Bull Ring ding: Does work in physics require motion

[ding]

Ed, do you care to respond to this from BU physics department?

Entropy and the second law

The second law of thermodynamics is one of the most fundamental laws of nature, having profound implications. In essence, it says this:

The second law - The level of disorder in the universe is steadily increasing. Systems tend to move from ordered behavior to more random behavior.

One implication of the second law is that heat flows spontaneously from a hotter region to a cooler region, but will not flow spontaneously the other way. This applies to anything that flows: it will naturally flow downhill rather than uphill.

If you watched a film forwards and backwards, you would almost certainly be able to tell which way was which because of the way things happen. A pendulum will gradually lose energy and come to a stop, but it doesn't pick up energy spontaneously; an ice cube melts to form a puddle, but a puddle never spontaneously transforms itself into an ice cube; a glass falling off a table might shatter when it hits the ground, but the pieces will never spontaneously jump back together to form the glass again. Many processes are irreversible, and any irreversible process increases the level of disorder. One of the most important implications of the second law is that it indicates which way time goes - time naturally flows in a way that increases disorder.

The second law also predicts the end of the universe: it implies that the universe will end in a "heat death" in which everything is at the same temperature. This is the ultimate level of disorder; if everything is at the same temperature, no work can be done, and all the energy will end up as the random motion of atoms and molecules.

 

[edthecynic]

Are you assuming that energy is being added to the universe? Or is it that you are assuming the universe is an open system? I don't know anyone who assumes that.

There is no proof the universe is either a closed or isolated system, they are just ASSUMPTIONS. In the visible universe we can measure matter at the outer edges of the universe ACCELERATING away from us. Some FORCE is doing the WORK if the acceleration. Therefore MEASUREMENTS do NOT support the assumption of a closed or isolated universe.

 

[edthecynic]

Ed, do you care to respond to this from BU physics department?

Entropy and the second law

The second law of thermodynamics is one of the most fundamental laws of nature, having profound implications. In essence, it says this:

The second law - The level of disorder in the universe is steadily increasing. Systems tend to move from ordered behavior to more random behavior.

One implication of the second law is that heat flows spontaneously from a hotter region to a cooler region, but will not flow spontaneously the other way. This applies to anything that flows: it will naturally flow downhill rather than uphill.

If you watched a film forwards and backwards, you would almost certainly be able to tell which way was which because of the way things happen. A pendulum will gradually lose energy and come to a stop, but it doesn't pick up energy spontaneously; an ice cube melts to form a puddle, but a puddle never spontaneously transforms itself into an ice cube; a glass falling off a table might shatter when it hits the ground, but the pieces will never spontaneously jump back together to form the glass again. Many processes are irreversible, and any irreversible process increases the level of disorder. One of the most important implications of the second law is that it indicates which way time goes - time naturally flows in a way that increases disorder.

The second law also predicts the end of the universe: it implies that the universe will end in a "heat death" in which everything is at the same temperature. This is the ultimate level of disorder; if everything is at the same temperature, no work can be done, and all the energy will end up as the random motion of atoms and molecules.

The TLoT says there is no temperature at which all motion stops, therefore there will always be kinetic energy (the energy of motion) to do work.

BU is not ranked in the top 25 schools for ANY sciences.

 

[ding]

Are you assuming that energy is being added to the universe? Or is it that you are assuming the universe is an open system? I don't know anyone who assumes that.

There is no proof the universe is either a closed or isolated system, they are just ASSUMPTIONS. In the visible universe we can measure matter at the outer edges of the universe ACCELERATING away from us. Some FORCE is doing the WORK if the acceleration. Therefore MEASUREMENTS do NOT support the assumption of a closed or isolated universe.

Sure there is proof the universe began as a closed system. Friedman's solutions to Einstein's field equations, red shift and cosmic background radiation all tell us that approximately 14 billion years ago all matter and energy occupied the space of 1 billionth of 1 trillionth the size of a single atom. The curvature of space time tells us the universe is a closed system. So if all matter started from such a tiny space and then expanded and then bounced back or crunched back that too would support a closed system. And as such could not have been an infinite process. So therefore, the fate of the universe is thermal equilibrium. What exactly do you believe the fate of the universe is?

 

[ding]

Ed, do you care to respond to this from BU physics department?

Entropy and the second law

The second law of thermodynamics is one of the most fundamental laws of nature, having profound implications. In essence, it says this:

The second law - The level of disorder in the universe is steadily increasing. Systems tend to move from ordered behavior to more random behavior.

One implication of the second law is that heat flows spontaneously from a hotter region to a cooler region, but will not flow spontaneously the other way. This applies to anything that flows: it will naturally flow downhill rather than uphill.

If you watched a film forwards and backwards, you would almost certainly be able to tell which way was which because of the way things happen. A pendulum will gradually lose energy and come to a stop, but it doesn't pick up energy spontaneously; an ice cube melts to form a puddle, but a puddle never spontaneously transforms itself into an ice cube; a glass falling off a table might shatter when it hits the ground, but the pieces will never spontaneously jump back together to form the glass again. Many processes are irreversible, and any irreversible process increases the level of disorder. One of the most important implications of the second law is that it indicates which way time goes - time naturally flows in a way that increases disorder.

The second law also predicts the end of the universe: it implies that the universe will end in a "heat death" in which everything is at the same temperature. This is the ultimate level of disorder; if everything is at the same temperature, no work can be done, and all the energy will end up as the random motion of atoms and molecules.

The TLoT says there is no temperature at which all motion stops, therefore there will always be kinetic energy (the energy of motion) to do work.

BU is not ranked in the top 25 schools for ANY sciences.

We've been through this before. You are talking about the random motion of atoms and molecules. According to BU physics department, "if everything is at the same temperature, no work can be done, and all the energy will end up as the random motion of atoms and molecules." This we do not see. Therefore space and time had a beginning.

 

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Warp speed: How the outer edges of the universe travel faster than the speed of light

"So what are the implications of an ever-accelerating universe? Nothing short of a cosmic heat death. Over billions of years, galaxies are thought to expand so far out from each other that the gases that congregate to form stars won’t be able to get together. They’ll be spread too thin."

 

[ding]

What Does The Expansion Of The Universe Tell Us About The Future?

"...Over a long enough period of time, this increasing speed of expansion means that the density of objects within the Universe will decrease. If every galaxy is increasingly distant from every other galaxy, images of galaxies outside our own Milky Way will also become increasingly out of date, as the light travel time also increases. If we pursue the increasing isolation of galaxies to its logical extreme, we arrive at an end-of-Universe scenario called “heat death”. Heat death arrives when a galaxy runs out of gas to form new stars, and the stars which remain are overwhelmingly either very faint red, brown, and black dwarf stars, black holes, or neutron stars. With no new gas able to arrive into the galaxy, the galaxy must end its star formation. Once the remaining red dwarfs and other stellar objects radiate away the last of their heat, and the entire Universe has reached a single, even temperature, we have arrived at the death of heat in our Universe. This is currently our Universe’s forecast for its eventual end state - and a direct consequence of having such a large amount of Dark Energy, pressing our Universe outwards into an ever-faster expansion..."

 

[ding]

Future of an expanding universe - Wikipedia

Observations suggest that the expansion of the universe will continue forever. If so, then a popular theory is that the universe will cool as it expands, eventually becoming too cold to sustain life. For this reason, this future scenario once popularly called "heat death" is now known as the Big Freeze.[1]

If dark energy—represented by the cosmological constant, a constant energy density filling space homogeneously,[2] or scalar fields, such as quintessence or moduli, dynamic quantities whose energy density can vary in time and space—accelerates the expansion of the universe, then the space between clusters of galaxies will grow at an increasing rate. Redshift will stretch ancient, incoming photons (even gamma rays) to undetectably long wavelengths and low energies.[3]Stars are expected to form normally for 1012 to 1014 (1–100 trillion) years, but eventually the supply of gas needed for star formation will be exhausted. As existing stars run out of fuel and cease to shine, the universe will slowly and inexorably grow darker, one star at a time.[4][5] According to theories that predict proton decay, the stellar remnants left behind will disappear, leaving behind only black holes, which themselves eventually disappear as they emit Hawking radiation.[6]Ultimately, if the universe reaches a state in which the temperature approaches a uniform value, no further work will be possible, resulting in a final heat death of the universe.[7]

 

[edthecynic]

Are you assuming that energy is being added to the universe? Or is it that you are assuming the universe is an open system? I don't know anyone who assumes that.

There is no proof the universe is either a closed or isolated system, they are just ASSUMPTIONS. In the visible universe we can measure matter at the outer edges of the universe ACCELERATING away from us. Some FORCE is doing the WORK if the acceleration. Therefore MEASUREMENTS do NOT support the assumption of a closed or isolated universe.

Sure there is proof the universe began as a closed system. Friedman's solutions to Einstein's field equations, red shift and cosmic background radiation all tell us that approximately 14 billion years ago all matter and energy occupied the space of 1 billionth of 1 trillionth the size of a single atom. The curvature of space time tells us the universe is a closed system. So if all matter started from such a tiny space and then expanded and then bounced back or crunched back that too would support a closed system. And as such could not have been an infinite process. So therefore, the fate of the universe is thermal equilibrium. What exactly do you believe the fate of the universe is?

Perpetual Commotion.

 

[ding]

Are you assuming that energy is being added to the universe? Or is it that you are assuming the universe is an open system? I don't know anyone who assumes that.

There is no proof the universe is either a closed or isolated system, they are just ASSUMPTIONS. In the visible universe we can measure matter at the outer edges of the universe ACCELERATING away from us. Some FORCE is doing the WORK if the acceleration. Therefore MEASUREMENTS do NOT support the assumption of a closed or isolated universe.

Sure there is proof the universe began as a closed system. Friedman's solutions to Einstein's field equations, red shift and cosmic background radiation all tell us that approximately 14 billion years ago all matter and energy occupied the space of 1 billionth of 1 trillionth the size of a single atom. The curvature of space time tells us the universe is a closed system. So if all matter started from such a tiny space and then expanded and then bounced back or crunched back that too would support a closed system. And as such could not have been an infinite process. So therefore, the fate of the universe is thermal equilibrium. What exactly do you believe the fate of the universe is?

Perpetual Commotion.

Do you have a link for that?

 

[ding]

Are you assuming that energy is being added to the universe? Or is it that you are assuming the universe is an open system? I don't know anyone who assumes that.

There is no proof the universe is either a closed or isolated system, they are just ASSUMPTIONS. In the visible universe we can measure matter at the outer edges of the universe ACCELERATING away from us. Some FORCE is doing the WORK if the acceleration. Therefore MEASUREMENTS do NOT support the assumption of a closed or isolated universe.

Sure there is proof the universe began as a closed system. Friedman's solutions to Einstein's field equations, red shift and cosmic background radiation all tell us that approximately 14 billion years ago all matter and energy occupied the space of 1 billionth of 1 trillionth the size of a single atom. The curvature of space time tells us the universe is a closed system. So if all matter started from such a tiny space and then expanded and then bounced back or crunched back that too would support a closed system. And as such could not have been an infinite process. So therefore, the fate of the universe is thermal equilibrium. What exactly do you believe the fate of the universe is?

Perpetual Commotion.

Ready to concede?

 

[edthecynic]

Ultimately, if the universe reaches a state in which the temperature approaches a uniform value, no further work will be possible, resulting in a final heat death of the universe.

IF pigs had wings....

There will NEVER be a state of the universe where no work can be dune.

 

[edthecynic]

Are you assuming that energy is being added to the universe? Or is it that you are assuming the universe is an open system? I don't know anyone who assumes that.

There is no proof the universe is either a closed or isolated system, they are just ASSUMPTIONS. In the visible universe we can measure matter at the outer edges of the universe ACCELERATING away from us. Some FORCE is doing the WORK if the acceleration. Therefore MEASUREMENTS do NOT support the assumption of a closed or isolated universe.

Sure there is proof the universe began as a closed system. Friedman's solutions to Einstein's field equations, red shift and cosmic background radiation all tell us that approximately 14 billion years ago all matter and energy occupied the space of 1 billionth of 1 trillionth the size of a single atom. The curvature of space time tells us the universe is a closed system. So if all matter started from such a tiny space and then expanded and then bounced back or crunched back that too would support a closed system. And as such could not have been an infinite process. So therefore, the fate of the universe is thermal equilibrium. What exactly do you believe the fate of the universe is?

Perpetual Commotion.

Ready to concede?

I'm waiting for you to tell the truth first.

 

[edthecynic]

Are you assuming that energy is being added to the universe? Or is it that you are assuming the universe is an open system? I don't know anyone who assumes that.

There is no proof the universe is either a closed or isolated system, they are just ASSUMPTIONS. In the visible universe we can measure matter at the outer edges of the universe ACCELERATING away from us. Some FORCE is doing the WORK if the acceleration. Therefore MEASUREMENTS do NOT support the assumption of a closed or isolated universe.

Sure there is proof the universe began as a closed system. Friedman's solutions to Einstein's field equations, red shift and cosmic background radiation all tell us that approximately 14 billion years ago all matter and energy occupied the space of 1 billionth of 1 trillionth the size of a single atom. The curvature of space time tells us the universe is a closed system. So if all matter started from such a tiny space and then expanded and then bounced back or crunched back that too would support a closed system. And as such could not have been an infinite process. So therefore, the fate of the universe is thermal equilibrium. What exactly do you believe the fate of the universe is?

Perpetual Commotion.

Do you have a link for that?

Dark Matter, Dark Energy, and the Accelerating Universe | Astronomy 801: Planets, Stars, Galaxies, and the Universe

So far, we have discussed the origin of the Universe and the age of the Universe, but not its ultimate fate. This has been a question that has been pursued for many years, and a number of theorists were considering possible ideas for the fate of the Universe concurrently with the development of the Big Bang model.
snip/
We know that there is some matter in the universe (we live on a giant ball of matter called the Earth, after all), but our measurements of the luminous and dark matter in the Universe have shown that there is not enough matter to close the universe, or even to make it flat. In the mid-1990s, the data suggested that the universe is open and that the total amount of luminous matter plus dark matter in the universe was only about 30% of the critical amount necessary for a flat universe. Given that there is some matter in the Universe, though, we expected that for objects at large distances, their distances would deviate from Hubble's Law. The reason is that the combined gravitational pull of all of the objects on each other would oppose the expansion of the Universe, causing it to decelerate. Because of deceleration, at the largest distances, objects should appear closer to us than predicted by their redshift. So for many years, the question that many astronomers were pursuing using different research techniques was "How much is the universe decelerating?".

However, for supernovae, the exact opposite was found. These objects appear to be farther away from us than predicted by their redshifts and Hubble's Law. The only way for this to happen is if the expansion of the universe is accelerating, not decelerating. In order for the universe to accelerate, there must be some force pushing all of the galaxies away from each other, and this force must be strong enough to counteract the deceleration by gravity.

 

[ding]

Ultimately, if the universe reaches a state in which the temperature approaches a uniform value, no further work will be possible, resulting in a final heat death of the universe.

IF pigs had wings....

There will NEVER be a state of the universe where no work can be dune.

You didn't address this one, Ed.

What Does The Expansion Of The Universe Tell Us About The Future?

"...Over a long enough period of time, this increasing speed of expansion means that the density of objects within the Universe will decrease. If every galaxy is increasingly distant from every other galaxy, images of galaxies outside our own Milky Way will also become increasingly out of date, as the light travel time also increases. If we pursue the increasing isolation of galaxies to its logical extreme, we arrive at an end-of-Universe scenario called “heat death”. Heat death arrives when a galaxy runs out of gas to form new stars, and the stars which remain are overwhelmingly either very faint red, brown, and black dwarf stars, black holes, or neutron stars. With no new gas able to arrive into the galaxy, the galaxy must end its star formation. Once the remaining red dwarfs and other stellar objects radiate away the last of their heat, and the entire Universe has reached a single, even temperature, we have arrived at the death of heat in our Universe. This is currently our Universe’s forecast for its eventual end state - and a direct consequence of having such a large amount of Dark Energy, pressing our Universe outwards into an ever-faster expansion..."

 

[edthecynic]

Ultimately, if the universe reaches a state in which the temperature approaches a uniform value, no further work will be possible, resulting in a final heat death of the universe.

IF pigs had wings....

There will NEVER be a state of the universe where no work can be dune.

You didn't address this one, Ed.

What Does The Expansion Of The Universe Tell Us About The Future?

"...Over a long enough period of time, this increasing speed of expansion means that the density of objects within the Universe will decrease. If every galaxy is increasingly distant from every other galaxy, images of galaxies outside our own Milky Way will also become increasingly out of date, as the light travel time also increases. If we pursue the increasing isolation of galaxies to its logical extreme, we arrive at an end-of-Universe scenario called “heat death”. Heat death arrives when a galaxy runs out of gas to form new stars, and the stars which remain are overwhelmingly either very faint red, brown, and black dwarf stars, black holes, or neutron stars. With no new gas able to arrive into the galaxy, the galaxy must end its star formation. Once the remaining red dwarfs and other stellar objects radiate away the last of their heat, and the entire Universe has reached a single, even temperature, we have arrived at the death of heat in our Universe. This is currently our Universe’s forecast for its eventual end state - and a direct consequence of having such a large amount of Dark Energy, pressing our Universe outwards into an ever-faster expansion..."

The Right-wing Forbes ragazine, a true bastion of science.

 

[ding]

Ultimately, if the universe reaches a state in which the temperature approaches a uniform value, no further work will be possible, resulting in a final heat death of the universe.

IF pigs had wings....

There will NEVER be a state of the universe where no work can be dune.

Dark Matter, Dark Energy, and the Accelerating Universe | Astronomy 801: Planets, Stars, Galaxies, and the Universe

From your link, Ed...

At this point, let us reconsider the question of what will happen to the Universe over time. Right now, it is difficult to say, because we do not understand dark energy very well. However, it appears that, given the accelerating expansion of the Universe, the Universe will grow larger and larger and colder and colder. All of the luminous objects in the Universe will eventually die out, and the Universe will eventually end in a "Big Freeze," where it will be too cold to support any life.

So no mater if the universe is open, closed or isolated the fate of the universe is the same. And since we do not see this, this means the universe had a beginning.

Game, Set, Match.

 

[ding]

Ultimately, if the universe reaches a state in which the temperature approaches a uniform value, no further work will be possible, resulting in a final heat death of the universe.

IF pigs had wings....

There will NEVER be a state of the universe where no work can be dune.

You didn't address this one, Ed.

What Does The Expansion Of The Universe Tell Us About The Future?

"...Over a long enough period of time, this increasing speed of expansion means that the density of objects within the Universe will decrease. If every galaxy is increasingly distant from every other galaxy, images of galaxies outside our own Milky Way will also become increasingly out of date, as the light travel time also increases. If we pursue the increasing isolation of galaxies to its logical extreme, we arrive at an end-of-Universe scenario called “heat death”. Heat death arrives when a galaxy runs out of gas to form new stars, and the stars which remain are overwhelmingly either very faint red, brown, and black dwarf stars, black holes, or neutron stars. With no new gas able to arrive into the galaxy, the galaxy must end its star formation. Once the remaining red dwarfs and other stellar objects radiate away the last of their heat, and the entire Universe has reached a single, even temperature, we have arrived at the death of heat in our Universe. This is currently our Universe’s forecast for its eventual end state - and a direct consequence of having such a large amount of Dark Energy, pressing our Universe outwards into an ever-faster expansion..."

The Right-wing Forbes ragazine, a true bastion of science.

You mean Jillian Scudder, Assistant Professor in Physics & Astronomy at Oberlin College.

Your own link said the same thing. Checkmate

 

[ding]

Ultimately, if the universe reaches a state in which the temperature approaches a uniform value, no further work will be possible, resulting in a final heat death of the universe.

IF pigs had wings....

There will NEVER be a state of the universe where no work can be dune.

The Boston University Physics Department disagrees with you, Ed.

The second law also predicts the end of the universe: it implies that the universe will end in a "heat death" in which everything is at the same temperature. This is the ultimate level of disorder; if everything is at the same temperature, no work can be done, and all the energy will end up as the random motion of atoms and molecules.

Entropy and the second law

 

[ding]

BU is not ranked in the top 25 schools for ANY sciences.

What are your qualifications?

You do realize that your own link said the same thing, right Ed?