Denied! Judge Blocks New Florida Welfare Drug Testing Law

[RodISHI]

I'm all for drug testing if it applies to judges, doctors, lawyers and every public employee and politician out there. Basically anyone who recieves public money of any kind whatsoever. Wow, that covers bankers and corporates too. Deal, I'm in if everyone getting public money of any kind is included.

 

[JoeB131]

I'm all for drug testing if it applies to judges, doctors, lawyers and every public employee and politician out there. Basically anyone who recieves public money of any kind whatsoever. Wow, that covers bankers and corporates too. Deal, I'm in if everyone getting public money of any kind is included.

I have no problem with that.

Except for the politicians, most of them already do.

 

[bripat9643]

1600 didn't fail the test, they refused it jackass, reading comprehension!

The bottom line, knucklehead, is they didn't pass the test. One rightly assumes they refused to take it because they knew they would not pass. Why else would anyone turn down free money?

 

[bripat9643]

I think we should make Rick Scott submit to random pee tests. The guy is pretty batshit crazy and I have to wonder if drugs are contributing to that craziness.

At this point I think the whole group of GOP candidates should take one. They are all nuts!!

View attachment 15844

Fine, so long as Obama also has to take one.

 

[hortysir]

Joe, find your supposed drug addicts in another way that is not unconstitutional.....

I am all for that.....

but that is not the argument here.....the argument is not, wanting or not wanting those who take illegal drugs to receive welfare....

the argument is whether our government can conduct an illegal search and seizure of the citizen's urine....without probable cause.

Where is the probable cause? Do you have proof that ALL recipients of welfare take illegal drugs? Is there anything that you have that should allow our gvt to take all welfare citizen's piss?

Again, where is the probable cause to allow this search and seizure of our gvt.?

Read the constitution.....that's what this is about....

I don't think it should be illegal. It is Gov't. money, they should have to follow certain guidlines. Besides, they are not being forced to take urine tests, it is a choice; test and pass or no money. They can choose not to test, but they get no money.

It is unconstitutional, that is all that matters......AF.

I believe when it makes it through the courts, this WILL BE the results....unconstitutional to boot!

If you put America First, as your name implies, then you would join me in protecting our constitution. You can't let the "i don't want this and I don't want that" get in the way.....of standing by the constitution imo.

As for "unconstitutional" that would depend on the state as this is a state issue.
And if one signs and agrees, in advance, to this "illegal" search wouldn't their consent void the word "illegal"?

 

[Inthemiddle]

It's not like the government is busting into their homes and taking their wee-wee.

It doesn't have to be. The government is requiring an examination of one's bodily fluids. It is still a search of the most intrusive kind.

 

[Inthemiddle]

Quite right, Mad Hatter. It is out money. We earned it and the government takes us from us. Which means we have every right to insist that they aren't wasting it by subsidizing people's bad lifestyles...

Actually, no. The populace at large does NOT have a right to demand that the constitutional rights of certain people be infringed upon.

 

[Inthemiddle]

One rightly assumes

No, you're wrongly assuming, based on nothing but your own prejudice and determination to spread your big government ideals, making an ass out of yourself all the way along. When this was discussed in an earlier thread last week, the article already discussed the people who didn't take the test and the reasons why.

they refused to take it because they knew they would not pass. Why else would anyone turn down free money?

They didn't even "refuse" to take it. They simply didn't take it, for whatever reason. Generally, they either didn't have transportation to the testing facility or they did not have the money to pay for the test. Ya know, because they're poor.

 

[Inthemiddle]

As for "unconstitutional" that would depend on the state as this is a state issue.

Not true. A state law cannot violate the federal constitution.

And if one signs and agrees, in advance, to this "illegal" search wouldn't their consent void the word "illegal"?

No. The fourth amendment does not operate in such a way that the government can impose conditions that approximate compulsion. Fourth amendment rights do not operate strictly upon nominal conditions such as "consent," "under arrest," etc. The courts have long maintained that what determines the reasonableness of a search and/or seizure for 4th amendment purposes is the de facto situation. Nominal consent does not suffice, and when that consent is coerced in some means (such as promising something desirable in return) then the quid pro quo nature renders the situation non consensual de facto.

 

[hortysir]

As for "unconstitutional" that would depend on the state as this is a state issue.

Not true. A state law cannot violate the federal constitution.

And if one signs and agrees, in advance, to this "illegal" search wouldn't their consent void the word "illegal"?

No. The fourth amendment does not operate in such a way that the government can impose conditions that approximate compulsion. Fourth amendment rights do not operate strictly upon nominal conditions such as "consent," "under arrest," etc. The courts have long maintained that what determines the reasonableness of a search and/or seizure for 4th amendment purposes is the de facto situation. Nominal consent does not suffice, and when that consent is coerced in some means (such as promising something desirable in return) then the quid pro quo nature renders the situation non consensual de facto.

That first part is exactly why we went to war against the North.
Our country wasn't formed in such a way that the states shouldn't have to answer to the federal gov't.

As to that 2nd part?
Just a bunch of legal-eze mumbo jumbo to me.

 

[WillowTree]

Fla. should just stop handing out any form of welfare. That should cover the situation nicely.. and protect the taxpayers.

 

[The T]

Fla. should just stop handing out any form of welfare. That should cover the situation nicely.. and protect the taxpayers.

Yes we should.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

The bottom line, knucklehead, is they didn't pass the test. One rightly assumes they refused to take it because they knew they would not pass.

The ‘bottom line,’ O ignorant one, is that the State of Florida failed to demonstrate that the drug tests were warranted: all the evidence, data, and research provided the court were garbage.

Why else would anyone turn down free money?

Because, O ignorant one, the money isn’t ‘free.’ TANF recipients are required to work-off the Cash and Food Stamps doing community service; they work the same hours they’d need to at minimum wage to receive the same in benefits as earned income.

 

[The T]

As for "unconstitutional" that would depend on the state as this is a state issue.

Not true. A state law cannot violate the federal constitution.

And if one signs and agrees, in advance, to this "illegal" search wouldn't their consent void the word "illegal"?

No. The fourth amendment does not operate in such a way that the government can impose conditions that approximate compulsion. Fourth amendment rights do not operate strictly upon nominal conditions such as "consent," "under arrest," etc. The courts have long maintained that what determines the reasonableness of a search and/or seizure for 4th amendment purposes is the de facto situation. Nominal consent does not suffice, and when that consent is coerced in some means (such as promising something desirable in return) then the quid pro quo nature renders the situation non consensual de facto.

YES it can if such a law is covered within the body of the Constitution that has Federal Jusridiction within the Constitution and the Amendments.

 

[jillian]

Fla. should just stop handing out any form of welfare. That should cover the situation nicely.. and protect the taxpayers.

maybe your medicare should be stopped?

go out and pay for your healthcare yourself.

not on my dime.

 

[WillowTree]

Fla. should just stop handing out any form of welfare. That should cover the situation nicely.. and protect the taxpayers.

maybe your medicare should be stopped?

go out and pay for your healthcare yourself.

not on my dime.

send back all the money that was forced out of my pocketbook and I'll do just that.. thanks maw maw.. is the check in da mail?

 

[The T]

There ARE numerous Federal Laws that circumvent the Ninth and Tenth Amendments.

 

[JoeB131]

It's not like the government is busting into their homes and taking their wee-wee.

It doesn't have to be. The government is requiring an examination of one's bodily fluids. It is still a search of the most intrusive kind.

Well, then they should go out and get a real job rather than sponging off the rest of us...

 

[JoeB131]

Quite right, Mad Hatter. It is out money. We earned it and the government takes us from us. Which means we have every right to insist that they aren't wasting it by subsidizing people's bad lifestyles...

Actually, no. The populace at large does NOT have a right to demand that the constitutional rights of certain people be infringed upon.

They do when they are asking to live off of us. Just like my employer has a right to ask me to take a drug test before allowing me to spend their money.

 

[hortysir]

Fla. should just stop handing out any form of welfare. That should cover the situation nicely.. and protect the taxpayers.

maybe your medicare should be stopped?

go out and pay for your healthcare yourself.

not on my dime.

It's not.
Medicare is on each recipient's dime, as they're the ones that have paid for it over the years.

If it IS costing you your tax dollars that's something you should take up with your representatives and tell them to quit raiding the coffers.