Deputy accused of handcuffing third-graders in school: video

[Ravi]

If handcuff in isn't the answer....WHY do we call cops to deal with unruly children? They aren't counsors. They aren't baby sitters.

If your only tool is a hammer it follows that you will treat every problem like a nail. Through the increasingly common facility of videotape it's becoming increasingly clear what most cops are about and what to expect from them.

Time will tell what the outcome will be.

Ok
So again...WHY call them for child discipline? Parents and teachers do that shit daily. Since when did the men with guns become Nanny 911?

Society demands cops be the answer to all problems. THAT is half the problem in itself.

The cop works at the school. Why do we need power tripping cops at an elementary school? Would you still be defending this asshole if he had shot the kids?

 

[Auld Phart]

If handcuff in isn't the answer....WHY do we call cops to deal with unruly children? They aren't counsors. They aren't baby sitters.

If your only tool is a hammer it follows that you will treat every problem like a nail. Through the increasingly common facility of videotape it's becoming increasingly clear what most cops are about and what to expect from them.

Time will tell what the outcome will be.

Ok
So again...WHY call them for child discipline? Parents and teachers do that shit daily. Since when did the men with guns become Nanny 911?

Society demands cops be the answer to all problems. THAT is half the problem in itself.

They didn't 'call' him, he's a resource officer, assigned to the school.

 

[Auld Phart]

If handcuff in isn't the answer....WHY do we call cops to deal with unruly children? They aren't counsors. They aren't baby sitters.

If your only tool is a hammer it follows that you will treat every problem like a nail. Through the increasingly common facility of videotape it's becoming increasingly clear what most cops are about and what to expect from them.

Time will tell what the outcome will be.

Ok
So again...WHY call them for child discipline? Parents and teachers do that shit daily. Since when did the men with guns become Nanny 911?

Society demands cops be the answer to all problems. THAT is half the problem in itself.

The cop works at the school. Why do we need power tripping cops at an elementary school? Would you still be defending this asshole if he had shot the kids?

Why do we need power tripping cops at an elementary school?

The name Sandy Hook ring a bell?

 

[bullwinkle]

If handcuff in isn't the answer....WHY do we call cops to deal with unruly children? They aren't counsors. They aren't baby sitters.

If your only tool is a hammer it follows that you will treat every problem like a nail. Through the increasingly common facility of videotape it's becoming increasingly clear what most cops are about and what to expect from them.

Time will tell what the outcome will be.

Ok
So again...WHY call them for child discipline? Parents and teachers do that shit daily. Since when did the men with guns become Nanny 911?

Society demands cops be the answer to all problems. THAT is half the problem in itself.

They didn't 'call' him, he's a resource officer, assigned to the school.

As a lot of folks here have already pointed out, cops are called to do what parents failed to do, and what teachers are forbidden to do, namely keep order in situations they are untrained to face. Evidently the 'cop' was not assigned to the school to maintain discipline, he was there as protection from some nut with a WMD, and got called upon to solve a knotty problem as a last resort. So he solved it in the only way he knew how. And what lesson did the kids learn from this? I suspect they learned that cops are someone to fear and distrust.

 

[Zoom-boing]

This child has ADHD. They should have had the child run the track for 20 minutes or so and/or sit on a stability ball to see if that helped with his concentration/distractedness. You can't just tell kids with these (and similar) types of disorders to 'stop' because they often can not do that, like a normal kid can ... they don't possess the ability to do that on their own. Those esp with adhd .... let them burn off the excess and they will fair far better in the classroom.

 

[bullwinkle]

This child has ADHD. They should have had the child run the track for 20 minutes or so and/or sit on a stability ball to see if that helped with his concentration/distractedness. You can't just tell kids with these (and similar) types of disorders to 'stop' because they often can not do that, like a normal kid can ... they don't possess the ability to do that on their own. Those esp with adhd .... let them burn off the excess and they will fair far better in the classroom.

zoom-boing, I suspect if you were in charge of the situation, and acted as you advise in this matter, someone would call you on it and think they have a better solution. We are all doing an armchair post-op on an event where we weren't present, and have the luxury of hindsight and time to dissect and propose better ways to handle the problem. A school that serves ADHD kids ought to have a moderately trained staff and not have to resort to police to solve it's problems with special needs kids, as you suggest.

 

[MikeK]

Ok
So again...WHY call them for child discipline? Parents and teachers do that shit daily. Since when did the men with guns become Nanny 911?

Society demands cops be the answer to all problems. THAT is half the problem in itself.

I'm recalling a 1970s incident in which an older man who was fishing fell off the Canarsie Pier in Brooklyn, NY. Someone did a 911 and the police were first to arrive. By then the man had been pulled out of the water by other fishermen and was laid out on the pier.

In the absence of any other emergency personnel at the moment, one of the cops tried administering artificial respiration but by the time the ambulance arrived the man was dead.

It turned out the man had died not from drowning but from a heart attack. Because witnesses said the man's eyes were blinking when he was pulled out of the water, and because it was learned he died from cardiac arrest, his wife filed a suit against NYPD claiming he was killed by pressure applied to his chest by the cop -- who was trying to save him using the only method he was aware of.

When it was learned the cop had no training in the artificial respiration technique (some do, some don't), and medical testimony held it was possible that pressure (improperly) applied to the man's chest had caused his weakened heart to fail, a settlement was paid (very typical) to avoid trial.

If the fisherman had lived the cop would have been called a hero. But because the cop's extemporaneous action could have caused the man's death, the best response to your above comment is the most obvious. The cop at the Canarsie Pier and the cop in this handcuffing incident acted in a manner which was beyond their range of training and presumed competence.

Bottom line: The cop at the pier should have waited for the EMTs. The cop at the school should have simply advised that he's had no training in dealing with special needs children. I believe that failure will be costly to the agency which assigned him to the school.

 

[MikeK]

If handcuff in isn't the answer....WHY do we call cops to deal with unruly children? They aren't counsors. They aren't baby sitters.

Because someone is naive enough to call police to situations which are outside their range of responsibility does not mean the responding cops are required to involve themselves? This cop was not required to do what he did. He chose to -- probably because he's grown accustomed to doing what he feels like doing rather than what the book calls for and dealing with it later by offering some canned justification.

 

[bucs90]

If handcuff in isn't the answer....WHY do we call cops to deal with unruly children? They aren't counsors. They aren't baby sitters.

If your only tool is a hammer it follows that you will treat every problem like a nail. Through the increasingly common facility of videotape it's becoming increasingly clear what most cops are about and what to expect from them.

Time will tell what the outcome will be.

Ok
So again...WHY call them for child discipline? Parents and teachers do that shit daily. Since when did the men with guns become Nanny 911?

Society demands cops be the answer to all problems. THAT is half the problem in itself.

The cop works at the school. Why do we need power tripping cops at an elementary school? Would you still be defending this asshole if he had shot the kids?

I agree. Cops shouldn't be in schools. Why are they? Columbine.

Columbine happened...and America cried out for protection. Many (libs) trembled in fear at the thought of armed teachers.

So....cops went into schools. Over time...teachers outsourced discipline to those cops. Less liability and...less headache.

Now...WHICH cops go to schools? Crappier ones who can't hack it on street patrol or detective work.

There ya go. But I agree...take cops out of schools. It's not their job. Let teachers carry.

 

[bucs90]

If handcuff in isn't the answer....WHY do we call cops to deal with unruly children? They aren't counsors. They aren't baby sitters.

Because someone is naive enough to call police to situations which are outside their range of responsibility does not mean the responding cops are required to involve themselves? This cop was not required to do what he did. He chose to -- probably because he's grown accustomed to doing what he feels like doing rather than what the book calls for and dealing with it later by offering some canned justification.

Um....the book DOES call for that. Can't get a person under control? Restrain them.

Would the image of a 250 pound cop bear hugging a child be better? They'd accuse him of molesting the kid. What about holding him down on the ground? Nope. Awful.

So....how would you have done it? Sweet talk the mentally ill kid into submission? Good frigging luck.

 

[bucs90]

Ok
So again...WHY call them for child discipline? Parents and teachers do that shit daily. Since when did the men with guns become Nanny 911?

Society demands cops be the answer to all problems. THAT is half the problem in itself.

I'm recalling a 1970s incident in which an older man who was fishing fell off the Canarsie Pier in Brooklyn, NY. Someone did a 911 and the police were first to arrive. By then the man had been pulled out of the water by other fishermen and was laid out on the pier.

In the absence of any other emergency personnel at the moment, one of the cops tried administering artificial respiration but by the time the ambulance arrived the man was dead.

It turned out the man had died not from drowning but from a heart attack. Because witnesses said the man's eyes were blinking when he was pulled out of the water, and because it was learned he died from cardiac arrest, his wife filed a suit against NYPD claiming he was killed by pressure applied to his chest by the cop -- who was trying to save him using the only method he was aware of.

When it was learned the cop had no training in the artificial respiration technique (some do, some don't), and medical testimony held it was possible that pressure (improperly) applied to the man's chest had caused his weakened heart to fail, a settlement was paid (very typical) to avoid trial.

If the fisherman had lived the cop would have been called a hero. But because the cop's extemporaneous action could have caused the man's death, the best response to your above comment is the most obvious. The cop at the Canarsie Pier and the cop in this handcuffing incident acted in a manner which was beyond their range of training and presumed competence.

Bottom line: The cop at the pier should have waited for the EMTs. The cop at the school should have simply advised that he's had no training in dealing with special needs children. I believe that failure will be costly to the agency which assigned him to the school.

YES. Now that....I 100% agree with.

Police agencies have kissed too much ass. They suffer from mission creep. They try to meet so many societal demands....and FAR TOO FEW times do they just say "Sorry...not our job" and leave.

That's gonna slowly change though. We're gonna see a lot of cops tell citizens who are demanding "service" that it's not their job.

Our local department no longer helps change tires. They sit there and watch. Why? An elderly couple's wheel fell off and wrecked. They blamed a cop who helped change the tire the day before when they had a flat.

So now? Sorry. Read your owner's manual or call a tow truck.

 

[featherlite]

WAY over the top.
Not a bad thing to have police presence around schools ...but not for this reason.

 

[featherlite]

If handcuff in isn't the answer....WHY do we call cops to deal with unruly children? They aren't counsors. They aren't baby sitters.

Because someone is naive enough to call police to situations which are outside their range of responsibility does not mean the responding cops are required to involve themselves? This cop was not required to do what he did. He chose to -- probably because he's grown accustomed to doing what he feels like doing rather than what the book calls for and dealing with it later by offering some canned justification.

Um....the book DOES call for that. Can't get a person under control? Restrain them.

Would the image of a 250 pound cop bear hugging a child be better? They'd accuse him of molesting the kid. What about holding him down on the ground? Nope. Awful.

So....how would you have done it? Sweet talk the mentally ill kid into submission? Good frigging luck.

Teachers and aides should have been able to handle this. I could understand if this happened at the high school level and the "boy" was a mans size...but what is this elementary school?

 

[bullwinkle]

Ok
So again...WHY call them for child discipline? Parents and teachers do that shit daily. Since when did the men with guns become Nanny 911?

Society demands cops be the answer to all problems. THAT is half the problem in itself.

I'm recalling a 1970s incident in which an older man who was fishing fell off the Canarsie Pier in Brooklyn, NY. Someone did a 911 and the police were first to arrive. By then the man had been pulled out of the water by other fishermen and was laid out on the pier.

In the absence of any other emergency personnel at the moment, one of the cops tried administering artificial respiration but by the time the ambulance arrived the man was dead.

It turned out the man had died not from drowning but from a heart attack. Because witnesses said the man's eyes were blinking when he was pulled out of the water, and because it was learned he died from cardiac arrest, his wife filed a suit against NYPD claiming he was killed by pressure applied to his chest by the cop -- who was trying to save him using the only method he was aware of.

When it was learned the cop had no training in the artificial respiration technique (some do, some don't), and medical testimony held it was possible that pressure (improperly) applied to the man's chest had caused his weakened heart to fail, a settlement was paid (very typical) to avoid trial.
Mike, I appreciate your comments. It is an aspect I hadn't thought of prior to you input. I was simply thinking of a person being called upon and doing his best (in his mind) to help the school. I contend he should never have been asked. But I think you are more correct in thinking he should have known his limits and backed off instead.
If the fisherman had lived the cop would have been called a hero. But because the cop's extemporaneous action could have caused the man's death, the best response to your above comment is the most obvious. The cop at the Canarsie Pier and the cop in this handcuffing incident acted in a manner which was beyond their range of training and presumed competence.

Bottom line: The cop at the pier should have waited for the EMTs. The cop at the school should have simply advised that he's had no training in dealing with special needs children. I believe that failure will be costly to the agency which assigned him to the school.

 

[bullwinkle]

Ok
So again...WHY call them for child discipline? Parents and teachers do that shit daily. Since when did the men with guns become Nanny 911?

Society demands cops be the answer to all problems. THAT is half the problem in itself.

I'm recalling a 1970s incident in which an older man who was fishing fell off the Canarsie Pier in Brooklyn, NY. Someone did a 911 and the police were first to arrive. By then the man had been pulled out of the water by other fishermen and was laid out on the pier.

In the absence of any other emergency personnel at the moment, one of the cops tried administering artificial respiration but by the time the ambulance arrived the man was dead.

It turned out the man had died not from drowning but from a heart attack. Because witnesses said the man's eyes were blinking when he was pulled out of the water, and because it was learned he died from cardiac arrest, his wife filed a suit against NYPD claiming he was killed by pressure applied to his chest by the cop -- who was trying to save him using the only method he was aware of.

When it was learned the cop had no training in the artificial respiration technique (some do, some don't), and medical testimony held it was possible that pressure (improperly) applied to the man's chest had caused his weakened heart to fail, a settlement was paid (very typical) to avoid trial.
Mike, I appreciate your comments. It is an aspect I hadn't thought of prior to you input. I was simply thinking of a person being called upon and doing his best (in his mind) to help the school. I contend he should never have been asked. But I think you are more correct in thinking he should have known his limits and backed off instead.
If the fisherman had lived the cop would have been called a hero. But because the cop's extemporaneous action could have caused the man's death, the best response to your above comment is the most obvious. The cop at the Canarsie Pier and the cop in this handcuffing incident acted in a manner which was beyond their range of training and presumed competence.

Bottom line: The cop at the pier should have waited for the EMTs. The cop at the school should have simply advised that he's had no training in dealing with special needs children. I believe that failure will be costly to the agency which assigned him to the school.

 

[JakeStarkey]

ADHA is not a disability.

The officer acted appropriately.

The family needs to be counter-sued, the child placed in protective custody.

 

[Zoom-boing]

This child has ADHD. They should have had the child run the track for 20 minutes or so and/or sit on a stability ball to see if that helped with his concentration/distractedness. You can't just tell kids with these (and similar) types of disorders to 'stop' because they often can not do that, like a normal kid can ... they don't possess the ability to do that on their own. Those esp with adhd .... let them burn off the excess and they will fair far better in the classroom.

zoom-boing, I suspect if you were in charge of the situation, and acted as you advise in this matter, someone would call you on it and think they have a better solution. We are all doing an armchair post-op on an event where we weren't present, and have the luxury of hindsight and time to dissect and propose better ways to handle the problem. A school that serves ADHD kids ought to have a moderately trained staff and not have to resort to police to solve it's problems with special needs kids, as you suggest.

Everyone always thinks they have a better solution. Drugging and handcuffing adhd kids isn't a better solution, imo. If I were the teacher in the classroom I'd make sure the adhd kids were able to burn off the excess via physical activity and my advice to the parents wouldn't be to drug their kids up but to involve them in sports and clean up the kids diet instead.

A school that serves adhd kids? I don't know what that means. Special needs kids are part of schools, schools provide iep's (individual education plans) for special needs kids, they do have trained staff (well, the schools in my district do). The question is, how much are teachers expected to "police" special needs kids? Not all s/n kids belong in a regular classroom setting because they're too disruptive to the other students. Many teachers want these kids on pharmaceuticals because it makes their job easier. It's a huge push in schools to be 'inclusive'; sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn't.

 

[Zoom-boing]

If handcuff in isn't the answer....WHY do we call cops to deal with unruly children? They aren't counsors. They aren't baby sitters.

Because someone is naive enough to call police to situations which are outside their range of responsibility does not mean the responding cops are required to involve themselves? This cop was not required to do what he did. He chose to -- probably because he's grown accustomed to doing what he feels like doing rather than what the book calls for and dealing with it later by offering some canned justification.

Um....the book DOES call for that. Can't get a person under control? Restrain them.

Would the image of a 250 pound cop bear hugging a child be better? They'd accuse him of molesting the kid. What about holding him down on the ground? Nope. Awful.

So....how would you have done it? Sweet talk the mentally ill kid into submission? Good frigging luck.

Actually, bear-hugging some special needs kids is exactly the thing that will help calm them down.

 

[Zoom-boing]

ADHA is not a disability.

The officer acted appropriately.

The family needs to be counter-sued, the child placed in protective custody.

It's adhd and you are correct, it is not a disability. It is a disorder.
You have no idea because only a snippet of video is shown.
Do tell how you come to this conclusion.

 

[MikeK]

Um....the book DOES call for that. Can't get a person under control? Restrain them.

This is exactly what I mean by canned justification for taking some action which is wrong, excessive, or illegal. This is a little kid we're talking about. If you tried that " . . can't get a person under control. Restrain them." routine in court if that kid's parents filed suit their lawyer would thank you sincerely.

Again; when your only tool is a hammer . . .

Would the image of a 250 pound cop bear hugging a child be better? They'd accuse him of molesting the kid. What about holding him down on the ground? Nope. Awful.

Who said that cop was required to anything in that situation?

Did that little kid represent a threat to anyone there. Was he behaving in a manner which any ordinary adult would be unable to control? Was he armed. Was he harming himself?
That was absolutely not a problem for armed police and the person who called for a cop is an ignoramus with special needs for some very basic information.

So....how would you have done it? Sweet talk the mentally ill kid into submission? Good frigging luck.

If I were a cop? I would have advised the person who called me that I have no training in that area and he/she should immediately contact his/her supervisor or some resident or available professional for instructions. And if no such individuals are available -- then you restrain the little boy and let me get back to protecting the public against dangerous criminals, which is my job.