Defensive use of guns.

[2aguy]

Of course it has.....

It discusses Kleck's thoughts/theories, and why and how they were disputed/debunked. There is no mention of any CDC figure of 1.2 million DGUs annually that 2aguy keeps plugging. The CDC never stated such a figure. 2aguy is lying every time he posts it.

Klerk found their numbers which they buried…. Their job was to disprove Kleck and when the numbers for defensive gun use came back at 1.2, they stopped their research…..I keep posting the story and you keep denying it….as you also deny the other 17 studies on defensive gun use

The Department of Justice did their own research at the same time as the CDC and found 1.5 million…….they actually published their research…..as did the other 15 private and public read watch groups

 

[WTF19]

I went right to the source.

thanx for supplying 'the source'----do you have a REAL source, that tells the TRUTH?----NO, NO you dont

IF YOU ONLY HAD A BRAIN

 

[WTF19]

Sadly in this Century, too many people use guns to take lives.

sadly, theres retards like you that hate AMERICA---they are called SCUM demonRATS
put the barrel against your head and pull trigger...SAVE AMERICA from shit stains like YOU
IF YOU ONLY HAD A BRAIN

 

[WTF19]

More people die in automobile accidents than by shootings. Are we to ban automobiles?

the SCUM demonRATS are working on that ban

 

[Penelope]

thanx for supplying 'the source'----do you have a REAL source, that tells the TRUTH?----NO, NO you dont

IF YOU ONLY HAD A BRAIN

• In 2017, the FBI reports there were only 298 justifiable homicides involving a private citizen using a firearm. That same year, there were 10,380 criminal gun homicides. Guns were used in 35 criminal homicides for every justifiable homicide.
• Intended victims of violent crimes engaged in self-protective behavior that involved a firearm in 1.1 percent of attempted and completed incidents between 2014 and 2016.
• Intended victims of property crimes engaged in self-protective behavior that involved a firearm in 0.3 percent of attempted and completed incidents between 2014 and 2016.

When analyzing the most reliable data available, what is most striking is that in a nation of more than 300 million guns, how rarely firearms are used in self-defense.

https://vpc.org/revealing-the-impacts-of-gun-violence/self-defense-gun-use/

You think I would go to a conservative site, not on your life.

 

[Blues Man]

Alcohol is legal but somewhat very harmful -- like drugs.

And like guns

 

[M14 Shooter]

• In 2017, the FBI reports there were only 298 justifiable homicides involving a private citizen using a firearm. That same year, there were 10,380 criminal gun homicides. Guns were used in 35 criminal homicides for every justifiable homicide.

You do know you do not have to actually shoot someone to use a gun in self-defense -- right?
Right?
Thus, you then must also know the number of people killed in self defense is irrelevant -- right?
Right?

When analyzing the most reliable data available, what is most striking is that in a nation of more than 300 million guns, how rarely firearms are used in self-defense.

They are used 10x more often for self-defense than murder and 4x more often for self defense than suicide.

 

[Captain Caveman]

My support comes from the Constitution, you know that pesky little document that tells the Government what they can and can not do, like not infringing on my right to bear arms. Those statistics leave out how many people stop themselves from being a victim by having a firearm and not pulling the trigger.

Unpublished CDC Study Confirms More than 2 Million Defensive Handgun Uses Annually

An unpublished Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) study confirms Florida State University criminologist Gary Kleck’s findings of more than two million defensive handgun uses (DGUs) per year.

www.lawenforcementtoday.com

Correct, by reason and by logic, the gun culture is dreadful in America. Anyone with an IQ greater than their shoe size knows that to have to safe guns, you needs regulations that are found in Europe, UK, New Zealand and Australia. But because that's so blatant, the only defence against common sense is, "2nd Amendment", mouth froth, "Constitution".

You guys need a bit of paper to fight against logic and a safe gun culture. Simple as.

 

[Vagabond63]

Klerk found their numbers which they buried….

Prove it.

I keep posting the story and you keep denying it…

I don't deny anything, I just keep asking you to provide a direct link to the CDC in which they state your 1.2 million figure. To date you keep claiming the CDC put out this figure, to date you have failed to provide the direct link. To date therefore, you have lied when you say the CDC stated there were 1.2 million DGUs.

as you also deny the other 17 studies on defensive gun use

I don't deny anything, I merely stated that the reality is that no-one knows how many DGUs occur every year in the USA, it could be 3 million, or 1/10th that figure or 10 times that figure. Your "studies" are nothing more than glorified opinion polls, to be taken with a pinch of salt. You are so gullible you treat them as holy writ.

 

[Vagabond63]

They are used 10x more often for self-defense than murder and 4x more often for self defense than suicide.

Prove it.

 

[2aguy]

Prove it.

I don't deny anything, I just keep asking you to provide a direct link to the CDC in which they state your 1.2 million figure. To date you keep claiming the CDC put out this figure, to date you have failed to provide the direct link. To date therefore, you have lied when you say the CDC stated there were 1.2 million DGUs.

I don't deny anything, I merely stated that the reality is that no-one knows how many DGUs occur every year in the USA, it could be 3 million, or 1/10th that figure or 10 times that figure. Your "studies" are nothing more than glorified opinion polls, to be taken with a pinch of salt.

I provided the information on the data Kleck found at the CDC......where they tried to bury the 1.2 million defensive gun uses when it was going against their gun control agenda....at the same time as they were doing their research, the Department of Justice did the exact same research.....and found 1.5 million defensive gun uses...they just made the mistake of actually completing and publishing their research.......

Keep in mind, both agencies were working to disprove Gary Kleck's epic work on the subject where he found 2.5 defensive gun uses.....and they both failed.....

 

[2aguy]

Correct, by reason and by logic, the gun culture is dreadful in America. Anyone with an IQ greater than their shoe size knows that to have to safe guns, you needs regulations that are found in Europe, UK, New Zealand and Australia. But because that's so blatant, the only defence against common sense is, "2nd Amendment", mouth froth, "Constitution".

You guys need a bit of paper to fight against logic and a safe gun culture. Simple as.

Since you have failed to answer this in all the other posts.....try this one...

How do you explain the fact that Europe, in the 1920s, banned and confiscated guns on the promise that this would make their people safer.....by the 1930s, the national socialists then used the lists of the registered guns to confiscate the rest, and then went on to murder 15 million innocent men, women and children....most murdered in just 6 years between 1939-1945.....and the slaughter was only stopped when Americans....with their guns, forced the German socialists to stop murdering people......

In the United States we average around 10,000 gun murders a year, slightly more now because of the democrat party policies attacking our police, and releasing violent criminals wholesale.......

If we bump that up to a higher 20,000...and multiply that by the 246 years of the entire existence of the United States....our gun murder doesn't come close to matching the murder of those 15 million people.......and on top of that, the vast majority of gun murder victims in the U.S. are not innocent people...they are criminals, engaged in crime, and their friends, family and associates caught in the shooting.


How do you explain the 15 million murdered people?

How do you explain that this can never happen again?

 

[2aguy]

• In 2017, the FBI reports there were only 298 justifiable homicides involving a private citizen using a firearm. That same year, there were 10,380 criminal gun homicides. Guns were used in 35 criminal homicides for every justifiable homicide.
• Intended victims of violent crimes engaged in self-protective behavior that involved a firearm in 1.1 percent of attempted and completed incidents between 2014 and 2016.
• Intended victims of property crimes engaged in self-protective behavior that involved a firearm in 0.3 percent of attempted and completed incidents between 2014 and 2016.

When analyzing the most reliable data available, what is most striking is that in a nation of more than 300 million guns, how rarely firearms are used in self-defense.

https://vpc.org/revealing-the-impacts-of-gun-violence/self-defense-gun-use/

You think I would go to a conservative site, not on your life.

And the vast majority, 70-80% of the gun murder victims were criminals murdered by other criminals.......

They were not normal Americans. And of the other 20-30%, the vast majority are the friends and family of criminals murdered by mistake when their criminal friend or family member was attacked.....

Meanwhile....in Europe.....the governments of Europe under the control of the German socialists murdered 15 million innocent men, women and children, primarily in the 6 years between 1939 and 1945.......and those murders only ended when Americans, with guns, stopped it....

More murders than all of the gun murder in the United States in our entire 246 year history......and those victims, the 15 million, were not criminals engaged in the criminal lifestyle...they were innocent people...

You have to explain that....you doofus.....

Then explain how it could never happen again.....after it happened in the modern period after 1917....not at the hands of a Mongol horde....but by modern nation states....

 

[2aguy]

• In 2017, the FBI reports there were only 298 justifiable homicides involving a private citizen using a firearm. That same year, there were 10,380 criminal gun homicides. Guns were used in 35 criminal homicides for every justifiable homicide.
• Intended victims of violent crimes engaged in self-protective behavior that involved a firearm in 1.1 percent of attempted and completed incidents between 2014 and 2016.
• Intended victims of property crimes engaged in self-protective behavior that involved a firearm in 0.3 percent of attempted and completed incidents between 2014 and 2016.

When analyzing the most reliable data available, what is most striking is that in a nation of more than 300 million guns, how rarely firearms are used in self-defense.

https://vpc.org/revealing-the-impacts-of-gun-violence/self-defense-gun-use/

You think I would go to a conservative site, not on your life.

The Violence Policey Center?

 

[Vagabond63]

I provided the information on the data Kleck found at the CDC..

So you finally admit, the CDC never stated your 1.2 million figure, it was Kleck all along, who made that assertion, not the CDC

where they tried to bury the 1.2 million defensive gun uses

Prove they tried to bury anything. They found the data they had accumulated was incomplete and inconclusive and flawed, so they filed it away on their website. Kleck made a big broo ha ha about needing a FOI to find it, when in fact he could have Googled it without any fuss or bother, still any publicity stunt to sell your book helps, I suppose.

 

[2aguy]

• In 2017, the FBI reports there were only 298 justifiable homicides involving a private citizen using a firearm. That same year, there were 10,380 criminal gun homicides. Guns were used in 35 criminal homicides for every justifiable homicide.
• Intended victims of violent crimes engaged in self-protective behavior that involved a firearm in 1.1 percent of attempted and completed incidents between 2014 and 2016.
• Intended victims of property crimes engaged in self-protective behavior that involved a firearm in 0.3 percent of attempted and completed incidents between 2014 and 2016.

When analyzing the most reliable data available, what is most striking is that in a nation of more than 300 million guns, how rarely firearms are used in self-defense.

https://vpc.org/revealing-the-impacts-of-gun-violence/self-defense-gun-use/

You think I would go to a conservative site, not on your life.

The good research over at the Violence Policy Center...

Violence Policy Center

Donohue and Education Fund Briefs do present anecdotes involving carry permit holders who have killed after becoming angry over insignificant issues ranging from cutting someone off on a highway to texting in a movie theater to playing loud music at a gas station. Another amicus brief, by the Violence Policy Center (VPC), presents more anecdotes. The VPC also cites statistics from its database Concealed Carry Killers.

We haven't fact-checked the VPC database. But Clayton Cramer (coauthor of several law review articles with Kopel) did. Clayton E. Cramer, Violence Policy Center's Concealed Carry Killers: Less Than It Appears (2012).

Cramer found numerous instances of VPC incorrectly claiming that a perpetrator had a concealed carry permit, or VPC counting events that had nothing to do with the carry permit, such as a permit-holder committing suicide at home.

Or consider this example from the VPC brief:

In May 2014, Michael Bowman, who also possessed a valid concealed carry handgun permit, shot and killed police officer Kevin Jordan in Griffon, Georgia. Officer Jordan was working an off-duty security job in uniform at a Waffle House restaurant. Bowman was drunk when he and his girlfriend Officer Jordan attempted to arrest Bowman's girlfriend. Officer Jordan—a father of seven—was on the ground attempting to restrain Bowman's girlfriend when Bowman shot him multiple times in the back. Bowman was convicted of felony murder and sentenced to life in prison without parole.42

Footnote 42 cites to the VPC's database. The database in turn cites: Former soldier gets life without parole for murdering police officer, Atlanta Journal-Constitution, Feb. 17, 2017 (article does not mention a permit); Griffin Tragedy; Drunk and armed at 2 a.m., Atlanta Journal-Constitution, June 8, 2014 (we couldn't find this article in the newspaper's archive, or in Westlaw News, although both databases contain many articles on the crime); Funeral next Monday for slain Griffin police officer, Atlanta Journal-Constitution, June 2, 2014 (found at 2014 WLNR 14878704). This last article explains who had the concealed carry permit: officer Kevin Jordan's brother, Raymond Jordan.

Raymond Jordan was in the parking lot when the gunfire erupted and grabbed his own gun, [police officer Mike] Richardson said. A civilian, he had a permit to carry a gun and was at the restaurant to visit his brother, who often worked there on weekends, police said. Raymond Jordan was not charged Saturday in Bowman's shooting, and police offered no explanation.

So in this case, the man with the concealed carry permit was not the criminal; the man with the carry permit was the person who shot the criminal who was attacking the officer.

There definitely are cases of persons with concealed carry permits perpetrating crimes in public places, including homicide. However, the VPC database is not necessarily a reliable guide. The better approach is to look at comprehensive datasets, such a statewide revocation figures, described above.

R



Social science on the right to bear arms

=========

Debunking the Myth of "Concealed-Carry Killers"

Beyond the immediately suspect nature of the Violence Policy Center’s claims, the database erroneously includes many deaths that are not attributable to the misuse of a concealed-carry permit.
The anti-gun group defines “non-self-defense incident” to include virtually any fatality involving a concealed-carry permit holder, including ones that do not remotely resemble the type of intentional homicide evoked by the Violence Policy Center’s strong claims about public safety.
For example, roughly 40% of the deaths (534 of 1,335) are suicides. While tragic, firearm suicides are not what a term like “concealed-carry killer” brings to mind.
Moreover, analysis of the remaining “non-self-defense” deaths also belies the group’s use of the term.
The Violence Policy Center includes many fatalities where the shooter’s concealed-carry permit was irrelevant because he or she did not carry a concealed weapon in public while perpetrating the crime.
For example, the database includes a Nov. 11, 2008, death where a permit holder fatally shot her husband in their own backyard, and a June 12, 2012, death where the permit holder fatally shot his wife while she slept in their own bedroom.
Had their respective states never issued a concealed-carry permit to a single person, these shooters still would have been in lawful possession of these firearms inside their own homes.
Also of dubious inclusion are at least 10 cases that involve someone other than the permit holder using the permit holder’s firearm, and a number of cases where the individual’s permit either should have been suspended or was actually suspended under state law at the time of the death.
Finally, despite the Violence Policy Center’s claim that it only analyzed non-self-defense shootings, in 72 of the 801 homicide deaths included in the database, the shooter’s claim of self-defense is still pending in court.
---

The Data Paints a Different Picture
As a result of the report, the Violence Policy Center’s legislative director stated that “concealed-carry killers continue to claim innocent lives at a shocking pace.”
The only shocking thing about the pace of crimes committed by concealed-carry permit holders is just how slow it is compared with the statistical expectation.
According to the data, America’s 18 million concealed-carry permit holders accounted for 801 firearm-related homicides over a 15-year span, which amounts to roughly 0.7% of all firearm-related homicides during that time.
That percentage drops even lower if any of the defendants in the 72 cases still pending in court are determined to have acted in lawful self-defense.
Since 2007, when the Violence Policy Center started tracking these concealed-carry permit holder deaths, there has been a 304% increase in the number of Americans with a concealed-carry permit.
At the same time, the national violent crime and homicide rates in 2018 were actually lower than they were in 2007, and substantially lower than their historical highs in the early 1990s, when far fewer Americans had concealed-carry permits.
---
Similarly, despite the anti-gun group’s claim that concealed-carry permit holders represent a severe danger to law enforcement officers, the data indicates that they are accountable for a disproportionately small number of law enforcement deaths.
The FBI recorded 608 law enforcement officers who were killed in “felonious acts” between 2007 and 2018. According to the Violence Policy Center, 18 concealed-carry permit holders killed 23 law enforcement officers during that time.
That accounts for roughly 3.7% of law enforcement officer felonious deaths, even though concealed-carry permit holders account for 5.5% of the population.
Just as with non-law enforcement deaths, many of the cases the Violence Policy Center includes as law enforcement officer deaths involve scenarios where the killer’s status as a permit holder played no role in the crime.
In fact, by our count, only 10 of the 24 law enforcement officer deaths between 2007 and the time of publication involved permit holders actually carrying concealable firearms in public places.
For example, the database includes the case of Ryan Schlesinger, who in November 2018 used a rifle from inside his own home to kill an officer in Tucson, Arizona, serving him with an arrest warrant.
The concealed-carry permit was not only completely irrelevant in that situation—one does not need a concealed-carry permit to lawfully possess a rifle inside one’s home, nor is a rifle a “concealed carry” weapon—but Schlesinger was prohibited under state law from possessing firearms.

 

[Vagabond63]

And the vast majority, 70-80% of the gun murder victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...

So in that case most "normal, law abiding" Americans don't need guns for self defence. You've destroyed your argument again.

 

[2aguy]

So you finally admit, the CDC never stated your 1.2 million figure, it was Kleck all along, who made that assertion, not the CDC

Prove they tried to bury anything. They found the data they had accumulated was incomplete and inconclusive and flawed, so they filed it away on their website. Kleck made a big broo ha ha about needing a FOI to find it, when in fact he could have Googled it without any fuss or bother, still any publicity stunt to sell your book helps, I suppose.

Nope.....they did the collection of the data, then stopped and buried it....as you know.

No.....they found the data was not showing what they wanted to show, so they stopped the research and buried the data they already had....

Their job was to refute Kleck....the Clinton administration was pushing gun control and sent the CDC and the DOJ to attack Kleck...they both failed.......

Everytihing on the CDC and the way it buried data that didn't support what they wanted to push.....

Forbes, why did the CDC hide the data?

3) We don’t know why the CDC chose not to publish that data from the 1990s.

Kleck offers some ideas in his original paper. One possible explanation:

Another factor, however, might also have played a role in the decision of CDC personnel to not report the DGU findings. For CDC’s own surveys to generate high estimates of DGU prevalence was clearly not helpful to efforts to enact stricter controls over firearms, since it implies that some such measures might disarm people who otherwise would have been able to use a gun for self-protection.

One CDC official in the 1990s openly told the Washington Post that his goal was to create a public perception of gun ownership as something “dirty, deadly — and banned.” Given that history, I can’t dismiss Kleck’s critique.

That Time The CDC Asked About Defensive Gun Uses



The Washington post column mentioned above...



"We need to revolutionize the way we look at guns, like what we did with cigarettes. It used to be that smoking was a glamour symbol -- cool, sexy, macho. Now it is dirty, deadly -- and banned." Rosenberg's thought is that if we could transform public attitudes toward guns the way we have transformed public attitudes toward cigarettes, we'd go a long way toward curbing our national epidemic of violence.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/arch...th-guns/6c7f2bd2-fa57-4d69-b927-5ceb4fa43cf4/

============





Revised paper

SSRN Electronic Library

Abstract​

In 1996, 1997, and 1998, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) conducted large-scale surveys asking about defensive gun use (DGU) in four to seven states. Analysis of the raw data allows the estimation of the prevalence of DGU for those areas. Data pertaining to the same sets of states from the 1993 National Self-Defense Survey (Kleck and Gertz 1995) allow these results to be extrapolated to the U.S. as a whole. CDC’s survey data confirm previous high estimates of DGU prevalence, disconfirm estimates derived from the National Crime Victimization Survey, and indicate that defensive uses of guns by crime victims are far more common than offensive uses by criminals. CDC has never reported these results.

=========



Reason article on the revised paper..



in direct response to queries from Reason, who first directly notified Kleck of his error, he worked through and has since issued a revised version of the paper, published as was the original as a working paper on the Social Science Research Network. In the new version, Kleck re-analyzes the BRFSS survey data accurately as limited to a small number of states, and ultimately concludes, when their surveys are analyzed in conjunction with his NSDS, that their surveys indicate likely over 1 million defensive uses of guns (DGUs) a year nationally, compared to the over 2 million of his own NSDS.

Here's how Kleck got to that new conclusion. The BRFSS, as Kleck describes it in his paper, "are high-quality telephone surveys of very large probability samples of U.S. adults…even just the subset of four to seven state surveys that asked about DGU in 1996-1998 interviewed 3,197-4,500 adults, depending on the year. This is more people than were asked about this topic in any other surveys, other than the National Self-Defense Survey conducted in 1993 by Kleck and Gertz (1995), who asked DGU questions of 4,977 people." The BRFSS asked about defensive uses of guns in seven states in 1996, seven in 1997, and four in 1998.

Kleck judged the "wording of the DGU question in the BRFSS surveys" as "also excellent, avoiding many problems with the wording that afflicted the DGU questions used in other surveys."

The BRFSS results were designed to exclude "uses by military, police and others with firearm-related jobs" and "uses against animals." The survey was designed to garner "yes" answers as long as a gun was used in presumed self-defense in any location (not just the home), whether or not the gun was actually fired (as, per Kleck's survey, around 3/4 of the time one needn't fire the gun to have found it useful in deterring an intruder or attacker).



A Second Look at a Controversial Study About Defensive Gun Use



-------



Original version before he went back to revise it...

The actual paper by Kleck revealing the CDC hiding data..



SSRN Electronic Library

The timing of CDC’s addition of a DGU question to the BRFSS is of some interest. Prior to 1996, the BRFSS had never included a question about DGU. Kleck and Gertz (1995) conducted their survey in February through April 1993, presented their estimate that there were over 2 million DGUs in 1992 at the annual meetings of the American Society of Criminology in November 1994, and published it in the Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology in the Fall of 1995. CDC added a DGU question to the BRFSS the very first year they could do so after that 1995 publication, in the 1996 edition. CDC was not the only federal agency during the Clinton administration to field a survey addressing the prevalence of DGU at that particular time. The National Institute of Justice (NIJ) financed a national survey devoting even more detailed attention to estimating DGU prevalence, which was fielded in November and December 1994, just months after preliminary results of the 1993 Kleck/Gertz survey became known. Neither CDC nor NIJ had ever financed research into DGU before 1996. Perhaps there was just “something in the air” that motivated the two agencies to suddenly decide in 1994 to address the topic. Another interpretation, however, is that fielding of the surveys was triggered by the Kleck/Gertz findings that DGU was common, and that these agencies hoped to obtain lower DGU prevalence estimates than those obtained by Kleck/Gertz. Low estimates would have implied fewer beneficial uses of firearms, results that would have been far more congenial to the strongly pro-control positions of the Clinton administration.


CDC, in Surveys It Never Bothered Making Public, Provides More Evidence That Plenty of Americans Innocently Defend Themselves with Guns



Kleck's new paper—"What Do CDC's Surveys Say About the Frequency of Defensive Gun Uses?"—finds that the agency had asked about DGUs in its Behavioral Risk Factor Surveillance System in 1996, 1997, and 1998.

Those polls, Kleck writes,

are high-quality telephone surveys of enormous probability samples of U.S. adults, asking about a wide range of health-related topics. Those that addressed DGU asked more people about this topic than any other surveys conducted before or since. For example, the 1996 survey asked the DGU question of 5,484 people. The next-largest number questioned about DGU was 4,977 by Kleck and Gertz (1995), and sample sizes were much smaller in all the rest of surveys on the topic (Kleck 2001).

Kleck was impressed with how well the survey worded its question: "During the last 12 months, have you confronted another person with a firearm, even if you did not fire it, to protect yourself, your property, or someone else?" Respondents were told to leave out incidents from occupations, like policing, where using firearms is part of the job. Kleck is impressed with how the question excludes animals but includes DGUs outside the home as well as within it.

Kleck is less impressed with the fact that the question was only asked of people who admitted to owning guns in their home earlier in the survey, and that they asked no follow-up questions regarding the specific nature of the DGU incident.

From Kleck's own surveys, he found that only 79 percent of those who reported a DGU "had also reported a gun in their household at the time of the interview," so he thinks whatever numbers the CDC found need to be revised upward to account for that. (Kleck speculates that CDC showed a sudden interest in the question of DGUs starting in 1996 because Kleck's own famous/notorious survey had been published in 1995.)

At any rate, Kleck downloaded the datasets for those three years and found that the "weighted percent who reported a DGU...was 1.3% in 1996, 0.9% in 1997, 1.0% in 1998, and 1.07% in all three surveys combined."





Kleck figures if you do the adjustment upward he thinks necessary for those who had DGU incidents without personally owning a gun in the home at the time of the survey, and then the adjustment downward he thinks necessary because CDC didn't do detailed follow-ups to confirm the nature of the incident, you get 1.24 percent, a close match to his own 1.326 percent figure.

He concludes that the small difference between his estimate and the CDC's "can be attributed to declining rates of violent crime, which accounts for most DGUs. With fewer occasions for self-defense in the form of violent victimizations, one would expect fewer DGUs."

Kleck further details how much these CDC surveys confirmed his own controversial work:

The final adjusted prevalence of 1.24% therefore implies that in an average year during 1996–1998, 2.46 million U.S. adults used a gun for self-defense.

This estimate, based on an enormous sample of 12,870 cases (unweighted) in a nationally representative sample, strongly confirms the 2.5 million past-12-months estimate obtained Kleck and Gertz (1995)....CDC's results, then, imply that guns were used defensively by victims about 3.6 times as often as they were used offensively by criminals.

And the collection of 18 studies that also researched defensive gun use....over and above the CDC research....



A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)


2021 national firearm survey, Prof. William English, PhD. designed by Deborah Azrael of Harvard T. Chan School of public policy, and Mathew Miller, Northeastern university.......1.67 million defensive uses annually.

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

2021 national firearms survey..

The survey was designed by Deborah Azrael of the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, and Matthew Miller of Northeastern University,
----
The survey further finds that approximately a third of gun owners (31.1%) have used a firearm to defend themselves or their property, often on more than one occasion, and it estimates that guns are used defensively by firearms owners in approximately 1.67 million incidents per year. Handguns are the most common firearm employed for self-defense (used in 65.9% of defensive incidents), and in most defensive incidents (81.9%) no shot was fired. Approximately a quarter (25.2%) of defensive incidents occurred within the gun owner's home, and approximately half (53.9%) occurred outside their home, but on their property. About one out of ten (9.1%) defensive gun uses occurred in public, and about one out of twenty (4.8%) occurred at work.
2021 National Firearms Survey

 

[M14 Shooter]

Nope.....they did the collection of the data, then stopped and buried it....as you know.

You have proven you statement to your satisfaction. All you need to do.

 

[2aguy]

So in that case most "normal, law abiding" Americans don't need guns for self defence. You've destroyed your argument again.

Where do you get that....? Are you really this stupid?

When a woman is attacked by a stronger, more aggressive male, armed or unarmed, a gun is the only weapon that gives her the best chance of defeating him....

Americans use their guns 1.2 million times a year to stop rapes, robberies, murders, mass public shootings, stabbings and beatings.......according to the CDC....or 1.5 million times according to the Department of Justice...

What do you think would happen to those victims if they didn't have their gun with them?

Are you really this dumb? Do you try to be that stupid? Or does it come naturally for you?