Dissecting John Stossel's Anti-Communist Lies

CommunistFront said:
Do you actually believe an "iron curtain" (a term invented by the West) kept everyone inside the USSR? You're really naive. The capitalists started two world wars, massacred six million Jews, and colonized whole continents resulting in the death of tens of millions of people, so keep deluding yourself thinking capitalism is less violent. Some of the most brutal authoritarian regimes are run by capitalists, like Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan.
Click to expand...

Do you actually believe an "iron curtain" (a term invented by the West) kept everyone inside the USSR?

Were Eastern Europeans free to travel?
 
Toddsterpatriot said:
Do you actually believe an "iron curtain" (a term invented by the West) kept everyone inside the USSR?

Were Eastern Europeans free to travel?
Click to expand...
Nobody moved there idiot. They genocided tens of millions.
 
Toddsterpatriot said:
Especially since they're such failures.
How's that Venezuelan communism working out for the people?
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Quite well even while being sanctioned. In 2014 the US and Saudi Arabia artificially, brought down the price of oil to hurt Russia, and inadvertently they also hurt Venezuela. The mistake of Venezuela was to base its whole economy on the price of oil. Now with BRICS and the new canal that is being planned in Nicaragua connecting the Pacific with the Atlantic, Marxist economies are going to be able to bypass all of the American-controlled banks and maritime hurdles for trade, commerce, and banking. Russia and China are establishing a new financial world order that is going to render American hegemony null and void.
 
AMart said:
Nobody moved there idiot. They genocided tens of millions.
Click to expand...
When you start insulting your opponent or threatening them with violence you're pretty much conceding your defeat and the strength of your opponent's position. Get a grip.
 
Toddsterpatriot said:
Do you actually believe an "iron curtain" (a term invented by the West) kept everyone inside the USSR?

Were Eastern Europeans free to travel?
Click to expand...
You're not engaging in this conversation with any civility or goodwill, so the only reason I invest any time at all responding to you is for the sake of others that might get misled by your poorly reasoned, disingenuous arguments.

There was no "iron curtain" in Soviet Russia, until after the devastation of WW2 when Soviet Russia incorporated East Germany and Berlin, which was within East Germany and yet full of NATO troops. The USSR had to rebuild after losing practically all of the immense amount of infrastructure that it built in Western Russia, between 1920 and 1940. Soviet Russia was invaded by 4 million Nazi Germans and 9 million red army soldiers died fighting them. About 18 million Soviet citizens perished, which amounted to a loss of 15% of the nation's population.

Imagine today if the United States were to get invaded by a foreign power and lose 15% of its population and most of its national infrastructure. The US would lose 49,500,000 people (49.5 Million). The US is surrounded by two vast oceans and was pretty much secure from being invaded in the same way the USSR was. It lost about half a million people in WW2. Yes losing half a million people was devastating for the US, as it would be for any country, but nonetheless, the Soviets lost thirty times that amount.

The Soviet Union had to rebuild itself and it was now facing a war with the West, because the American big-money capitalist ruling class began its "red scare" campaign against socialists and communists in the United States to demonize everything related to the Soviet Union, and hopefully repeal or at least blunt the "new deal" of the 1930s. The USSR assisted American leftists during the labor union struggles of the 1920s and 30s, and was seen by the American aristocracy as a threat to their power and wealth. The biggest fear of the American wealthy class was for the American working-class to adopt socialism and strip them of their power.

The Soviet Union had gained an immense amount of territory after WW2, splitting the spoils of war with the West after the defeat of nazi Germany. Germany was split between West and East and Berlin was right smack in the center of Eastern Germany. It was full of NATO troops from the US and Western Europe, so of course, a wall was built around it.

Furthermore, millions of Soviet citizens now had to rebuild their country and unfortunately, a significant % of them were shell-shocked and didn't want to continue with the communist experiment. It wasn't easy to establish a new order and civilization, after fighting a war and losing almost thirty million people, and most of your nation's infrastructure. The USSR was a new nation. You completely ignore that.

About 20% of the Soviet intelligentsia, academics, scientists, and engineers, sought to settle in Western Europe and the United States. So until the death of Stalin in 1953, there were some serious restrictions on travel for Soviet citizens. Yes indeed, that was the situation. Does that imply that communism doesn't work? No, whoever jumps to that conclusion is suffering from poor reasoning. NATO was created in 1947, right after the war and there wasn't a Soviet Warsaw Pact military alliance until the mid-1950s. The cold war started shortly after WW2 and for several years the USSR didn't have nukes. So of course, under those difficult circumstances, a developing nation might very well become a bit "paranoid" and more authoritarian, in an effort to survive and rebuild. Yep?

The Soviets rebuilt their country and by the late 1950s, it was a world superpower, rivaling the US which had over a century of industrial development ahead of Soviet Russia, and didn't suffer the same catastrophic devastation that the Soviets had during WW2. Communism turned Russia into a superpower in less than 15 years after the destruction of much of its national infrastructure during the war. The United States spent billions rebuilding Western Europe and Japan, whereas the USSR had to fend for itself. There was no help for the communists after WW2, they had to pick themselves up by their bootstraps and rebuild.

Keep believing whatever you want, but communism is in your future or in that of your progeny, so you should become a communist now. In the end, communism will become a necessity and self-evidently the only solution to advanced technology replacing wage labor. Deal with it. Seethe their and boil in your bitterness.


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CommunistFront said:
Quite well even while being sanctioned. In 2014 the US and Saudi Arabia artificially, brought down the price of oil to hurt Russia, and inadvertently they also hurt Venezuela. The mistake of Venezuela was to base its whole economy on the price of oil. Now with BRICS and the new canal that is being planned in Nicaragua connecting the Pacific with the Atlantic, Marxist economies are going to be able to bypass all of the American-controlled banks and maritime hurdles for trade, commerce, and banking. Russia and China are establishing a new financial world order that is going to render American hegemony null and void.
Click to expand...

Quite well even while being sanctioned.

Was that why the people were eating zoo animals?
Why over 1 million fled to Colombia?

The mistake of Venezuela was to base its whole economy on the price of oil.

Not only that, the stupid commies kicked out the foreign oil companies and spent the
money they needed for maintenence on Hugo's daughter.

Only commies could fuck up the largest oil reserves in the world to the point where
they can't even produce 1 million barrels a day. What a bunch of fucktards.
 
CommunistFront said:
You're not engaging in this conversation with any civility or goodwill, so the only reason I invest any time at all responding to you is for the sake of others that might get misled by your poorly reasoned, disingenuous arguments.

There was no "iron curtain" in Soviet Russia, until after the devastation of WW2 when Soviet Russia incorporated East Germany and Berlin, which was within East Germany and yet full of NATO troops. The USSR had to rebuild after losing practically all of the immense amount of infrastructure that it built in Western Russia, between 1920 and 1940. Soviet Russia was invaded by 4 million Nazi Germans and 9 million red army soldiers died fighting them. About 18 million Soviet citizens perished, which amounted to a loss of 15% of the nation's population.

Imagine today if the United States were to get invaded by a foreign power and lose 15% of its population and most of its national infrastructure. The US would lose 49,500,000 people (49.5 Million). The US is surrounded by two vast oceans and was pretty much secure from being invaded in the same way the USSR was. It lost about half a million people in WW2. Yes losing half a million people was devastating for the US, as it would be for any country, but nonetheless, the Soviets lost thirty times that amount.

The Soviet Union had to rebuild itself and it was now facing a war with the West, because the American big-money capitalist ruling class began its "red scare" campaign against socialists and communists in the United States to demonize everything related to the Soviet Union, and hopefully repeal or at least blunt the "new deal" of the 1930s. The USSR assisted American leftists during the labor union struggles of the 1920s and 30s, and was seen by the American aristocracy as a threat to their power and wealth. The biggest fear of the American wealthy class was for the American working-class to adopt socialism and strip them of their power.

The Soviet Union had gained an immense amount of territory after WW2, splitting the spoils of war with the West after the defeat of nazi Germany. Germany was split between West and East and Berlin was right smack in the center of Eastern Germany. It was full of NATO troops from the US and Western Europe, so of course, a wall was built around it.

Furthermore, millions of Soviet citizens now had to rebuild their country and unfortunately, a significant % of them were shell-shocked and didn't want to continue with the communist experiment. It wasn't easy to establish a new order and civilization, after fighting a war and losing almost thirty million people, and most of your nation's infrastructure. The USSR was a new nation. You completely ignore that.

About 20% of the Soviet intelligentsia, academics, scientists, and engineers, sought to settle in Western Europe and the United States. So until the death of Stalin in 1953, there were some serious restrictions on travel for Soviet citizens. Yes indeed, that was the situation. Does that imply that communism doesn't work? No, whoever jumps to that conclusion is suffering from poor reasoning. NATO was created in 1947, right after the war and there wasn't a Soviet Warsaw Pact military alliance until the mid-1950s. The cold war started shortly after WW2 and for several years the USSR didn't have nukes. So of course, under those difficult circumstances, a developing nation might very well become a bit "paranoid" and more authoritarian, in an effort to survive and rebuild. Yep?

The Soviets rebuilt their country and by the late 1950s, it was a world superpower, rivaling the US which had over a century of industrial development ahead of Soviet Russia, and didn't suffer the same catastrophic devastation that the Soviets had during WW2. Communism turned Russia into a superpower in less than 15 years after the destruction of much of its national infrastructure during the war. The United States spent billions rebuilding Western Europe and Japan, whereas the USSR had to fend for itself. There was no help for the communists after WW2, they had to pick themselves up by their bootstraps and rebuild.

Keep believing whatever you want, but communism is in your future or in that of your progeny, so you should become a communist now. In the end, communism will become a necessity and self-evidently the only solution to advanced technology replacing wage labor. Deal with it. Seethe their and boil in your bitterness.

Click to expand...
Funny you say that when it was Capitalism that brought the world to this point.
 
CommunistFront said:
You're not engaging in this conversation with any civility or goodwill, so the only reason I invest any time at all responding to you is for the sake of others that might get misled by your poorly reasoned, disingenuous arguments.

There was no "iron curtain" in Soviet Russia, until after the devastation of WW2 when Soviet Russia incorporated East Germany and Berlin, which was within East Germany and yet full of NATO troops. The USSR had to rebuild after losing practically all of the immense amount of infrastructure that it built in Western Russia, between 1920 and 1940. Soviet Russia was invaded by 4 million Nazi Germans and 9 million red army soldiers died fighting them. About 18 million Soviet citizens perished, which amounted to a loss of 15% of the nation's population.

Imagine today if the United States were to get invaded by a foreign power and lose 15% of its population and most of its national infrastructure. The US would lose 49,500,000 people (49.5 Million). The US is surrounded by two vast oceans and was pretty much secure from being invaded in the same way the USSR was. It lost about half a million people in WW2. Yes losing half a million people was devastating for the US, as it would be for any country, but nonetheless, the Soviets lost thirty times that amount.

The Soviet Union had to rebuild itself and it was now facing a war with the West, because the American big-money capitalist ruling class began its "red scare" campaign against socialists and communists in the United States to demonize everything related to the Soviet Union, and hopefully repeal or at least blunt the "new deal" of the 1930s. The USSR assisted American leftists during the labor union struggles of the 1920s and 30s, and was seen by the American aristocracy as a threat to their power and wealth. The biggest fear of the American wealthy class was for the American working-class to adopt socialism and strip them of their power.

The Soviet Union had gained an immense amount of territory after WW2, splitting the spoils of war with the West after the defeat of nazi Germany. Germany was split between West and East and Berlin was right smack in the center of Eastern Germany. It was full of NATO troops from the US and Western Europe, so of course, a wall was built around it.

Furthermore, millions of Soviet citizens now had to rebuild their country and unfortunately, a significant % of them were shell-shocked and didn't want to continue with the communist experiment. It wasn't easy to establish a new order and civilization, after fighting a war and losing almost thirty million people, and most of your nation's infrastructure. The USSR was a new nation. You completely ignore that.

About 20% of the Soviet intelligentsia, academics, scientists, and engineers, sought to settle in Western Europe and the United States. So until the death of Stalin in 1953, there were some serious restrictions on travel for Soviet citizens. Yes indeed, that was the situation. Does that imply that communism doesn't work? No, whoever jumps to that conclusion is suffering from poor reasoning. NATO was created in 1947, right after the war and there wasn't a Soviet Warsaw Pact military alliance until the mid-1950s. The cold war started shortly after WW2 and for several years the USSR didn't have nukes. So of course, under those difficult circumstances, a developing nation might very well become a bit "paranoid" and more authoritarian, in an effort to survive and rebuild. Yep?

The Soviets rebuilt their country and by the late 1950s, it was a world superpower, rivaling the US which had over a century of industrial development ahead of Soviet Russia, and didn't suffer the same catastrophic devastation that the Soviets had during WW2. Communism turned Russia into a superpower in less than 15 years after the destruction of much of its national infrastructure during the war. The United States spent billions rebuilding Western Europe and Japan, whereas the USSR had to fend for itself. There was no help for the communists after WW2, they had to pick themselves up by their bootstraps and rebuild.

Keep believing whatever you want, but communism is in your future or in that of your progeny, so you should become a communist now. In the end, communism will become a necessity and self-evidently the only solution to advanced technology replacing wage labor. Deal with it. Seethe their and boil in your bitterness.
​
Click to expand...
The Soviet Union had gained an immense amount of territory after WW2, splitting the spoils of war with the West after the defeat of nazi Germany.

And they enslaved Eastern Europe too.

It was full of NATO troops from the US and Western Europe, so of course, a wall was built around it.

16 years after the war ended.

Furthermore, millions of Soviet citizens now had to rebuild their country and unfortunately, a significant % of them were shell-shocked and didn't want to continue with the communist experiment.

Of course, even after beating Germany, they still had to crush their own people under their boot.
And all because the people realized communism sucked. I guess they needed that iron curtain
to keep their people from escaping to freedom.

So until the death of Stalin in 1953, there were some serious restrictions on travel for Soviet citizens. Yes indeed, that was the situation. Does that imply that communism doesn't work?

It's some solid evidence, yes.

The United States spent billions rebuilding Western Europe and Japan, whereas the USSR had to fend for itself. There was no help for the communists after WW2, they had to pick themselves up by their bootstraps and rebuild

No more handouts for the commie slave masters.
 
CommunistFront said:
You're not engaging in this conversation with any civility or goodwill, so the only reason I invest any time at all responding to you is for the sake of others that might get misled by your poorly reasoned, disingenuous arguments.

There was no "iron curtain" in Soviet Russia, until after the devastation of WW2 when Soviet Russia incorporated East Germany and Berlin, which was within East Germany and yet full of NATO troops. The USSR had to rebuild after losing practically all of the immense amount of infrastructure that it built in Western Russia, between 1920 and 1940. Soviet Russia was invaded by 4 million Nazi Germans and 9 million red army soldiers died fighting them. About 18 million Soviet citizens perished, which amounted to a loss of 15% of the nation's population.

Imagine today if the United States were to get invaded by a foreign power and lose 15% of its population and most of its national infrastructure. The US would lose 49,500,000 people (49.5 Million). The US is surrounded by two vast oceans and was pretty much secure from being invaded in the same way the USSR was. It lost about half a million people in WW2. Yes losing half a million people was devastating for the US, as it would be for any country, but nonetheless, the Soviets lost thirty times that amount.

The Soviet Union had to rebuild itself and it was now facing a war with the West, because the American big-money capitalist ruling class began its "red scare" campaign against socialists and communists in the United States to demonize everything related to the Soviet Union, and hopefully repeal or at least blunt the "new deal" of the 1930s. The USSR assisted American leftists during the labor union struggles of the 1920s and 30s, and was seen by the American aristocracy as a threat to their power and wealth. The biggest fear of the American wealthy class was for the American working-class to adopt socialism and strip them of their power.

The Soviet Union had gained an immense amount of territory after WW2, splitting the spoils of war with the West after the defeat of nazi Germany. Germany was split between West and East and Berlin was right smack in the center of Eastern Germany. It was full of NATO troops from the US and Western Europe, so of course, a wall was built around it.

Furthermore, millions of Soviet citizens now had to rebuild their country and unfortunately, a significant % of them were shell-shocked and didn't want to continue with the communist experiment. It wasn't easy to establish a new order and civilization, after fighting a war and losing almost thirty million people, and most of your nation's infrastructure. The USSR was a new nation. You completely ignore that.

About 20% of the Soviet intelligentsia, academics, scientists, and engineers, sought to settle in Western Europe and the United States. So until the death of Stalin in 1953, there were some serious restrictions on travel for Soviet citizens. Yes indeed, that was the situation. Does that imply that communism doesn't work? No, whoever jumps to that conclusion is suffering from poor reasoning. NATO was created in 1947, right after the war and there wasn't a Soviet Warsaw Pact military alliance until the mid-1950s. The cold war started shortly after WW2 and for several years the USSR didn't have nukes. So of course, under those difficult circumstances, a developing nation might very well become a bit "paranoid" and more authoritarian, in an effort to survive and rebuild. Yep?

The Soviets rebuilt their country and by the late 1950s, it was a world superpower, rivaling the US which had over a century of industrial development ahead of Soviet Russia, and didn't suffer the same catastrophic devastation that the Soviets had during WW2. Communism turned Russia into a superpower in less than 15 years after the destruction of much of its national infrastructure during the war. The United States spent billions rebuilding Western Europe and Japan, whereas the USSR had to fend for itself. There was no help for the communists after WW2, they had to pick themselves up by their bootstraps and rebuild.

Keep believing whatever you want, but communism is in your future or in that of your progeny, so you should become a communist now. In the end, communism will become a necessity and self-evidently the only solution to advanced technology replacing wage labor. Deal with it. Seethe their and boil in your bitterness.

Click to expand...
Todd is closer to a communist than he thinks. He practices the cultural Marxist art of critical theory.
 
Toddsterpatriot said:
Quite well even while being sanctioned.

Was that why the people were eating zoo animals?
Why over 1 million fled to Colombia?

The mistake of Venezuela was to base its whole economy on the price of oil.

Not only that, the stupid commies kicked out the foreign oil companies and spent the
money they needed for maintenence on Hugo's daughter.

Only commies could fuck up the largest oil reserves in the world to the point where
they can't even produce 1 million barrels a day. What a bunch of fucktards.
Click to expand...

Petrostates are thought to be vulnerable to what economists call Dutch disease, a term coined during the 1970s after the Netherlands discovered natural gas in the North Sea.

In an afflicted country, a resource boom attracts large inflows of foreign capital, which leads to an appreciation of the local currency and a boost for imports that are now comparatively cheaper. This sucks labor and capital away from other sectors of the economy, such as agriculture and manufacturing, which economists say are more important for growth and competitiveness. As these labor-intensive export industries flag, unemployment could rise, and the country could develop an unhealthy dependence on the export of natural resources. In extreme cases, a petrostate forgoes local oil production and instead derives most of its oil wealth through high taxes on foreign drillers. Petrostate economies are then left highly vulnerable to unpredictable swings in global energy prices and capital flight.

That's what happened to Venezuela, just as it has occurred to capitalist petrostates as well. Oil prices plunged from more than $100 per barrel in 2014 to under $30 per barrel in early 2016, sucking Venezuela into an economic and political spiral. Conditions have only worsened since then. Add the US empire's economic embargo and it makes the crisis even worse. But eventually, Venezuela is going to recover, despite the sanctions.

Following your line of reasoning capitalism is a huge failure because most capitalist-run countries are plagued with gross inequality and poverty (and they're not even being sanctioned by the most powerful empire in human history as Venezuela, Cuba, Nicaragua and several other communist countries are). Most of the failed states in the world are ruled by capitalist plutocrats and oligarchs. It took centuries for capitalism to replace feudalism and chattel slavery and likewise, socialism and communism won't replace capitalism until material conditions permit.

The European mercantile class didn't transform itself into the powerful industrialists of the 19th century, acquiring more power than the monarchs and feudal lords until technology (material conditions) allowed it to happen. Your reasoning is flawed, due to your anger and fear. Readjust your line of argumentation and be more consistent and fair in your critique.
 
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CommunistFront said:
It's not how you start the race, it's how you finish it that matters. It took centuries for capitalism to replace chattel slavery and feudalism, and it will take time for socialism and then communism to replace capitalism. It's just a matter of time.
Click to expand...
Communism is a fail experiment that the Soviets, China and many other nations have abandoned over time.

Communism fails because of Greed, Envy and Sloth and nothing will ever change human nature.
 
ding said:
Todd is closer to a communist than he thinks. He practices the cultural Marxist art of critical theory.
Click to expand...
Ask him to provide you with a capitalist solution to the replacement of wage labor with advanced 21st-century automation. Good luck getting a coherent answer.
 
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