Dick Cheney should really stop playing the blame game.

[CurveLight]

Responsibility:
9/11--Clinton
7 years of no domestic attacks, al Waeda operatives dead or in jail--Bush
Near miss where "the system worked"--Obama.

Any questions?

This proves even with the internet and access to billions of pages of facts some people will try to re-write history no matter what.

 

[The Rabbi]

Responsibility:
9/11--Clinton
7 years of no domestic attacks, al Waeda operatives dead or in jail--Bush
Near miss where "the system worked"--Obama.

Any questions?

This proves even with the internet and access to billions of pages of facts some people will try to re-write history no matter what.

Yes but that won't stop me from posting obvious truths. I know it's wasted. I know there is a crowd of people here who cannot believe that George Bush was anything other than the Devil Incarnate, except when he was the Retard Incarnate. Such people will never be persuaded of anything, no matter how many facts you cite. There is always one more excuse, one more explanation that explains nothing, and of course one more chorus of "it was BOOOSSHHHH!!!"

 

[CurveLight]

Responsibility:
9/11--Clinton
7 years of no domestic attacks, al Waeda operatives dead or in jail--Bush
Near miss where "the system worked"--Obama.

Any questions?

This proves even with the internet and access to billions of pages of facts some people will try to re-write history no matter what.

Yes but that won't stop me from posting obvious truths. I know it's wasted. I know there is a crowd of people here who cannot believe that George Bush was anything other than the Devil Incarnate, except when he was the Retard Incarnate. Such people will never be persuaded of anything, no matter how many facts you cite. There is always one more excuse, one more explanation that explains nothing, and of course one more chorus of "it was BOOOSSHHHH!!!"

You claimed there were no domestic attacks. How fucking stupid do you want to look?

 

[Liability]

...
By pure luck, perhaps by Divine Providence, we dodged a bullet. I only hope that it has opened this President's eyes. I doubt it has opened yours.

But we haven't. The guy was singing about contacts then was treated to criminals USA. Now he's quiet, we're more threatened than necessary and it's by administrative choice.

It took me a second read-through to grasp what you were saying.

You have good point.

Yes, IF IT WERE THE CASE that this Administration HAD finally gotten the point, they WOULD NOT be arresting and indicting the underpants bomber for alleged 'crimes," thereby giving him the full-fledged "right to remain silent."

It is EXACTLY that kind of Clinton/Reno/Gorelick "thinking" that is at the root of the problem. As long as the Administration confuses terrorist activity with mere criminality, we will go on denying ourselves the tools we need.

The underpants bomber should be held as a "guest" at Gitmo and should be getting thoroughly interrogated right this very second. Instead, what does he get? Three hots and a cot and "the right to remain silent and the right to an attorney."

Right to remain silent.

These idiot uber-libs STILL don't see whay that is NOT rational. They STILL think that we are somehow upholding our cherished Constitution in giving terrorists the same "rights" as mere accused criminals.

If we caught a Nazi sabateor engaged in the act here in the USA during WWII, does ANYBODY really think he'd have been given his "right to remain silent?" Or would we all have immediately recognized (and correctly so) that he enjoyed no such "right" under the Constitution in the first place?

 

[CurveLight]

...
By pure luck, perhaps by Divine Providence, we dodged a bullet. I only hope that it has opened this President's eyes. I doubt it has opened yours.

But we haven't. The guy was singing about contacts then was treated to criminals USA. Now he's quiet, we're more threatened than necessary and it's by administrative choice.

It took me a second read-through to grasp what you were saying.

You have good point.

Yes, IF IT WERE THE CASE that this Administration HAD finally gotten the point, they WOULD NOT be arresting and indicting the underpants bomber for alleged 'crimes," thereby giving him the full-fledged "right to remain silent."

It is EXACTLY that kind of Clinton/Reno/Gorelick "thinking" that is at the root of the problem. As long as the Administration confuses terrorist activity with mere criminality, we will go on denying ourselves the tools we need.

The underpants bomber should be held as a "guest" at Gitmo and should be getting thoroughly interrogated right this very second. Instead, what does he get? Three hots and a cot and "the right to remain silent and the right to an attorney."

Right to remain silent.

These idiot uber-libs STILL don't see whay that is NOT rational. They STILL think that we are somehow upholding our cherished Constitution in giving terrorists the same "rights" as mere accused criminals.

If we caught a Nazi sabateor engaged in the act here in the USA during WWII, does ANYBODY really think he'd have been given his "right to remain silent?" Or would we all have immediately recognized (and correctly so) that he enjoyed no such "right" under the Constitution in the first place?

We all knew you hate the Constitution so why keep reminding us?

 

[Vast LWC]

Yes but that won't stop me from posting obvious truths. I know it's wasted. I know there is a crowd of people here who cannot believe that George Bush was anything other than the Devil Incarnate, except when he was the Retard Incarnate. Such people will never be persuaded of anything, no matter how many facts you cite. There is always one more excuse, one more explanation that explains nothing, and of course one more chorus of "it was BOOOSSHHHH!!!"

Except that the point of this entire thread is that I don't in fact blame Bush for 9/11, I am pointing out that by blaming Obama for the Christmas Bomber, Dick Cheney and all you people are saying that Bush is responsible for 9/11.

It's you people blaming Bush for 9/11 with your own logic, not I.

 

[CMike]

The Bush administration spent Trillions of dollars fighting a war to supposedly rid us of the terrorist networks, as well as building a comprehensive anti-terrorist network and security apparatus.

But according to the right-wing propaganda machine, and Dick Cheney, it was not the structure put in place by the Bush administration, but it was instead the leadership of the Obama administration that's at fault.

In September of 2001, the Bush administration had been given actionable intelligence that a large-scale terrorist attack was imminent. A memo was given to the president himself warning him of this threat.

The Bush administration not only simply relied upon the pre-existing infrastructure to take care of this threat, but it disregarded the intelligence it did have.

So, by the right-wing logic:

If the "Christmas Bomber" is Obama's fault...

Then 9/11 is the Bush administration's fault.

And of course good ol' Dick Cheney was second in charge.

1) Saying that a threat is looming is not actionable. A memo stating where the threat is supposed to be exactly and how it's supposed to be carried out is actionable.

2) Bill Clinton made some gigantic errors

a) The Sudan was ready to arrest and extradite bin Laden to the US, and Bill Clinton declined

If you listen to the audio in the link, Bill Clinton himself admits that he had the opportunity and didn't take it

On Tape, Clinton Admits Passing Up bin Laden Capture; Lewinsky Played Role

b) Bill Clinton made it illegal for intellegience agencies to get information from bad guys. Guess who has critical intellegience information? Bad guess. This hurt our intelligence capabilities

c) In response to the first WTC attack, Clinton sent cruise missiles to empty tents. What this told the terrorists and their state sponsors is that there wasn't going to be any consequences to attacking america.

3) Pres. Bush learned from 911, and worked to rectify it. He took down two major state sponsors of terrorism; the governments of Iraq & Afghanistan. He did something no other US president did, he took the fight to the terrorists where they were hiding.

He finally engaged in the war. Before, terrorism was just a law enforcement issue. Terrorist bomb goes off, FBI investigates, arrests and prosectues the offenders.

Pres. Bush he changed it from reactive to proactive. That instead of waiting for another terrorist strike to occur, or hoping that a terrorist won't get through the defenses, he took the fight to the terrorists, and changed where the front was going to be.

Pres. Bush changed it from a defensive war to an offensive war. One that prevents the terrorist plot before its executed.

As a result Pres. Bush has kept the US safe for years.

4) Obama has fucked it up. He started by not taking it seriously. He:

a) Started giving more and more rights to terrorists at the expense of protecting the american people

b) Not taking the war in Iraq against Al Qaida seriously

c) Letting the troop in Afghanistan dwindle, and ignoring the pleas of the commander for four months for more troops, who said the mission will fail without them

b) His homeland security secretary didn't even wanted to call terrorism, terrorism, but "man made disasters", thereby poo pooing the war.

Maybe Obama did learn his lesson after the NWA bomb incident.

As a result of Obama's recklessness, we have had 3 terrorist attacks in one year under Obama, wheras Pres. Bush kept the US safe for 7 years.

5) Cheney is absoutely right. He is warming America what will happen if Obama continues on the present course of not going all out Al Qaida in the war.

The war needs to be fought offensively, not defensively.

 

[CMike]

Apparently not....Obama has admitted as much in the last week. The bomber was added to a list and forgotten about.

The fact that we had all that data on him means he was being investigated.

The place the system failed was letting him on the airplane.

That is absolutely incorrect.

The way the system failed was not apprehending him when he was plotting, and picking up his fellow terrorist brethren.

If he didn't get on the airplane, he is then free to try and attack again, and again, and again, and again.

If he is being interrogated with his terrorist buddies in yemen by CIA operatives, and he is singing like a canary, after using "enhanced interrogation techniques" that helps do damage to Al Qaida's capabilities.

 

[CMike]

Yes but that won't stop me from posting obvious truths. I know it's wasted. I know there is a crowd of people here who cannot believe that George Bush was anything other than the Devil Incarnate, except when he was the Retard Incarnate. Such people will never be persuaded of anything, no matter how many facts you cite. There is always one more excuse, one more explanation that explains nothing, and of course one more chorus of "it was BOOOSSHHHH!!!"

Except that the point of this entire thread is that I don't in fact blame Bush for 9/11, I am pointing out that by blaming Obama for the Christmas Bomber, Dick Cheney and all you people are saying that Bush is responsible for 9/11.

It's you people blaming Bush for 9/11 with your own logic, not I.

No because Pres. Bush created a system to stop terrorist attacks, that worked for 7 years. Obama was tearing it down. That's the difference.

 

[CurveLight]

The Bush administration spent Trillions of dollars fighting a war to supposedly rid us of the terrorist networks, as well as building a comprehensive anti-terrorist network and security apparatus.

But according to the right-wing propaganda machine, and Dick Cheney, it was not the structure put in place by the Bush administration, but it was instead the leadership of the Obama administration that's at fault.

In September of 2001, the Bush administration had been given actionable intelligence that a large-scale terrorist attack was imminent. A memo was given to the president himself warning him of this threat.

The Bush administration not only simply relied upon the pre-existing infrastructure to take care of this threat, but it disregarded the intelligence it did have.

So, by the right-wing logic:

If the "Christmas Bomber" is Obama's fault...

Then 9/11 is the Bush administration's fault.

And of course good ol' Dick Cheney was second in charge.

1) Saying that a threat is looming is not actionable. A memo stating where the threat is supposed to be exactly and how it's supposed to be carried out is actionable.

2) Bill Clinton made some gigantic errors

a) The Sudan was ready to arrest and extradite bin Laden to the US, and Bill Clinton declined

If you listen to the audio in the link, Bill Clinton himself admits that he had the opportunity and didn't take it

On Tape, Clinton Admits Passing Up bin Laden Capture; Lewinsky Played Role

b) Bill Clinton made it illegal for intellegience agencies to get information from bad guys. Guess who has critical intellegience information? Bad guess. This hurt our intelligence capabilities

c) In response to the first WTC attack, Clinton sent cruise missiles to empty tents. What this told the terrorists and their state sponsors is that there wasn't going to be any consequences to attacking america.

3) Pres. Bush learned from 911, and worked to rectify it. He took down two major state sponsors of terrorism; the governments of Iraq & Afghanistan. He did something no other US president did, he took the fight to the terrorists where they were hiding.

He finally engaged in the war. Before, terrorism was just a law enforcement issue. Terrorist bomb goes off, FBI investigates, arrests and prosectues the offenders.

Pres. Bush he changed it from reactive to proactive. That instead of waiting for another terrorist strike to occur, or hoping that a terrorist won't get through the defenses, he took the fight to the terrorists, and changed where the front was going to be.

Pres. Bush changed it from a defensive war to an offensive war. One that prevents the terrorist plot before its executed.

As a result Pres. Bush has kept the US safe for years.

4) Obama has fucked it up. He started by not taking it seriously. He:

a) Started giving more and more rights to terrorists at the expense of protecting the american people

b) Not taking the war in Iraq against Al Qaida seriously

c) Letting the troop in Afghanistan dwindle, and ignoring the pleas of the commander for four months for more troops, who said the mission will fail without them

b) His homeland security secretary didn't even wanted to call terrorism, terrorism, but "man made disasters", thereby poo pooing the war.

Maybe Obama did learn his lesson after the NWA bomb incident.

As a result of Obama's recklessness, we have had 3 terrorist attacks in one year under Obama, wheras Pres. Bush kept the US safe for 7 years.

5) Cheney is absoutely right. He is warming America what will happen if Obama continues on the present course of not going all out Al Qaida in the war.

The war needs to be fought offensively, not defensively.

Do you actually believe this stuff?

 

[CMike]

The Bush administration spent Trillions of dollars fighting a war to supposedly rid us of the terrorist networks, as well as building a comprehensive anti-terrorist network and security apparatus.

But according to the right-wing propaganda machine, and Dick Cheney, it was not the structure put in place by the Bush administration, but it was instead the leadership of the Obama administration that's at fault.

In September of 2001, the Bush administration had been given actionable intelligence that a large-scale terrorist attack was imminent. A memo was given to the president himself warning him of this threat.

The Bush administration not only simply relied upon the pre-existing infrastructure to take care of this threat, but it disregarded the intelligence it did have.

So, by the right-wing logic:

If the "Christmas Bomber" is Obama's fault...

Then 9/11 is the Bush administration's fault.

And of course good ol' Dick Cheney was second in charge.

1) Saying that a threat is looming is not actionable. A memo stating where the threat is supposed to be exactly and how it's supposed to be carried out is actionable.

2) Bill Clinton made some gigantic errors

a) The Sudan was ready to arrest and extradite bin Laden to the US, and Bill Clinton declined

If you listen to the audio in the link, Bill Clinton himself admits that he had the opportunity and didn't take it

On Tape, Clinton Admits Passing Up bin Laden Capture; Lewinsky Played Role

b) Bill Clinton made it illegal for intellegience agencies to get information from bad guys. Guess who has critical intellegience information? Bad guess. This hurt our intelligence capabilities

c) In response to the first WTC attack, Clinton sent cruise missiles to empty tents. What this told the terrorists and their state sponsors is that there wasn't going to be any consequences to attacking america.

3) Pres. Bush learned from 911, and worked to rectify it. He took down two major state sponsors of terrorism; the governments of Iraq & Afghanistan. He did something no other US president did, he took the fight to the terrorists where they were hiding.

He finally engaged in the war. Before, terrorism was just a law enforcement issue. Terrorist bomb goes off, FBI investigates, arrests and prosectues the offenders.

Pres. Bush he changed it from reactive to proactive. That instead of waiting for another terrorist strike to occur, or hoping that a terrorist won't get through the defenses, he took the fight to the terrorists, and changed where the front was going to be.

Pres. Bush changed it from a defensive war to an offensive war. One that prevents the terrorist plot before its executed.

As a result Pres. Bush has kept the US safe for years.

4) Obama has fucked it up. He started by not taking it seriously. He:

a) Started giving more and more rights to terrorists at the expense of protecting the american people

b) Not taking the war in Iraq against Al Qaida seriously

c) Letting the troop in Afghanistan dwindle, and ignoring the pleas of the commander for four months for more troops, who said the mission will fail without them

b) His homeland security secretary didn't even wanted to call terrorism, terrorism, but "man made disasters", thereby poo pooing the war.

Maybe Obama did learn his lesson after the NWA bomb incident.

As a result of Obama's recklessness, we have had 3 terrorist attacks in one year under Obama, wheras Pres. Bush kept the US safe for 7 years.

5) Cheney is absoutely right. He is warming America what will happen if Obama continues on the present course of not going all out Al Qaida in the war.

The war needs to be fought offensively, not defensively.

Do you actually believe this stuff?

Yes.

 

[CurveLight]

Yes but that won't stop me from posting obvious truths. I know it's wasted. I know there is a crowd of people here who cannot believe that George Bush was anything other than the Devil Incarnate, except when he was the Retard Incarnate. Such people will never be persuaded of anything, no matter how many facts you cite. There is always one more excuse, one more explanation that explains nothing, and of course one more chorus of "it was BOOOSSHHHH!!!"

Except that the point of this entire thread is that I don't in fact blame Bush for 9/11, I am pointing out that by blaming Obama for the Christmas Bomber, Dick Cheney and all you people are saying that Bush is responsible for 9/11.

It's you people blaming Bush for 9/11 with your own logic, not I.

No because Pres. Bush created a system to stop terrorist attacks, that worked for 7 years. Obama was tearing it down. That's the difference.

Most Western Intel agencies fully agree the bush admin's actions created more terrorist attacks than anyone in modern history. You're too fucking fox news gone to even have a glimmer of hope. You even truly believe in al qaeda in iraq? Wtf?

 

[CMike]

Bill Clinton explaining why he turned down Sudan's offer to hand over Osama bin Laden to him.

I posted the link to the audio in my previous post.

Sandy Berger Defends Decision Not to Extradite Bin Laden

Bill Clinton -- "Mr. bin Laden used to live in Sudan. He was expelled from Saudi Arabia in 1991, then he went to Sudan. And we'd been hearing that the Sudanese wanted America to start meeting with them again. They released him. At the time, 1996, he had committed no crime against America so I did not bring him here because we had no basis on which to hold him, though we knew he wanted to commit crimes against America"

 

[CMike]

Except that the point of this entire thread is that I don't in fact blame Bush for 9/11, I am pointing out that by blaming Obama for the Christmas Bomber, Dick Cheney and all you people are saying that Bush is responsible for 9/11.

It's you people blaming Bush for 9/11 with your own logic, not I.

No because Pres. Bush created a system to stop terrorist attacks, that worked for 7 years. Obama was tearing it down. That's the difference.

Most Western Intel agencies fully agree the bush admin's actions created more terrorist attacks than anyone in modern history. You're too fucking fox news gone to even have a glimmer of hope. You even truly believe in al qaeda in iraq? Wtf?

Please prove it.

 

[Vast LWC]

1) Saying that a threat is looming is not actionable. A memo stating where the threat is supposed to be exactly and how it's supposed to be carried out is actionable.

The memo in question was certainly actionable. It mentions known members of Al Qaeda living in the US. It mentioned a planned major attack attack using aircraft.

Several steps could have been taken to act on this intelligence. None were.

2) Bill Clinton made some gigantic errors

a) The Sudan was ready to arrest and extradite bin Laden to the US, and Bill Clinton declined

If you listen to the audio in the link, Bill Clinton himself admits that he had the opportunity and didn't take it

On Tape, Clinton Admits Passing Up bin Laden Capture; Lewinsky Played Role

b) Bill Clinton made it illegal for intellegience agencies to get information from bad guys. Guess who has critical intellegience information? Bad guess. This hurt our intelligence capabilities

c) In response to the first WTC attack, Clinton sent cruise missiles to empty tents. What this told the terrorists and their state sponsors is that there wasn't going to be any consequences to attacking america.

This is equivalent to blaming Bush for the Christmas Bomber, occuring years before the incident in question. And having nothing to do with Obama, or the discussion at hand.

As a comparison, I would say that Bush failed to eradicate Al Qaeda, and allowed it to grow, after trillions of dollars and thousands of dead American soldiers.

3) Pres. Bush learned from 911, and worked to rectify it. He took down two major state sponsors of terrorism; the governments of Iraq & Afghanistan. He did something no other US president did, he took the fight to the terrorists where they were hiding.

Iraq had no link to Al Qaeda prior to our invasion, and was not, in any way a "major state sponsor of terrorism".

Bush diverted our attention from where Al Qaeda was to Iraq, and then when an offshoot of Al Qaeda (consisting of mainly new members) appeared in Iraq after the invasion, you people started trying to point to that as proof that they were there in the first place.

At the end of the Bush administration, Al Qaeda was larger and more widespread than it had been prior to 9/11, and had a new safe haven in Pakistan.

He finally engaged in the war. Before, terrorism was just a law enforcement issue. Terrorist bomb goes off, FBI investigates, arrests and prosectues the offenders.

Pres. Bush he changed it from reactive to proactive. That instead of waiting for another terrorist strike to occur, or hoping that a terrorist won't get through the defenses, he took the fight to the terrorists, and changed where the front was going to be.

And in that time there were literally thousands of attacks on US Soldiers and US allies, focused in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The only way to keep up Bush's strategy is TO OCCUPY BOTH COUNTRIES AND CONTINUOUSLY FIGHT A WAR, FOREVER.

Otherwise, the second we stop fighting in those countries, the attacks on civilian targets will resume.

Pres. Bush changed it from a defensive war to an offensive war. One that prevents the terrorist plot before its executed.

As a result Pres. Bush has kept the US safe for years.

That is not a strategy, it is a plan to be mired in a war until the end of time.

4) Obama has fucked it up. He started by not taking it seriously. He:

a) Started giving more and more rights to terrorists at the expense of protecting the american people

b) Not taking the war in Iraq against Al Qaida seriously

c) Letting the troop in Afghanistan dwindle, and ignoring the pleas of the commander for four months for more troops, who said the mission will fail without them

b) His homeland security secretary didn't even wanted to call terrorism, terrorism, but "man made disasters", thereby poo pooing the war.

Maybe Obama did learn his lesson after the NWA bomb incident.

As a result of Obama's recklessness, we have had 3 terrorist attacks in one year under Obama, wheras Pres. Bush kept the US safe for 7 years.

He is trying to extricate ourselves from an endless war of aggression before we end up bankrupt and defeated, like Russia in Afghanistan.

What exactly is it you want? Do you WANT the US to be in a continuous war FOREVER?

5) Cheney is absoutely right. He is warming America what will happen if Obama continues on the present course of not going all out Al Qaida in the war.

The war needs to be fought offensively, not defensively.

Cheney is a giant hypocrite, and none of what you said disproves my point.

If Obama is responsible for the Christmas bomber, than Bush and Cheney are responsible for 9/11.

 

[Vast LWC]

No because Pres. Bush created a system to stop terrorist attacks, that worked for 7 years. Obama was tearing it down. That's the difference.

Obama didn't "tear anything down".

He has not in fact closed Gitmo, he has not changed anything about Homeland Security.

The only things he did was give Miranda rights and threaten to prosecute people for TORTURING other people, neither of which had any effect on the case at hand..

You know, abiding by the Constitution and all that rot, I know you people only like to do that when it's convenient for you, but some of us take it seriously.

 

[Vast LWC]

Please prove it.

Now that's too easy.

Most of the bombings in Iraq and Afghanistan have been labeled terrorist attacks. There have been thousands of them.

Are you now saying they weren't terrorist attacks?

 

[concept]

No he shouldn't.

He should jam it down Obama's throat every chance he gets.

And keep reminding the country what an asshole he is? Works for me.

Hey if that's what it takes, then so be it.

 

[Zona]

The Bush administration spent Trillions of dollars fighting a war to supposedly rid us of the terrorist networks, as well as building a comprehensive anti-terrorist network and security apparatus.

But according to the right-wing propaganda machine, and Dick Cheney, it was not the structure put in place by the Bush administration, but it was instead the leadership of the Obama administration that's at fault.

In September of 2001, the Bush administration had been given actionable intelligence that a large-scale terrorist attack was imminent. A memo was given to the president himself warning him of this threat.

The Bush administration not only simply relied upon the pre-existing infrastructure to take care of this threat, but it disregarded the intelligence it did have.

So, by the right-wing logic:

If the "Christmas Bomber" is Obama's fault...

Then 9/11 is the Bush administration's fault.

And of course good ol' Dick Cheney was second in charge.

Now, look here you commie hippie...


Bush inherited 9/11 - which was successful - from Clinton because Clinton was a DEMOCRAT. The unsuccessful attempt that just happened was the current President's fault because he is also a DEMOCRAT.

Got that? Good. Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm gonna go disrupt a town hall meeting...


..that is, after wanking off to thoughts of Sarah Palin, Michele Bachmann and Ann Coulter in a 3-way using an American flag-painted dildo.

Great post.

 

[The Rabbi]

Please prove it.

Now that's too easy.

Most of the bombings in Iraq and Afghanistan have been labeled terrorist attacks. There have been thousands of them.

Are you now saying they weren't terrorist attacks?

That's your proof that most Western intel agencies agree U.S. actions created more terrorist attacks than anyone [sic] in modern history?
Is that some kind of joke? Is that supposed to be serious?

Were these the same intel agencies that all agreed Saddam was developing weapons of mass destruction?