Democrats scramble on health care after GOP win

[Vast LWC]

Two words:

Nuclear Option

two words:

ha ha

"ha ha" what?

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

If Republicans can use the threat of a Nuclear Option to force Democrats to go along with them, like they did a few years back, then Dems should certainly be able to fight fire with fire.

They need to grow themselves a set of balls and do what they need to do.

Not to mention the fact that Senate Republicans really only represent like 25% of the populace.

 

[Zander]

What you think, Zander, is immaterial.

It's not just me FakeJake, everyone here knows you're not a conservative. You can drop the charade.

No, son, you far right wannabees have not taken over the party. Watch what Scott Brown has done and will do: get the bagger vote then ignore them.

Remind us again how you're supposed to be a conservative? you really are a joke FakeJake!! Why don't you have the courage of your convictions and admit you're a liberal? Do you really think you're fooling anyone? Seriously??

 

[MaggieMae]

Fake Jake's Douchebaggery knows no bounds. He still thinks he is fooling some people here....

What you think, Zander, is immaterial.

It's not just me FakeJake, everyone here knows you're not a conservative. You can drop the charade.

Hate to burst your phony bubble, Zander, but all the "conservative" Republicans in my own family are not radical thinking like you and your ilk all high-fiving each other in your silly poll, posted only to draw attention to yourself. They all trend more like Jake, and they all come from back in the day when the GOP was once proud of its accomplishments in helping to improve the social status of all Americans, not just a select few. They also realized that do be successful, some things cost money--a lot of it--and surprise surprise, that translates into taxes.

 

[MaggieMae]

Two words:

Nuclear Option

I think that is the most likely conclusion. If the Dems don't, then the Republicans will win many, many seats this fall, maybe taking back Congress. I did not think that was possible, but the Dem leadership, including BHO, have not show the guts of their opponents to get in there and fight. Palin may be a quitter, but most of the GOP powerhouses are not. They will fight, and the Dems had better step up if they want to continue ruling.

I repeat: That tactic will be political suicide. There are far too many voting Americans who have been completely brainwashed by the negative reporting since the Obama administration began. They believe what talk radio, Fox et al. reports which gets immediately transmitted over the Internet to tens of thousands of bloggers who then fill mailboxes with their version(s) and solution(s) to all our problems if only, alas, we didn't have Democrats in the majority.

The better plan would be to do nothing. Let the Republicans win enough seats to make some noise in Washington and see what they will do with this mess (particularly jobs, which conservatives believe can be grown on trees if the president would just snap his fingers, but he's being mean and won't do it). I say let them try to do better. Anyone want to take bets at this point that they can't?

 

[Zander]

What you think, Zander, is immaterial.

It's not just me FakeJake, everyone here knows you're not a conservative. You can drop the charade.

Hate to burst your phony bubble, Zander, but all the "conservative" Republicans in my own family are not radical thinking like you and your ilk all high-fiving each other in your silly poll, posted only to draw attention to yourself. They all trend more like Jake, and they all come from back in the day when the GOP was once proud of its accomplishments in helping to improve the social status of all Americans, not just a select few. They also realized that do be successful, some things cost money--a lot of it--and surprise surprise, that translates into taxes.

What's this ? Another liberal defending FakeJake?? ...wow, what a surprise!!!

You and I can disagree on politics Maggie, but I don't pretend to be something I am not, nor do you. We both have the courage of our convictions. FakeJake, by contrast, is a coward that pretends he is a conservative when he isn't. We have conservatives here on this forum, plenty of them. Around 15 conservatives voted in a poll about our duplicitous friend FakeJake, not one of them thinks FakeJake is a conservative. Not one!! I think it would be nice if he stopped lying to us.

PS- what is radical about wanting the government to balance the budget? What is radical about holding politicians accountable? What is so radical about not wanting to bankrupt the nation with more ill conceived entitlement programs?

 

[MaggieMae]

Two words:

Nuclear Option

two words:

ha ha

"ha ha" what?

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

If Republicans can use the threat of a Nuclear Option to force Democrats to go along with them, like they did a few years back, then Dems should certainly be able to fight fire with fire.

They need to grow themselves a set of balls and do what they need to do.

Not to mention the fact that Senate Republicans really only represent like 25% of the populace.

You're not thinking!! That's one of the reasons Republicans began to lose popularity. Our-way-or-the-highway attitudes lose a lot of support all around. It's also why a lot of moderate Democrats are disgruntled with Nancy Pelosi and to a lesser extent, Harry Reid.

 

[Xenophon]

Its dead, no matter how they try to save face with it and they know it.

Agreed. I think it's toast.

That said, Obama HAS to pass some kind of meaningful legislation by November. I think it's most likely that they'll adopt some version of the Republican plan at this point, all the while pretending they came up with it all by themselves.

It would be INSANE to push ahead. People hate this plan on the right *and* on the left.

Personally, I would like to see a gradual moving away from employer-based health insurance. I think it would be great for business, and it would decrease the cost of insurance due to competition. Hell, when people are paying out of their own pockets... they shop more carefully. Allowing policies to be sold over state lines and letting people set up HSA's with pretax dollars and roll them over.... could go a long way toward encouraging people to get their own.

Whatever else he decides to work on, he'll have to do it on the cheap. People aren't going to put up with any more of this crazy spending.

The entire point is, HE DOESN'T.

This scrable to pass 'something' instead of concentrating on effective and needed things is the real problem.

The Dems have trouble passing things because they contain so much gargabe they know they can't get it done honestly and cleanly.

They should try honestly and cleanly.

They should also stop trying to push 'their agenda' and address the very real problems the nation faces, first and formost a fading economy and dying industrail sector.

EVERYTHING ELSE is a waste of time.

 

[Murf76]

I think that is the most likely conclusion. If the Dems don't, then the Republicans will win many, many seats this fall, maybe taking back Congress. I did not think that was possible, but the Dem leadership, including BHO, have not show the guts of their opponents to get in there and fight. Palin may be a quitter, but most of the GOP powerhouses are not. They will fight, and the Dems had better step up if they want to continue ruling.

First things first... the Dems don't "rule". The fact that they don't seem to understand that is WHY they're in the shitter. 'We The People' are sovereign. Obama is not a King, and the Democrats in Congress are not his royal court.

Next... the WORST thing Democrats could possibly do... is to continue forward with this bill. They can deny to the cameras that their recent losses and their poor polling mean they're wrong in their pathetic policies, but if they can't be honest with themselves privately... they deserve the figurative bloodbath they'll be seeing in November.

People are TIRED of partisanship and gridlock. They're TIRED of corruption and cronyism. And the public is no longer snoozing peacefully in a sea of political apathy. We're watching. We're paying attention.

 

[MaggieMae]

It's not just me FakeJake, everyone here knows you're not a conservative. You can drop the charade.

Hate to burst your phony bubble, Zander, but all the "conservative" Republicans in my own family are not radical thinking like you and your ilk all high-fiving each other in your silly poll, posted only to draw attention to yourself. They all trend more like Jake, and they all come from back in the day when the GOP was once proud of its accomplishments in helping to improve the social status of all Americans, not just a select few. They also realized that do be successful, some things cost money--a lot of it--and surprise surprise, that translates into taxes.

What's this ? Another liberal defending FakeJake?? ...wow, what a surprise!!!

You and I can disagree on politics Maggie, but I don't pretend to be something I am not, nor do you. We both have the courage of our convictions. FakeJake, by contrast, is a coward that pretends he is a conservative when he isn't. We have conservatives here on this forum, plenty of them. Around 15 conservatives voted in a poll about our duplicitous friend FakeJake, not one of them thinks FakeJake is a conservative. Not one!! I think it would be nice if he stopped lying to us.

PS- what is radical about wanting the government to balance the budger? What is radical about holding politicians accountable? What is so radical about not wanting to bankrupt the nation with more ill conceived entitlement programs?

Your definition of a conservative are members of this board? Well that explains it.

A true conservative is a compromiser; a middle of the road person who realizes that s/he doesn't have the solution to every part of every problem. A true conservative has a set of ideals that is in truth socially liberal. They believe in fairness which must translate into equal opportunity. They believe that a central government must regulate those systems that keep the engine of this country moving so that it reaches all corners and no one segment of society goes without that which is required to survive and connect to the rest.

The conservatives who post on this board (and those all over the nation who are now suddenly aware that to keep this nation ahead of all the rest costs a lot of money, and that has caused deficit spending). But they want to just cut everything off at the knees and do a restore, like it's just as easy as rolling back your home computer to some magic date that meets with your approval). THAT is radical thinking, because THAT doesn't just happen. It takes a lot of study, analysis, and...compromise where basic ideology is concerned. See "true conservative," above.

 

[Vast LWC]

I repeat: That tactic will be political suicide. There are far too many voting Americans who have been completely brainwashed by the negative reporting since the Obama administration began. They believe what talk radio, Fox et al. reports which gets immediately transmitted over the Internet to tens of thousands of bloggers who then fill mailboxes with their version(s) and solution(s) to all our problems if only, alas, we didn't have Democrats in the majority.

The better plan would be to do nothing. Let the Republicans win enough seats to make some noise in Washington and see what they will do with this mess (particularly jobs, which conservatives believe can be grown on trees if the president would just snap his fingers, but he's being mean and won't do it). I say let them try to do better. Anyone want to take bets at this point that they can't?

"Political suicide"? Says who? Certainly threatening the "Nuclear Option" didn't work out badly for the Republicans. Nor did it work out badly for the Democrats all the other times they suggested it in the last 50 years.

Who told you the "Nuclear Option" would be political suicide?

 

[Zander]

Hate to burst your phony bubble, Zander, but all the "conservative" Republicans in my own family are not radical thinking like you and your ilk all high-fiving each other in your silly poll, posted only to draw attention to yourself. They all trend more like Jake, and they all come from back in the day when the GOP was once proud of its accomplishments in helping to improve the social status of all Americans, not just a select few. They also realized that do be successful, some things cost money--a lot of it--and surprise surprise, that translates into taxes.

What's this ? Another liberal defending FakeJake?? ...wow, what a surprise!!!

You and I can disagree on politics Maggie, but I don't pretend to be something I am not, nor do you. We both have the courage of our convictions. FakeJake, by contrast, is a coward that pretends he is a conservative when he isn't. We have conservatives here on this forum, plenty of them. Around 15 conservatives voted in a poll about our duplicitous friend FakeJake, not one of them thinks FakeJake is a conservative. Not one!! I think it would be nice if he stopped lying to us.

PS- what is radical about wanting the government to balance the budger? What is radical about holding politicians accountable? What is so radical about not wanting to bankrupt the nation with more ill conceived entitlement programs?

Your definition of a conservative are members of this board? Well that explains it.

A true conservative is a compromiser; a middle of the road person who realizes that s/he doesn't have the solution to every part of every problem. A true conservative has a set of ideals that is in truth socially liberal. They believe in fairness which must translate into equal opportunity. They believe that a central government must regulate those systems that keep the engine of this country moving so that it reaches all corners and no one segment of society goes without that which is required to survive and connect to the rest.

The conservatives who post on this board (and those all over the nation who are now suddenly aware that to keep this nation ahead of all the rest costs a lot of money, and that has caused deficit spending). But they want to just cut everything off at the knees and do a restore, like it's just as easy as rolling back your home computer to some magic date that meets with your approval). THAT is radical thinking, because THAT doesn't just happen. It takes a lot of study, analysis, and...compromise where basic ideology is concerned. See "true conservative," above.

Liberal Democrats are trying to ram a corrupt, ill-conceived healthcare bill down our throats without even ONE Republican vote and we're the ones who need to compromise? Liberals are paying off entire states, thousands of Union workers, and government employees and we're supposed to compromise? You really ought to get a job as a comedian......

 

[Vast LWC]

Liberal Democrats are trying to ram a corrupt, ill-conceived healthcare bill down our throats without even ONE Republican vote and we're the ones who need to compromise? Liberals are paying off entire states, thousands of Union workers, and government employees and we're supposed to compromise? You really ought to get a job as a comedian......

The 40 members of the Senate that are obstructing the bill from passing only represent 25% of the population.

Which means that without even ONE republican voting yes, a 60 Dem vote would still represent 75% of the population.

 

[Zander]

Liberal Democrats are trying to ram a corrupt, ill-conceived healthcare bill down our throats without even ONE Republican vote and we're the ones who need to compromise? Liberals are paying off entire states, thousands of Union workers, and government employees and we're supposed to compromise? You really ought to get a job as a comedian......

The 40 members of the Senate that are obstructing the bill from passing only represent 25% of the population.

Which means that without even ONE republican voting yes, a 60 Dem vote would still represent 75% of the population.

You can honestly say you were proud of the Senate bill?

For the record there are only 57 democrats in the Senate. Secondly, the Senate is one of two legislative bodies, so your math is way off.

 

[MaggieMae]

I repeat: That tactic will be political suicide. There are far too many voting Americans who have been completely brainwashed by the negative reporting since the Obama administration began. They believe what talk radio, Fox et al. reports which gets immediately transmitted over the Internet to tens of thousands of bloggers who then fill mailboxes with their version(s) and solution(s) to all our problems if only, alas, we didn't have Democrats in the majority.

The better plan would be to do nothing. Let the Republicans win enough seats to make some noise in Washington and see what they will do with this mess (particularly jobs, which conservatives believe can be grown on trees if the president would just snap his fingers, but he's being mean and won't do it). I say let them try to do better. Anyone want to take bets at this point that they can't?

"Political suicide"? Says who? Certainly threatening the "Nuclear Option" didn't work out badly for the Republicans. Nor did it work out badly for the Democrats all the other times they suggested it in the last 50 years.

Who told you the "Nuclear Option" would be political suicide?

Nobody had to "tell me" anything. In today's, er, 'nuclear' political climate, any such threats would lend credence to "shoving it down our throats" allegations by anti-Obama people. Also, the nuclear option would further alienate moderate Democats who, if Republicans do win seats next November, will be more inclined to push against pure liberal agendas.

I'm sick to death of this use of threats and bribes to get anything done in Washington. It only makes a bad situation worse.

 

[Annie]

Deep Jake, very deep.

Fake Jake's Douchebaggery knows no bounds. He still thinks he is fooling some people here....

What you think, Zander, is immaterial.

Zowser! Another deep post by the master. *gag*

 

[Murf76]

The entire point is, HE DOESN'T.

This scrable to pass 'something' instead of concentrating on effective and needed things is the real problem.

The Dems have trouble passing things because they contain so much gargabe they know they can't get it done honestly and cleanly.

They should try honestly and cleanly.

They should also stop trying to push 'their agenda' and address the very real problems the nation faces, first and formost a fading economy and dying industrail sector.

EVERYTHING ELSE is a waste of time.

"Honestly and cleanly" would've meant that they went for a constitutional amendment on single-payer instead of trying to trojan-horse it through the back door. These people don't DO "honest and clean". They're all about incrementalism. That's why they were willing to settle on whatever could be cobbled together. The master plan was always to tinker on it later.

Don't get me wrong though. They've got to pass something in order to survive, but I don't think they'll be able to just pass any old bill at this point. It will have to offer good solutions or they're not going to build any political capital with it.

They're in a pretty deep hole and are faced with climbing out of it under the watchful eye of the public. We've been complacent for so long, that they're no longer accustomed to us paying attention and they're more than a little shell-shocked. But even so, they've got to know that crappy legislation won't be enough to pull their bacon out of the fire. They're going to actually have to pass something good this time. And frankly, I doubt they've got it in them to do it.

Still, I don't think they'll go forward with any version of what they have. They'd have to be living on another planet to think it would fly.

 

[Vast LWC]

You can honestly say you were proud of the Senate bill?

For the record there are only 57 democrats in the Senate. Secondly, the Senate is one of two legislative bodies, so your math is way off.

No, I was proud of the House bill, I thought the Senate bill had way to much pork thrown in to try and buy votes.

And I was only talking about the Senate, the house had already passed a much stronger bill.

 

[Maple]

A fifth option is to put a stake in its heart, cover it in garlic and bury it at the crossroads at the time of the new moon

That's the best laugh I had all day. Thanks

 

[Vast LWC]

"Honestly and cleanly" would've meant that they went for a constitutional amendment on single-payer instead of trying to trojan-horse it through the back door. These people don't DO "honest and clean". They're all about incrementalism. That's why they were willing to settle on whatever could be cobbled together. The master plan was always to tinker on it later.

Don't get me wrong though. They've got to pass something in order to survive, but I don't think they'll be able to just pass any old bill at this point. It will have to offer good solutions or they're not going to build any political capital with it.

They're in a pretty deep hole and are faced with climbing out of it under the watchful eye of the public. We've been complacent for so long, that they're no longer accustomed to us paying attention and they're more than a little shell-shocked. But even so, they've got to know that crappy legislation won't be enough to pull their bacon out of the fire. They're going to actually have to pass something good this time. And frankly, I doubt they've got it in them to do it.

Still, I don't think they'll go forward with any version of what they have. They'd have to be living on another planet to think it would fly.

Oh, yes, definitely, they should have been required to get a Constitutional amendment passed for something that was already provided for in the Constitution...

OR, they could just be going for what the Constitution itself requires, a majority vote to pass a law.

 

[Annie]

So what did National Republican Senatorial Committee Chairman John Cornyn take from Scott Brown's (R) win last night?

In an interview on MSNBC's "Andrea Mitchell Reports," Cornyn told Mitchell that when it comes to health care, the message voters were sending was, "Slow down and work together, and listen to us and our concerns. Don't just try to pass something and ignore our disapproval of what you are trying to do."

Cornyn: Time to slow down on reform - First Read - msnbc.com

I hope he is kidding. I have never seen a party bend over backwards like the Democrats have over this health care plan to try and please those old fart Republicans. Especially the prez. It makes me angry at him. He needs to get it through his head that Republicans will never, ever work with him or even try to appear to be reasonable. They are just dead weight.

And Mr. Cornyn is a lying sack of you know what.

I've sent several emails to the prez and I told him he is being way to accommodating and that he needs to ignore them.

Please, link us up to the bending over backwards.

What is remembered and actionable by both what's happened and what may happen:

Obama to GOP: 'I won' - POLITICO.com Print View

Obama to GOP: 'I won'
By: Jonathan Martin and Carol E. Lee
January 23, 2009 01:25 PM EST

President Obama listened to Republican gripes about his stimulus package during a meeting with congressional leaders Friday morning - but he also left no doubt about who's in charge of these negotiations. "I won," Obama noted matter-of-factly, according to sources familiar with the conversation.

The exchange arose as top House and Senate Republicans expressed concern to the president about the amount of spending in the package. They also raised red flags about a refundable tax credit that returns money to those who don’t pay income taxes, the sources said.

The Republicans stressed that they want to include more middle class tax cuts in the package, citing their proposal to cut the two lowest tax rates — 15 percent and 10 percent — to ten percent and five percent, rather than issue the refundable credit Obama wants.
...