Demystifying Shariah Law: What It Is, & Why It's Not Taking Over USA...we need anti-Islamophobia education in the wake of Rezwan Kohistani's lynching

Polishprince said:
Anne Frank wasn't an American, and wasn't persecuted by Americans. It was the Eurotrash that whacked her.

Further, the Germans saw Judaism as a "race", not a faith at all, and clipped a lot of Christians and others who had Jewish ancestors.
Click to expand...

I disagree.
The Holocaust was not about race or religion, but loyalty.
Zionists sold out Germany in WWI, in exchange for the Balfour Declaration, and that was a betrayal the Germans could not accept or easily forgive.
There were over 100,000 Jews in the German Wehrmact that Hitler never bothered in the least.
 
Darkwind said:
Sharia law says it is okay to lie to infidels.

I don't really give a fuck about your trying to end Islamaphobia.

Keep the shit in your lane and STFU.
Click to expand...

That is not accurate.
Sharia says you are never supposed to lie and it is always bad, but if the person is going to cause harm to others, then lying is the least harmful.

The point is Islamophobia is based on ignorance.
While I think we now can do better than Islam, it is an incredible step forward for its time.
For example, there really was no concept of public services before Isalm, so Islam started things like welfare for widow, orphans, education, health care, law, etc.
It is one of the greatest advancements ever, in human civilization.
 
basquebromance said:
Through scare tactics and deliberate misinformation campaigns, anti-Muslim propagandists insist wrongly that shariah is a draconian and oppressive Islamic law that all Muslims must abide by. They circulate horror stories, encouraging Americans to fear the “takeover of shariah” law in America and even mounting “anti-shariah protests”…with zero evidence that shariah has taken over any part of our country. (That’s because it hasn’t.) It would be almost funny if it weren’t so terrifyingly wrong – as puzzling as if Americans suddenly began protesting the Martian occupation of Earth.

Shariah is not one set of punitive rules or even law the way we think of law – rigid and enforceable – but religious rules and recommendations that provide Muslims with guidance in various aspects of life.

This is obviously a challenging project, and it's hard to find any links that defend Shariah, so i will include an anti-Shariah link for now

Click to expand...
If you don't follow the recommendations, in most muslim sects you are punished---with stoning, whipping, rapes, jail, torture, killed etc.

Spare us---we all know that islam teaches hate, slavery, rape, and murder.
 
basquebromance said:
Bill Maher is homophobic, transphobic, Islamophobic, xenophobic, racist, sexist, fatphobic, and ableist. It’s who he has long shown himself to be.
Click to expand...

True, but he is still one of the better influences on TV.
 
Rigby5 said:
That is not accurate.
Sharia says you are never supposed to lie and it is always bad, but if the person is going to cause harm to others, then lying is the least harmful.

The point is Islamophobia is based on ignorance.
While I think we now can do better than Islam, it is an incredible step forward for its time.
For example, there really was no concept of public services before Isalm, so Islam started things like welfare for widow, orphans, education, health care, law, etc.
It is one of the greatest advancements ever, in human civilization.
Click to expand...
The Koran says flatly to lie to infidels in order to deceive them.
 
Fort Fun Indiana said:
A fine example of how the merit of a code of law can be measured by how much it is NOT sharia.
Click to expand...

I do not get your point, in that Sharia is the origin of all western law.
Before that, law was arbitrary and based on whatever an autocratic monarch decreed.
Sharia was the first significant attempt at the rule of law, blind justice, etc.
It put judges over tyrants.
{...
A “mufti” is an Islamic jurisconsult used by Muslim-majority Egypt as part of its legal system, which is based on Islamic law, or sharia. Egypt’s constitution states that “Islam is the religion of the state … and the principles of Islamic sharia are the main sources of legislation.”
...}
 
Turtlesoup said:
If you don't follow the recommendations, in most muslim sects you are punished---with stoning, whipping, rapes, jail, torture, killed etc.

Spare us---we all know that islam teaches hate, slavery, rape, and murder.
Click to expand...

Not true.
Sharia is mostly about rules for marriage, welfare, etc.
The stories about stoning for adultery are not Sharia, but predate Mohammad and come from the Old Testament Judaism.
 
basquebromance said:
Through scare tactics and deliberate misinformation campaigns, anti-Muslim propagandists insist wrongly that shariah is a draconian and oppressive Islamic law that all Muslims must abide by. They circulate horror stories, encouraging Americans to fear the “takeover of shariah” law in America and even mounting “anti-shariah protests”…with zero evidence that shariah has taken over any part of our country. (That’s because it hasn’t.) It would be almost funny if it weren’t so terrifyingly wrong – as puzzling as if Americans suddenly began protesting the Martian occupation of Earth.

Shariah is not one set of punitive rules or even law the way we think of law – rigid and enforceable – but religious rules and recommendations that provide Muslims with guidance in various aspects of life.

This is obviously a challenging project, and it's hard to find any links that defend Shariah, so i will include an anti-Shariah link for now

Click to expand...
I'm not even seeing where the death has been ruled a homicide so why are you declaring it was a lynching?
 
Turtlesoup said:
The Koran says flatly to lie to infidels in order to deceive them.
Click to expand...

Only if necessary in order to prevent harm to others.
{...
Generally speaking, lying is shunned in Islam. However, there is a practice called taqiyya where lying is permissible under three conditions: battle, reconciliation of people, reconciling of spouses. Muhammad advocated against lying and he said lying against him would result in going to hell. But generally, lying is to be shunned. However, the Christian must be aware that a Muslim can practice lying in order to advance Islam.

  1. Shun what is false
    1. Surah 22:30, “Such (is the Pilgrimage): whoever honours the sacred rites of Allah, for him it is good in the Sight of his Lord. Lawful to you (for food in Pilgrimage) are cattle, except those mentioned to you (as exception): but shun the abomination of idols, and shun the word that is false.”
  2. Lying against Allah is forbidden
    1. Surah 6:93, “Who can be more wicked than one who inventeth a lie against Allah, or saith, “I have received inspiration,” when he hath received none, or (again) who saith, “I can reveal the like of what Allah hath revealed”? If thou couldst but see how the wicked (do fare) in the flood of confusion at death!—the angels stretch forth their hands, (saying),“Yield up your souls: this day shall ye receive your reward—a penalty of shame, for that ye used to tell lies against Allah, and scornfully to reject of His signs!”
  3. Lying against Muhammad gets you hell
    1. Narrated Al-Mughira: I heard the Prophet saying, “Ascribing false things to me is not like ascribing false things to anyone else. Whosoever tells a lie against me intentionally then surely let him occupy his seat in Hell-Fire.” I heard the Prophet saying, “The deceased who is wailed over is tortured for that wailing.” (Sahih Bukhari, Book #23, Hadith #378)
  4. Lying forbidden except in three cases: battle, reconciliation, to spouse
    1. “Humaid b. ‘Abd al-Rahman b. ‘Auf reported that his mother Umm Kulthum daughter of ‘Uqba b. Abu Mu’ait, and she was one amongst the first emigrants who pledged allegiance to Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him), as saying that she heard Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: A liar is not one who tries to bring reconciliation amongst people and speaks good (in order to avert dispute), or he conveys good. Ibn Shihab said he did not hear that exemption was granted in anything what the people speak as lie but in three cases: in battle, for bringing reconciliation amongst persons and the narration of the words of the husband to his wife, and the narration of the words of a wife to her husband (in a twisted form in order to bring reconciliation between them).” (Sahih Muslim, Book #032, Hadith #6303)
  5. Lying is okay if it makes peace between people
    1. Narrated Um Kulthum bint Uqba: That she heard Allah’s Apostle saying, “He who makes peace between the people by inventing good information or saying good things, is not a liar.” (Sahih Bukhari, Book #49, Hadith #857)
  6. Muhammad permitted lying
    1. Narrated Jabir bin ‘Abdullah: Allah’s Apostle said, “Who is willing to kill Ka’b bin Al-Ashraf who has hurt Allah and His Apostle?” Thereupon Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, “O Allah’s Apostle! Would you like that I kill him?” The Prophet said, “Yes,” Muhammad bin Maslama said, “Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Kab). “The Prophet said, “You may say it.” (Sahih Bukhari, Book #59, Hadith #369)
  7. Permissible under compulsion
    1. Surah 16:106, “Any one who, after accepting faith in Allah, utters Unbelief—except under compulsion, his heart remaining firm in Faith—but such as open their breast to Unbelief, on them is Wrath from Allah, and theirs will be a dreadful Penalty.”
...}
carm.org

Islam by topic: Lying

Islam teaches that lying is mostly wrong but is permissible in war, reconciliation of people, between spouses, or in other such situations.
carm.org carm.org
 
Rigby5 said:
Only if necessary in order to prevent harm to others.
{...
Generally speaking, lying is shunned in Islam. However, there is a practice called taqiyya where lying is permissible under three conditions: battle, reconciliation of people, reconciling of spouses. Muhammad advocated against lying and he said lying against him would result in going to hell. But generally, lying is to be shunned. However, the Christian must be aware that a Muslim can practice lying in order to advance Islam.

  1. Shun what is false
    1. Surah 22:30, “Such (is the Pilgrimage): whoever honours the sacred rites of Allah, for him it is good in the Sight of his Lord. Lawful to you (for food in Pilgrimage) are cattle, except those mentioned to you (as exception): but shun the abomination of idols, and shun the word that is false.”
  2. Lying against Allah is forbidden
    1. Surah 6:93, “Who can be more wicked than one who inventeth a lie against Allah, or saith, “I have received inspiration,” when he hath received none, or (again) who saith, “I can reveal the like of what Allah hath revealed”? If thou couldst but see how the wicked (do fare) in the flood of confusion at death!—the angels stretch forth their hands, (saying),“Yield up your souls: this day shall ye receive your reward—a penalty of shame, for that ye used to tell lies against Allah, and scornfully to reject of His signs!”
  3. Lying against Muhammad gets you hell
    1. Narrated Al-Mughira: I heard the Prophet saying, “Ascribing false things to me is not like ascribing false things to anyone else. Whosoever tells a lie against me intentionally then surely let him occupy his seat in Hell-Fire.” I heard the Prophet saying, “The deceased who is wailed over is tortured for that wailing.” (Sahih Bukhari, Book #23, Hadith #378)
  4. Lying forbidden except in three cases: battle, reconciliation, to spouse
    1. “Humaid b. ‘Abd al-Rahman b. ‘Auf reported that his mother Umm Kulthum daughter of ‘Uqba b. Abu Mu’ait, and she was one amongst the first emigrants who pledged allegiance to Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him), as saying that she heard Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: A liar is not one who tries to bring reconciliation amongst people and speaks good (in order to avert dispute), or he conveys good. Ibn Shihab said he did not hear that exemption was granted in anything what the people speak as lie but in three cases: in battle, for bringing reconciliation amongst persons and the narration of the words of the husband to his wife, and the narration of the words of a wife to her husband (in a twisted form in order to bring reconciliation between them).” (Sahih Muslim, Book #032, Hadith #6303)
  5. Lying is okay if it makes peace between people
    1. Narrated Um Kulthum bint Uqba: That she heard Allah’s Apostle saying, “He who makes peace between the people by inventing good information or saying good things, is not a liar.” (Sahih Bukhari, Book #49, Hadith #857)
  6. Muhammad permitted lying
    1. Narrated Jabir bin ‘Abdullah: Allah’s Apostle said, “Who is willing to kill Ka’b bin Al-Ashraf who has hurt Allah and His Apostle?” Thereupon Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, “O Allah’s Apostle! Would you like that I kill him?” The Prophet said, “Yes,” Muhammad bin Maslama said, “Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Kab). “The Prophet said, “You may say it.” (Sahih Bukhari, Book #59, Hadith #369)
  7. Permissible under compulsion
    1. Surah 16:106, “Any one who, after accepting faith in Allah, utters Unbelief—except under compulsion, his heart remaining firm in Faith—but such as open their breast to Unbelief, on them is Wrath from Allah, and theirs will be a dreadful Penalty.”
...}
carm.org

Islam by topic: Lying

Islam teaches that lying is mostly wrong but is permissible in war, reconciliation of people, between spouses, or in other such situations.
carm.org carm.org
Click to expand...
That's a hell of a rewrite ignoring the obvious.

 
Redfish said:
Islam is not compatible with the US constitution. it establishes a religion as the body of law controlling a nation, it is anti freedom and calls for the killing of anyone who is not muslim. Sharia is merely the method of implementing the Koran as the law of a nation. Islam has no place in the USA.
Click to expand...

It is true Islam is not fully compatible with the US because it was before the US, so conflicts with somethings we prefer government do instead of religion.
But imagine back in 640 AD and all the governments were autocracies?
Then it is better to have a religion that protect people instead of leaving them to the mercy of autocrats.

But Islam most certainly does not ever call for the killing of anyone who is not harmful.
And certainly not to harm over religion.
That is strictly forbidden.
And in fact, Mohammad was quite clear that he said Judaism and Christianity were equally valid religions to Islam.
 
Rigby5 said:
It is true Islam is not fully compatible with the US because it was before the US, so conflicts with somethings we prefer government do instead of religion.
But imagine back in 640 AD and all the governments were autocracies?
Then it is better to have a religion that protect people instead of leaving them to the mercy of autocrats.

But Islam most certainly does not ever call for the killing of anyone who is not harmful.
And certainly not to harm over religion.
That is strictly forbidden.
And in fact, Mohammad was quite clear that he said Judaism and Christianity were equally valid religions to Islam.
Click to expand...
Christianity predates Islam by 600 years and is certainly not incompatible with the US.
 
Uranus said:
And how is it NOT sharia? Do you know how to prove something is or is not sharia?
Click to expand...
As a general rule, look at the texts.

In a specific case, look up specific texts:


Traditional jurisprudence[edit]​

Classical/traditional Islamic jurisprudence (fiqh) treats homicide as a civil dispute between victim and perpetrator,[9] rather than an act requiring corrective punishment by the state to maintain order.[10] In all cases of murder, unintentional homicide, bodily injury and property damage, under classical/traditional Islamic law, the prosecutor is not the state, but only the victim or the victim's heir (or owner, in the case when the victim is a slave). Qisas can only be demanded by the victim or victim's heirs.[11]

Differences in treatment according to religion and status of victim
In the early history of Islam, there were considerable disagreements in Muslim judicial opinions on applicability of Qisas and Diyya when a Muslim murdered a non-Muslim (Dhimmi, Musta'min or slave).[12][13] (In yet another class were murdered apostates from and blasphemers of Islam, non-Muslims who refused to accept dhimmi status, etc.)

According to classical jurists of three of the four Sunni Islamic schools of jurisprudence -- Shafi'i,[14] Maliki and Hanbali schools -- qisas is available only when the victim is Muslim; while the Hanafi school holds it may apply in some circumstances when a Muslim has done harm to a non-Muslim.[15][16][17]

Jurists agree neither Qisas nor any other form of compensation applied in cases where the victim is

  • an apostate (converted from Islam to another religion),
  • a person who has committed the hadd crime of transgression against Islam or Imam (baghy), or
  • a non-Muslim who did not accept himself or herself as a Dhimmi, or
  • if the non-Muslim victim's family could not prove that the victim used to pay Jizya.[12][18]
Numerous Hanafi, Shafi'i and Maliki jurists stated that a Muslim and a non-Muslim are neither equal nor of same status under sharia, and thus the judicial process and punishment applicable must vary.[19] This was justified by the hadith:[19]

Narrated Abdullah ibn Amr ibn al-'As: The Prophet said: A believer will not be killed for an infidel. If anyone kills a man deliberately, he is to be handed over to the relatives of the one who has been killed. If they wish, they may kill, but if they wish, they may accept blood-wit.
Click to expand...

- Wiki

********************
Or you can just go fundie Islam and assume the whole of Sharia and the whole of the Quran are one in the same, absolute list of truths, and pull this one out. The Taliban do it routinely:

Surah 2:191: "And kill them (non-Muslims) wherever you find them … kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers (non-Muslims)."

Surah 9:5: "Then kill the disbelievers (non-Muslims) wherever you find them, capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush …"
 
Redfish said:
no they do not. and the mid east has been a bloodbath for 3000 years because of islamic teachings and beliefs. Sharia is the implementation of the koran as a body of law, if you don't understand that then you are wasting our time here.
Click to expand...

Wrong.
Islam ended much of the local tribal violence in the Mideast by unifying the small tribes together under a larger abstraction.
The violence that came later after Mohammad was dead, was due to Mongols, Moghuls, and Turks invading, massacring Moslem authority, and taking over, pretending to be Moslems.
Then of course there are the Crusades, which are Europeans pretending to be Christians so they can wage wars of aggression.
 
Rigby5 said:
Not true.
Sharia is mostly about rules for marriage, welfare, etc.
The stories about stoning for adultery are not Sharia, but predate Mohammad and come from the Old Testament Judaism.
Click to expand...
Muslims stone both gays and women to death ---by religious decree
 
Redfish said:
so when sharia and the constitution disagree what do muslims in the usa do? hint: they do not follow the constitution, honor killings, murder of jews, murder of Christians. it is the most intolerant religion on earth.
Click to expand...

Honor killings are from the Old Testament, so are Judaism, not Sharia or in the Quran.
The Quran and Mohammad were quite clear that Jews and Christians were not to be harmed in any way, much less murdered.
It is a strict religion for my tastes, but not at all intolerant of other religions.
 
Turtlesoup said:
If you don't follow the recommendations, in most muslim sects you are punished---with stoning, whipping, rapes, jail, torture, killed etc.

Spare us---we all know that islam teaches hate, slavery, rape, and murder.
Click to expand...
There is no such a punishment in Islam as rape or torture. Murder as a legal punishment is the capital punishment, which the US also applies.

One isn't punished for failing to follow "recommendations", but for crimes, just like everywhere else in the world.

Stoning is to death — it is a capital punishment.
 
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