human labor with intelligent robots, people become worthless consumers.

They won't be consumers. Not sure if that is what you mean by worthless.

They will eliminate the recipients of the UBI, with drugs, crime, incarceration, wars, pandemics..etc. Ironically, the rich of today, who possess all of the capital, owning the means of production (facilities, machinery, vehicles..etc), will become the communists of the future.

More predictions. Just the facts ma'am.

Their gated communities will be self-sufficient, producing all of the goods and services that they consume and use. Without employees or markets, they will simply produce everything in their well secured, gated communities:

So, let them. Why is that is a problem for them. They only need so much. If you are suggesting they are going to oppress the masses at the same time, you'd be wrong.